Maybe this is the wrong idea (and clearly not what you were asking about) but I would take the magazines. Each 'Witness' has to purchase them (if they still follow the same routine as in the past when I was more interested in them) so the more we get off the street, the better.

I have not been visited lately. I imagine they do get direction as to how to start 'spiritual' (and unrequested) conversations. Just like Campus Crusade tells their 'student leaders' how to talk to random people. Or that little girl in 'Jesus Camp'. That was really sad.

The Watchtower cult is a PEDOPHILE PARADISE primarily due to the sexual abuse cover-ups and 'sweeping under the rug' of abuse cases.Moreover the Watchtower leadership will punish member whistle-blowers who go to the police.

Jehovah's Witnesses Watchtower are an orwellian world and a doomsday destructive cult with a supremacist doctrine to hate all dissidents.

Jehovah's Witnesses are an oppressive fraud for God cult.

The Watchtower is a total ripoff,their core doctrine is that Jesus ALREADY had his second coming in 1914 and made them da boss.

This thread is Loaded with classic skirt the issues,mealy-mouth JW CIRCULAR REASONINGS
Two or more wrongs don't make a right just because false Christians abound does not make Jehovah's Witnesses the truth.

I was born a 3rd generation JW in 1957 I know what's going on people.The Watchtower NEVER thought they would have to defend their positions in 2007 it was suppose to be all over a long time ago.

Like hundreds of media reports published over the past several decades, the KNOCKING film highlighted the many SCOTUS court cases won by Jehovah's Witnesses. However, there have been hundreds of lower court cases which the WatchTower Society would prefer not be brought to the attention of the general public.

Nice, Ted. I always want to let them in, but my wife is never in the mood.

I own a Catholic bookstore in a small town, and a couple of months ago a young lady from JW came in with a stack of magazines and asked me if I woul put them out for people to pick up. I was so startled by her request (I do have a HUGE sign in front of the store with the word Catholic on it, and she was surrounded by rosaries, crucifixes, and statues), all I could do was politely refuse and return to my customer. However, if this happens again, I will take as many as she will give me and promptly throw them out. (I used to pick these up in hospital waiting rooms and toss.)

I'm surprised at the antagonistic tone toward JW's in a lot of these responses (though it sounds like Danny Haszard has earned his right to be angry). Why are people saying "take the magazines so there are less that they have ot give out?" I have no personal interest in the Jehovah's witness religion and don't normally engage in their conversation when they knock at my door, but I certainly don't see the individuals or the churches as a threat. It's not as if they are making huge conversions and altering the American religious landscape, and I don't see them trying to gain political power and influence in the way that many conservative Christian organizations are. Can we just live and let live?

Thank you for your comments about the JW abuse scandal. I was one of the victims that reported a molester in the JW congregation I served as an elder. After being ostracized from my family by church officials they kicked me out for not being silent. Church officials stated the JW policy on abuse was far superior than any religion. We started gathering cases and now after 7,000 victims have come forward they continue to deny there is anything wrong. The settlements were a vindication for JW abuse survivors. We encourage anyone to ask JWs to explain why they continue to allow children to be hurt. Please do not give them donations as they use them to defend their molesters. sl

The WTS teaches that they must hate some people. And what is the criterion?
"Falling away" from the organization? No.
Failing to heed the direction of the WTS while remaining an active, believing JW? No.
Performing horrific acts (murder, rape, child sexual abuse)? No.
All those things are not grounds to "hate" someone. What is? No longer believing that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is God's sole channel of communication to the planet. Yes, it is only when you stop supporting the authority of this religious hierarchy that they instruct others to "hate" you.

*** watchtower 1952 11/15 p. 703 Questions from Readers ***

We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization... Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship.

Note about Ted Olson's commnent on 5/24. He said the woman's "lead-in question was:
"Do you think that the scandals in the various churches have affected their ability to minister effectively?"
This is a lie. Jehovah's Witnesses NEVER ask a question about any other religion or religious practices or problem in any religion. The question they ask always has to do with a problem that efforts all mankind, war, sickness, poverty, homelessness, divorce, death, etc. They ask the person they are calling on what they think may be the solution to the particular problem they raised. The answer always is what the Bible says God's kingdom is going to do to eliminate the problem globally forever. Daniel 2:44; Matthew 6:10, Revelation 21:1-4

Whoa whoa whoa, Diane. I had two JWs come to my door probably two agos, and this is *exactly* the lead-in they used!

Quite frankly, I think any organization such as the JWs, which is highly secretive, cult like, and whose leaders exercise a high degree of personal control over its members (as differentiated from religious doctrine) are going to have a high number of abuse cases.

Where a leader has unquestioned obedience from his members, the darker sides of human naturer tend to be brought to the surface.

Diane is wrong.

I spoke to a JW within the last year. He was on my porch for about 20 minutes with two young boys. I don't remember if he led with the priest abuse scandal, but he sure brought it up at one point in the conversation.

If you would like to understand the underlying factor that controls how Jehovah's Witnesses think without them realizing it, go to www.CaptivesOfaConcept.com

There is currently a campaign in the JW's attacking churches, especially the Catholic Church, for scandals. They are being trained to do just what these two did. Make sure you tell them about the log in their own eye when they come to the door. They won't read what you give them, but they can listen if you tell them. Plant a seed of truth in their minds.

You are all a bunch of quacks! If you don't like the two witnesses rule for disfellowshipping a child molester, throw out your Bible - if you indeed have one. Think about how many cases there would be of a person making up some abuse case and tarnishing an otherwise honest person's conscience forever. You just hate to admit that JWs know more about the Bible and actually do something about what they are taught - and it kills you. So get off your little soap boxes and start getting some doors slammed in your face.

It's a shame the Watchtower organization is in such denial about what is happening right under their own noses. The fact that they try to cover up the number of sexual abuse cases is a good indication that the fox is guarding the hen house. I challenge a reporter to nail them down on how many cases of sexual abuse have been reported to them in just the last year. I can guarantee you--they wouldn't give you a straight answer, even though they keep detailed records of these crimes.

Ask yourself, how many of these "nice" and "Christian" Jehovah's Witnesses are coming to your door--perhaps sizing up your child when you let the in?

And for LetTruthRing who commented that the Jehovah's Witnesses are following the Bible in using two witnesses, I ask him and all other Jehovah's Witnesses, if having two witnesses during allegations of wrongdoing is so important, then why have so many been brought up before a Judicial Committee (who sits in judgment and acts like Jehovah God), only to have their requests denied when they have asked to see and/or know the identity of their accusers? The door should swing both ways, but unfortunately in the Watchtower organization, it doesn't.

Brenda Lee, "Out of the Cocoon: A Young Woman's Courageous Flight from the Grip of a Religious Cult" www.outofthecocoon.net

Boy what a bunch we have in here.

I happened to see the film "knocking" and discussed this with some JW's I know. I thought it was interesting, not earth shattering, but put some of their beliefs in context. Looked like a tough life to lead. In asking them about their beliefs, every question I asked was answered by referring to a bible scripture. I've never seen anyone who could do that before. Sure didn't seem like programmed zombies to me.

Also, in the film it noted they kick out 30,000 people a year for not maintaining christian standards. That actually impressed me. At least they have standards. Who else does this? I suspect some of the people here were kicked out for not maintaining standards. If you were, please identify yourself as that will help me put your comments in context.

They also encouraged me to read Matthew 7 and think about how it applies to Christians today. I find it interesting that Jesus said not everyone saying they were serving him, was in fact serving him. I'd never heard that before.

So if I compare witnesses to the people here, I can say one thing for sure - they at least know how to use the bible.

Yes there is a huge scandal in the Kingdom Halls around the world to molest children and get away with it. Mwaahaaahhaahahhha. You geniuses have figured out the ultimate plan. In fact it is in the doctrine "Thou shalt molest as often as possible!" There is new book just for elders coming out that teaches them how to molest and get away with it. The more they molest the higher in the organization they go. And thanks to the great minds on this site it is all out in the open! Wait! Got to go. The aliens are back to take me home!

Goodbye my friends.

I used to think along the same lines as Brock. But having an active JW neighbor as well as joining an ex-JW discussion board has given me a fuller perspective than the PR you get from the doorknockers. And "Can't we live and let live" is NOT a song of the Witnesses--they openly deride ALL churches as false and satanic.

