Comments

Another sign that Evangelicals are more worried about sex than a person's relationship with Jesus?

You have GOT to be kidding, right? Sadly, it seems not. The Evangelical movement is so out of touch with Jesus Christ and his teachings that one among them would consider this a close call, so to speak? Homosexual or Mormon - ooh, that's a tough one. Freakish! These folks could learn a lot from the Mormons I suspect.

As a former evangelical and former Catholic, I am saddened but not surprised that the culture warriors of conservative Christendom now show far greater zeal AGAINST abortion and homosexuality than they show FOR our Savior. A vast number of ethical concerns that confront us all today -- none of these can be effectively addressed so long as we allow the culture warriors to distract us from faith in Jesus, divide the church, and splinter society.

Why the embrace of a former homosexual if he is not saved? What if his "conversion" does not stay? Then we as Christians have promoted a temporary fix that is faulty. He is not born again. We have sold our souls.

As someone whose life was saved and soul healed through Christ's atonement, as I found it in what's known as Mormonism, this discussion would be amusing if not for the missed joys it reveals in the participants.

"I glory in plainness; I glory in truth; I glory in my Jesus, for he hath redeemed my soul from hell." (2 Nephi 33:6)

That's a tough one -- Whom does Jesus hater more, gays or Mormons? Well, I guess the Mormon Jesus would say gays, but the Republican Jesus would damn the gays on his way to bombing some arabs.

As a born again LDS, I find this article to be very revealing and problamatic for the Evangelical narrow-minded folks, and some of the comments that follow even more so. It strikes me as completely condescending on the part of the Evangelical community, to insist that my experiences, Bibilcal studies, thoughts and logical conclusions cannot be as real as theirs. That is to say, we both read the same Bible, come to different conclusions, and therefore I am deemed to be either an illiterate idiot or simply spiritually blind. There is absolutely no consideration at all on the other side that perhaps my expereinces, Biblical studies, thoughts and logical conclusions could have any merit whatsoever. Amazing! Simply amazing.

Now what do you do with a former homosexual who has been healed through his conversion to Jesus Christ via his experience with Mormonism? Quite a catch 22 you find yourselves in here fellas. I would hope that this experience would serve as a microcosmic map to the Evangelical community as a whole.

There are many reasons why little attention ought to be paid to such declarations. A realistic assessment of various believers who declare themselves to be ex-gay and then ex-ex-gay suggests that perhaps Christian and other publications ought to wait five years or so since the initial declaration of "ex-gayness" to see how things turn out in the long run.

Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin. Love the Heretic, Hate the Heresy (Titus 3:10). Love the Homosexual, Hate the Homosexuality (Romans 1:26-30). Love the Catholic, Hate the Idolatry (I Corinthians 6:9). Love the Feminist, Hate the Feminism (I Corinthians 14:34,35). Love the Mormon, Hate the Mormonism (Galatians 1:8,9). Frankly, I don't know to love/hate more...mormons, homos, feminists or idolators!!

Don--you are not born again if you are LDS. You do not believe in the right Jesus, and you are not saved. Repent or burn. Plain and clear. You worship Joseph Smith and see him up there with Christ (ask yourself who is mentioned more at Church--JS or Jesus). He is a false prophet. He is a Bible plagerizer and whoremonger. Don--your life is in the balance. You have choosen to accept a new-agey LDS/born again hybrid, trying to cover both ground--but if you are in the middle, you are dead. Jump to the Jesus side before it is too late. The Mormons will destroy you, and they will destroy Michael Glatze. You are blind and cannot see.

Maybe Don that tells you something--you base your "truth" on your "experience." If you based it on the Bible, you would not accept Mormonism as truth. Maybe Satan is leading your experience?

So we disregard any spiritual experience and leave it all up to bible study?

What about people who are dyslexic or otherwise have trouble reading?

Are we saying the Lord has made no provision at all for them to come to know him?

This argument just makes no sense.

Clearly just studying on its own is NOT enough. Everyone has their own interpretation of the Bible, it's been revised and altered continously over the centuries - hence so many different Christian churches.

What kind of a parent teaches his children as kids, leaves some instructions and then goes silent for the rest of their lives while those instructions get continously revised and amended without that parent's permission?

Is this what you imagine our Heavenly Father, the most perfect parent, has done?

