Comments

The theme that night was "Service", ironic don't you think.

Rudy Carrasco, from CCDA and Harambee, just twittered that he just got off the phone from NPR asking for comments about the "community organizing" statement.

Yet, it was a direct response to the belittling of Sarah Palin's experience as a small town mayor.

The insistence on referring to her as the former mayor instead of as the present governor pushed for a response that connected Obama's and Palin's experience--making note of what each was doing at a particular time.

The mocking was related more to the idea that such a position is good experience for becoming President of the United States. If Republican attacks are going to be noted they should be so noted in the context of the broader political conversation.

Indeed, given Democrats increasing stereotype as being biased against small towns, and non-coastal states, and rural families, it is just as valid to reflect on their dismissal of Palin's own history.

It's disingenuous to bring up one side without noting the failings of the other that led to such comments, as well as to dismiss out of hand the fact that what is being referred to is precisely Obama's actual accomplishments within that role.

I think that it's unbecoming to judge another person's vocation and performance.

However, if the victim (and his campaign, party operatives, and a fawning media) changes the game by casting the first stone, then it seems to me that the victim is actually aggressor.

These candidates all have a job to do. Unfortunately, I'm not sure a person wins by telling the truth. It's not just on the candidates; it's part of our system.

A black eye is not effective ministry for a pastor or doctor; but it can be for a boxer.

Stan, I cringed a little when Rudy Giuliani was hitting that theme. It definitely strikes the wrong chord. On the other hand, you may be seeing some sincere reaction from office holders who have dealt with their share of community organizers and saw the mechanics of shakedown at work. Remember Tom Wolfe's Mau-Mauing the Flak Catchers?

My guess is that it is a communication breakdown between urban and rural/suburban Americans.

I'm from a rural/suburban background. I've been involved community activities my entire life, and I can honestly say I don't know anyone who identifies themselves as being a "community organizer." I know plenty of folks who are active in PTAs, homeless shelters, and various causes (both political and faith based), but they usually identify themselves with the cause ... not generically as simply an "organizer."

Maybe "organizing" is what they do in more condensed urban settings?

As for Obama's experience, I've heard differing stories ... one is that he worked for a derivative of ACORN (a far left political group that seems to get publicity every election cycle for election fraud somewhere) ... the other story is that he worked for a catholic charity. Anyone know the truth?

By the way, to be fair to Sarah Palin, her comment about community organizing was derived from Obama's belittling her experience as a small town mayor.

I've haven't heard ANYONE in the mainstream media expressing similar outrage for the Obama's belittling Palin's small town mayor experience.

Loud and clear the point of mocking his community organizing was that it DOES NOT QUALIFY you to be President of the United States. If it did there would be many, many people out there who would fill the qualifications. The work of community organizing isn't ridiculous--the claim that it means you have what it takes to be President is!

This wasn't simply an affront to Obama. Look around. It's got just about everyone mad at Palin.

I'm disappointed that you added the link in the "update." It's not that some community organizing isn't open to criticism, but that particular article was really trashy - not the kind of thing I would expect a flagstaff organization like Christianity Today to link to.

The point of the mockery was not community service per se, but Obama's touting it as experience that qualifies him for the top executive position in the world. It was also a reaction to the way he condescendingly referred to her experience as mayor of a small town while ignoring her experience as governor.
Now frankly I believe all this is petty on both sides, but once you open Pandora's box...

"Community organizer"? That's a laugh. Whom did Obama ever help in Chicago -- except himself and developers? Consider: ALTGELD GARDENS, just what did Obama DO -- other than engineer a meeting with city officials (with newcoverage) that broke down into scuffles with city officials? The asbestos problem there was never fully fixed; indeed, some Altgeld residents STILL have an asbestos problem. As for VOTER REGISTRATION? In 1992 Obama ran "Project Vote" the registration drive for the (corrupt) organization ACORN. Then, in 1996, when OBAMA wanted to run for office (Illinois State Senate), he threw all of his opponents off the ballot on a technicality, so that these voters had no choice but to vote for HIM.Once in the State Senate he helped provide TONY REZKO and other such developers with subsidies to develop "low-income" housing units, thus providing these guys with a rent-subsidy fund that guaranteed a steady stream of income. And, for all the money provided by taxpayers, what did the "low income" residents get? Squalor. Roaches. Unheated buildings. In short, slums. Thanks, Barack.

