Comments

YES!

Nice.

Yes? Nice? Are you kidding? I have absolutely no respect for these ministries, but this type of governmental intrusion, from a CONSERVATIVE? no less, is very troubling.

Dear Sir:

I welcome the Committee's investigation of the questionable ministries.I have paintufl experience that abusive clergies are nore than cruel mobsters. When I, as the chairman of the Board, opposed the pastor Won Tae Cha's proposl to use the Building Trust Fund for other than the pledged, he sued our family three times with his gangs, abusing the church money. Falsely accusing our family as murder supect and was on criminal trial. But the Bihop Jereminah Park is in this gang, ruined our family. I welcome civil authorities investiagtrion on the dishonest clergies. I want to testify against them before the committee. God bless the committee. cs

It's hard for the government to walk the tightrope in this area. On one hand, the 1st Amendment restricts its right to interfere in religious matters, but on the other hand, the government has a legitimate right to scrutinize financial shenanigans of charlatans who seek to cloister themselves behind the protective veil of the Constitution. It's truly a delicate balance and each case has to be judged on its own merits. Even though they are foolish, prospertiy beliefs are deeply held by certain religious folks, so they would undoubtedly pass muster in that regard in contrast to, say, a pothead who said that smoking dope is a sacrament of his religion. I disagreed vehemently, however, with the Supreme Court's ruling in the Indian peyote case because partaking of that hallucinogen apparently really is a sacrament to certain Native Americans. So, whilst I lean toward a hands-off approach, there are instances where the government might have a legitimate, compelling interest in quelling financial abuses by "churches" who line their pockets, buy their jets and big homes, and gallavant around the world without having to pay Uncle Sam a percentage of their ill-gotten gain.

Give it a rest! Conservative christians hold so much power in the government.

It's not an intrusion. It's the LAW and apparently christians haven't been able to keep these peoples greed under control.

Nobody is telling you what you can believe, who you can give your money to, or how you can share your beliefs. They just don't want to pay for it!

So I guess it's OK for the government to intrude as long as "Conservative Christians" are doing the intrusion...it's funny how many Christians' reaction to government action is dependent upon who is in power rather than upon sound Constitutional principles.

I agree that accountability for these groups is long overdue, but does not the Bible suggest that it should be dealt with by the CHURCH? When the church has become so weak that the government is now carrying out the accountability and the discipline the Bible instructs the church to carry out dark days lie ahead.

So I see this problem as multidimensional...I am troubled by the government's intrusion and it being led by a Conservative, but I am apalled and grieved that the Church lacks the moral and biblical clarity to deal with such heretical ministires. Let me be clear: the church is to blame.

If many of the Christians who gave money to these ministries used biblical discernment, born out of a knowledge of God's word, they would spot a wolf a mile away, stop giving money, and government intrusion would not even be an issue.

I believe these ministries are apalling. They used the church and tax free and used most of the time selling their personal book for personal gain. If they are preaching God given messages, why do they have an advertisement for selling person books and/or interupt God messages with commercial selling prodocts for person gain. They should be required to pay the church for their free advertising like the rest of the world.

I believe these ministries are apalling. They use the church and tax free status while using most of the time to sell their personal books for personal gain. If they are preaching " a God given message", why do they have advertisements for selling personal books and/or interrupt "God messages" with commercials selling products for personal gain. They should be required to pay the "church" for their free advertising like the rest of the world. One program went as follows: 13 mins advertising book, etc., a 2 minute song, 7 min sermon and 7 more selling personal books. Most have an add running across the bottom of the screen the whole message advertising personal products the whole time and distract from the "God Anointed Message". You certainly can't listen while reading their adds.

Way back in the 1980s the California AG investigated the World Wide Church of God. The outcry from conservatives was huge, and deservedly so. We didn't agree with the WWC of God, but we understood that the power to investigate can be used on any church tomorrow. As a result, California radically altered the laws governing non-profits to protect churches from governmental intervention.

My point is that today even conservatives are willing to cede power to the government. Moneychangers are no more plentiful today than they were at any point in history. People will give their money to whom they want, unless the government says they can't or shouldn't. Do we really want the government telling us where we should and should not give money?

I rejoiced when I left California for life in a less regulated part of the country. Wouldn't the joke be on me if the Feds began to regulate my church more than California ever thought about?

While he's at it, Sen Grassley ought to check out the thin "non-endorsement" endorsements of politicians by megachurch pastors, like last Sunday's thumbs-up for Huckabee by Prestonwood Baptist's Jack Graham. Huckabee may well have preached a biblical message instead of giving a stump speech, but Graham certainly crossed the line--left no one guessing he was shilling for this candidate.

