Comments

I don't understand this post. How is Obama being inconsistent? If you think that an issue should be handled by the states, why can't you also have an opinion on how the states should handle it?

I think that sales tax should be handled by the states, but I also have an opinion about what I'd like the sales tax to be in my state of Maryland. I'm not being inconsistent, am I?

As president, Obama could URGE the states to take one or another policy. But he is saying that as president, he would not try to FORCE them to, because under our federal constitution, it's ultimately up to them.

Jason, let me see if I can help you.

Obama takes the following positions:

1. He believes the definition of marriage is a state issue.
2. He believes the definition of marriage should be "man and woman."
3. He supports civil unions.
4. He opposes Prop. 8 -- a state proposition -- which would define marriage as "man and woman" and allows civil unions.

If you can't see the inconsistency between 1-3 and 4, then take Logic 101.

There is no inconsistency. Reading the Constitution might be an idea, mostly to understand what it says about federal vs state rights and responsibilities. A governor is the head of a state; the president is the head of the country. The two do not make laws for the other.
Pretty sad state of things, though, that so many marriages are so incredibly fragile as to be adversely affected by whether or not other citizens have the right to marry. Maybe if they continue to be forbidden to exercise the same rights as other citizens they shouldn't have to pay the same taxes..? Just a thought.
Don't forget to read the seperation of church and state parts of the Constitution while you're at it.

The religious right needs to stop trying to write homophobia and religious radicalism into US law. Obama is absolutely correct in opposing this divisive and hateful amendment that would damage thousands of Cali. families, many of them with adopted children, by labeling homosexual unions as "second-class." "Separate but equal" didn't work the last time we tried it, and as the CA Supreme Court affirmed, it's just as unfair and unequal with respect to civil unions versus the full rights and respect accorded to married couples.

I am a Cali. resident who looks forward to joining throngs of other open-minded, unprejudiced voters in voting down Prop. 8 this fall.

The California state supreme court cross the line this week when it stated that a doctor (has to preform the duty of the husband/father)for a lesbian couple regardless of his faith. This is not a matter of saving a persons lift. In this instence it is more like plastic surgery. Its nice to have but not needed to maintain life.

Everyday in california kids are subjected to the gay life style and more and more of them are seeing pro 8 as a breach of someones liberties when it's not. As far as I know marriage between gay people has never been excepted and why should our generation be the one to allow it.

I was tought what was right and what is wrong as a youth and now I am finding out that my mother, father,grandfather's and grandmother's were wrong! I don't think so!!

LDS (Mormon) 'Yes on 8' Game Plan

I've posted a letter sent from Boyd K. Packer on July 28th to the California LDS stake presidents:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/19/224211/910/755/570793

Apparently, there is a plan in place to put up one million 'Yes on 8' yard signs at 7:00 am on September 22nd.

Obama is wrong about marriage being a state issue. It's a Golden Rule issue, a full citizenship issue, of both state and nation. Gay men and women are not full citizens, and it's not right that it be that way anymore.

And...marriage has never been about a man and a woman, that's just been a necessity to produce male heirs. Not to mention that monogamy usually was not practiced by men, just women, or else.

But, marriage isn't about producing male heirs anymore, to inherit one's rung on society's rigid ladder of power. It's about trying for commitment and love. To grow together as a family. An equal partnership in life. Our marriages no longer requires one to be a man and a woman, it's just proclaimed without foundation that it must be so.

But, some things never change, though our understanding of it has...the Golden Rule. The Golden Rule is why lawful marriage should be expanded to Gay/MSM/WSW people. It's not about "gay marriage," it's just about "marriage" as it is today. It's the right thing to do.

Why is this the goverments concern at all? I am a happily married woman to a man, but cannot understand why same sex marriages will undermine my marriage at all. Everybody should have the right to marry. After all, doesn't our constitution say we all have the right to the "pursuit of happiness'. What right do we have to judge other human beings who are doing nothing to hurt others?

Are you people informed about the consequences if this Prop 8 fails???!! Massachusetts legalized gay marriage and it caused the Catholic Adoption agencies to close their doors in Mass. Priests will be sued for hate speech if they speak against gay marriage and if they refuse to marry a same-sex couple. That is happening in Canada right now which legalized gay marriage. Church sponsored universities will be required to provide same-sex marriage housing or lose their tax exemptions. Don’t let the media fool you about this! Please vote yes on PROP 8!

Overcome your ignorance and hate: vote down prop 8.

Hey Hoystory,
FYI, separation of church and state isn't in the U.S. constitution.