Come on Stan...did you watch the same speech?
They did not belittle the service...all citizens should serve in such a way...but should that be the primary experience on a Presidential resume?

Governor Palin has more practical experience than the other three candidates combined.

It needs to be pointed out that Obama declined lucrative offers that came to him as an outstanding graduate of a top law school Had he entered business at that time and made big buck, I'm sure the GOP would have been impressed.
Their motto for the evening was "Service"; I don't think anyone demonstrated it better than Barak Obama.

It needs to be pointed out that Obama declined lucrative offers that came to him as an outstanding graduate of a top law school Had he entered business at that time and made big bucks, I'm sure the GOP would have been impressed.
Their motto for the evening was "Service"; I don't think anyone demonstrated it better than Barak Obama.

Hi Patrick,

I am with you that the context of the comment is important. Sarah Palin is perfectly entitled to defend herself against the charge that she lacks experience relevant to being VP, or President. In future, however, she will just need to be a little careful about her choice of terms. Perhaps due to lack of experience, she did not attack Obama's achievements as a community organizer, but said that community organizing does not involve any real responsibility. No need to be partisan about that, it is in the transcript. It is what it is.

On reflection, she probably regrets that. Her feelings were probably hurt, and she overreacted. Temperament is a very important quality in a VP/President. She will have to practice keeping her feelings in check in future. Particularly, if she becomes VP or President, at which time little slip ups can have very serious consequences.

And you are also right that it isn't fair to keep referring to her as the former mayor without comparing what Obama was doing at the same time. For example, when Obama was doing community organizing in the southside of Chicago (1983), Palin was preparing for a beauty contest (1984). When Palin was elected Mayor of Wasilla (1996), Obama was elected to the Senate of Illinois (1996).

And, to be fair, the mocking of experience as a town Mayor (even one as large as 200,000) was started by Karl Rove (just a quick google search will find a video of him ridiculing the readiness of someone who has been the mayor of town of 200,000 and a governor for 3 years); though Rove said that before Palin was appointed, so he probably didn't really mean what he said at the time. I assume that Karl Rove didn't really mean to look down his nose at the experience of "small" town mayors when it comes to qualifications for the White House. Probably another slip up, but at least he isn't running for the White House.

We need to be careful about accusing Democrats of "looking down their nose" at people given pedigree of Bush (son of President/inherited wealth), McCain (son of Admiral/married wealth) and the pedigree of Obama (son of single mom/earned 'wealth'). Just because someone says that Republicans are 'battlers' and Democrats are 'elites', doesn't make it so. I have never really understood why we think that Democrats 'look down at us'. Is it that people who say that 'look up' to Democrats? It doesn't make sense.

Gideon, can you please link to the place where Obama trashed Sarah's experience as a city mayor? I have only seen Obama praise her service to the community. Obama is unlikely to attack Palin for having similar experience to his friend, Kane, who was on the shortlist of his VP picks. In fact, it was Rove who attacked Kane (before Palin was appointed) as being unsuitable for VP because he was 'merely' mayor of Richmond (city of 200,000) and governor of Virginia for 'just' 3 years.

Regardless of whether Sarah was acting out of a spirit of retaliation, or not, she made a comment that would have been rehearsed and scrutinized carefully before being made. The fact that she decided to retaliate against some perceived grievance by mocking community organizing as a job without responsibilities is just unfortunate, and does reflect poorly on her and McCain. I'm sure she is a better person than that nasty comment.

