Comments

If the vile rancor present in some of those comments is what we are talking about, then the sooner the "Reformation" is over the better.

No, the Reformation is not over for some and the Civil War is not over for others. Life goes on. Still the rancor and vile comments written by some on the blog comment line cannot be from God. It is much like on some Catholic blog sites. I guess "vile rancor" is not Catholic or Protestant specific. Still I wish it would disappear. I guess it's because half my family was Protestant and the other side Catholic. I still take it personally.

Oh, indeed - I certainly didn't mean to imply this is a disease only we Protestants suffer from. Nor that substantive and important disagreements don't exist.

Is this the group that you nad Dr. Dereckson belong to?

It is an unfortunate choice to return to darkness after having experienced at least some Light. With so much theology, tradition and practice that runs contrary to scripture, this is a critical step backwards. I do not condemn, only comment in light of Truth. I detest denominations and the evils they have wrought in and against the Church of Jesus Christ. I am so very glad that when all is over and the dust is settled that there will be only blood washed believers and servants of Jesus Christ eternally in His presence. There will be some who HERE were Catholics, some Episcopalians, some Baptists, some Presbyterians and on and on and on but there will be none of the denominational presence THERE. Thank God!

It's striking how, in the name of 'sola scriptura', so many of Our Lord's clear statements are ignored:

"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. " Matthew 16:18.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." John 6:53.

"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." John 3:5.

etcetera

I like to think of these scriptures too, Mark, and remember that sola scriptura means that the bible is the sole infallible rule of faith, not that we take every verse in isolation. We do take those clear verses very seriously, but in their contexts. It would be foolish indeed, to take a scripture out of its immediate context and the context of the whole bible, and make a doctrine out of it. Scripture interprets scripture.

It appears that you think we should take the above scriptures very literally, and yet you don't hold to their literal reading yourself, I assume, as a Roman Catholic.

The statement of Jesus in Matthew 16:23 is just as clear, 'But He turned and said to Peter: "Get behind Me, Satan!.."' Both are equally valid in their contexts, and in the context of the rest of the scriptures.

John 6:53 and 3:5, can a non-Christian enter heaven then, one who hasn't eaten the Eucharist or been baptized? The Catechism of the Catholic Church seems to say yes very strongly, to those who haven't been born of water and the Spirit.

Yes, it takes work to understand the bible, and interpret it correctly, otherwise Jesus wouldn't have made the statement to the Jews that they neither understood the scriptures nor the power of God. But it takes much more work to understand all of the Ecumenical councils, statements by popes, documents of Trent, Vatican I and II, Catechism of the Catholic Church, etc, and come away with a clear picture of what is required for you to be right with God.
Peace.

this is so weird i don't get it at all

I think Cardinal Newman put it best, "to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant". From reading Dr. Beckwith's personal testimony he simply found out what it means to be a historical Christian. To Joseph J. Gaziano I would suggest you read historical Christian works by Justin Martyr, the Didache, St. Agustine, St., ect... They all espouse back as far as 70-100 AD the teachings of the Catholic Church. Where is Sola Scriptura before the Reformation? I say this not to criticise but to challenge all Christians to look at what they believe and why.

Being Reformed is a position that historically is addressing the issue of Justification. It is not loaded with the cultural and political baggage the word "evangelical" has become assoicaed today. Perhaps reminding the readers that "Against Heresies" was written early in Church history by Augustine. Now the question is whether or not we agree with the Roman Catholic Church that we in some fashion contribute to our Salvation Catholic or not, Methodist, Pentecostal, Nazarene, etc. The Reformation was bloody, and it broke from tradition and history because those Medieval dissedents were convinced that they did not agree with The Great Tradition.

Correction: Augustine wrote "Against Pelagius" in 415AD. For some reason I subconsciously equated "Heresies" with "Pelagius". But in know way was I implying that semi-Pelagians of any Evangelical stripe are heretics. In my humble opinion, however, they are not Reformed in the strictest sense of the definition.

And so it goes--- more and more turning to the Catholic Faith. Along with Mr. Bechwith and including a prominent Episcopal Bishop-- Herzog of New York recently, so many more are fulfilling John 19 ---

"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one,
I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me."

I too, once a Baptist converted to Catholicism after researching the history and doctrines of the church searching 'Truth'. I certainly was a Christian in the Baptist Church--- but now am in the 'fullness' of the church.

Thanks be to God,
Marie

The latest growing interest among Evangelicals to study and appreciate the writings of the Greek and Latin Church Fathers has contributed to this increase of Evangelicals and others joining the Roman Catholic Church, Greek Orthodox Church and other Christian Orthodox denominations. As an 'outsider' I observe that the "fundamental" doctrines of the Evangelical denominations are basically Roman Catholic, for example the doctrine of the Trinity. Some may argue it is a "Biblical" doctrine, but how it has been presented is very Catholic and dogmatic, following the Systematic and Dogmatic theology of the Catholic tradition.The New Testament canon was also a contribution of the Church Fathers and the Church Councils. Tradition plays an important part in Evangelical theology. It is time to recognize it.

>And so it goes--- more and more turning to the Catholic Faith. >along with Mr. Bechwith and including a prominent Episcopal >Bishop-- Herzog of New York recently, so many more are fulfilling >John 19 ---

Yes, and so it goes, "more and more" turning away from a Biblical faith - from the Biblical truth concerning the Person and work of Jesus Christ - to works oriented religions. A personal rejection of God's pure, unadulterated grace for a system of human merit. The man himself testified that he wanted his "sanctification" to count for something. I guess God's grace simply was not enough for him. How tragic indeed.

>I too, once a Baptist converted to Catholicism after researching >the history and doctrines of the church searching 'Truth'. I >certainly was a Christian in the Baptist Church--- but now am in >the 'fullness' of the church.

It's too bad you never understood what the "fullness" of being a new creature in Christ is (2 Cor. 5:17-21). One need not look to Rome for this (it's not there), but only to the Scriptures which reveal who Christ is and all who the true believer is now, "in Him."

This "falling away" from THE faith is certainly a sign of the times.

Sincerely,
Ben

Some of those comments which equate the Roman Catholic Church to the darkness and the conversion to it as fallen from faith is just loaded with so many self-righteous and juddmental attitude, which is no wonder why Evangelicals are getting such a low rating in Barna Group's research

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=280

Of course it takes much work to read everything in the Church Fathers, the popes' encyclicals, the Councils' texts, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, etc. I suppose you want to put the emphasis on what the Church teaches on the topics dearest to your heart and the ones that bug you most. The CCC would be a good place to start, I guess! It takes much work, but in the end, it,s worthwhile, isn't it?
God bless you!

Of course it takes much work to read everything in the Church Fathers, the popes' encyclicals, the Councils' texts, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, etc. I suppose you want to put the emphasis on what the Church teaches on the topics dearest to your heart and the ones that bug you most. The CCC would be a good place to start, I guess! It takes much work, but in the end, it,s worthwhile, isn't it?
God bless you!

The road to Rome is a blind path and a waste of time. However, I am not suprised that people start to look around for other Christian alternatives. American Evangelical Christianity is getting sillier and sillier as time goes on. Spend a couple of hours watching the TV preachers. Go to a typical Evangelical church today with its entertainment orientation and its manipulative methods and then attend a Romanist mass. Which is the more dignified and reverent form of woship? Of course, Rome's theology mostly stinks, but Sunday morning in the magachurches is a parade of pop-culture kitsch which makes anyone with an IQ above 85 squirm.