Four years of investigating shows that the WT Society relies on a carefully preened image, whilst their closets are bursting with unholy skeletons. The Watchtower Cult has enough scandal in it to supply soap operas for years. So if you are ever bored surfing the net, I invite you to Google "Jehovahs Witnesses", and then hang on to your hat. They're just behind Scientology when it comes to unbelievable. The cover-ups are incredible, and seemingly endless. And enforced shunning ensures that no JW can communicate with 'apostates' who stumbled onto the truth about the "Truth"...

For the curious, here's a great collection of quotes from their own writings, by subject. Ironically, the WTS gave out this information free for years in their magazines, but sued the original site owner for organizing it on the internet. (Now it's hosted abroad.) So much of it is "old light"...

http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/

Most of the Jehovah's Witnesses members who are 'kicked out' aka 'disfellowshipped' are booted for APOSTASY (going aganist the watchtower cult teachings)

Watchtower propaganda say's they were outed for 'immorality' this is bogus.

JW are given suggested opening lines from a "Reasoning Book" and through demonstrations at weekly meetings; but may use what ever opening lines that they think will be of interest to the audience or will lead into the magazine offered being placed. One guy name Danny used to flash the householder and ask "Do you think I am sexy?" Reports are he is still not taking his medication.

Beverly said:

Most of the Jehovah's Witnesses members who are 'kicked out' aka 'disfellowshipped' are booted for APOSTASY (going aganist the watchtower cult teachings)

If I had allowed it, the local elders would have disfellowshipped me for APOSTASY because I wanted to worship Jesus just like His disciples did and in JW Land that is a big NO NO.
Also, I was telling other JW's in the area that the Watchtower Society had carried on a 9 year affiliation with the United Nations. That in itself doesn't sound like something to be brought before a 3 man Judicial Committee until... you research Watchtower literature and read that the United nations is considered by the Watchtower Society to be the 'wild beast' of Revelation and only demon-inspired groups have anything to do with the UN.

When the JW's come to your door just ask them the following:

Has anyone become a Jehovah’s Witness after reading the bible alone without the aid of Watchtower material?

If Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1914, like the Watchtower teaches, why was the Watchtower teaching in 1929 that Jesus’ invisible presence began in 1874? How did they finally figure out that that teaching was false? Reference: Prophecy, 1929, p. 65.

Since the Watchtower claims to be God’s prophet (The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, p. 197) and have falsely predicted Armageddon to occur in 1914, 1918, 1925 and 1975, do you think they meet the criteria of Deuteronomy 18:20-22?

Can you show me in the bible where it says to give false prophets a second or third chance to get it right?

If the Watchtower really is Jehovah’s prophet, like they claim, can you show me anything they predicted that came to pass?

The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, page 197
However, Jehovah did not let the people of Christendom, as led by the clergy, go without being warned that the League of Nations [the forerunner to the United Nations] was a counterfeit substitute for the real kingdom of God. He had a “prophet” to warn them. This “prophet” was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. They are still proclaiming a warning, and have been joined and assisted in their commissioned work by hundreds of thousands of persons who have listened to their message with belief.

If a member of the watchower organization speaks out against any core doctrine, it is very likely that member will be disfellowshipped and no member of the organization will be allowed to speak to him (shunning). The question now has to be asked....."What does an organizaion, such as the watchtower, have to hide that it will go to such lengths to keep its members from talking to ex-members?"

Hmm, predictable comments from the usual disgruntled x JWs. Lets be straight about this, if anyone is involved in child molestation they shouls feel the full force of law. They should also face up to scriptural standards and, if so, removed from the organisation. My point is this - THIS ALREADY HAPPENS. No big cover up. No huge worldwide problem. Instaed of using this dispicable subject to try and get one over the JWs why don't you just go away and live your life as best you can.

Bob, I appreciate your thoughtful and carefully annotated entry, as well as Beverly and everyone else who has contributed something of substance without being shrill or disparaging.

I have learned a lot from reading these posts. My earlier statement "Can't we just live and let live" appplies to those who hold different religious beliefs than we do (provided the behavior is within reason and not infringing on others' rights). However, I cannot apply this thinking to an organization that is covering up child sexual abuse or otherwise psychologically abusing its members. Rather than politely declining conversation with the knockers and then closing the door, as I have done since I was a child, I am considering actually engaging these folks in loving conversation about these issues.

Now i have a question: Has anyone who has conversed with knockers brought up Michael Jackson? Do they acknowledge him as a Jehovah's Witness or not? What do they say in the context of HIS sexual abuse scandal? This kind of discussion could probably clarify some things about the Society. (I bring him up simply because he is probably the most well-known celebrity JW, not because of any particular interest in the man himself.)

Patrick, MJ hasn't been a JW for over a decade. And please, DO engage any JW in a conversation about these topics. We have nothing to hide.

To Scott Gates who asked: If a member of the watchower organization speaks out against any core doctrine, it is very likely that member will be disfellowshipped and no member of the organization will be allowed to speak to him (shunning). The question now has to be asked....."What does an organizaion, such as the watchtower, have to hide that it will go to such lengths to keep its members from talking to ex-members?""

Scott, there's nothing to hide. The disfellowshipping (shunning) idea was practiced by 1st century Christians under direction from the Apostle Paul - read 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 and Titus 3:10,11. From what I can see in the previous posts the same RandyDannyWilliam trio keep pushing the same twisted agenda every chance they get. What good does it do a JW to talk with them anyway? In fact, what form of Christianity DO they subscribe to? None. They want nothing else but a little recognition.

I (Danny) have been trashed at least twice so far in this thread by God fearing JW's.

95% of the general population recognize Jehovah's Witnesses as a bogus false obnoxious cult.

We just let you be,as it's a free country to squander your life in any belief system you choose.

However you will NOT impose your rules on the rest of us and those of us who have been victimized will not allow your watchtower propaganda to prevail.

To whom it may concern: Anytime/anywhere JW's lose their position defending the Watchtower cult they will stoop to personal attacks and will always "shoot the messenger".

Jehovah's Witnesses attack and revile and then go off 'Bible thumping' with a 'message of Love' this demonstrates what "wolves in sheep's clothing" you really are.

Learn the truth about the 'troof' http://www.freeminds.org

Yes, we are horrible "Bible thumping" "message of Love" Christians. We must REPENT!

95% also now recognize what a "Haszard" you are to society.

So well put by Zack earlier:
"Yes there is a huge scandal in the Kingdom Halls around the world to molest children and get away with it. Mwaahaaahhaahahhha. You geniuses have figured out the ultimate plan. In fact it is in the doctrine "Thou shalt molest as often as possible!" There is new book just for elders coming out that teaches them how to molest and get away with it. The more they molest the higher in the organization they go. And thanks to the great minds on this site it is all out in the open! Wait! Got to go. The aliens are back to take me home!

Goodbye my friends."

For those who are interested in religion and child abuse in the U.S., I highly recommend the following book: God vs. the Gavel: Religion and the Rule of Law (Hardcover)
by Marci A. Hamilton (Author), Edward R. Becker (Foreword)

Ms. Hamilton is a constitutional law expert; however, the book is a very easy read. She addresses all relgions equally, including Jehovah's Witnesses.

As a practicing JW, upon reading this book, I found it fascinating, and somewhat disturbing, how much we resemble "Babylon the Great," particularly the Catholic Church. We copy its legal defenses, and our child abuse policy is precisely the same as the Catholic Church. We may call her a "whore," but regarding child abuse, we look uncomfortably like her.

The reason we should not "let them alone" is that they are lost without the Savior. Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe that Jesus Christ is God, but "a god". They are locked in a system that requires them to give out X amount of literature and visit X number of doors. Even then, though, they have no assurance of salvation. The original JW doctrine said only 144,000 would be saved. Since there are more JWs than that, no one is sure that they made it to heaven. Their funerals, one of which I attended as the deceased's doctor, are so sad because they do not even mention the deceassed. I realized later it was because no one knows if the person, even if they were a good JW in life, has gone to heaven. Ever since then I have witnessed to every JW that comes to my door, because they are lost in a system of works righteousness and so need Jesus (the real one).

How about if we just let the Watchtower speak for itself on the level of obedience to elders in the congregation expected:

At times, an elder may not do things as directed by the faithful slave class and its Governing Body. If he continues acting this way, he will have to render an account to Jehovah, "the shepherd and overseer of [our] souls." (1 Peter 2:25) But any failure or mistakes on the part of certain elders would not justify an insubordinate attitude on our part. Jehovah does not bless disobedience and rebellion.-Numbers 12:1, 2, 9-11.