LDS accept and believe in the Bible - but we also accept it is unlikely to be in its pristine state and so we don't rule out the possibility that God continues to speak to us today, through prophets, as before.

The Holy Ghost testifies of truth. "No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost". Note it doesn't say anything about bible study, or entering seminaries etc.

I wonder about the type of God the evangelicals imagine they are worshipping. Someone who is going to send a whole group of people to hell just for sincerely following their understanding of the Saviour's teachings sounds like a pretty unkind and merciless God to me. No wonder so many of you manifest similar attributes.

Interesting that the LDS doctrine doesn't teach anything like it, instead we teach the vast majority of people will eventually receive a glorious reward.

I look forward to lots of replies from you guys pointing out where I have erred, how I'm going to hell and telling me what I REALLY believe in your usual Christlike manner!!

I think with this we should pray for this person who has walked away from the life of Homosexuality. The fact that he is reaching for Christ is important but then we must always pray that he sees the truth. A path of faith is not always easy and I think as Christians we should understand this because we all get mislead at times. Rather then judgement more then anything we should pray that God leads Glatze away from the Mormans and toward the right church. There is hope in that he realizes Christ is essential in his life and that he must live his life according to the Gospel. He just does not understand the theology well enough to walk that path alone. It is our responsibility to reach out to him.

I'm a'hopin' that Mitt Romney is a'readin' this fine, true-Christian website to find out what all y'all think of him and his vile, Mormon-heretic lifestyle!

The editorial does bring up a good point though. If Mitt Romney were to face off against Hillary Clinton (or Barack Obama) next year, what should Christians do? Vote against the Mormon, against the liberal, or just simply not vote?

I think we need to keep in mind that the "Christian Post" is just one publication with its own constituents and does not represent the larger Christian subculture. It tends to be much more conservative than many Christians. I don't think it is worthwhile to spend all this time talking about it.

And Gareth, as a Christian I agree with much of what you say.I'm a strong believer in ecumenism and one of my favorite events all year is the Inter-Faith Thanksgiving Service in my community, where we can all gather in God's name and pray together regardless of our specific theologies. I believe that is how God wants it.

Other articles suggest that Glatze's experience with the LDS church was only a mistep in his "journey" and that he is privately exploring orthodoxy with help from other Christians.

Josh, here's a novel idea: how about vote for the one that you think would do the best job in leading this country? Millions of Christians voted for GWB because they liked the way he used Christian language. Look where that got us.

Don, I must first say that I know relatively little about your brand of faith although I plan to seek more info on it. Also, I regret that some of my brothers here have used this space to try to force a conversion on you. That is never the way.

The Lord certainly did make provision for everyone to know him. Christianity is meant to spread through relationships with one another. Love is the center of the gospel. The scriptures are the foundation however and should be taken literally. There is actually quite a bit of evidence the bible has remained basically unchanged since it was first written. Your view of God seems to weaken his ability to keep error from entering His word.

I must implore you to think open-mindedly and critically of your beliefs and what the Bible actually says. We evangelicals don't claim to know whom God will judge wicked beyond what is in His word.

By the way, God deffinalty does still speek, but He never contradicts what He has already said.

To believe in the tenets of Mormonism is to violate the first commandment (of the Ten), since Mormons do not worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Sexual sin is not mentioned in the list of Ten until further down (the order of the Ten presumably shows the priority of concern). To show preference to Mormons rather than to 'sinners' (you know, the kind of people Jesus hung out with) is to say that we like people who look, act, and think like us more than we like the people who Jesus came to save.

The Christian I was at 11 is not the one I was at 21, 31, 41 or, now, 51. At each of those ages, I would have told you I was saved, but from the vantage point of 51 I would say I wasn't -- or at least I didn't really understand what it meant to be a disciple of Christ. At age 61, I expect I will think similarly about 51.

And, so it is, I describe this man's experience as my own. As a child, I turned my eyes toward Jesus and, through wrong step and right step, I never took my eyes off Him. The Christian this man is now will, Lord willing, be only a pale reflection of the one he will become.

Let us rejoice he has turned his eyes toward Jesus. Let us pray that Jesus will lead him on the right path. Let us hope that we all are similarly blessed and that when we stand before Judgment we will be Christians acceptable and worthy.