So Karen, economics comes before the constitutional principle of the Right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? If Catholic adoption agencies were practicing discrimination against interracial couples, if Churches were refusing to marry members of certain ethnic groups, if universities were turning away qualified students because their spouses weren't white, anglo-saxon, protestants, would you not expect legal and social sanctions against them? So you're argument is that because society would see temporary economic difficulty, that justifies the denial of fundamental human rights? Wow, great Christian values.

Hey Gene. FYI separation of church and state is a fundamental constitutional doctrine that has been recognized by many modern constitutional governments, INCLUDING that of the US. And if you doubt that it was in the minds of the drafters of the US constitution, you need to read some more Thomas Jefferson. It's easy: look at Separation of Church and State. Specifically, Jefferson refers to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state.

Gregoy Peterson/Chino Blanco: What about a bisexual person? Under the new logic, wouldnt they have to marry both a man and a woman to be able to have the right to the "pursuit of happiness"? Just curious.

I have no problem with Gays wanting to spend their life together and having the rights of married couples. I do have a problem with them telling my church that their adoption program has to include giving babies to gay married couples. Or that if we don't perform gay marraiges on our premesis then we should be sued.

Vote yes on 8

Glen said:

"I do have a problem with them telling my church that their adoption program has to include giving babies to gay married couples. Or that if we don't perform gay marraiges on our premesis then we should be sued."

My best friend was recently the head of "LDS Family Services" for all of the Los Angeles area. He assured me that if any Church does not take public money it can place babies or perform marriages any way it wants. Civil acceptance of Gay marriages will not change this. Same for LDS temple marriages. To suggest otherwise is, at best uninformed and at worst - fear mongering.

Here's a proud 'card carrying' member of the Mormon Church that's voting NO on prop 8.

Look, do you all really want to know why Prop 8 MUST pass? Because GOD says homosexuality is WRONG! That's why! And since Jesus IS God, He also says it's wrong. So get out your Bibles, and read up on the Word of God! It isn't hate, it's the way God made marriage to be. If you don't like it, take that up with God. But I guarantee, you will not win! Don't argue with, or defy God! He is a loving God, but He is also a just, righteous, and holy God, who says He cannot look on sin. Those who defy Him are destroyed; read the Bible!

Karen, I'm a Canadian. I don't know where you're getting your news from, but nobody is being sued up here for refusing to perform gay marriages. Why should they, when the Anglican church will willingly bless gay unions? And nobody's being sued for hate speech for speaking against it, either. We have our own Bill of Rights up here too, thank you.

And as for housing at church sponsored universities, I don't see how it's any of their business what roomates do in their rooms.

Yes, Obama's previous statements imply that he would favor California's proposition 8.

But really, isn't it silly to have local, state and federal governments in the business of defining marriages? Soon we'll have different definitions of marriage in all states, and heterosexual marriages may not be recognized at all in San Fransisco!

Wouldn't it be better for government to only recognize civil contracts for tax and legal purposes, and leave it to God and churches to deal with marriage? I cannot express enough my fear of entrusting legislators to start dictating how I must live to be in accordance with God's word. Please don't make the mistake of giving our government the ability to assert the meaning of God's word. Strip the government from being involved in defining marriages at all, so the institute of marriage is defined in Churches and before God, and not in the county clerk's office.

Prop 8 has little or nothing to do with discrimination. It is about protecting marriage as it is and how California voted to protect it in 02. The judges had no legal precedent for making the decision they did and prop 8 is designed to reaffirm what CA voters have already decided. Mr. Obama is speaking from both sides of his mouth in this interview and is totally inconsistent on this issue. I don't understand how someone who claims to be Christian can not support prop 8 with a clear conscience.

It is interesting to read these comments. I see some closed-minded people trying to quote the bible and doing so a bit incorrectly. The biblical Jesus does not condemn homosexuality and the bible never condems same sex marriage. In addition, Jesus was the son of god and not god. Now, the book of Leviticus does stipulate death for homosexuality but, while you may want to round all of us up and exterminate us, just be sure to include all of the adulterers, disobedient children, blasphemers, and anyone having pre-marital sex. These are all punishable by death according to the christian bible.

You may also want to look at the relationship between David and Jonathan before you use the bible as an excuse to take away the right of marriage for gays and lesbians. That love story is in 1 Samuel and 2 Samuel.