It is very troubling that Jesus made as the most important difference between the sheep and goats things such as feeding the hungry ,looking out for the disadvantaged - things which would qualify as community work. As Christians all our actions must also be examined in the light of the words of Jesus where he said we should not curse but bless . Lets examine our words and actions in this light

Michelle Malkin's comments are important here:
"Let me clarify something. Nobody is mocking community organizers in church basements and community centers across the country working to improve their neighbors' lives. What deserves ridicule is the notion that Obama's brief stint as a South Side rabble-rouser for tax-subsidized, partisan nonprofits qualifies as executive experience you can believe in.

What deserves derision is "community organizing" that relies on a community of homeless people and ex-cons to organize for the purpose of registering dead people to vote, shaking down corporations and using the race card as a bludgeon."

Guliani and Palin could have been more pointed concerning Obama's community organizing days. In reality, his community organizing centered around Chicago's political machine and could not even be compared to the CCDA organizations. Clearly there is GOOD community organizing and NOT SO GOOD community organizing and that could have been emphasized better.

I'm a community organizer. I work with the homeless, help to run food pantries, conduct Christmas Food drives, have been a PTA president four times, serve on three community boards of directors. I see this as my Christian duty. Am I mistaken? Should I quit? According to Sarah and Rudy, these contributions mean little. But Jesus says, "when you do this unto the least of these... You do it unto me." It seems to me that Jesus was a community organizer,too. NPR points out that Pontius Pilate was a governor.

People need to understand that this is not a game what happens in ones life is not all the time funny. As believers we must remember not to spread gossip that is harmful to the nation. We need to pray for the blessing of the Lord move across this land like never before. It's wrong to belittle community work, because someone has to do it and it's this work that gives back to the community. My prayer is that we all pray for unity and stop all those that want to bring down those that work hard at making the quality of life better for other. The bottom line is that we all have to give account for what we say and do.
Pray for the USA

I completely agree with Ben. Such a vituperative article (as your Update link led to) is totally contrary to Christ's teaching and example, the same as was Gov. Palin's disgustingly brutal and cynical talk. Guthrie's comments, whether you agree with him or not, are far more commendable as being in appropriate Christian spirit.

I listened to Gov. Palin and I do not believe for a second that she thought a 'community organizer' was a position to be mocked. Anyone involved in an active church should know there is nothing to mock about a community organizer. There are all kinds of them out there and many types of organizing to do. What does anyone think a mayor does, or the sanitation dept, or the maintanance crew or anyone else who works for the good of a community do? They ARE community organizers! What is the problem? I wish people would try to really understand that conservative people and liberal people and Christians, and any other people...who give in some way to the community, are community organizers. It just doesn't take a lot of qualifications to roll up your sleeves or use your influence for good! What Mr. Obama fails to understand is that his work is fine, but he hasn't done a lot of service. He thinks a lot. He has met influencial people...whom he sought out, just so he could do what he believes is for people. I just do not agree with the method he will put in to play in our gov't. I believe that he has painted a bad picture because he can't stand the fact that you can't have the perfect picture. He truly needs to get to work...as I do not think he has a clue what really working is. How can he relate? He hasn't really worked for a living nor sacrificed in his life. He needs to take time to find out who Americans are and quit defining them, and deciding what is best for them. He is not the savior of the poor...nor of the black in this country. He didn't do whatever he did alone or for long. He needs to get to work...not be the president...He will make changes, but not the ones we need in this country. The gov't will eat us alive and weaken us all. Our culture is on the wrong path, and the reason our culture will fall, is because too many are believing the LIE that it is ok to KILL babies in the womb. This alone will make this nation fall...there will be war, and there will be a fall of this nation unless we stop the killing in the womb. I have NO respect for a person in terms of their "viewpoint"...even some of my friends and fellow church goers...if they cannot understand this simple spiritual, human value and principle, called life in the womb. I do not believe God compromises on His basic principles. Jesus died for our sins, but sin is still the cause of our failed human efforts to solve the problems in the USA and in the world. I am grateful for His Grace and Patience but ignoring God in this culture will be our downfall. God will still be God and for that I have comfort and His Peace. I will seek Him and seek His Will.
SO...mocked is a nasty word. It can be called that. I would like that a speech writer could have done the comparison by just saying that what she (Sarah) has done is as good or better qualifier as Obama's. oh, well, that is the nature of politics. I am sad that we don't walk in the spirit but we just don't, so we act and speak out so much in the flesh...esp. in politics...it is sad.