God's Word teaches that He wants His people blessed. Barely getting by does not glorify the Father. No where in His Word does He say that His people should be poor. God believes in prosperity. The original hebrew language paints a much more accurate portrait of God's Will for His people than the English translations ever could. The Old Testament states many cases of covenant people being richly blessed by the Father. He wants the blessings to flow through His people to others in need..."blessed to be a blessing". He does not want greed to become the motivation..."you cannot serve 2 masters". The balance must be maintained between receiving God's abundant provision and passing them on...and that can only be done by hearkening (hearing and doing) what God's Word says to do. These pastors will come through this trial without being scorched, for God will always deliver those who are obedient to Him.

Oh Bonnie,
You have been so deceived. I can just hear you parroting the talking points. Where does a theology of the cross or of suffering fit into all of this? Better yet, what is a starving, persecuted Christian in Sudan to think...if only I had more faith, God would have blessed me rather than allowed my home to be burned and my children taken into slavery!

While we're on it, where did you study Hebrew? Or are you just taking on faith that the Hebrew is more clear about the truth's of the prosperity (non)gospel?

If my ministry took in $100million, I gave $90million to feed and clothe and deliver the gospel to distant corners to which I needed a jet to get there, and my entire operation paid the bills and the salaries with the remaining $10million, why is that a problem. Mr. J.C.Penney gave 90% of his take on the store he built and lived off the remaining 10% out of which he may have paid a personal servant staff.

Considering either scenario, what do you want? Consider the parable of the workers hired at different points in the day and each was paid the same. The moral of the parable is "Who are you to criticize the owner of the field. It's his business."

God felt so strongly about jealousy, it's right in there with murder and theft --- see Ten Commandments.

How Satan laughs at the children of God backbiting each other. Suck it up and shut up.

Are we forgetting about the congregration. How many of them are living this type life style? Look around in your churches--How many people own a home? How many people are living pay check to pay check and continue to give? I'm all for Pastors that are doing the right thing with the money that has been given to their churches. I give but we must be wise with what God has given us. Just because people have titles and work in the church does not mean that they will not sin against God. We really need to see God and seek his guidance in giving. There are so many people out here that do the Lord's work and do not get paid like (missionaries). I wonder how many of these Pastors will still continue to do the Lord's work (preach) if the money was to stop tomorrow. It's ok anyway God will show who is the wolfe and who is his sheep.

In reply to,

How Satan laughs at the children of God backbiting each other. Suck it up and shut up.>

This message to christians ( or those christians who should know better ) is a very strong message.........

But is it a godly message.

Is not God a jealous God?

God felt so strongly about jealousy .... so accidentally,

the contributor is correct ... up to now!

Is all of this message also for God who does not change?

Is what God gets jealous about the same issue that some judged christians are judged to be jealous about ...righteousness?

Have those who are righteous, or to put it less contraversially,
have those who profess to do that which is righteous, anything to fear?

And on the issue of monetory wealth have those churches who love the opportunity of tax exemption from a government anything to fear from that government?

Things in the last days could be much much worse.

Praise the Lord things for christians are not yet much much worse,

seekthelord

How about Joel Osteen?

I think we could object to governmental intrusion if we truly had separation of church and state, but the church doesn't want this separation. The church enjoys special state treatment in the form of tax exemptions and tax deductible donations. Churches and other charitable organizations abuse this favorable treatment routinely by using the organizations assets for personal gain or personal pleasure. Extravagant abuse, which is the focus of Grassley's investigation, is perhaps not routine because most lack the opportunity for such abuse. Our culture has accepted this abuse because we enjoy a "Christian" advantage. We are going to find this favorable treatment less advantageous as Islam and Eastern Religions begin to take advantage of the same treatment in great numbers. Further, to imagine that the "church" can police itself in this area is folly. So, I would propose (1) eliminate all favorable tax treatment and (2) require all organizations who solicit money from citizens to fully open their books. What do we have to hide?

The real tragety in all of this is that the family of God has been asleep at the wheel of biblical descernment for a very long time and as such should have held these "Tele-Evangelists" accountable. As a consequence of not being salt & light, even within the community of faith, the federal government takes it upon themselves to do what the faithful chose not to do. Thus fleecing of the flock by those who have seen the gospel as a means of profit are recognized by those outside the church to be what they truely are; Preachers of another gospel and we know what the Apostle Paul had to say about such individuals in his Epistle to the Galatians, they are anathema, cursed. Seems as though some have forgotten the Jim & Tammy affair and did not learn the lessons that it should have provided.