Now, this is what Proposition 8 is stating:
ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME-SEX COUPLES TO MARRY. INITIATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT. Changes the California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California. Provides that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California. Fiscal Impact: Over next few years, potential revenue loss, mainly sales taxes, totaling in the several tens of millions of dollars, to state and local governments. In the long run, likely little fiscal impact on state and local governments.

Notice the key words "ELIMINATES RIGHT OF SAME-SEX COUPLES TO MARRY". This is because the California Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage and thousands of gay couples have since wed. How can anyone wish to write discrimination into our Constitution? And, please do not try and use the "sanctity of marriage" as an argument. Does the sanctity of marriage include getting married one night and having it anulled the next morning? Is it paying 2 strangers a million dollars to get married on national tv? The sanctity of marriage is the union between 2 people who love each other and wish to spend their lives together with the same rights as others who chose to do the same regardless of their genders. Period.

Prop 8 is about the separation of church and state. As things now stand, the CHOICE of sexual preference has gained the status of "discrimination." To speak out against something protected by discrimination is labeled "Hate speech" and is a prosecutable offense. Prop. 8 removes the discrimination status that the 4 judges in San Francisco have granted it. As it stands now, Christian and Jewish (among others) religious leaders would face prosecution if they taught from the Bible and taught that marriage was between a man and a woman. Keep the gag off your pastor and vote for prop 8!

I agree with norcal-t Sept. 15. Every one has the right to be happy! We must remember that the Bible is a book written by man, and it's interpretation by man is to control man. It is sad that the City Council of Beaumont California want to have a proclamation supporting prop. 8. This is scheduled to take place on Sept. 30 2008 at city hall in council chambers. What ever happened to separation of church and state?

Marriage is between a man and a woman. It's about procreating and commitment. I am proud to be part of that.If you choose to be with a partner of your same sex.....so be it. You have been given equal benefits from your company already.....kudos to you. Let it go and respect the values we are passing on to our children that we created thru a moralistic and value centered family.

Why do we need Prop 8? Are you banning people from marrying and being unable to have kids? Are you for banning miscegenation? Are you a good Christian if you eat shellfish like shrimp? Do you have a proposition banning divorce up for a vote?

Of course I respect those who choose to marry and have kids. Maybe I'll have kids some day. But why should my partner and I pay over $6,000 in taxes more than if we were legally married?

It's bigotry, pure and simple. No other marriages are weakened by ours.

Vote NO on Prop h8. Reclaim the definition of Christian values as accepting and loving.

All these religious hypocrites first of all need to learn separation of religion and politics. And more importantly, its bad enough forcing your religious views on others, but its even worse that you twist the words of the Bible to force wrong views. The Bible doesnt have one passage condemning homosexuality. All the passages are cited out of context and refer to idolatry, rape, etc, not homosexuality. Any informed religious Christian would know this. Learn your Bible before forcing wrong views. Oh and i thought id like to throw this out. You remember how many people were for
racism? Remember they shot MLK? Remember how all that happened and racism was defeated for the most part? Guess what, people are becoming more open minded, people progress in the right direction, and more and more people are accepting homosexuality. Even if by some miracle this passes, mark my words, you are delaying the inevitable.

So do you support racism, bigotry, inequality? Do you want to be considered a hypocrite (which Jesus hated btw) and go to hell for twisting the words of the Bible? Then vote yes. However, if you are
against racism, bigotry, inequality, and support God, vote no on prop 8 like i am and many others i know. We are also doing as much as we can to get people voting no on prop 8.

No on Prop 8! Whats so difficult about this. It's human and civil rights. Why should the law tell us how we should live our lives. It's a separation of church and state. ALL humans should be given equal rights and not just the marriage between man and woman. It's not that we give preferential treatment to some just because we think it's how things should be. If that is the case... we should all be leading down ONE path in Life.

Ah yes, Proposition 8, the Protect Marraige Act. What a bunch of nonsense.

My wife and I will vote no on Proposition 8 and vote for Barack Obama.

This board is full of some of the most hateful, close minded, and disturbing things i have ever read.

Why are gay people not full citizens? Why can't they marry the people they love? This is a human rights issue and you can't call yourself a true Christina if you don't believe that everyone in this world is equal, and thus deserves the same rights as you. That includes the right to marriage. And that, my friends, IS IN THE BIBLE. Please stop twisting scripture and making everyone who is a Catholic look like some raving, hypocritical, hateful, bible thumping moron.

I was born and raised Catholic, and I think its disgusting what some other "Catholics" have to say about homosexuals. How is gay marriage hurting you and "corrupting" your children? What if you found out tomorrow your son or daughter was gay? They are still the same person they were before, so would you love them any less?