Has anyone given Senator Obama credit fot how he helped the steelworkers after their jobs ended? He didn't go from community organizer to the Democratic Presidential Nominee.

Obama's community organizing associations are not so squeaky clean.

What the mainstream media continues to cover-up:

Obama, Ayers, Dohrn and double jeopardy
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74486

Community organizing is not the issue per se. It is what Obama was organizing that is the problem. His associations with Ayers & Rezko are reflective of Obama's character. Birds of a feather flock together.

The dissenting view says that 'Nobody is mocking community organizers in church basements and community centers across the country working to improve their neighbors' lives. But that is exactly what Obama was doing. In 1982-83 he was working for a faith-based group, literally a church basement, literally helping the church's neighbors improve their lives. Ms Malkin has never been one to be concerned with facts, though.

I do not believe mocking is what Gov. Palin was doing. She was making a point and actually in a nicer and more informative way than most of us would. Obama fails to realize that he is not the center nor the inventer of community organizing. There have been in this country alone...millions of people who do this sacrificially and without fanfare in many areas of community and society. Wake up Obama and join the human race...you have no new ideas, just old ones that have been tried in other countries where the will to work hard (or work at all) has been taken away by give "aways" and "poor me" attitudes being fostered. Let us truly give and help our neighbor but let us not have a gov't that will control right and wrong (as in making people think abortion is a right!) and let people help each other without the waste of gov't and self interests that come from people who take jobs in gov't to promote and keep their job. We can create and promote without gov.t interferance...Dear people, if one only paints a bad picture and people believe that, then we are in bad trouble. Talk about the number of people working, and deal with the minimal number who are not in comparison. Work to get those people into the many jobs that are just sitting out there. Read the "want" ads. What is the matter with people? We have all we need in this country and do more for others than any other country...ask why Obama wants this power to make us into a socialistic nation like others that sit back and criticize us and do nothing to defend the least, and cannot even defend themselves without us? Isn't it amazing how we rescue people and nations and they spit in our faces and think they know better how to live...? Obama has been sitting in liberal acedamia and contemplating what is wrong. Really hasn't done much of anything. What is it with people who think they should be a king and those who want one to rule them? We need saving from all the people who think they know better, but have not the simplest respect for the people of this country and the power of their faith...amen

1. MOCKING PALIN

For those saying that Barack Obama spoke negatively about Sarah Palin's experience as a small town Mayor... please cite the source. It didn't happen.

The Obama campaign came out with a criticism toward McCain for spending months making the argument that Obama is not experienced enough to be President and then choosing someone with arguably even less experience. The Obama campaign was making a point that McCain has negated his own 'experience' argument. They were not in word or tone mocking Palin's experience.

2. FAITH BASED COMMUNITY ORGANIZER

Barack Obama was working with CHURCHES as a community organizer. THAT is when he discovered Jesus for himself and became a Christian. He was working with Churches and found God.

3. EXPERIENCE

Palin has ZERO foreign policy experience. Palin runs a state with an INHERITED budget surplus. Palin has not commanded the National Guard in any way even once. Palin hasn't been Gov long enough to even judge if she's been successful with the state economy. Palin left a 23 million dollar debt in Wasilla after being Mayor... she became Mayor of a city without debt.