Why do people open their big mouths with nasty opinions before they even investigate? Just go look on the websites of these ministries and really read EVERYTHING. At least one of them (maybe more) owns and operates 3 orphanages and childrens homes. It also has the top 8 attorney's in the US comb through it's financial records on a routine basis. There is enough evidence there if you read and watch and listen.... there's really more to it than just OPINION!!!! From one who hears and sees much, much more than you could ever know.....

Dan, attorneys are advocates, even if they are in some mythical "top 8." By contrast, auditors are not advocates and are unbiased (at least post-Enron) and publish their findings, whereas attorneys must keep mum about wrongdoing because of the sacrosanct atttorney-client privilege. You need to understand these basic principles before employing the same deceptive arguments used by these "ministries."

If all we have to do is give you money, oh no then have faith, oh no then pray enough, oh no the go to church, oh no then join a church, then oh no then read enough, then oh no speak it into existence, then oh no, stay positive, then oh no give more than a tithe, then, oh no love more...........give more......have more faith....always jumping through hoops as to why your not rich or prosperous...always..always us..well if i had an infallible product, that no matter who used it or how, if they did not get results, the problem was the user, never the product, and then i could hide behind the name of the product to shield anyone from knowing how much i made off the product...i would be rich too!!!

I do believe none of you would have tried this during slavery,( to blacks) or during colonization and suppression in Ireland, (To whites) same book though, but you would have never suggested people could get rich on faith, prosperous maybe, because that is a spiritual matter and a state of mind, you people have prostituted God like a $2.00 PIMP, and its slimy.

not one of you would have what you have by faith in the real world, Jets, Bentley's, people just giving you money, with no taxes, no accountabilty and if we the flock, have to trust God to have what you have, why cant you?

You know why? because you sit and pontificate the Word as a prosperous tool to justify your own greed, Jesus rode on a donkey, AND NEVER EVER USED MONEY, I CHALLENGE YOU TO SHOW ME WHERE Jesus SPENT MONEY ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE!!!!
Your Gangsters of greed, if you live by faith, give it all to the poor, then watch God give you back ten fold, BUT NONE OF YOU WILL EVER DO THAT!!!! EVER, SO YOU HAVE A CULT ( like ) FOLLOWING WHO WILL DO WHAT YOU SAY BUT REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENS TO THE RICH MAN WHEN IT IS TIME TO GO TO HEAVEN, SOME OF YOU ARE GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL.

I love the Lord and moved across country by faith, lets see you do it? Faith warriors???

I understand the cultist Ole Anthony instigated these attacks. It is disgraceful Grassley didn’t check his source. Grassley/IRS planted over 2000+ Government agents in these Ministries and their congregations last year, which is an egregious abuse of Government power.

We the people, not the Government, are the rightful final arbiters of the financial success or failure of these ministries. These Ministries can only succeed if “we the people” freely choose to give them our money. If we don’t like what these ministries are doing with our money, then we the people can simply stop giving them our money.

We don’t need the Government defining the life style standards of these leaders of our Faith.

It is my opinion that Grassley's attack on these Ministries is the exercise of the established Government sponsored religion because whoever makes and enforces the governing rules for the Church is the final authority of that Church. When the Government enforces their subjective judgments over Church finances, then they become the final authority in the Church and as such have established over-powering Government religion under which all faiths must conform. This is unconstitutional, not to mention immoral.

When I give my money to the Church, then it becomes their money.

Our Constitutional right to the free exercise of religion is abridged when the Government takes upon itself the responsibility to forcibly determine at what point we need to be saved from the Churches we freely choose to support.

...then who is left to save us from the Government?

David said: "Grassley/IRS planted over 2000+ Government agents in these Ministries and their congregations last year, which is an egregious abuse of Government power."

I have not seen this anywhere. Please give a citation, as this would concern me as well, even though I view the prosperity doctrine as heretical.

Dear you scratched the face of the Church. No. It was the face of Christ

Lamenters’ Petition According to the Gospel.

Dear Pastor, seeker and fellow traveler:

Greetings in Jesus Christ.

I am petitioning to you for your intervention into a situation of great injustice taking place in the looting case as well as for the Petitioned written response to this letter for our common good and interest, according to the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ. We should get rid of the criminal elements from the Church.
Please respond if it was not done yet.