What is it about 'mainstream' Christianity that it feels it has a monopoly over all things spiritual? How can you deny or question the spiritual experiences of others, yet expect them to take your own at face value? I'm Mormon, I feel the Spirit of Christ, and I firmly believe that others outside of my faith can do the same. I derive my faith from the Bible as you do, though we may differ in intepretations. I have a healthy, personal relationship with the Savior, and I find it repulsive when other Christians try to deprive me of that relationship. It's not your gift to give!

jesus came to save the vile sinners, he also said"i have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. i must bring them also. they too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd." john10:!6
there is only one Lord, one way, and ALL must go through him alike. democrats, republicans, mormons, christians, homosexuals, heterosexuals, losers, winners . who's to judge who. love one another and pray for the lost to find jesus.

I just read the editorial that this post is talking about on the Christian Post and it seems they added a clarification at the bottom. The focus of the editorial is that this man was seeking Christ and realizing that he was sinning. Yet it never endorsed the Mormon Church. It does fact say that him going into the Mormon Church has its eternal consequence. I think people should read the whole editorial first before they make the judgment of saying that it is an edorsement. As our responsibility as Christians we should reach out to people like Glatze to guide them away from such mistakes. It is not uncommon for people who are new in the Christian faith to become easily misguided. It is our responsibility to shepherd them and our fault when we allow these things to occur knowingly around us. Just as the book of James states Faith is not faith without deeds. So to reflect the Love of God that we were given and the convictions that we claim we should be active in sharing this love and guiding the lost and young toward Christ and our father with a tense heart. We were not asked to save them but we have been given the responsibility.

The conclusion is I think someone who is reaching to Christ so earnestly is more likely to have open ears to the truth. This alone is a miracle of God that he worked to open this man’s heart and mind to receive the truth. We have to be the Christians that act like Philip in Acts 8:26 when he met the Ethiopian eunuch. Not to criticize but I believe that God is at work and in the end his glory will be revealed.

My thinking is that if you're unhappy with being gay, it's probably much wiser to seek therapy to help you become a happy gay man, rather than try to be a happy ex-gay man...if for no other reason than "gay" makes life a little more interesting.

However, if you think you're towards the right side the Kinsey scale...maybe the latter might work for you...but...don't expect every gay man to do the same.

If your religion demands that you not be gay, or at the least, be celibate for your lifetime: I would demand to know what that religion explicitly speaks about, it's history of, what it today acts consistently upon: loving justice, mercy, charity, kindness, the Golden Rule...slavery, women's rights, human dignity, the rule of law, democracy, equality.

Interesting, when I tried to post the first time, I got a sort of malicious posting message, so I softened my post. Now they're both up. Oh well, argue, please, with the first.

By the way, I grew up in a a quite conservative Christian family, with The Church as an extension of our house. I'm quite grateful for that.

I also went to a small university in the Bible Belt...an eyeopening experience on what conservative and conservatism means in everyday practice. I was unimpressed.

Speaking of the Ten Commandments...and slavery, the Tenth (and Fourth) does seem to, as antebellum pro-slavery theologians had pointed out, prove that God condones slavery.

Not to mention treating wives as if they were property like slaves, livestock and goods, though of higher value. Come to think of it, the Bible, in most books, seems to treat wives as perishable delicacies. If they get despoiled, they get destroyed.

Galatians 1:8,9 says all Mormons are accursed of God (look it up). God said it, I believe it, and it's so!!

To: MANAEN, DON, GARETH, and MORGAN. TOUCHEE! BRAVO! AMEN! And BTW, Morgan, when they are attacking and judging and damning you, you're not dealing with "mainstream" Christians--you're dealing with Christendom's equivalent of the Taliban. "Believe as I do or burn in hell, infidel!" (Ahem! Are you listening, Jon?)

To: 'Anon' (VERY committed, BTW, not even to use your name. Try reading Rom 1:16 and 2 Tim 1:8) How, exactly, do you know YOU"RE not the one being led by Satan? Did God reveal that to you directly? So, what you're saying is that you're depending on your own 'experience?' If so, then why can't you allow Mormons to claim the same blessing of spiritual guidance? "If you based it on the Bible," you really want to get a handle on what sorts of things the Bible REALLY says, before you try to explain away things like the baptism for the dead that Paul mentions offhandedly as an obvious proof of the resurrection, or why Jesus said "Ye shall be gods," or what Romans, chapter 8 means when it says we will be "heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ." And how about explaining how your triune Constantinian god is able to be in the water getting baptized AND speaking from heaven AND descending down like a dove to light on himself, all at once. Or why Jesus would pray to himself for strength, or how does he submit his own will to his own (huh?), as in "...not MY will, but THINE be done."