4. FAITH BASED VOTING

Would you refuse to go to a doctor if the doctor didn't share your beliefs? Would you refuse to drive down a freeway that was built by people who didn't share your beliefs? Would you refuse to eat food from a farmer that didn't share your beliefs? Would you refuse to buy a home from a seller who didn't share your beliefs?

You would trust your health, your transportation, your food and your home to people who don't share your beliefs, but you would rather pick your President not based on qualifications to do the job but rather on whether or not they share your beliefs.

Sounds like the measure of someone who thinks that we are electing a King or Queen instead of a President.

The President is not the ruler of this country. They can't make laws. They can't break laws. They can't start wars. They can't do anything that we the people haven't given them the authority to do.

The Presidency is a job... like a doctor... like a road worker... like a farmer... like a construction worker... not like a King that the church claims was ordained by God.

Finally, when was the last time you had a Christian construction worker work on your home and not let you down?

Exactly. Faith does not equal qualification. Faith does not equal character.

Of course, we have one nominee who is a Christian and one who knows how to talk like a Christian. Which one has born the fruit of a true Christian?

Disrespect in any color is still disrespect. Ms Palin became a willing schill for the panic striken McCain. Having forsaken the needs of her family she jumped into the battle with both feet willing to say and slay anything that got in her way. Her historical track record is now being revealed. But as usual most red necks will quickly say: "don't confuse me with the facts" McCain's portrayal on CNN shows the real man..SAD

While Senator Obama may not approve of Palin’s delivery, he has already agreed with her take on his community organizing in his memoirs. It accomplished very little; indeed, that and the Alinsky philosophy he and his colleagues were operating under is why he left his position. As commentator John B. Judis writes, he became disillusioned with those principles, which were to fight for the community’s own self interest rather than what is moral, to work behind the scenes instead of using a personal charisma, and to refrain from making political connections. Almost every project failed, except for an attempt to make some improvements to a children’s playground. One can see that his actions after community work reflect a complete rejection of this methodology. Ironically, this is one “change” about which he has not been quite forthcoming during his campaign. For a fascinating read on this, check out Judis’s “Creation Myth: What Barack Obama won’t tell you about his community organizing past,” in The New Republic, a decidedly liberal and pro-Obama publication.

I agree with Patrick in that part of Palin’s speech was to give an emphatic answer to her critics and to ignore the larger context in which her speech was given is unjust (and I would add, naïve). The press was caught by surprise, something they cannot stand since they consider themselves the gatekeepers of information, and therefore reacted viscerally. It also enrages gender or identity feminists when a woman who claims to be both pro-life and a feminist wields some influence (i.e., Michelle Cottle, a senior editor at The New Republic, calls Palin a “crackpot”). I have been through many, many election cycles and have never observed anything quite like the roar that has erupted over her nomination.

Poster Anton Bursch argues that the Obama campaign criticized McCain rather than Palin directly. Let’s look at that statement—you can find it, whole or in part, all over the web, including the New York Times:

“‘Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain’s commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush’s failed economic policies—that’s not the change we need, it’s just more of the same,’ said Bill Burton, Obama Campaign Spokesman.”

Hm-m-m-m-m. Somehow that strikes me as a criticism fairly inclusive of Palin. Of course, it doesn’t rise to the level of labeling her a “crackpot,” but why should his campaign take that risk when the press is so eager to themselves? Now, it’s being reported that Obama himself is directly criticizing Palin in regards to earmarks. It’s quite unusual for a presidential candidate to contend with the vice presidential candidate of the opposition, but the Obama campaign has decided he must since she has created quite a splash.