RE: Recover the looted Building Trust Fund from the looters
Korean United Methodist Church and Institute
633 West 115h Street, New York, NY 20025

According to information, the Church Paid part of the former Board Chairman’s embezzlement of $70,000 of the Church money and his legal fees. Why it subsidizes the embezzler?

Also the Church paid the legal fees for the six plaintiffs who
took a legal action, demanding $4,000,000 damages, in the name of the Church, against the innocent family which tried to protect the Trust Fund. They usurped the name of the Church for extortion. Eventually the case was sanctioned as frivolous and fined for the contempt court.

At the sanction hearings, the judge ordered that the Church could take action to recover the damages from those who disgraced the Church. But the Church officers did not do anything about the possible recovery. Rather, without any remorse, they laundered the immigrant’s pennies to rewardingly pay even their penalties and attorney fees. Thus, the victory sadly short-lived.

Another case, one plaintiff put the defendant on trial at a full jury with the charges of felony which falsely accused him and his son attempted murders of plaintiff, his family and other Church members. He demanded $4,000,000 extortion. Reverend Won Tae Cha, Mrs. Plaintiff and his underlings come to support the falsely created felony case on the trial, a satanic ritual at best. Paradoxically, the Church paid his legal fees too.

I was pro se for the trial as did not have financial resources.

According to the court records, the Church hierarchies - the bishop, superintendent or pastor – illegally deceived the Judge at an ex parte conference as if it was Church related and confirmed the criminality. However, the bishop refused to name who were at it for the repeatedly written requests to him. What travesty is this?
Another question is still lingering on how the $180,000 building repair contract lost for nothing through related party transactions.

The looting of the fund led this historic Church into a financial and moral bankruptcy –– belief degeneration - for more than a decade that personally benefited which triggered by his mentor who, the pastor said, sent him to this Church.

The New York State Attorney General advised it could recover the abused fund from them. But the trustees did not do it, stating it would be costly for the Church to do so.

The Church officers seemed to have blessed the abusers with attorney fees, cursing the falsely accused. Thus, the looters had the cool lunch with blessings under a comradeship.

Why the Church paid even the abuse-investigation while demonizing the protector of the Church? Needless to say they dumped the Ten Commandments, ambushed the truth in order to make a cool shelter for the looters.

Didn’t they make UMC an illicit outlaw-Church? –. “Robbers’ Den”? (Mt 21:13)

The looting is against the donors’ will.

If the Church officers are not interested in protecting the Church’s interest. How could they expect any further assistance from the civil authorities whom they so heartlessly contempt?

While in discussion of the looting with the Superintendent, the pastor asserted the request for the recovery of the looted fund was “anti-Church” and “anti-Church interest.”

He should have known such assertions had no Jesus cool in contrary to the historical iniquities. For they were defamatory and insult to the Christian community standard under any circumstances. It does not fit to be a pastoral reasoning as if spitting to the pulpit.

Now, those who supported the litigation with false affidavits in a Taliban way against the innocent are still ominously holding saintly positions in the Church.

It appears they could re-enact the violent looting drama of the Building Trust Fund with cool faces without regard the Church rules, the civil authorities. It rewarded them, placing the innocent in the perilous position again as if a noose is on the adversary in order for them to justify the wicked looting. Is the fund open for free cool looting again?

In addition, there appears his pressuring to re-establish elder system as a new power structure in this small congregation. He should have known there are many elder hungry and power starved which could shield his position. It is questionable if the Church could succeed coolly with such questionable human qualities in this morally troubled season.

Remember such ambivalence to the truth could undermine the prestige of the Church hierarchies, the United Methodist Church denomination and the Christian value system. In a sense, the Church leadership seems to be on the way to “God is dead.”

Recently, the Church Council decided that the auditing of the Building Trust Fund should be done by a CPA from the financial transactions of 2000, which could be done effectively without delay, according to the Audit Manual of UMC. Remember the Bible said, “The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.” (1Ti 6:10).

The Bishop appointed him to lead the Church according to the teachings of the Church (Book of Discipline). Why could he not do it right now? Clear the accounting fraud, if any, in good faith!

Our Church history, aged 85, is often falsely glorified to others in contrary to the dark images as the mother Church in the City. Needless to say, the negative image in the recent history is well known to the Korean immigrant community. It is questionable, at this point, any refined rhetoric could convince them otherwise.