Need I say more?

Wow, I am shocked at how little all of you experts really know.

I too was raised a JW, and I no longer attend, but I still know enough to realize that you are all full of it.

First of all, this is about pediphilia, so leave the trinity discussion out of it.

Point 1 - over 90% of disfellowshipped people are disfellowshipped for Immorality... very very few are disfellowshipped for apostacy.

Point 2 - The JW's WILL disfellowship someone who abuses a child if they can find someone witnessed it happening. If it is one person's word against another, then they follow the bible's admonition that there must be two witnesses. Take it up with God if you don't like it.

Point 3 - the JW's followed the law in reporting. When the law changed, so did their rules, since they are required to follow the law of the land. The same thing happened with just about every other religion... the only difference is the when a baptist is a pedophile, they never list his religion in the headlines.

Point 4 - the JW's are progressive. If you want to find out what they believe, don't quote from an article form 1950.. it is out of date and no longer what is taught. You may not understand how an organization can change, but that is what the JW's are based on, the search for truth.

Yes, the JW's do have a pedophile problem. And the problem is that there have been legitement issues that were handled poorly and some have been corrected, some will be corrected and some will probably slip thru the cracks, sadly. And if you believe in God, those molesters will pay. Even Jesus said that anyone who stumbles a young one, it woudl be better for them to have a stone tied around their neck and get tossed into the sea.

That being said, portraying the witnesses as a group who deliberately shelter molesters and encourage pedophiles is grossly mistaken. They have attempted to follow both God's guidelines and man's laws. While some chruches shuffled priests around, teh JW's did what they could. I am glad that this has all come to light since it will make them try even harder to rid the organization of pedophiles... which they view as a vile abomination just like everyone else, if not more so.

BTW - 1997 Wtchtower on abuse said that you are allowed to hate your attacker and that you don't ever have to forgive them.

"Well, the difference in our church is that we kick those people out as soon as we learn about the situation," she said.

I wish I had a nickel for every Protestant or Orthodox person who told me this very same thing--in virtually these same words--back when we Catholics were in the midst of our sex-abuse scandal. Since then, it has turned out that every one of the communions represented by my holier-than-thou acquaintances has been rocked by scandals involving extensive coverups of sex abuse.

Just to clarify what the JWs consider "immorality"... When I was 17 I decided I couldn't handle the congregation's hypocrisy anymore and I wanted out. So I smoked a cigarette and then went to the elders and told them. So they disfellowshipped me. Then a year later in another city I decided to work to get reinstated, which I accomplished. But a young man in the congregation was nevertheless counseled not to even be my friend because I had formerly been disfellowshipped. Again, the hypocrisy was shocking - that he couldn't be friends with someone who had worked hard to correct an error and had been found sufficiently corrected to be reinstated - yet they never said anything about the elder's son who was a baptized member but who also smoked marijuana in the public metro. So this time I wrote the elders a letter simply saying that I wanted to be disfellowshipped because of the hypocrisy, not confessing to any wrongdoing, but gave them a good reason to boot me by wishing them a Merry Christmas as my closing line. And they did disfellowship me for that.

So, as for "immorality" I smoked one cigarette and wished them Merry Christmas.

And, btw, they never even counseled my adult brother-in-law who had molested me when I was 2-3 yrs old (he was in his late-20's). He became a JW when I was 13 and he never once acknowledged the wrong he had done to me. But instead counseled me strongly when I joined the JWs at 14 that because I had kissed boys I was a loose woman. I later found out from my niece that he continued his ways even as a JW and after my sister divorced him he married a woman with four girl children all under the age of 8.

And, to the doctor who was worried that they never mention their dead going to heaven - it's because they believe that only the 144,000 will go to heaven and be rulers with Christ. The rest of the members that die in good standing will be resurrected to a blissful life on earth after Armageddon cleans the planet of unbelievers. They are guaranteed this resurrection if they die in good standing with the organization - the ones that need to worry are those that are living at the time of Armageddon because they will be tested by God to see if they are worthy or not to live through the cleansing.

Oh, and btw, my ex-brother-in-law is still a JW and an elder since before I was disfellowshipped.

And I'm sure I'm not the only person who has intentionally sought to be disfellowshipped as a way to get away from the JWs. It still works today - they knock on my door, I say I'm disfellowshipped, and they go away.

Sorry Diane - haven't been for two years. I am "married to my job" and don't have the time.

BTW - thanks for the English lession. It must be nice to be the judge of the world. If spelling mattered that much, they would have spell check so that those of us with lives (and fat fingers) could say what we need to say and get on with our lives, instead of trolling and lurking, looking for typographical errors to point out, in hopes that by degrading someone else, we can make our own retched lives just that less painful.

Mary - sorry that your ordeal, though there are some definate questions it raises, like why you want your brother in law punished by the JW's for something he did before becoming a JW. By all means, prosecute, but why have the JW's do it?

Disfellowshipped for 1 cigarette... very fishy, unless you also told them to f*ck off. You see, anyone who does something once, including smoking a joint on the subway or smoking one cig, and who is repentant, is given a second chance.

As for the rest, you either had a very wacky elder body, this was a very long time ago, or you are not giving all the facts... and if you are, then I am extreamly sorry.

Either way, it is hardly "normal" JW behavior.

And Diane - hav a nic daye

I was not repentant and did not want a second chance. I just wanted out and one cigarette was enough. I only mentioned it because I want folks reading this thread to understand what the JW definition of "immorality" includes...not all disfellowshipped folks are heinous horrible people and many of us just want a way out.

If Jehovah's Witnesses are hiding "thousands" of child abuse cases, then I want to know how because there is no way in hades that any huge organization could keep that under wraps.

These comments are simply from non-religious close-minded people that want to destroy all those that care about christian living, OR they are from angry whiners that got thrown out of the church for not applying bible standards.

Either way, get a life. We live in AMERICA last time I checked.FREE COUNTRY BABY!!!

""If Jehovah's Witnesses are hiding "thousands" of child abuse cases, then I want to know how because there is no way in hades that any huge organization could keep that under wraps.""

Posted by: Sarah Fisher at May 25, 2007

---------
HUH?? There are THOUSANDS OF ARTICLES & WEB PAGES ON THE JW PEDOPHILE COVERUP
(You are posting in one of them)
CNN,NBC Dateline,CBS,ABC,BBC many more all over the world...

And there in lies the real truth, Mary. There are thousands of "articles and web pages on the JW pedophile coverup" - not "thousands of cases".

So, no reason for a dogmatic "Huh?" as if you did not read the question correctly. Perhaps you can use a 'reading check' before your next post. Also, maybe a little dogmatic on calling people liars when you yourself just tried to perpetuate one.

So mary - that is what I figured. I am still sorry for your ordeal, though your facts were misleading... like saying the "elder's kid" got away with it. He obviously was repentant, whereas you made your bed and chose to lie in it.

As far is immorality, you can go to any witness website and immorality is always associated with s*x.

Smoking is a disfellowshippable offense, but it is never considered immorality.

I understand why you wanted out, but when you tell your story, tell all the facts.

Sarah - you said "HUH?? There are THOUSANDS OF ARTICLES & WEB PAGES ON THE JW PEDOPHILE COVERUP
(You are posting in one of them)
CNN,NBC Dateline,CBS,ABC,BBC many more all over the world"

While teh Catholic church is fighting this battle in every state and has literally thousands of documented cases, the majority of those "thousands of articles" are refering to the same few cases.

the fact that even one case affects a witness is WRONG, but the number is considerably smaller then all of these articles woudl have you believe. If you read them, they all tell the same few stories over and over.. sometimes the name changes, but the city and state and circumstances are exactly the same, down to the smallest detail (which usually means that it is the same story, told twice with different names)

I have been on the Silentlambs website and even advised a close friend to contact them about her dad. However, a few days later her father was disfellowshipped for pedophilia. The case took longer then she had expected (she was hoping for an immediate turn around and it took a month). Her dad was turned over to the police and is now a listed s*x offender.

So I have been on both sides of this conversation.

Pls don't get the idea that the JW's are intentionally hiding pedophiles and that is what those thousands of articles are saying.

And the other thing the articles fail to mention is that the JW's followed the law. I personally am upset about that... I would have liked for them to turn these sicko's into the authorities and I am glad that the laws changed. But just remember, those same laws hurt people in ALL religions. And you still won't see "Baptist pedophile" in the newspaper, because people hold JW's to a higher standard. And while most JW's try to follow God's word, there are a few sickos as well. The law of averages says there are bound to be. I garentee that your religion has them as well.. and that your church has attempted to help people in the past, out of hope for redemption.