I repeat one more time just for clarity, the most basic thing we all learned in bible school: TREAT EVERYONE AS YOU WANT TO BE TREATED. GOD MADE EVERYONE EQUAL. If you are a Catholic, you have to believe this. And if you do, then you would not believe that banning human beings who are different from you the same rights as you. Plain and simple. Sorry to say if you think that anyone" who claims to be Christian can not support prop 8 with a clear conscience," you are in fact a huge hypocrit, nor are you a decent person.

God makes people equal in total but not everyone has the same traits. I'm terrible at math and never will have the capacity of many others. Sexuality is no different; people are born with different feelings and needs. I join in the joy of gay or lesbian and all couples who decide to spend their life together. But God, in his wisdom, decided that when people of the same sex live together they will not have children. I think most gay or lesbian parents will lack the balance of life experiences that will make them good parents and help them prepare their children for a happy life.

Being a California resident, It is a fact that most of the funding for prop. 8 is from out of state, and mostly from Utah and from the Mormon and Catholic churches. I really think we should be taking advice on marriage from these groups... Let me see, start out with a few wives at first, make sure though they are no older than 11 or 12 so the can be "Fresh" for their husbands, not to mention all the other crazy hypocrites that sin all day and go say a few "Hail Mary's" and it all goes away. Please keep your crazy arkaic views to your self, I think I can make up my own mind without them.

I have to wince at Karen's August 21st posting. She says that if CA allows gay marriage, priests that speak out against gay marriage can be sued for hate speech. Karen, are you talking about priests that rape? Are you talking about the same Catholic church that knew that priests were raping CHILDREN and did NOTHING?? Oh, wait..they did do something - they transferred these a-holes to other parishes where they could rape MORE kids. For you to give money to the Catholic church is nothing more than blood money, and it's offensive for you to equate gay marriage, which is about love, to the Catholic church, which stands for the protection of RAPE. Shame on you, Karen, and God help you for having the audacity for giving credence to what any Catholic priest has to say.

Its unfortunate that our society has excepted gay marriage as being normal. Anytime someone speaks against this practice is labeled a bigot, witch hunter and a few other choice names. The word "compromise" comes to mind. Its hard for the church to speak out about these important issues when many who show hate to gay people also themselves are drunks, adulterers, theives, just to name a few. But on the other hand God never changes. His word stands as a beacon of truth throughout eternity. My prayer is that we will take a stand for marriage between a man and a woman and show grace to those that oppose our conviction.

Am I the only one that is disgusted that the church is raising millions for this camapaign, while there are homeless, sick or dying people, victims of natural disasters, or people that have been laid off that are in desperate need of this money. Where are the church's priorities here? They will raise money to discriminate and hinder people rather than help those that are in need. It's sad that these people are allowed to call themselves Christians.

As I write, the economic world I have known for 68 years is falling apart for lack of trust. Trust is earned through honesty. At this time the supporters of Prop 8 have amassed over $25M and are using it to spread half-truths and lies about what its defeat would mean. Much of this money was collected as tithes and offerings accepted from well-meaning Christians.

How much longer can we expect the world to trust our word if we are dishonest?

For a clearer picture, read this blog written by an open-minded LDS attorney:

http://mormonsformarriage.com/?p=33

When you are done, ask yourself if Christ approves of this expenditure to support Prop 8 when the same funds could be being used to benefit 'the least of these...' For example, see:

http://www.compass-sf.org/familyhomeless.html#stats

The ends (insuring the passage of Prop 8) do not justify the means (half-truths and lies.) They did not in the 15th century, in the time of the Spanish Inquisition; they do not in the 21st century, the time of our own doing.

baumgrenze

The Bible does say that homosexuality is a sin. Don't accept the distorted preaching of supporters of homosexuality.

Sodom was destroyed by God because of its wickedness(homosexuality being a big part of this). Here's a link that explains the biblical account: http://www.str.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5702

Also the New Testament preaches against homosexuality: Romans 1:26-27, 1 Cor. 6:9-10, 1 Tim. 1:10. Take a look and see for yourselves, homosexuality is wickedness.

I really don't like that homosexuals are outright lying about what the Bible and God's word really say.