To Ben: If all scripture is to be taken literally, then who exactly were those people Jesus taught about in His parables. If they were just examples, then it's not literal. Where do the scriptures say they must be taken literally in every instance? And how about that bit where Satan goes to Heaven to complain about Job. Is Satan really allowed to come and go in Heaven as he pleases? Do you really believe that a woman actually talked --Dr. Doolittle-like-- to a Satan-possesed snake. (So much for literalism.)

The fact that God respects the freedom of choice that He Himself gave to His children does not at all limit or 'weaken' Him, it simply allows humans the freedom to create the sort of mess of heretical doctrines that were rife in early Christianity, and that prompted the apostle Paul to declare that Jesus would not return until after there had been a general apostacy and restoration. In fact you could say it demonstrates that God is secure enough that He doesn't need to force Himself on people. Let the wheat grow together with the tares. And, by the way, there's plenty of evidence that even 'the faithful' have been mucking about with the scriptures, editing them according their own preconcieved ideas. Try 'googling' and reading up on the Deuteronomic reform.

Ben, "I must implore you to think open-mindedly and critically of your beliefs and what the Bible actually says." I can understand that some of what the LDS Chruch has to say sounds foreign to you. But I must implore YOU to study some of the papers published at www.fairlds.org before you slam shut the shutters of your God-given intelligence. If you really know what's there and then can't agree, fine. But to mindlessly parrot back the party-line of half truths and misinformation that you heard or read somewhere is to disdain the gift of intelligence that God gave you. Prove all things, hold fast to what is good.

By their fruits ye shall know them. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. I don't sense a whole lot of love, charity, meekness, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness or temperance in a lot of what I saw in this forum.

Call me crazy, but I think Christian Post has a good point. Although for Glatze joining the Mormon church is BY FAR worse than returning to homosexuality, for the U.S. as whole, his returning to homosexuality may be worse because of the large numbers of people that could influence. His return to homosexuality would be cited by pro-gay individuals as evidence that people are born homosexual and that nothing can be done about it. And the name of God could be blasphemed because people could argue that (1) God had created him as gay and/or (2) God couldn't change him. But if he stays straight but ends up joining the Mormon ''church,'' I don't believe that homosexuals who want to change would end up seeing the Mormon ''church'' as being the better/best place to change, as opposed to evangelical churches. I want to hear what everyone thinks about this. Or am I just crazy? (and don't misunderstand me; I am not homophobic; I love homosexuals as I do any other person, but I do affirm that homosexuality is a sin and feel the manipulation of Scriptures to justify it reflects a more serious problem within a number of churches - in particular the Episcopal Church and the UCC)

Brad does bring up a good point. The newspaper did make the statement in a way that was directed specifically at one individual (Glatze) and not to ex-gays in general - or gays in general, for that matter. And based on the newspaper's clarification, it seems that they do believe Mormonism is "more perverse" than homosexuality, but that in Glatze's case a return to the latter could have more detrimental and far-reaching effects (as Brad just argued) than the former.

>Another sign that Evangelicals are more worried about sex than a
>person's relationship with Jesus?

"a person's relationship with Jesus" goes like this: *Repenting* of sin, turning *away* from sin, turning toward the cross. Then, freed of slavery to sin by Jesus (who has absorbed the just, righteous wrath of God in our stead if we are joined to Him by faith), continuing to fight and shun remaining indwelling sin for the rest of our lives.

So there is no "relationship with Jesus" that is somehow compartmentalized and separate from sin issues.

Christian, I love satire, but I think Betty Bowers site will go-over-the-heads of most fundamentalists. Another very humourous look at fundamentalist "Christians" is http://www.landoverbaptist.org

On this month's edition, you'll find out how to register your children for "Vacation Bible Gun Camp" and a whole section on Harry Potter and how to have your church organize a "Harry Potter Book Burning" (yes, folks, real fundamentalist "churches" do have them). So, sometimes humor doesn't fall very far from the tree.

Enjoy the read. I do!

Cheers, from England.