I believe what’s been missing in this discussion is that Palin gave her speech in the tradition of a vice presidential candidate; they are the ones who make the highly pointed remarks so that presidential candidates won’t have to (as much, anyway). Biden performs the same for Obama. Perhaps it is this tradition that we really need to be discussing. I would point out that while Christians often are uncomfortable with conflict, the nation’s founders distrusted human nature enough to inject it into their design of our government as a way to check and balance, and our political system has arisen out of that framework. So it may be an extremely difficult thing to change. And must we assume that all conflict, criticism or mocking is bad? Jesus always answered his critics either through words or actions, sometimes quite heatedly and, yes, sometimes through mockery, until it was time for his crucifixion—something that obviously wouldn’t win him the U.S. presidency. The biggest mocker of all, however, has got to be Paul. Puts things in a different light, doesn’t it?

Considering the poll bounce McCain has gotten it seems that Palin knew that her market sees "community organizers" as just another species of urban rodent.

Welcome to political reality. And never forget the words of Franklin Roosevelt, "It is good to be hated by the hated."

THIS IS TO R.L. FROM SEPTEMBER 8TH....
THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT SOME OF THE QUALITIES AND CHARACTER OF THE REAL GOD AND REDEEMER AND LOVER OF MAN...
PEOPLE STILL DO NOT WANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT JESUS DID NOT ALWAYS OR EVEN HALF OF THE TIME, SAY WHAT PEOPLE WANTED TO HEAR NOR THE WORDS THEY WANTED HIM TO SPEAK WITH. I HOPE PEOPLE...REAL CHRISTIANS, WILL STAY IN THE WORD, AND GROW IN LOVE WITHOUT FOLLOWING WHAT THE CULTURE IN THIS COUNTRY PASSES OFF AS LOVE. SPEAK THE TRUTH IN LOVE. BELIEVE GOD'S TRUTH...IT HASN'T CHANGED! LET'S JUST BLESS THOSE WHO DON'T HAVE THE TRUTH IN THEM AND DON'T KNOW IT AND CONTINUE TO LOVE THOSE IN DARKNESS. FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN SWAYED AWAY FROM GOD'S WORD, MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL.
WE NEED TO STOP ABORTION NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES...I PRAY THAT I CAN LIVE TO HEAR MY GRANDCHILDREN (AGES 4,3,2,NEWBORN, AND ONE ON THE WAY) ASK ME "WHAT DID YOU DO TO HELP STOP ABORTIONS, GRANDMA?"
LET US TEACH A NEW GENERATION THAT THERE IS A RIGHT AND WRONG...AND OF THE LOVING REDEEMER WHO DIED SO WE COULD BE FORGIVEN.

"By the way, to be fair to Sarah Palin, her comment about community organizing was derived from Obama's belittling her experience as a small town mayor.

I've haven't heard ANYONE in the mainstream media expressing similar outrage for the Obama's belittling Palin's small town mayor experience."
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The fact "is" she was a mayor to a "small" town.

Service, organizer, helper what difference does it make how you label it Obama rolled up his sleeves and worked for the underpriviledged person/family.

McCain did not keep the "county first" when he selected Palin as VP. If McCain wins and then drops dead before the term is up what the "heck" is Palin going to do for this country?? Stop being so naive.

I grew up in a rural town of 300 in an Indiana county whose seat had a population of 6000. Local papers kept me abreast of the political challenges of towns in neighboring counties which had populations of 14,000 and 30,000. I now live in south-suburban Chicago and minister in a church in Obama's old neighborhood of Roseland on Chicago's south side. I can tell you that a community organizer seeking to meet the extensive needs of an impoverished area and having to battle the entrenched politics, bureaucracy and egos of the city of Chicago at the same time is a challenge that most small town mayors anywhere in America have no idea about. At the very least, in terms of raw numbers and administrative workload, Obama's and Palin's experiences might be equal. I personally believe, however, that Obama faced the greater challenge. Community Organizing in Chicago or any other major metropolis is no walk in the park as Giuliani, Palin et. al. seem to believe.

And, as a postscript, how much would Mayor Giuliani have been able to get done in the aftermath of 9/11 if it hadn't been for some of the "community organizers" he undoubtedly had to call upon?