Jehovah's Witnesses have a profound pedophile coverup and there ARE thousands of cases.

It's sad that watchtower fanatics are more concerned with protecting the watchtower corporation (which cares nothing about them) then protecting God's children.
Are you so arrogant not to stop and think that the general population are reading your insulting postings? Then you go out and knock on their doors.

Mary, I am a JW who does care about Jehovah's name - and it being held holy. You are insulting his name - since we are one of the few organizations that use it and tell other about it. So before you tarnish it with your outright half truths, think about that.

I really don't care who reads my postings - just don't want somebody to stumble in here and take your word for it that there are thousands of abuse cases. Perhaps you would like to give some more insight on the thousands of cases, and how many of those were before these people became JWs.

Please, it is clear your agenda is less than honorable. This is my last post - just so you don't have to worry about me anymore.

Jehovah's Witnesses are an abomination to the God whose name you blaspheme.

""....I have been on the Silentlambs website and even advised a close friend to contact them about her dad. However, a few days later her father was disfellowshipped for pedophilia. The case took longer then she had expected (she was hoping for an immediate turn around and it took a month). Her dad was turned over to the police and is now a listed s*x offender.

So I have been on both sides of this conversation.

Pls don't get the idea that the JW's are intentionally hiding pedophiles and that is what those thousands of articles are saying.

And the other thing the articles fail to mention is that the JW's followed the law. I personally am upset about that... I would have liked for them to turn these sicko's into the authorities and I am glad that the laws changed. But just remember, those same laws hurt people in ALL religions. And you still won't see "Baptist pedophile" in the newspaper, because people hold JW's to a higher standard. And while most JW's try to follow God's word, there are a few sickos as well. The law of averages says there are bound to be. I garentee that your religion has them as well.. and that your church has attempted to help people in the past, out of hope for redemption.

Posted by: my2cents at May 25, 2007

-----------------

CLASSIC PASSIVE/AGGRESSIVE TACTIC
EVERYTHING YOU HAVE PUT UP HERE IS MADE UP FABRICATIONS
You JW are something else.

Danny you need a whore. You are even more tormented now that you have left the JW org than when you were a celebated brother. Why not hook up with one of the haters on the net: Foreplay can consist of trashing the Watchtower; seeing that is what gets you excited! (Just make sure the fellow hater is over 18 cause we do want to see you on SilentScam.

As a former jw i just want to say that they totally cover everything up. I was abused by my father and pimped out to his pedophile friends. When my mother went to the authorities first they threatened her with disfellowshipping. She still went to the authorties though. Then through a stroke of bad luck my crazy grandmother tainted the case and it was never brought to trial.

The judge in the case did not think there was enough evidence to prosecute. he could not believe that jw could do this, this was back in 1985, so everything pretty much was swept under the rug. i am forever cursed with what my father and his pedophile friends did to me and my siblings. The witnesses are evil never let them in.

I was never disfellowshipped from the JW's. I instead learned about all of these other things, did my own heartfelt research on the society and realized it is wrong on blood. I also then learned about all those other mistakes.

There is no way God would say yes that organ transplants are okay, as the Society did. Then change his mind and say no, organ transplants are forbidden (as they did). And then again, 13 years later, say they are okay again.

Did Jehovah GOD change his mind?

Or did a few fallible men sitting up in Brooklyn?

Same goes for no vaccinations for 23 years.

Same goes for alternative service for over 50 years.

So, I then disassociated from the religion. Yet I am SHUNNED by all JW's for the rest of my life, including my stepson.

Find THAT POLICY in any scripture.

The JW's are not God's Organization at all.

Sorry.

Christianity IS the one true faith. There are sincere Christians among all of the many Christian denominations today.

How sad and arrogant for the Jehovah's Witnesses to believe that THEY ALONE are the only true christians on earth today and that only they will be left over after armageddon.

If the JW's are the only true faith, like they themselves say, ABOUT THEMSELVES, then what does "DEAD PEOPLE" due to the no vaccinations, no organ transplants and no blood or blood fractions policies that were reversed many years later say about such one true faith claims?

How about the many wrong end of the world predictions, in writing?

How about Beth Sarim?

How about 1935 where new light (just last month) says that 1935 never was the time when the 144,000 was sealed?

What about the current bad policies of shunning people that just disassociate and leave the Society rather than are disfellowshipped for wrong doing?

THAT is nowhere in the bible. Ask the elders about why.

Nope, while it is A religion, it is definitely NOT the true and only one that God approves of...

Not even close!

Sorry.

This is why I left one year ago, my wife left 10 mos ago and my daughter left teo weeks ago.

Just do a google search on Jehovah's Witnesses. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

The author of the article, Ted Olsen said:.."I can't remember exactly what she replied, but she said she was sure that I wasn't quite right about that. And by now she was eager to take me up on my earlier goodbye. She had already moved a step or two back."

***** Since walking away from the religion just over one year ago, I cannot believe how I have heard very similar replies as this, quoted above by Ted.

It appears that the problem has always to do with the person leaving the faith, or another religion perhaps has the problems; BUT NEVER CAN IT BE WITH THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES FAITH ITSELF.

This is what I call mind control.

Lettruth, I wonder if you have checked out the website on child abuse in the JW's? Probably not since they forbid you to do so. There is your conspiracy Zach. They won't let you find out if they really do disfellowship abusers or not.

Folks, child abuse happens in all denominations and among those in all walks of life. The Catholic Church has no corner on the market. In fact if you visit the stopbaptistpredators site you might find evangelicals have some work to do.

The issue here is that the JW's are using child abuse as a club to beat churches while ignoring their own problems. In a sense they abuse children again by using their pain as a tactic to convince people to join the JW's. That is reprehensible. Frankly I would not leave a sick pet alone with JW's. The ones I have met have been bigoted and cruel.

We tried to walk away from the Watchtower organization.. We were disfellowshipped as "apostates" when they called us back and asked us if we believed all of what the Watchtower taught. We told them (6 Elders of Jehovah's Witnesses only, not other JWs or the public) that we had some questions about 1914, going from door to door as a requirement for salvation (implied by the WT org) disfellowshipping for smoking, celebrating holidays, speaking to disfellowshipped persons (friends or family) and a few other I do not recall, but they did not say, "we will not disfellowship you if you keep this to yourself" they disfellowshipped us for JUST NOT BELIEVING what they taught. We were JWs for 50 years and because the Watchtower does not encourage you to have friends outside the organization, we lost all our friends and our family who are still JWs. We have a son and his family we have not seen for years, we have great-grandchildren we have never seen. I believe Jehovah's Witnesses can believe the way they want to, what I object to is their saying that everyone who is in the organization MUST FOLLOW WHATEVER THEY SAY or be disfellowshipped.

There have been many changes during my lifetime and many have died following their rules, which they have changed later. The Watchtower has not apologized for that. I have a friend who was disfellowshipped for playing bingo, I have another one who was disfellowshipped for having lunch with her disfellowshipped daughter. I have another one who was disfellowshipped for employing his brother who was disfellowshipped. I have one who was disfellowshipped for smoking, another for celebrating Christmas. There are no scriptures that say you are to shun anyone for these things. It says for SIN OR NOT BELIEVING IN THE TEACHINGS ABOUT JESUS.
LetTruthRing said: “ Scott, there's nothing to hide. The disfellowshipping (shunning) idea was practiced by 1st century Christians under direction from the Apostle Paul - read 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 and Titus 3:10,11. From what I can see in the previous posts the same RandyDannyWilliam trio keep pushing the same twisted agenda every chance they get. What good does it do a JW to talk with them anyway? In fact, what form of Christianity DO they subscribe to? None. They want nothing else but a little recognition.”