We read a news story and assume so much...he is on a journey toward Jesus, hopefully, and toward wholeness and restoration if the Father has His way. Can't we simply celebrate his attempt to find a path that he feels better lines up with God's instructions for life?

Jesus dudn't like the heretic-lifestyle anymore than he does the homosexual-lifestyle. I'm sorry, Bro. Slazer, there ain't nothin' to celebrate 'bout jumpin' from the pan raight into the fire! That young man needs to git raight with the Lord...and that dudn't mean hangin' out at an accursed "church" (Galatians 1:8,9).

Yeah, that's true. But the thing is Glatze is looking into different evangelical churches right now. So while he did go into "the fire", he hasn't made any statement saying that that is where he will be staying. Actually he's said the opposite. And he appears to be making an effort to walk the correct path. If he was committed to the Mormon church, that would be a problem. But he's actually been emphasizing a lot that he's still in the searching process and that the Mormon church was only one stop in his journey, not the final stop. I think we should help the guy get to the right path by encouraging him rather than criticizing him. By criticizing him, I think that might only discourage him from joining an evangelical church.

Bro. Jeff, I like the idea of playing "nice-nice" with the Unsaved. Let's not ruffle too many feathers or offend anyone. Your strategy could work. But keep in mind, in the past 24 hours while you were playing "nice-nice", Jesus has had to send HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people to hell because they didn't get saved! Sure, they got their for different reasons: heathenism (Muslims), idolatry (Catholics, Buddhists), homosexuality, heresy (Mormons, JWs) or countless other sins... but it really doesn't matter how they got there, now does it?!? I think a much better idea is to warn the Unsaved in no uncertain terms. If a person is racing toward a cliff, you don't whisper they're going in the wrong direct...YOU...SHOUT...IT!!!! But, Bro. Jeff, let us know how your "nice-nice" strategy is working out. I'm curious to see how many souls you won-for-Jesus in the past year.

Signed,
Sister Connie Faye Lumpkin
Fort Smith, Ark

Apparently from these comments one of the ways that some Evangelical Christians have perverted Christ's gospel is that they believe a man repenting of homosexual behavior is less important to his ultimate salvation than which brand of Christianity has been instrumental in helping him do it. This viewpoint seems to come from the same people who believe they are saved solely through a single declaration of faith in Christ, without the need for any works on their part, including after the point in time when they are saved. I have been told by friends who belong to that particular brand of Christianity that a man who declares his faith in Jesus will be saved even if he then goes out the door and commits rape and murder, while a little old lady who has never violated any of the Ten Commandments but has lived all her life as a Catholic is going to burn for an infinite period of time in hell. Among those Christians are ones who specifically affirm that God chose to make the man announce his faith and thus be saived, while God apparently doesn't like something about the old lady and could care less about her condition.

Personally, I find that approach to salvation a far cry from the Biblical Jesus who condemned hypocrites who talked one way and lived another, the Jesus who said that many would call Him Lord but only those who did the will of God would be saved, the Jesus who preached the Sermon on the Mount and called on us to be forgiving, meek, and pure in heart.

There is a contradiction at the core of the viewpoint that salvation is available on the cheap, through five minutes of affirmation at a meeting, but that anyone who has made an affirmation of faith in Christ, but believes he then is expected by Jesus to try to live up to Christ's commandments, is somehow going to hell because he is trying to be good instead of taking the attitude that it doesn't matter whether he is good or not. Evangelicals weho claim to believe in grace and salvation totally without works are hypocrites when they claim that other Christians who add good works to their faith are somehow failing to qualify for salvation. How is it that being a thief can't spoil your ticket to heaven, but loving your neighbor can?

At bottom, that brand of Evangelical Christianity that claims a low threshold of salvation for itself but makes up all sorts of additional requirements for other believers in Christ to get to heaven sounds more like the Pharisees than the disciples of Jesus Christ.

The claim that somehow the low threshold of salvation doesn't work for Mormons or Catholics or Orthodox Christians because they "don't believe in the Jesus of the Bible" is just another lie. If your only religious authority is derived from reading the Bible, everyone who also reads it is just as qualified as you to interpret it, especially when you renounce reliance on the Holy Spirit as a guide to understanding scripture. This brand of exclusivist, but hypocritically easy on itself Christianity is an innovation of the last two hundred years. "Cheap grace" was not what Christ, Peter or Paul preached. According to "cheap gracers" people weren't really saved until they figured out this formula two hundred years ago about how to be saved while rejecting repentance and righteousness.