1. There are good people on both sides of the same-sex marriage issue.
2. There are gay people who oppose same-sex marriage and support Proposition 8. My partner and I are two of them.
3. Proposition 8 is about protecting those who disagree with same-sex marriage and not about denying rights to same-sex couples. Proposition 8 will not outlaw same-sex relationships. Under California’s domestic partnership law (Family Code 297.5), same-sex couples enjoy all of the same legal rights as marriage.
4. In other jurisdictions, government recognition of same-sex marriage has led to government endorsement of same-sex marriage and government hostility to individuals and organizations that disagree with it.
a. In Massachusetts, government threatened to revoke licenses to religious-based adoption agencies that don’t place children with same-sex couples.
b. In California, government has compelled physicians, against their conscience, to artificially inseminate lesbian couples.
c. In Sweden, a minister was prosecuted for hate speech.
d. In Canada, a political writer is being prosecuted for hate speech.
e. In schools, same-sex marriage will be taught to children against the wishes of their parents and against their religion.
5. Proposition 8 will support freedoms of speech, press, and religion to those who disagree with same-sex marriage.

1. There are good people on both sides of the same-sex marriage issue.
2. There are gay people who oppose same-sex marriage and support Proposition 8. My partner and I are two of them.
3. Proposition 8 is about protecting those who disagree with same-sex marriage and not about denying rights to same-sex couples. Proposition 8 will not outlaw same-sex relationships. Under California’s domestic partnership law (Family Code 297.5), same-sex couples enjoy all of the same legal rights as marriage.
4. In other jurisdictions, government recognition of same-sex marriage has led to government endorsement of same-sex marriage and government hostility to individuals and organizations that disagree with it.
a. In Massachusetts, government threatened to revoke licenses to religious-based adoption agencies that don’t place children with same-sex couples.
b. In California, government has compelled physicians, against their conscience, to artificially inseminate lesbian couples.
c. In Sweden, a minister was prosecuted for hate speech.
d. In Canada, a political writer is being prosecuted for hate speech.
e. In schools, same-sex marriage will be taught to children against the wishes of their parents and against their religion.
5. Proposition 8 will support freedoms of speech, press, and religion to those who disagree with same-sex marriage.

Here are the facts. Failure to pass Prop 8 alone may not result in the parade of horribles. However, it will provide a foundation for later troubling legal consequences, including threats to freedoms of religion, association and free speech.

That being said, please take a look at the NPR article below. NPR is run by a bunch of liberals and even they admitted that gay marriage will impact religious liberties.

Failure to pass Prop 8 will result in the loss of religious liberties. Even NPR agreed: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91486340

The Catholic Church can no longer do adoptions in Massachusetts. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/191kgwgh.asp

In Massachusetts, the only other state to legalize same-sex marriage, children in elementary school are being indoctrinated about same-sex marriage.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/protect-marriage---yes-prop/story.aspx?guid={799BF008-E629-42E0-AFCB-725A6F085ADA}&dist=hppr

No civil liberties will be denied by passing Prop 8. Marriage is not a right, it is a privilege. Children deserve to be born in a home with a father and a mother. Society should do everything to encourage the creation of strong, stable families with a father and a mother.

Don't believe the lies. It's not about civil liberties, equality and acceptance. It's about suppressing free speech to the contrary. Look no further than a recent 9th Circuit Ruling prohibiting Oakland City employees from using the terms "traditional families" and "family values" as the court determined such terms constituted hate speech. http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/03/09/003756.php

I think the law trying to outlaw gay marriage is not so much a moral issue (we know it is but that is perhaps a larger thing) as it is what one would call "the ick factor": It just looks really icky to many folks. But as it turns out, those who are still opposed to gay marriage are just being too selective (you know, only certain faction can do so because we have no qualms about it). But why should opposition to the "sanctity" of marriage be limited to those of the same sex; perhaps there should be a prohibition to those of different races (an African American man and an Italian woman for example, or an Irish gentleman and his mail order Thai bride), or different religions, or different economic backgrounds. And if anyone is going to be married, they jolly well better have at least four or five children. No point getting married if you are not going to procreat. It's bad enough that the concept of divorce is bad enough to completely ruin this "moral fabric".

People who believe they can safeguard their rights and privileges only by denying those very same rights and privileges to their fellow citizens have embraced the ideology of Nazi-era Germany, Apartheid-era South Africa, and the Jim Crow-era United States.

If the supporters of Proposition 8 are really not in favor of legalized discrimination against their fellow citizens but rather truly only want to preserve the sanctity (as they see it) of marriage, they should push for a constitutional amendment to ban divorce. That remains the biggest threat to marriage and traditional families.

Follow the Money

Sadly, Prop 8 is also about money, hypocrisy, and the knowing violation of the IRS code.