1 Corinthians 5:11,12 NWT says: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company with any called a brother that is a FORNICATOR, or a GREEDY PERSON or an IDOLATOR or a REVILER or a DRUNKARD or an EXTORTIONER not even eating with such a man.” Titus 3:10, 11 NWT says: As for a man that PROMOTES A SECT, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning, he being self-condemned” Most people who are disfellowshipped for these things KNOW they have not followed the Bible’s rules and do not feel hurt or angry when they are, but those who have been hurt are the ones who have been called “APOSTATE” because they want answers, or have been unjustly disfellowshipped for things not condemned in the Bible. There are thousands of people who have been disfellowshipped for little or no reason. We were one of them and we HAVE NOT TRIED TO DEFAME the Watchtower. But they have devastated our family and our life and they do not want to take responsibility for doing so. They say it is our fault and we can "repent and come back". What can we repent for? You can read our story at www.geocities.com/veliveleth You will find our judicial committee transcript at the bottom.

my2cents said: “And you still won't see "Baptist pedophile" in the newspaper, because people hold JW's to a higher standard. And while most JW's try to follow God's word, there are a few sickos as well. The law of averages says there are bound to be. I garentee that your religion has them as well.. and that your church has attempted to help people in the past, out of hope for redemption”. Posted by: my2cents at May 25, 2007
my2cents: Jehovah’s Witnesses are the ones who say: “We follow a higher standard”. Because they do, others expect them to live up to a higher standard. It is because they claim to be “no part of this world” and point out others’ failure to live up to the Bible, that they are in the news. They say they are God's ONLY ORGANIZATION on this earth. They say they are the only ones in the whole earth who will be saved. I believe they have a right to believe this, but I do not think they have a right to judge those who do not agree with them. There are lots of good and decent people in the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization. Yes there are a few who are pedophiles and child molesters as in the rest of the population. What is wrong is that when a child goes to his parents and tells them he has been molested, and they report this to the Elders, they should be taken seriously! It is not easy for them to do this. Why would they, except in rare occasions, falsely accuse someone? I was molested as a child and I never told a soul. I know the feelings of shame and disgust and pain I held inside, but I just could not bring myself to say it out loud. If you have ever experienced this, you know what I mean. For a child who has the guts to speak out, I admire and respect him. Even if the person who did it to him will not admit it, the Elders should take steps to see that the accused molester is not in a position to hurt other children.
my2centts said: Point 2 - The JW's WILL disfellowship someone who abuses a child if they can find someone witnessed it happening. If it is one person's word against another, then they follow the bible's admonition that there must be two witnesses. Take it up with God if you don't like it........my2cents
Let me say, my molester went to great lengths to be sure that no one witnessed his disgusting acts!!! A great deal has been made about having two or more witnesses. We asked that the ones who had reported us as “apostates” be at our committee hearing, but the Elders refused. Why did they not want them there? Was it because we were questioning some of the actions of the Watchtower? Why were they not so meticulous about having “two witnesses” there? Did they just assume that “hearsay” was sufficient? The courts of the world, as flawed as they are, would never condemn on the flimsy evidence that many Elders do.
There is lots of evidence out there. The Bible says at Proverbs 18:13: “When anyone is replying to a matter before he hears it, that is foolishness on his part and a humiliation.” Do not be quick to judge. Find out for yourself. Do not let others decide for you what you should believe. Get your information from God through His Holy Spirit and His Word. He says: “Ask and you will receive.”

I have been following the abuse scandals in various religions. You mentioned there are "Massive numbers of accusations" and that "one of the biggest abuse scandals right now is in the Jehovah's Witnesses". Though my Google reports have yielded occasional single items I see no evidence of massive numbers of accusations. Do you have proof? By massive did you intend to mean "extremely large in amount, degree, or scope"? That's what I read into it?

I have run into Danny Hazzard before. If what happened to him is true I pity him. It has made him into a bleeding victim. Unfortunately for his agenda his approach causes me to discount his comments as unbalanced.

Pedophiles are an unfortunate fact of our present lives. The nature of their illness causes them to remain unknown until they have done terrible damage. They slip into the Boy Scouts of America, YMCA, Evangelical churches, and public schools. The issue at hand is what policy do those organizations have in place to handle these monsters.

The Catholic church has been rewriting its policies along with the YMCA, Boy Scouts, public schools etc. I can only guess that the Jehovah's Witness leadership is doing the same. As to the past policy of the Watchtower; the Bible, the book I hope we all use as our guide, does in fact say, 'unless a matter is established at the mouth of two or more witnesses'. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to work with crimes such as pedophilia as it doesn't proactively protect future victims. I am waiting to see what transpires with the Witnesses and other organizations. In the mean time I am trying not to use this issue as a platform to "bad mouth" a sincere group.

Satan is our enemy folks not sincere Catholics or Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons no matter what our opinion of their beliefs and activities. We need to concentrate on doing God's will as we await the rider on the white horse to overturn Satan’s destructive twisted works.

Thanks

".......I have run into Danny Hazzard before. If what happened to him is true I pity him. Unfortunately for his agenda his approach causes me to discount his comments as unbalanced....
We need to concentrate on doing God's will as we await the rider on the white horse to overturn Satan’s destructive twisted works.

Posted by: SidneyC at May 25, 2007

* * * * *

Danny Haszard reply:This article isn't about me so why did you find it necessary to discredit me by throwing this in?

ANSWER- Because you are a stalking watchtower apologist troll who is out to intimidate and discredit anyone man,woman OR child who speaks out against your ungodly watchtower.

Haters. Jesus said he was the Messiah and that is accepted by many as being true. JWs say they have the truth and millions believe. You
do not have to beleive in Jesus nor do you have to become a JW; this is not the Crusades people.

The Bible says "stay away from blood" and only JW obey this verse. There are more cases of people becoming sick from blood than from JWs dying by not taking blood. Interestingly Church goers are the most blood thirsty warmongers ever. It was the Falwell followers who gave Bush the stongest backing to go to war. It is the mainstream churches members that killed the native Indians and stole their land. It is the mainstream churches that have oppresed the masses all around the world and teach the stupid Trintiy.(Nimrod was father and son, he killed his father and married his mother)

There are more "accusations" of sexual abuse than there are
actual instances of abuse. Should every one ever accused of sexual
abuse be villified, demonised, expeled and placed on an offeders list without due process. Do research on what due process is because you haters are typically shallow.
Clarence Thomas was accused of sexual abuse but nevetheless sits on the Supreme Court. His nomination was not thrown out because a lady said he made a sexual comment to her. Likewise if a 14 year old girl has ulterior motives and falseley accuses her step father of sexual abuse; should the JW congregation just announce to the congrgation that Bro So and So is a molester without first determining the truthfullness of the accusation. The US constituton says persons are innocent until proven guilty. Most of you idiots should keep your opinions to your selves. Jesus takes in hos and tax collectors but you fools better stick to phucking yourselves because that is what all these anti JW treads are all about. Danny needs some one to play with; I suggest you haters go tie a stone to your necks and jump in the deepest ocean; no JW will ever knock on your door again you brain in your ass demoniacs.

Anytime/anywhere JW's lose their position defending their Orwellian Watchtower cult they will stoop to personal attacks and will always "shoot the messenger".

No matter how much the Watchtower apologist discredits opposers he will STILL grow old and die.You don't even get to go to Heaven,a miserable boring oppressive life then you die.

Moreover,your watchtower masters don't care about your sacrifice and loyality.

The Jehovah's Witnesses church has a serious situation of child abuse and criminal pedophilia.This is worsened by their subterfuge "two witness" demand of evidence.

Suggestion for Danny Boy. Enrol in a community college, learn to research and develop a hypothesis, write essays, articles, books
that have references, stong arguments and honorable motive rather than blabbing ignorant anti witness propaganda. We know you are hurt, so do some thing constuctive with your life. You are stuck in a mindset similar to one typical of a psycopath who we hear about on the news, all because they cant deal with past grieviances. Come on failure is ok, so long as you move on. So promise not to think any bad JW thoughts anymore; you have been d..ed a long time ago, its time for a new begining. The whorehouse is my recommendation. A good piece of ass would ease your mind from all the doors that were slammed in your face, a reward for all the worldly girls that thought you were weird, exaltation from the failure of not being appointed MS, the opposite of the assemblies you slept though and the "normal" life you missed out on; no birthday, no prom, no college, no spring break no Santa; come on guy; are there no dude ranches near you? A good Brazilian chick would make you say thank you Jesus.

There are a few things that contribute to the problem of abuse (sexual, domestic, and predatory) among Jehovah's Witnesses, and these prevent an internal action.

1) The Governing Body is highly invested in their status as God's channel on earth. They are the ultimate authorities for direction, and JWs fear that they will not survive the end times if they do not follow every rule laid down. On the Governing Body's side, this gives them serious power over their flock (a free sales force). They have invested heavily in legal protection to keep these cases gagged. On the other side, JWs would never think to question or debate these issues at the community level. There is no debate culture here - it's completely top-down.