With respect to Mormons and their worship of Christ, I spent an hour yesterday in a "Mormon" Sunday School teaching about Christ's resurrection, with the members of the class reading from the Gospels. This year we are studying the New Testament, just as last year we studied the Old. Next year when we study the Book of Mormon (on a recurring cycle) we will read thousands of verses that talk about Christ and his indispensable role as both Jehovah, the creator of the earth, and as Jesus Christ, our Savior. People who are aware the Book of Mormon talks about Christ claim Joseph Smith "plagiarized" the Bible, which is like saying Matthew and Luke "plagiarized" Mark.

During a typical Sunday, Mormons meet for three hours in a series of meetings. The first hour is everyone together, opening with praqyer to the Father in the name of Jesus. After the congregation sings a hymn about the atonement performed by Christ, the priests will bless the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper, asking Heavenly Father to bless the bread so that those who eat it will remember the Son of God, renew their promise to keep Christ's commandments, and always remember Christ. There will be several talks given by members of the congregation that are just as Bible-based as anything you will hear in Southern Baptist worship service, and each speaker will end his or talk "In the name of Jesus Christ" and the congregation will say "Amen." The benedictory prayer will be to the Father in the name of Christ. The only time Joseph Smith is mentioned in a prayer is in the same way that Peter, Paul or John are mentioned, as a prophet and apostle of Chrtist. Mormons do not pray to Joseph Smith or in his name.

During the second hour we break up into classes by age group. In the third hour, the men and women age 12 and above attend meetings for either teenagers or adults, by gender, where they plan service projects and have further discussion of the gospel of Christ. All meetings begin and end with prayer to the Father in the name of Christ. The lessons are ended by invoking the name of Christ, with a congregational "Amen."

Mormons honor the Bible, and believe in it, much more literally than many Christians. Mormons believe Christ was literally resurrected. Joseph Smith's entire mission was to reaffirm the reality of what so many Episcopalians and Presbyterians of our day say is just figurative or mythical. The entire charismatic movement is based on the desire to recapture in the modern churches the working of the Holy Ghost with its spiritual gifts that is manifestly the way the Christian church worked as described in the Bible. Mormons believe they have done so. To Mormons, saying you can tell what the Bible means solely based on human reason and education, without the enlightenment of the Holy Ghost, is a manifestation of pride that excludes the Spirit of the Lord from your life and teaching. The Bible is not the source of God's words, but a transcript of them. Nothing in the Bible says that the omnipotent God has somehow lost His voice. If you believe that Christ's Second Coming is a real event, foretold in prophecy by Christ and John and Zechariah and Isaiah, then you should understand that we are living in the same reality in which the Bible's miracles and prophecies occurred and its teachings received and written down by flesh and blood prophets called by God. Sadly, there are so many Christians who would rather reject all new prophets from God rather than have the burden of sorting out the true from the false. They are manifesting the same fear that the Pharisees had when confronted by John the Baptist, and Christ, and Peter and John. They rejected Jesus precisely because He was offering them new revelation directly from God, and proving His authority by miracles. When Jesus comes again, if He says something that is not already written in the Bible, are you going to reject Him too, and insist that God cannot speak new things?

Perhaps those who say Mormons worship a different Christ than they do are correct, since their Jesus is not the omnipotent God of the Bible, but a limited God who can only say what modern men allow Him to say.

Finally, think about this: Mormons have no paid clergy. at the level of the congregation and the region, no one gets paid for teaching and leading in the Church. You Christians who criticize the Mormons, ask yourselves if you and your fellow congregants have enough faith to be able to do that simple thing, to operate an entire church of millions of members with thousands of congregations with volunteers who do not have years of Bible college training but only their reading of scripture with the guidance of the Holy Ghost?

Sister Connie Faye Bumpkin,

Did it ever occur to you that humility is a virtue? Your attitude is an example of what keeps many people out of the church. Do a thought experiment: how many folks you know might have been completely turned off to Christianity because of the way you presented it to them? In your logic, you helped to cause their eternal damnation. Sleep well tonight!

Wow, the comments here have really gotten bad. There are misrepresentations and false accusations spoken in condescending and defensive tones. One problem that seems pervasive is that no "side" seems to understand the other "side" very well. We should all go and study up on what being "Mormon" or "Christian" really means, because I see a lot of misrepresentations going on.