In the interest of brevity, please open the link below and search for “Focus on the Family.”

http://www.powells.com/authors/wallis.html

The interview dates from early 2005 and has received little comment. Jim Wallis is a progressive evangelical Christian brother. I trust him to tell the truth. He had nothing to gain by sharing this story.

Also remember that through their “Love Won Out” ministry Focus on the Family advocate the marriage of recovered homosexual men and women with their heterosexual counterparts as long as the marriage is between a man and a woman. My anecdotal evidence suggests that such marriages often lead to divorce; this is hardly a ‘focus on the family.’ Has anyone seen unbiased statistics?

Also visit the url below:

http://www.californiansagainsthate.com/dishonorRoll.html

It lists the major donors urging the passage of Prop 8. Near the top of the list are the following 501 (c) (3) organizations: Knights of Columbus, National Organization for Marriage, American Family Association, Focus On the Family, and Concerned Women for America. Their donations confirm their stand that the ends justify the means and their contempt for the law of the land when it does not serve their ends.

baumgrenze

Follow the Money - I Stand Corrected

Limited advocacy on ballot initiatives is allowed. See:

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=175818,00.html

"However, these organizations can engage in advocating for or against issues and, to a limited extent, ballot initiatives or other legislative activities."

The moral issues I raised remain. Matthew 7: 12 and 22: 39-40 are Christ given ‘litmus tests’ we must always measure our actions against. If we don’t, our non-Christian neighbors and friends certainly will.

baumgrenze

Wow - Obama believes that each individual in the US has a fundamental right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I do to. Dictating who can marry and who cannot is not the business of goverment, or to be honest, anyone else.

Follow the Money - I Stand Corrected

Limited advocacy on ballot initiatives is allowed. See:

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=175818,00.html

"However, these organizations can engage in advocating for or against issues and, to a limited extent, ballot initiatives or other legislative activities."

The moral issues I raised remain. Matthew 7: 12 and 22: 39-40 are Christ given ‘litmus tests’ we must always measure our actions against. If we don’t, our non-Christian neighbors and friends certainly will.

baumgrenze

Proposition 8 is a win-win situation for GLBT activists. If it fails – hurray! Another state down, 47 to go. If it passes – the Religious Right's homophobic campaign will have knocked down an epic hornet's nest. In one day, they'll create thousands of brand new gay activists. GLBT people who have never donated a dime or a day to GLBT activist groups (like www.soulforce.org) will for the first time in their lives realize the importance of getting actively involved, because they'll have just had their own marriage license TAKEN from them. But they won't be the only newbies to join our fight. People all over this country will witness for the first time in American history, a minority group have one of their RIGHTS taken away with legislation. Ha! It was one thing to change state constitutions to prevent gay people from getting equal rights, but taking away our rights is a whole different ballgame, folks. Americans all over this country will be outraged, gays and straights alike. Activist organizations will be louder and angrier than they've been since the AIDS crisis. Oh, but there are few key differences between 2008 and the 1980's. We have more money, we're better organized, we have political clout, and we're not dying. Passing Proposition 8 will create a perfect storm, and Hollywood will be all over it. (What a bonus that it's happening Hollywood's home state. Haha) As a gay activist, I'm very excited about Proposition 8. In fact, I sorta hope it passes.

From a return missionary of the Mormon church: Gay rights should be granted. It's the right thing to do and you know it. Btw, there is NOTHING in the Book of Mormon that speaks against homosexulatity - you have to point to the bible that contradicts itself a bazillion times over and has been rewritten 157 time plus. Please don't use Jesus as your shield for hate and fear. Grow up and be fair. Vote NO on Prop 8!

This is one of the best articles that I have found on the subject of Prop 8 in California (It may affect the nation) Please take the time to read it. The title is "Who is Really Lying" http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/proposition-8-whos-really-lying/story.aspx?guid=%7B5627F03A-80C6-4259-8A81-E5D73F237D93%7D&dist=hppr

I think the marriage of a loving man and a woman provide the best example and potential to young children of what a husband and wife, mother and father are all about.
Any other definition of marriage may well take away children's ability to define themselves and make a decision about these issues into adulthood.
I have a great distrust of the msm and homosexual activists who say we should stop disagreeing with them and everything will be all right. Somebody's morality is being legislated. There are definitely consequences, as has been sited by other posters here. Homosexual activists will redefine marriage and society's laws about what children will be taught about it, particularly in public education, free association, etc.
Parents are so fed up with this intrusion into the raising of their children. Let the children become adults when they can make up their own minds. I also believe attempts to include other redefinitions of marriage will also be forthcoming in the future.