Now, it is Biblically clear that they are common liars, embezzlers and, perhaps, the greatest scabs and cancers on the face of Christianity in the twenty first century. The amnesiac Church sadly become a joiner of them, who denied a legal relief for the beaten Samaritans, the defendants.

It is about the time for the ministry to dissect the Jesus injustice and discover the naked truth of the moral and religious iniquities of the leadership and to deliver the amnesiac Church from the cancer, insanity and scandals.

Ignoring or stonewalling to the legitimate ecclesiastical inquiries is unwise, “If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”(Mt 15:14.) They are indeed fallen into a pit – A very dangerous, stinky pit.

This petition is to sincerely remind them again the reality of the situation demands our moral renewal and repentance under their faithful pastoral leadership.

Didn’t Vick’s dog have more human rights than real human beings? Shouldn’t the Church be a place more humane than Vick’s dog house? Is the Gospel reversed in UMC? Where is the replacement? There should be a criminal investigation to breakdown the evil network.

We must stop placing our Church on the way to “God is dead” as once did by Rudolph Kos, Henley Lyons, Tammy & Bakker, Hae Jong Kim and Ted Haggard. We must pray God for our rehabilitation with them from the deadly temptations.

If you, readers keep quiet, “the stones will cry out.” (Luke 19:39-40). Please help the Church to be revived. She badly needs your supporting prayers. Every reader’s response is a petition for better tomorrows of our souls in UMC. There is a choice for the Jesus people on the issue. If you can save this one, you can save all UMC. Please help the Korean Church!! May God bless you all!!

Yours in Christ.

X=============================================-X
EMAIL RESPONSE TO PETITION:

The Bishop . Bishop@nyac.com,
Metro N. District Superintend. mnnyac@aol.com,
The pastor. chang.kmci@gmail.com and others
Feedback . Csone@optonline.net

FAITH POLL:

1. Personally abused trust fund should return to the Church. A) Yes__. B. No__.
2. The bishop should honor the donor’s will. A) Yes__. B) No__.
3. No comment__ Jesus asks you,” Where do you stand?”_______
X=============================================X

.

Rev. Chuck Gommer wrote to the bishop that the United Methodist Church should recover he abused trust fund from the abusers.
From:Revgommer@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 4:22 PM
To: Bishop@nyac.com;chang.kmci@gmail.com. csone@optonline.net
Subject: Building Funds Questions – Korean Church

Dear Bishop:

This all sounds as though the leadership of our church has handled a “difficult situation” in a poor way. Are these matters of injustice in the claims of those who cry out about the fraudulent use of building funds and trust funds of the Korean Church in New York? Real leaders not only do things right... but in the critical points of decision making...do the right thing. What is the “right thing” in his matter? It is an embarrassment to the whole community of faith.

Chuck Gummer
Former District Superintendent
Former Wyoming Conference Executive
Wyoming Confeence
Wyoming Conference

This kind of thing makes me sick! How many people can run organizations the size of these, put the hours into travel, to speak at various events and not need a lot of money to do it. I know persuasive speakers who get paid for doing nothing but that. These people help build the confidence of many. They help take people who would, otherwise, end up in a gutter, dead somewhere and turn them around. I know many who have been totally changed by them sharing the Gospel and teaching prosperity. Who would want to become a Christian if the speaker is in rags? If Jesus came to the earth today and walked everywhere and had no home, in most cities, He would be arrested as a vagrant. He is coming soon but not the way He was. He will come to judge this kind of garbage that attacks His laborers. Has anyone looked at the cost of airtime and the pay these ministries have to put out? Most people put in 8 to 10 hours a day and work 5 to 6 days a week. If you are a Christian, you know a workman is worthy of his hire and something else, the men Bible were not poor. Jesus didn't live in a mansion on earth but believers know He came from a rich Heaven. The Bible says the gates are full of gemstones and the streets are made of gold. If you are a Bible believing Christian, you are in the Word and you know that God is a God of seedtime and harvest. These people give more money in a year into other good ministries with fertile soil and God blesses that, than most of us make in several years. To whom much is given much is expected. Have you ever thought about how many times the Bible talks about seedtime and harvest. I am sorry, it isn't talking about farming. There is nothing on this earth that doesn't start with a seed. Not even human life. No Senate committee should be on these people. If IRS has cleared them, then why does it bother these people that someone is gaining prosperity just because they are a minister? Some people think, selling their story or selling books that they write on a subject should not be allowed for them to increase their income either? Hey, that would make every novelist gaining income from writing untrue stories wrong. If people aren't happy with a ministry, don't support it, but, I, for one, don't want my government telling me where I can give my money. You know, those of you who are proclaiming to be born again Christians need to remember, the devil attacks anyone who is a threat to his agenda. Think. This is a sign of the times and remember this, King David was the apple of God's eye and the guy was rich. Solomon was rich,as was Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph. Esther went from being a poor orphan to a rich queen. God said the poor would always be among you. He didn't say you will all always be poor. Maybe school teachers, teaching their knowledge on a subject should be investigated if they do anything that increases their income. Thumbs up to these ministries and I pray God continues to protect them and bless them, in Jesus name, and I for one, will continue to support those that I have always supported.