I will also say that it seems "Christianity" is to broad a word. The world would lump everything from the most liberal "works gospel" follower in with the most legalistic fundamentalist. Some would even included heretical offshoots like CLDS and JW's.

BTW, here is an interesting and informative article on the Mormon faith I found for the Mainstreamers among us. I would be interested to see what a Mormon would say to this article but I will not be back on this site to find out due to the degradation of the conversation. http://www.probe.org/cults-and-world-religions/cults-and-world-religions/mormon-beliefs-about-prophecy-heavenand-celestial-marriage.html

Being Gay isn't a sin, it is acting upon those feelings that is. Sexual relations as reserved for marrage, Marriage is between a one man and one women. Not man and man, or women or women. You can be gay and never act on those feelings and be a mormon. Forinication is a serious sin, is wrong where you are attracted to the oppisite sex or the same sex. People are born alot of different way, but that has never been a good enough excuse to let that be a crutch to making bad decision.

To "I like to hit the enter button a million times Mike",
The Bible doesn't agree with your rant in a couple of places. First off, you can't be a Mormon. God in Galatians 1:8,9 calls anyone that preaches ANY OTHER GOSPEL UNTO YOU, INCLUDING AN ANGEL (e.g.: Maroni)...ACCURSED. So, any heretic, according to the Word, is accursed. Some Christians may say that's being too harsh, but I'm just reading what the Bible says. If the Bible offends you, you're on the wrong forum.

Secondly, Jesus said that if a man looks lustfully on a woman, he has committed sin in his heart already (Matthew 5:28). I think the same principle applies to those that are homosexual, but never OFFICIALLY act on those feeling. HOWEVER, if they continue to lust in their hearts after members of the same sex, but never "do it", THAT PERSON STILL HAS COMMITTED THE SIN OF HOMOSEXUALITY. I think the only real, lasting answer can be found in Matthew 19:12. That passage says (Jesus speaking), "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Don't judge anyone.

Dear Lukewarm Margaret, thanks for your 2-cents worth. (So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Revelations 3:16).

Dear Judging Wanda, thanks for *your* two cents' worth. (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)

Titus 3:10
A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject.

Now to determine if someone (e.g.: Mormon) is a heretic, I need to DETERMINE or JUDGE that what they say is heresy. I am to admonition him once and then a second time. After that, I am to JUDGE him as a heretic and then to REJECT that person. That's what the Bible CLEARLY says.

Now, I realize that today's cafeteria/lukewarm Christians don't like to hear the Word (beyond John 3:16 and "Judge not, lest ye be judged"), but to call yourself a Bible-believing Christian, you got to believe AND FOLLOW the WHOLE Bible, not just a handful of feel-good parts.

It's time to layoff the spiritual Jell-o and have some spiritual meat!

to Don- while don't doubt your sincerity at all - the mormon bible has many differences from the bible evangelicals read- you may want to try reading them both- and i am not only refering to the book of mormon-

to margaret- paul says in corinthians we are not to judge those outside the church that is for God alone to do, but we are to judge those in the church according to the standards God has set- example immorality- and we should probably not be caddy to each other if we are to be like Christ- that is for wanda as well

I am not religious although I believe in a number of core values of the many different (and differing) religions in the world. Question: If homosexuality is "wrong" or a "sin" or "against nature", how is it that, given homosexuals do not procreate, they continue to manifest themselves:
in every civilization
in every age
on every continent
in every country
in every city, town, and village
among all extended families
within all socioeconomic groups
among all religions
among agnostics and atheists
and, p.s. among all 1200 animal species recently studied (except two)
The answer will appear when you are ready.

Um... let me gett his straight...

AFTER his conversion to Morman, The publication said, "Glatze should be accepted for who he is".

But BEFORE his conversion to Morman, he should not accepted at all????