2) This adherence to the letter rather than the spirit permeates the organization at all levels. They have trouble prioritizing or making ethical judgments. Celebrating Christmas or smoking cigarettes or growing facial hair is considered at pretty much the same level as more serious mistakes. As with other authoritarian groups, kindness is not a high priority. They think more in terms of yes/no, black/white, evil/good than in terms of growth and transformation. For the sake of congregational purity ("keeping the congregation clean"), they will shun even family members for relatively minor offenses. Yet they will defend the two-witness rule, especially if it involves a male member of the congregation, even if it means that there is no supervision of a known pedophile that can then interact privately with children.

3) Since they believe that all non-JWS are part of the satanic worldly system of things that is about to be destroyed, members are also discouraged from reporting abuse to the police. This is the bigger problem. There is no psychological help - elders chastise, not advise. The "guidance" is from Watchtower publications.

4) At the local level, elders and ministerial servants are completely untrained in theories of biblical interpretation or the history of such interpretation. They know little if anything about languages, cultures, or any credible scholarship of the bible. They are also strongly discouraged from learning via any source except for their own translation and publications. They do not mentor, they do little to no traditional pastoral work. They have no calling, and individual gifts are suppressed. Elders, who have surveillance and reporting control over each congregation are just "older men." The potential for abuses -well, it's a bit predictable.

5) Despite the hours of talking door to door, there is no real development of respectful dialogue. It doesn't exist internally, and it doesn't appear much even through the door-to-door work. The idea is to spread the message, so that they will have fulfilled their task of giving everybody a chance to reject God. Then, when the God of Love kills them all, they won't have to feel bad.

6) A community that is simultaneously self-righteous and ruled by fear creates strange power dynamics and pathologies among its members. Women are second, third or fourth-class semi-citizens, despite being in the majority. Children are, structurally, sales tools and possessions. Child abuse was fairly common when I was growing up, and the divisions among families disrupt stability in other ways as well. They are not integrated well within their larger communities.

Having said all that, I do believe that the rank and file Jehovah's Witness is doing what he/she thinks is the right thing to do. They often do so at the cost of personal sacrifices (college, loss of family and friends, perhaps even death if they refuse a blood transfusion). I have known some JWs who were wonderful people.

It is true that some of the cases they ushered through the legal system contributed to the civil rights. I wonder how many people now remember that the refusal to salute the flag was one of them? Still, the civil rights history they made in the courts says nothing about the civil rights of their members. They don't use rights language at all.

The organization has serious problems - and they create serious problems for their members. For a variety of reasons, they have chosen to consider their own reputation - and even the reputation of predators - to be more important than the voices of victims.

Many former JWs are damaged by their experiences. Many of them continue to be shunned by their own families, even in some cases by their own children. Show them some kindness too.

The guy who did the "Knocking" film would have been kicked out long ago if he had become a Jehovah's Witness. They don't approve of worldly involvement (despite Michael Jackson, the Williams sisters, etc) and making films, although they won't turn away the positive PR. And...he's gay, so that's pretty much it. I respected his exploration, which was clearly prompted by family involvement. He tried to be fair. I wish that he had spent a little time with the many people who could have told him more about the darker side of the group, but each creative work has its own life.

How about the thousands of victims who have spoken out about their JW molester and told the truth about how the congregation covered it up? Instead of offering solace or comfort to those who have experienced this heinous crime, all the JW trolls can say to those who offer solutions like Danny Haszard is 'Your Stupid' or other insulting quackery.
Perfect example of what they are taught to do. HATE those who speak out about the truth behind the JW organization.

Where is your kind works for those whom have suffered and bravely spoke out and told their story?

For the real truth see:

www.silentlambs.org

How about the thousands of victims who have spoken out about their JW molester and told the truth about how the congregation covered it up? Instead of offering solace or comfort to those who have experienced this heinous crime, all the JW trolls can say to those who offer solutions like Danny Haszard is 'Your Stupid' or other insulting quackery.
Perfect example of what they are taught to do. HATE those who speak out about the truth behind the JW organization.

Where is your kind works for those whom have suffered and bravely spoke out and told their story?

For the real truth see:

www.silentlambs.org

Is an organization to expel a person on mere accusation? If every
accuser was reported to the police even the police would not
prosecute without credible evidence. You are all haters who belong in the Dark Age. Do a study of the data base of molesters and you
will see that these are from all walks of life; very few are
JWs. Your relatives may be molesters too; so pray that your children
not become victims. The chances of a witness molesting your loved one is less than if your boyfriend feels up your daughter. Come on
guys JWs hold no power over anyone but themselves; why are you all so paranoid; may be you are just jealous that a bunch of weirdos measure up to true Cristian standards than you do. What prevents
you from getting a Bible Study started, you all need it.

This is ChristianityToday blog for Christians I let my children come here.
I am repulsed by the obscene rambling postings of the Jehovah's Witnesses .

TO ALL JEHOVAH WITNESSES READING THIS:

It doesn't matter if the Watchtower organization has 1 case of pedophiles or 1 million.

THE POINT silentlambs and ex-JWs are trying to make is this:

ALL allegations of sexual abuse should automatically be reported by anyone in the Watchtower organization to THE POLICE so that THE POLICE can pursue a criminal investigation, The Elders are NOT trained to counsel/interview a victim nor determine if a crime did indeed take place. THEY are overstepping their boundaries when they do so, both legally (in many cases) and ethically.

WATCHTOWER/ELDERS: REPORT ALLEGED CHILD ABUSERS TO THE POLICE! PERIOD.

Stop trying to protect your "good reputation" as Jehovah's organization. Children's lives are being ruined because of YOU and someday you will be held accountable before Jehovah God for what you are doing.

You are further damaging a young child emotionally when you callously and unprofessionally interview that child and ask questions like, "Where did Brother so-and-so touch you?" "Did you enjoy it?" "Did he come?" "Did you have to suck his...." I know many sexual abuse survivors (men and women) and these are just some of the questions they faced from a BODY OF MEN in a closed room as part of their interrogation process. Talk about embarrassing, frightening, and humiliating! Child welfare services would be appalled if they only knew what goes on behind Kingdom Hall doors.

Brenda Lee, "Out of the Cocoon: A Young Woman's Courageous Flight from the Grip of a Religious Cult," www.outofthecocoon.net

Uroy suggested a poster enroll in "community college." While I have nothing against community colleges I do note that the WT prefers its minions to not pursue higher education. Why would they do that? I would surmise they don't want their people to think critically. Those who do find themselves ex-jw's. Another note to Uroy. If you had studied Hebrew you would know that the word "Jehovah" doesn't exist. If you insist on using the divine name then you had better get it right. There is no "j" or "v" in Hebrew. Does your local community college teach ancient languages? You might also consider that those who "translated" the NWT were not scholars in any sense of the word.

The fact is that the JW's have a child abuse problem and are trying to avoid it. That won't work. The WTBTS has already reorganized itself legally in order to avoid liability. An inquiring mind might wonder if they know a storm is coming? Also as I mentioned earlier the JW's are on a binge of attacking Christian churches for faults that are amply represented in their own organization. Does the log in the JW's eye hurt yet?

Heidi,
Your comments were well chosen and balanced. Yes, there are a lot of good, kind and caring JWs. It is a shame that they blindly follow their Watchtower leaders in shunning their family when their family either chooses or is forced to walk away. I believe that everyone, including JWs, should be able to worship God, or not, as they choose. I have known so many whose lives were devastated by the cruelty of shunning even to the point of suicide, thinking their life was not worth living. Everyone, esp. children, should have self-worth and from my personal experience, it is not what the WT encourages, I did not realize how pervasive this was until one day when we were still witnesses)I told my youngest daughter "Honey, you are a winner" and she cried and said: "Don't say that Mom, Jehovah doesn't want us to think that way". Where did she get that? I was shocked, I did not tell her that. She got it from the: you are not important enough to have us celebrate your birthday, we do not honor men, God's organization is the only important thing we honor, I am sure. We send messages to our children that we do not actually say. When children come to us with problems or what has happened to them, like molestation, and we do not believe them or validate them,or follow through to correct the sin against them, we are sending a message they will carry in their subconscious for the rest of their lives. We say: “They are not worth believing, that the people in Jehovah’s organization are more important than they are”. We need balance in our lives. We are not to hate those who disagree with us, or that we disagree with. God tells us that we must forgive. We must love. Speaking the truth, in love is what is commanded in the Bible. We should feel free to speak about what is in our hearts. Many people feel that if you disagree with what they believe, that you are attacking them. If we accept what is said as neutral and then check it out, we may find that what the person is saying is backed up by fact --- or not. To get emotionally upset, accomplishes nothing. It blinds one. Thank you, Heidi. This was very well written and contains a lot of thought- provoking ideas. Those of us who cannot speak to family members and dear friends that have not spoken to us, nor even acknowledged us when we see them, have been really hurt and there is nothing we can do about it. We cannot repent for being who we are and who God has made us to be. I pray that the Jehovah's Witnesses who come to sites like this will realize that much of the anger that is expressed comes from a broken heart. It comes from frustration. It comes from knowing that shunning or disfellowshipping although practiced in the early church was not for just any little disagreement, but was for major sins such as, denying Christ or immorality. Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 3:13 NWT: "For your part brothers, do not give up in doing right. But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. And yet do not be considedring him as an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother." How can you admonish anyone if you cannot speak to them?