By the way, Christ's apostles did preach against homosexuality in the New Testament. Genesis 2:24 also talks about the acceptable pattern of marriage before God "a man... shall cleave unto his wife...". Furthermore, there is misrepresentation about Biblical punishment of homosexuality. See Christ's treatment of the woman taken in adultery in the New Testament. A sin punishable by death was pardoned as Christ was restoring the Gospel. Laws of God are no longer lethally enforced but but still have spiritual consequences, including spiritual death. "Sin no more" I think he said to the woman in that particular case.
As I understand, the lethal enforcement of the mosaic laws began as the ancient Israelites rebelled against God by worshipping idols after entering into a covenant to worship only God, and later, when ancient Israelites rebelled against Moses and planned to kill him and return to Egypt, after all God had done for them in answering their prayers for deliverance from the Egyptians by miraculous and destructive fashion.

Prop 8 is not about equality. EVERYONE can MARRY. This is about WHO you can marry. Marriage is between a man and a woman - that is the definition that has held and been supported for centuries. Everyone is free to marry. BUT, now some people would like to form relationships with people of the same sex and CALL that marriage. This is a problem. That is just not marriage.

If you wish to form same-sex relationships, it is not against the law. Go ahead - form a civil union or a domestic partnership. BUT, you cannot CALL it marriage because it is NOT marriage.

Be very careful. A "NO" vote on Prop 8 is a vote to help redefine sexuality, morality, and our society. VOTE YES on Prop 8. Don't let 4 liberal judges undo what 61% of Californians have already decided.

If you are for prop 8, you are either bigoted, or very religious, bigots are beyond help and are utterly disgusting, I understand the good people that are religious and want to follow their conciounce, however to push the christian definition of marriage means forcing it upon others who don't believe in it.
I will disrespect somebody once they have harmed me, however a fellow american who had the bad luck of being born gay, doesnt count as harming me, if they want to get married, why is it my business?
If my marriage is harmed, it will be by bad judgements on either my wifes part or through my stupidity, not by adam and steve getting married or not.
Protecting my marriage?
What a joke,

It is amazing how the opponents of Prop 8 are seeking to reassure the public that accepting gay marriage will have no consequences for the free exercise of religion by people who believe that homosexuality is wrong. The NPR article cited above documents very well the alarming pattern of court decisions depriving citizens of their rights to exercise religious beliefs if they run contrary to recognized "gay rights."

Thank you to the poster above who shared the link to the article on MarketWatch. It reveals how Prop 8 opponents are being completely deceitful in arguing that legal recognition of gay marriage will not have any impact on child education. Extremely enlightening. It reads in part:

"The top issue that has emerged in the Proposition 8 campaign is whether same-sex marriage will be taught in California public schools if the initiative is not enacted. Opponents of Proposition 8 are spending millions of dollars on television commercials telling voters that the Yes on 8 campaign's claim that gay marriage will be taught in public schools is a lie. Yet a review of public records filed with the First District Court of Appeal in Boston shows these same organizations who claim our statement is a lie fought to make it true in Massachusetts. Specifically, they fought to ensure that gay marriage be taught in Massachusetts public schools, even over the objection of parents who sought an "opt out" for their children. Gay marriage was legalized by Massachusetts courts in 2003.

Further, their assurance that parents can always "opt-out" of such instruction when it is taught is belied by the fact that in Massachusetts, they argued successfully that Massachusetts' parental opt-out provision should not be permitted.

'These damning public records show that it is in fact the organizations leading and financing the No on 8 campaign who are lying to California voters,' said Yes on 8 campaign manager Frank Schubert. 'On one coast of the country they tell judges that gay marriage should be taught to children in school at the youngest possible age. But, on the opposite coast, here in California, they have the audacity to tell voters that gay marriage has nothing to do with public schools.'

Lying... who's really lying?"