I agree with Amanda above. Gays are:
in every civilization
in every age
on every continent
in every country
in every city, town, and village
among all extended families
within all socioeconomic groups
among all religions
among agnostics and atheists
and, p.s. among all 1200 animal species recently studied (except two)

Religious people of all kinds are stone age thinkers! Reality has no place in religious teachings! As a result, all religious teachings will continue to bend, change, alter, be rewritten, and discarded once too much evidence overwhelms their rediculous beliefs. And eventualy, like the dinosaurs, it will all go away! Homosexuality is a part of nature, obviously not a part of the millions upon millions of gods we create, but definately a part of nature!

believers to open the eyes of others like him and to lead them out of the homosexual lifestyle into a more godly one.Homosexuality is a part of nature.A man that believe in it, much more literally than many Christians.

http://www.christian-drug-rehab.org

All Evangelicals are going to Hell because they do not believe the way I do. I know Jesus and they do not.

haha..very funny Jim. I sure hope you were trying to be funny. At first I also thought Sister Connie Faye Lumpkin was trying to be funny then realized that she wasn't. I think some of the commenters here would have enjoyed the Spanish Inquisition.

An AntiChrist is someone who will seek to set himself up as Christ. He will appear to be like Christ but he will teach the people to leave Christ. When we claim to be disciples of Christ but use his name to spread the Satanic message of hatred we have become AntiChrists. To call someone a "heretic" simply because their understanding of the Bible and Christ does not line up perfectly with our understanding, is what a pharisee would do, not Christ. Let us not forget to first cast out the beams from our own eyes.

If you read this young man's story, http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56487, you'll find a person who has deep faith in Christ. His faith in Christ is reflected in the change that he has made and it seems very apparent to me that he was guided by the Holy Spirit to the realization that he was living in sin.

The homosexual community says that it is impossible to overcome homosexuality. I say, without Christ, it is impossible, but with Christ all things are possible. This man appears to have accepted Christ as his Savior and found freedom from sin through Christ. Who are we to declare unclean that which Christ has made clean.

Jesus warned his followers not to "store up for yourselves treasures on Earth," and later cautioned that it will be "hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven." Perhaps the best known is the admonition that "the love of money is the root of all evil."
============================
rosy
http://www.christian-drug-rehab.org

California will become only the second U.S. state to allow gay and lesbian couples to tie the knot after the state’s Supreme Court on Thursday (May 15) overturned a voter referendum that had banned same-sex marriages. Twenty-three gay and lesbian couples had filed suit to challenge a 1977 law and the 2000 referendum that defined marriage as between a man and a woman. In a 4-3 decision, the court ruled that barring gay couples from marriage violates the “fundamental constitutional right to form a family relationship.Writing for the majority, Chief Justice Ronald George said opening marriage to same-sex couples “will not deprive opposite-sex couples of any rights and will not alter the legal framework of the institution of marriage.
-------------------------
mike11

arkansas drug rehab

why don't Christians stop pretending to deeply know the Mormon religion and its faults and instead try to prove why their beliefs are right...i have been to a couple of christian churches, and when the people find out i'm mormon they start TRYING to trash my religion instead of speaking about what they believe. That would be alot more convincing instead of trying to tell me my relationship is with the wrong Jesus because of a missed punctuation in line 34 of page 142 or some other ridiculous argument.

First of all, both are not Biblically not justified and both are considered lost in front of God. So, where's the question of being better or not. This post is unbecoming of CTblog. :(

I wonder how many people making comments against the mormon church have actually been to a mormon church service??? How many of you have actually tried to see things from a Mormon's point of view??? I wouldbe willing to bet very few if ANY. You just believe whatever your minister tells you to believe...thats just sad. Tell me....where in the Bible does Jesus get paid to share the good word??? Where in the Bible does it tell you that all you have to do is go to college to be qualified to be a representative of Jesus Christ and have the authority to act in his name??? I actually believe it says the very opposite. You may be right....Mormons might actually believe in a different JEsus....we believe in the one who is loving and kind and speaks no ill of anyone but rather teaches through love. If your minister or church uses its title as a "christian religion" to teach hateful things against another group, than YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. A Christian is someone who follows Jesus' teachings and example. Where does your minister get his authority to represent the LORD JESUS CHRIST??? You would think that that is a very heavy responsibility right??? SO you really think that Christ is happy with the fact that just about anyone who wants to can go to college, get a degree and then start his own church and preach whatever he wants??? Thats not how it works. The Jesus the Mormons believe in is the correct Jesus and I dont care what your false preacher says. I dont care what anti mormon books you get your info from and I dont care that you lack such an inderstanding of the Bible that you are unable to think for yourselves and figure things out on your own without having a preacher tell you what it all means. Get over yourselves because everything you say about Mormons can be said about your faith also