I just wanted to add something else. I grew up believing I wouldn't please God if I gained wealth. That is such a lie! God never commanded us to remain poor. He commanded us to give cheerfully and to love one another. He also said that He would repay those a hundred fold that supported the spreading of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The church was added to, daily, and this kind of attack on prominant church leaders is nothing new. I have always believed the enemy places his henchmen in most every church. I worked in a position once where I was able to view the average daily balances and expenditures of two of the major churches in this country and world. The amounts, I cannot disclose here, were astounding. I don't see anyone attacking them.

I have lived all over the world and these people live well. Their congregations keep them living well and still many struggle, themselves. So if we are giving to a local church who pays their clergy well, that is ok? Hmmm...Government has no business messing in church business. According to God's Word the church people are responsible to hold them accountable. It isn't that I don't think they should show accountability but it should remain within the church boundaries.

To call these people heretics or criminals is a dangerous statement. God will repay. It is a terrible situation when men and women of God attack ministers carrying the gospel, trying to better people. God prospers people who work in His kingdom. How many of us, put in the hours to spread the Word of God, the single most important job in this world? If people's lives weren't improving, these people would not be prospering. The heretics are the churches taking the tithe and offering from the people and never giving back or giving back so little that it is minimal that it was like no help was given. Some of the crud people have put in here, like the person who wants to testify against them. If they weren't the church that the person claims did them harm, what do they have to testify? That is circumstantial and theoretical. It is non-related information. If these people are criminals for explaining seedtime and harvest, then every single motivational speaker is a criminal. If teaching seedtime and harvest is heretical, then that makes God a liar. I wouldn't want to walk that walk of accusation against these people.

The heretics are the ones who damn our nation from the pulpit. People who attack Israel. People who think our founding fathers meant to keep God out of government and public schools are the heretics. They didn't want an establishment of a particular religion, like Baptist or Catholic or Pente Costal. A government religion was what they wanted to prevent. One forcing everyone under a beastly religion, telling us what to preach, pray, believe, and speak out, is what they wanted to keep from happening but this kind of thing is trying to silence the Word.

So called people of God, crucified Jesus. It seems to me nothing has changed under the sun. If you truly believe living poor is what God wants for all of His children, then give away all you have, don't buy new cars, houses, clothes or anything. Live from hand to mouth like the street people because obviously you think they are holier than those of us who have acquired anything. If your argument is that you worked at an honest job and earned what you have honestly, let me share a few scriptures with you.

"Then you say in your heart, 'My power(work), and the might of my hand have gained me this wealth.'"

"And you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you the power to get wealth, that he may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day." Deut. 8: 17-18

If we were all suppose to be poor in ministry or out to please God, then why, would He have these scriptures and many more like them?

"For the Lord your God will bless you just as He promised you; you shall lend to mamy nations, but you shall not borrow; you shall reign over many nations but they shall not reign over you."

"If (and it says) if there is among you a poor man of your brethren, within any of the gates of your land, which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart nor shut your hand from your poor brother, but you shall open your hand wide to him and willingly lend hin sufficient for his need, whatever he needs." Deuteronomy 15:6-8

These are just a few. A true Christian knows that God never ever said we have to remain poor. It takes planes to fly people when they preach around the country and the world. A rock star or any kind of star will have their own plane because it is faster and cheaper to own a plane to run you across the country when you have one engagement in New York and less than 24 hours another one in LA. Ministers are no different. Get off of this bull. These people have set salaries and the ministries pay to fly them to their preaching and speaking engagements, no different than any business who sends their people on business trips. The only reason people are scoffing is because these are people of God who in their own narrow-minded, control-freak thinking, have decided these people shouldn't be prospering. I think that is God's decision. True believers want the gospel spread to the four corners of the earth like God said for it to be and it takes a lot of money, planes and the proof that God wants to bless His people to get that job accomplished. You wouldn't listen to a raggedy person with no money and you know it.