Comments

Why are so many Christian leaders critical of Saddleback's strategies?

Anyone would applaud the fine humanitarian efforts at Saddleback. These efforts resemble similar noble efforts of Roman Catholism and other belief systems.

However, the Biblical foundation at Saddleback is far less than solid. Warren twists and distorts Scripture into a humanistic form. The repackaged product has been used as the delivery vehicle for church growth and now global relief efforts.

The plan may appear successful in both arenas. Pews may be filled, the hungry may be feed. But the true need that the true church is called to meet first and foremost is untouched by Warren's "cosmo-Christianity"...to expose the real spiritual condition of humanity: spiritual depravity, separation from God and His judgement for that condition. To declare God's salvation plan for that same condition as revealed by the whole of Scipture in it's unadulterated form. To properly instruct, in the pattern set forth by the Scriptures, those who repent that they may learn to walk in the newness of life in the Holy Spirit, and put off the old sin nature. Thus producing fruits of good works that will cause men to give glory to God...not to give glory to a coalition of well intentioned religious organizations, as Warren has recently expressed in the PEACE Coalition press release. Warren is leading so many to imitate these good works, but never will succeed in duplicating the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, the very necessary physical,emotional and economic needs of thousands may be met by these Saddleback's services, but if the "first work" that the church is called to do in the Name of God is neglected, what kind of Gospel is really being presented by this kind of church?

Those served by Warren's cosmo-Christianity are at great risk of their greatest need going unmet, by a group of people that represent, at least historically, the only way to meet that greatest need.

RE: Jim

Maybe the work is in progress. Do we have to come to a work 100% mature or is it possible that the work will mature as the workers mature?

Didn't Jesus send his disciples out on a "test" tour before they were mature?

The primary work of the Church is to bring the good news of salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and to commit to Him as our Lord and Savior. If we are truly serving God the "good works" should manifest in our love for people. If the good works were sufficient there would have been no need for Jesus to be born of the virgin. The law of the Old Testament would have prevailed and mankind would have doomed itself to hell. Without the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, the Church is just another club doing good stuff. Jesus fed the multitudes; when He challenged them to seriously serve God they left. He was prompted to ask the 12 if they would also leave. Peter stated it very palinly with the question - Where? There is no where else nor any other way to be saved. Good works are the fringe benefit not the primary purpose.

Some of the criticism sounds like jealous judgmentalism to me, or high hubris. The Warrens are not perfect leaders. Saddleback's strategies? Adapt 'em or ignore 'em. But I appreciate the way they do more than just preach about obeying the Great Commandment and the Great Commission.

Why are people so critical? Warren is to be commended for his humanitarian work; yet the Church of Jesus Christ is not a humanitarian organization; it is the Body of Christ. In this regard, Warren is only following the example of the mainline liberalism he has criticized for years. Warren's "purpose driven" religion has substituted a deistic, moralistic, and therapeutic gospel for the Incarnate Son of God who by the gifts and graces of the Spirit has made it possible for human creatures to participate in the Triune Life. Warren's god is useful, at best, and the church, Christianity, etc., is worth having around because it works, whether its truthful or not. Here he is good company; Hume, Locke, Voltaire, et.al., who reduced Christianity to morality and ethics in order to make society work. It remains to be seen how long Warren will be able to sustain his programs, since without the constant nurturing of Word and Sacrament, not for their utility, but for the love of God for God's sake, the church is only what Richard Neuhaus has called, "a short term militia." He has little to no sense of the Church Catholic and its Tradition; presuming that what he is doing is original and creative. What an illusion. God bless him.

Jim,

I agree with your assertion concerning the tasks that the true church is to embrace; but I am not certain that we are in agreement on what is first and foremost. I believe that we are to--first and foremost--give glory to God. I think that takes priority over any "outcomes," including our "causing" men and women to come to Christ. In fact, I don't think that we "cause" men and women to come to Christ as much as we are given the privilege (and it is a privilege as opposed to necessity) of participating in the magnificent work that Christ has done and that the Holy Spirit is doing to convict men and women in this age. Thankfully, God is not predicating the salvation of others on our integrity; but He is allowing us to participate in what He is doing by way of His integrity and grace.

Again, I would say that all that you have mentioned--as a matter of the purpose of the church--is included in the "business" of giving glory to God; but where the priority of giving glory to God is concerned, I believe that there are some priorities within that priority.

I don't have the "priorities within that priority" hierarchy "figured out," but I believe that one of the high "priorities within that priority" is the priority of "being." That is "being" godly over "doing" godly, in a manner of speaking.

For example, we know that our practice (orthopraxy) should emanate from our doctrine (orthodoxy). Sometimes, though, this process becomes mechanical. "Do it this way and it makes you right." While it is right, though, the "mechanics" of it all eliminates any notion of "orthopathos," or right feelings and passions. Being born-again necessitates a certain thinking (the mind of Christ) and that thinking necessitates certain conduct (the ways of Christ); the indwelling presence necessitates certain feelings--and, most particularly, a peculiar compassion.

I said all of this to say that Rick Warren's approaches are curious to me, too. At times, I think that He is going "soft" on the gospel. Then at other times--like now--I wonder if he is going "soft" or if he is struggling to allowing the Holy Spirit to strike what will me a most peculiar balance between orthodoxy, orthopraxy, and orthopathos.

None of us would be in ministry if we were required to be fully mature. However, this does not address the matter of Warren's relentlessly consumerist self promotion, and the thousands of pastors and people (according to him, its mmillions) he has led and misled, taught and mistaught. Contrary to the marketing ethos Warren has adopted (or been co-opted by) there is accountablitiy and responsibility in all of this; its not just a matter of allowing the market to determine what "works" or does not work. Warren has accepted the secularity of the modern world, to which he adds a think veneer of Bible and Jesus to bring a little "purpose." His programs do not require the initiative or activity of God to work. Drop all references to God and whole system would keep on running along without a hitch.(practical atheism)