Even the man who was disfellowshipped for taking his father’s wife, a sin so grievous that even the pagans would not tolerate, was reached out to and they confirmed their love to him. He apparently did not have to make a formal application to the Elders, sit in the back of the hall and not be in on the prayer for a year. It says: ‘they forgave him and comforted him and affirmed their love for him.’

1 Corinthians 5: 1-5
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the sinful nature so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

2 Thess 2: 5-8 NIV If anyone has caused grief, he has not so much grieved me as he has grieved all of you, to some extent—not to put it too severely. 6The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him. 7Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him.

2 Cor.2: 5-8 The Message Now, regarding the one who started all this—the person in question who caused all this pain—I want you to know that I am not the one injured in this as much as, with a few exceptions, all of you. So I don't want to come down too hard. What the majority of you agreed to as punishment is punishment enough. Now is the time to forgive this man and help him back on his feet. If all you do is pour on the guilt, you could very well drown him in it. My counsel now is to pour on the love.

2 Cor.2: 5-8 NLT I am not overstating it when I say that the man who caused all the trouble hurt all of you more than he hurt me. Most of you opposed him, and that was punishment enough. Now, however, it is time to forgive and comfort him. Otherwise he may be overcome by discouragement. So I urge you now to reaffirm your love for him.

This is a very different kind of disfellowshipping than is practiced by the Watchtower. I pray that the Watchtower Governing Body will consider the deep hurt they have caused by the kind of shunning they do and reconsider what the Bible has to say on this matter.

And this folks, is the true color of many Jehovah's Witnesses...with Bible in one hand, a smile on their face, knocking on your door next Saturday morning:

Posted by: Uroy at May 25, 2007:
Danny you need a whore. You are even more tormented now that you have left the JW org than when you were a celebated brother. Why not hook up with one of the haters on the net: Foreplay can consist of trashing the Watchtower; seeing that is what gets you excited! (Just make sure the fellow hater is over 18 cause we do want to see you on SilentScam.

GENERAL PUBLIC: Be warned!

Brenda Lee, "Out of the Cocoon: A Young Woman's Courageous Flight from the Grip of a Religious Cult" www.outofthecocoon.net

There are 100,000 sites and places on the web to trash witness. The
witnesses do not use the internet to find converts. It is disgruntled ex witnesses and Church mice with no useful purpose in
life who vent on the web. The JWs are persons in a man made religion
just like most others, they pay their taxes, read the Bible and
go to the toilet like every one else. The obsession that most of the persons on sites like these have; bashing the Witnesses, who hold no power in any jursidiction only prove how paranoid you are. Danny says the Jehovhas Witness are one of the wealthiest organizations in NY, I guess he is talking about spiritual wealth. If you haters can't see that you are stupid; well, you do have an excuse when God Judges the web(by reason of no brainpower). And if you cant discern that not every one who defends the JW is a Witness you need to go back to school or keep quiet, Renda Flee Cocoo

Uroy, my experience is that no one can hate others like the JW's do. I am willing to compare my education to yours if you wish. Danny is correct. Essentially JW's are unpaid magazine salesmen. The love to use their power to keep their people in line and hurt those who start to ask questions.

Ask questions? How dare cult members ask questions! The cult doesn’t allow any questions of the “faith”. Those that do are kicked out. The cult is the Mc Donald’s of mind control.

Whatever is said about the Jehovah's Witnesses, positive or negative, the bottom line is that they expect Armageddon very soon, and if you do not become one of them, Jehovah is going to destroy(kill) every man, woman, child and baby who is outside of their Organisation. What a loving and merciful thought!

Fr J. An unpaid magazine saleman is a volunteer. Preaching was a voluntary vocation in the First Century. As for education what kind
of idiot are you? John, Mark, Peter where unlettered and ordinary
people; and who the phuck was ever talking about education anyway. The Kingdom of God will contain few of noblility.Before presumptuosly boasting about your superior education you should check your spelling.
Danny is in need of mental help, you guys loath him but love the fact that he shoots wayward arrows at the Witnesses. I too do not believe that JW are credible but the unreasonable obsession that folk like you have against such an insignificant sect is worth you all being tormented. Go to hell all of you haters. Jesus may have died for your sins but your stupidity I beieve is incorrigible.

jon adabe. Do you believe in hellfire? Then your commenting about "loving and mericiful thoughts" is hyprocritical and dumb.
If you tell your child that if they do drugs they may end up dead;
according to your logic that would not be loving and merciful.

“You’ll never get sick. You will never grow old. And you will never die.”

Although the above words come from the movie “Cocoon,” they could have come from the Watchtower Society because this is the same thing they have been proclaiming for decades as part of “the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked lawless system of things.” This very appealing prospect attracts many people to begin to study the Bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses. It then sustains them as they eagerly wait for the fulfillment of this promise.

But during the course of their study they get drawn into an illusionary concept involving the Watchtower organization that gradually takes over their decision-making process and even their conscience without them realizing it. It happens because of a mistake that everyone makes before they decide to become a Jehovah’s Witness.

“Captives of a Concept” identifies both the concept and the mistake that causes people to become captives of it. The book also offers a few suggestions about how to help Jehovah’s Witnesses correct their mistake and teach themselves the truth about their religion.

www.CaptivesOfaConcept.com

Uroy, my spelling? I suggest you take a look at your own post. You can't even spell profanity correctly. Who brought up education? You did. John and Mark could obviously write rather well. We still read their works. I don't know Danny, but I assure you I don't "loath" him. However, for someone who is decrying hate you seem to be...well...hateful. Personally I don't think responding to the JW's anti-Catholic bigotry is hate. It is a moral obligation to correct them.

Why is it that people who leave the truth or are booted are so bitter? If you don't believe Witnessess have truth, fine. If you feel you were wronged, fine. If you feel that Jehovah's Witnesses have goofy beliefs, fine. But can we please get off the 'saving the world from JW's' kick. You got kicked out or left. Great! Move on and shut up. Danny please go get a beer and kick back. Reflect on your life and move on. For the love of all that is good and holy please move on. If Jehovah's Witnesses are the evil empire that you profess them to be they will get what is coming to them soon enough. If in fact they have the truth, well as my dad used to say, 'You in a heap of trouble.'

JW related news items generate most comments and counter attacks from both sides owadays.

TO "Zack" ABOVE

Here we go yet another devout JW sockpuppet TROLL pretending to be a dispassionate non-JW so he can give an "unbiased objective opinion" on the EXJW's

Jehovh's Witnesses lie so much just never know when they are telling the truth

"JW related news items generate most comments and counter attacks from both sides nowadays."

My comment,it's the same way with scientology as with jehovah's witnesses same level of heated debate,because they are both arrogant destructive cults

FRJ Danny is a ex-witness who is bitter about his experience as a witness. He was a virgin past 29 years of age according to his web site.For years he has shown an inability to let go and find happiness so spends his time posting ridiculous statements like:
"JW are evading taxes" "Jehovahs witness are among the richest oganization in NY" "JW took his family away from him" "JW scared him stiff with with Armageddon pictures and now he has a disease"
You just have to say "Jehovah's eat their children" and he will try to corroborate. I do not want to accuse him falsely but he might also been one to have said " Behind every family muder/suicide there is a JW connection." My earlier post recommended that he get some sex to forget his misery. I also suggest that he learn to write
effectively and intellegently by enrolling at a CC. You idiotically
started to place a bet that you attained higher education than me.
Danny excuse for his retardation is the JW cult what is yours?