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/proposition-8-whos-really-lying/story.aspx?guid=%7B5627F03A-80C6-4259-8A81-E5D73F237D93%7D&dist=hppr

Check out the link for detailed quotes from the legal arguments presented by Prop 8 opponents in the Mass cases -- arguing for EXACTLY the things that they are now trying to reassure California voters could never possibly happen!

until 1948 interracial marriage was illegal in the united states. fast forward 60 years later and now the fear is back again. how have we gone so wrong to take us back 100 years and deny all people of all faiths, colors and orientations the same rights. how can we call this a free country if we need to make laws restricting rights? if you fear for the "definitions" of sexuality and morality then you are already unaware that homosexuality is not a choice, children are born this way. so to create restrictions is tantamount to racism. to promote proposition 8 is to create a secondary class, and the children of those families that happen to have two fathers or two mothers will suffer even more. this proposition will simply reinforce fear and hatred of another minority group in our society, another minority group which produce and contribute to our economy and out culture, and are a group who are teaching and raising our children.

also proposition 8 has NOTHING to do with what your children will be taught. if anything it will be a topic that becomes intensely studied in college and graduate school courses as adults. parents in california retain all rights over what their children will be taught regarding sexuality. it is not an intrusion on anyone elses marriage, this is a fear-based marketing strategy that the supportors of proposition 8 are using to gain support. even the california teacher's association publicly states that teacher's have nothing to do with teaching their children about marriage. so think carefully that while supporters may think they are fighting to protect their children, you are opening the door to discrimination against another person's children or even your own should they turn out to be homosexual. This particular proposition is NOT the way to protect traditional marriage.

I'm a California psychologist/singer/songwriter, and my opinion on this issue is contained in the following song, free as an mp3 download to all who have helped out with efforts in support of Yes on Proposition 8:

Adam and Steve Want to Marry
Dr BLT
words and music by Dr BLT © 2008 Right-wing Records
http://www.drblt.net/music/AdamAndSteveRML.mp3

The GOD DAMN point is that since christianity is religion.... why should its teachings be forced upon folks like myself who actually see reality for what it is...... Doing such is a violation of the constitution which forbits religion in law. Proposition 8 is an attempt to cram your freaky lame religion down our throats in order to rob us of dual relationship status and tax rights. Anyone who has to even think twice about this right is automatically evil. Plain and simple.

I vote no on 8 and im a straight male. We live in a land full of old bitter hypocrites.

GF quote: "until 1948 interracial marriage was illegal in the united states. fast forward 60 years later and now the fear is back again"

It's amazing how people try to equate racism with people who are against blatant immorality..such as "gay" marriage......(no on 8 prop ads as well doing this as well) We don't have hatred towards people caught up in the gay lifestyle...we do hate the sin itself... love the sinner...hate the sin. We don't want the homosexual agenda being forced down our throats and in our schools. What an opportunity for the devil....get young children exposed to homosexuality in school and taught that it's perfectly moral and natural.

I have a comparison....racism and gay marriage have something in common...they are BOTH immoral.

I kind of "went off" on my soap-box in that last posting.
I just want to make something clear, we are ALL sinners...no matter what sins we've committed...this blog happens to be about gay marriage..so I discussed that, but in no way am I trying to be condemning to individuals caught up in that lifestyle. Jesus died for all us sinners..whether it be for people who've lied, stolen, get drunk, use drugs, view pornography,involvement in the gay lifestyle or any other type of sin. We are all guilty of sin and in need of Jesus, the Savior. Us Christians are just forgiven sinners/beggars for mercy, who are to share the good news of Jesus with other sinners. But we also are called to tactfully, respectfully, and in love, take a stand for what's right and wrong.
God bless.

I read through all the comments and it appears that most of you have your minds made up and no amount of debating is going to change your mind. It is good to have a firm opinion and to act upon it. My wife have done so. We live outside of California so have donated money in support of Proposition 8. We do not normally give in support or against a proposition but this was too important to just watch from the sidelines. I was also able to voice my support through my blog. Amongst my acquaintances so many are in favor of Proposition 8 but have not blogged or wrote letters to the editor. These are the silent majority in America that if Proposition 8 passes will be glad in their hearts. If it fails they may possibly be galvanized to action such that supporters of marriage the way God intended will not be able to contain the proffered help.

I'm not going to call anyone a liar and I wish you all well whichever way you vote. And I'm saving my dollars for the next round, wherever that may be. See you there.

I am a student in high school of age 16, and after reading all of these comments supporting prop 8, i am just disappointed. I am disappointed in my fellow californians and the choices some of you have made.

Most of your arguments supporting proposition 8 have been based on your religion. I thought the ideology of imposing your religion has been all but evaporated... Well i can see how wrong i have been.

Can someone please explain to me why you care so much if homosexuals get legally married? Is it because you claim to want to keep them from going to hell or somehow it will corrupt your children minds? Maybe we should reestablish the missions and forcefully teach Christianity to our fellow Americans, because that just worked out so well.

What has our country come to? We finally come over segregation and elect our first black president, but now we can't over come ourselves to allow homosexuals to get married?

I am BEGGING someone to tell me otherwise!