Who cares about Danny Hazard???
It looks/sounds like a Jehovah's Witness is stalking this person.
Watch yourself!

Reply to Uroy, May 27 :- No, I don't believe in hell-fire. Some fundamentalist churches teach hell-fire, but most churches don't! As for 'telling a child that if they do drugs they may end up dead' my adult logic tells me that would be a loving and merciful thing to do, in fact to do all in my power to change that child's actions. This is quite unlike the destiny of all those men, women, children and babies whom the JW Governing Body say will be destroyed by Jehovah at your Armageddon because they fail to get into your 'Ark of Safety' ie the JW Organisation. I would say that the vast majority of those destined for destruction are honest, good living, good to their neighbours and fine people. Their only crime in life would be they chose not to belong to the JW organisation. If Armageddon happens (and I don't believe it will!) then your Organisation predicts something quite un-loving and un-merciful.

jon adabee The Book Of Revalation tells of horrible things that will happen to the wicked, those without faith, those who follow the Wild Beast, the great and the lowly; so it is not possible to discuss Armageddon and at the same time avoid the horrendous message of destruction. Sounds like you belong to a Sugar Coated Sect. Remember most Churches unlike JW have had a major role in the wars that has claimed millions of lives for the past 1000 years.So keep up your anti JW rhetoric; you are a million times more likely to die at the hands of someone who only professes to be a christian than a JW. (Born Again W started the Iraq War, my guess is you support him)

To Wiser above:

I made no claim as to my religion. I am a proud sockpuppet however. I have googley eyes that go in all different directions and a big red mouth. I am getting a new show on PBS soon, I hope that you will watch.

Jenny - Welcome new hater to the hater's club! Danny is a repulsive individual who no one would have any reason to stalk. Do you know that starting rumours could result in libel charges? You watch it.

There is NO COVER UP, on an organizational, congregational, or doctrinal level. The 2 eye witness thin is in th bibloe, plain, clear. If some choose to think its quaint, unfair, silly, then take it up wih God. IN all things, if your a christian, your SUPPOSED to defer to him on whats right, and whats not, including doctrine, and organizational issues. Look it up, it happened in the first century congregations about many things.
If som one did " get away" with abuse, or ignoring abuse, thats one thing. Do om lip through the cracks/ Im sure, just like every religious background, including atheism. Its part of humanity. The point is, you cant find a organization th practices what it preaches, andit preaches from the bible, more than them. And, they clearly., clearly do not condone or endorse any kind of sin, especially against children. The idea is absurd.It does not take awya the pain for those that have encountered this, but I believe it to be asmal number, and certainly NOT unique to J Ws. The catholic church, for one, has eye witneses, ans still lets these priests stay in. Jw 'o not Knowingly do this. And, the eye witnes thing is a superior way of judging, to prevent " cry wolf" om innocent people who have not abused, but are accused.
s

Zach, you want folks to leave the JW's alone? Then how about the JW's leaving the rest of us alone?

Uroy, you are the one who suggested that those who disagree with you are uneducated. Don't you read your own posts? I merely suggested comparing our relative levels of education. Now you bring up IQ. Fine, I am willing to compare my IQ with yours. I am confident that mine is higher. Now that we have that out of the way...The JW's are well known for attacking other faiths. When you do that then you will suffer counter-attacks. If the JW's can't take it then they should not try to dish it out. Remember the original article here is about JW's blasting other faiths in a bigoted fashion. When was the last time Catholics came to your door and told you all the evils of the JW cult?

Sonny, I think you should visit the silent lambs website. What you claim about the Catholic Church is happening in your Kingdom Hall. You would be very surprised what your theocratic organization has been up too. I do happen to belong to a Church that preaches the Bible. The Catholic Church and it produced the canon of that Bible you quote.

No i don't care if you leave Witnesses alone. It is just hilarious listening to the claims from all of these ex witnesses. No doubt that not everyone griping on here is an ex-witness but the majority are. As stated before, if Jehovah's Witnesses are the evil empire that Mr. Hazzard claims, then don't worry they will get what's coming to them. We will all find out soon.

I've seen some of Danny Haszards info posted in the past and I always assumed he was in the business of running an intervention program parents whose children expressed interest in JW's.

All I can say is I visited his website and spent 2 minutes checking it out. Please do yourself a favor and check it out. Ask yourself after seeing it if you would trust the guy with $2. He reminds me of vagrants panhandling in the inner city.

Since we are evidently encouraged to speak freely here - After seeing his website - I honestly don't believe a word he says. Judge for yourself.

Some of the others here at this site appear to also sell anti-JW books, so judge for yourself how trustworthy they are. What motivates them??

In the final analysis, I'll take the JW's I know personally, over this group, which is seething with hate. No doubt a bunch of good Christians (See 1 Cor 13). What a laugh!!! I feel sorry for you guys if this is what your life is all about.

Just out of curiosity, do any of you guys even read the bible? If yes, how do you thing Matthew 6:9-14 applies?

The issue here is not "Danny." That is not what the article was about, so let's keep on topic here. It was about JW's bashing other faiths. They do that quite frequently. I have read the WT. If you want hate you have only to read what they say about the Catholic Church. I have read the Bible and suggest Matthew 7:1-5 for the JW's to meditate upon. Btw, I am not an ex-JW. I am a Catholic priest and what they say about me is absolutely vicious. I take it personally. Brock, if you prefer the company of bigots be my guest.

FRJ OK enough of Danny. Show me where I tried to tried to compare
education? The WT does aggresively go after other faiths especially
the Catholic Church. Jesus also denounced the Pharasees. Nevertheless 1/4 JWs are former Catholics and not even 100 JW ever become Catholics. The JW use the protestant canon not the Catholic canon. JW do not only have a Bible but in addition can support their beliefs using your Bible. "Abstain from blood" "do not call anyone Father" "The Father is greater than(Jesus)" Only a few examples which result in others calling them a cult and un- Christian. Jesus did say that "they hated me as they will
hate you(his disciples.)" The Catholic Church has had to ask forgiveness of Jews, and many othes for the Crusades, the Inquistion, its part in enabling the Holocaust to iccur and its pedophile scandal. Jehovahs Witness have only had to admit to predicting wrong dates. The so called molestation scandal in the JW org is overblown by haters; it is my opinion that JW have less of a molestation problem than any other group. Which other group expells persons for fornication in the thousands every month?

Yes JW's bash other religions, but they don't make up lies. Jehovah's Witnesses are equal opportunity bashers. The Catholic church gets the brunt because it is responsible for more death and destruction on this planet than any other group. If you'd like I'd be happy to make a list of the atrocities committed in the name of Jesus by the Catholic church over the centuries, but it would be too long to list here.

To Uroy:- Your post seems to indicate that the 'horrendous message of destruction' in the book of Revelation will happen to the 'wicked, those without faith, those who follow the Wild Beast [ie the United Nations whom the Watchtower Society sucked up to as an NGO for 10 years!] and the great and the lowly'.
When I read that those destroyed will include even children and babies, justified by placing responsibility on the parents for failing to take them into the JW Organization, then I have to repeat that that teaching is both un-loving and un-merciful. As a JW you are required to accept that teaching and therefore must agree that 'if' Armageddon occurs you must also agree that ALL non-JW's including children and babies must die. I call that sadism.
Although I accept that most JW's are honest, peaceful by nature and sincere in their beliefs, I find it repulsive that each JW is required to believe in an Armageddon which promises to slaughter 6 Billion of the World's population, not because they are evil but because they choose not to belong to the JW Organization.
(If by "Born again W started the Iraq war" you mean President Bush, your guess is wrong; I do not support him, neither do I oppose him; I do not have sufficient factual information to make an informed decision. Bear in mind that JW taxes go towards supporting that conflict, and you know that your taxes support war, so where is your opposition to paying such taxes? I can hear 6 million JW's respond with the same stock and enforced answer!)

jon abade In Bible times God had women,children, and men killed in the Flood, at the detruction of Sodom, when the Isrealites invaded the land of Canaan and on many other occations. He even allowed his son to be tortured on a tree.The Bible is a book of love but also a book about violence. God is a God of vengence. Instead of arguing with me go read Revelation for yourself.A rebelious child was to be stoned in Bible times.(Our loving God believes in cruel punishment) JW are not advocating the killing of people who are not JW, they only believe that like Noah who survived the Flood that they are doing the works that will save them when God takes his vengence out on the earth.

Well, we're so far off-topic now that it's time to close the thread.