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September 24, 2008

Tony Alamo talks about the raid of his Arkansas compound

The controversial evangelist probably should have stayed quiet

I'm always skeptical when people refer to fringe religious groups as "cults." You know, Christianity was a heretical Jewish cult in the first century, and look how that turned out.

The word cult was thrown around in Sunday papers this weekend following the raid of Tony Alamo Ministries, and again, I chose against using the word. The guy certainly seemed odd, and allegations of a child pornography ring at his religious compound didn't help. But those were allegations, and Fouke, Ark., wasn't Jonestown or Rancho Santa Fe.

I'm still not ready to call Alamo a cult leader, but I am willing to say he is absolutely bonkers, at least theologically. Last night he did exactly what no person in trouble should do: He opened his mouth, and to a reporter no less. And, boy, he's got some wild ideas.

An excerpt of the blog post from John C. Williams at the Arkansas Times, who interview Alamo, is after the jump:

Not surprisingly, Alamo categorically denied charges of child pornography and polygamy that have been reported in the past few days. "Anybody can accuse and spread it around town, and of course they want to kill you," he said of the allegations. "But there's no child abuse going on."

It's not that polygamy is wrong, he said: "If you can find anything in the Bible about fire and brimstone for the practice of polygamy, then I'll give you $250,000 in cash. Adultery is condemned, but not polygamy."

"Most of the world believes in polygamy," Alamo said. "The Africans, the Indians, the Chinese. The Jews ? the Jews can have at least four wives. Two-thirds of people in the world practice polygamy."

He added that polygamy is not for everyone ? just for "great men of God, if they can take care of their wives and children." He also repeated his typical complaint that if school-age girls can ?fornicate' and use birth control, then there's no reason it should be illegal for men to take young wives.

Yet Alamo denied that he had wives of any age, other reports to the contrary: "You can check all the marriage records in the world." He said his only two wives have been Susan Alamo and "the princess of Sweden," Birgitta Gyllenhammar, who left him and the church after two years.

He also denied that anyone in his church was practicing polygamy or marrying underage girls. "I don't believe that at all. Otherwise I would kick them out. And they don't want to be kicked out."

Alamo blamed a Fouke man named Tony Lane for the raid. He claimed Lane's wife lived at the complex and that he wanted her to leave against her will. He accused Lane of being an alcoholic and a bad guy in general, though he admitted that he had never met him. Alamo added that a number of Fouke residents ? whom he referred to as ?hillbillies' ? were being paid off by the government to give information about the complex. He claimed Fouke to be a main base for the KKK.

It's never been totally clear why Alamo chose the Miller County town of 800 for his headquarters after his release from prison for tax evasion in 1998. The answer is simple, Alamo said: Convenience. His followers were visiting him in the Texarkana federal pen, he said, so it made sense for them to set up shop nearby. "They didn't want to stay in hotels."

There's more here.

Cross-posted at The God Blog.

Comments

In reference to polygyny and Scripture, Mr. Alamo is correct, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Regardless, it would be wise for Mr. Alamo to avoid providing any more interviews, as they will always end up to be less than flattering, even if he did make complete sense...which he doesn't.

So Tony Alamo believes there's nothing in the Bible that condemns polygamy? That only proves he hasn't read the Bible.Both Christ and St. Paul condemn polygamy. He should read Matthew 19, 3-9; First Epistle of Paul to Timothy 3, 1-2 and 12; First Epistle of Paul to Titus 1, 4-7. All say that a man should be husband only to one wife. Polygamy comes to us from the dark ages when women had no rights, were used as chattels and collected as concubines in harems for the sexual pleasure of one man. Mother Nature herself has not provided even two women for every one man ...the sexes are almost equal in number. Therefore, when a man takes 4 or 5 or more "wives" it means 4 or 5 or more other men have to go without a sexual partner and the chance to have a family of their own. That makes for a very dangerous social situation. Polygamy is a disgustingly self-centred practise on the part of some selfish men who have no concern for women, only lust. It should be kicked into the garbage can of history where it belongs.

When you say the word "cult," what you don't realize is that those outside the evangelical community look at evangelicals broadly as a "cult." As this country and society begins to evolve, evangilicals will continue to reject new ideas, more's and discoveries...thus isolating themselves further. When you look to gain political influence, go public with smears towards gays and others, well you are not doing much to teach us otherwise. This alogn with FLDS, Family First or whatever...all cults my friends. You want the US to be the Christian version of Iran...sorry but not in this lifetime and more evidence that the US is NOT a theocracy and that by commiting crimes against children, homosexuals, women or anyone else will land you in jail, along with everyone else. None of you have "special rights" because you represent religion...well the majority of those outside your small towns are "educated" and will just keep "evolving" with society while you sit there and grasp at a society that's long gone...sorry.

Educated, you are definitely NOT. Besides not being able to spell
very well, you spout a bunch of nonsense. When have evangelicals
committed crimes against women or homosexuals? Who among us is
trying to claim "special rights"? And just where is this
"evolution" of society you believe in heading? When have we
tried to erect a theocracy? You spout nonsense without evidence.
As for your smear of small towns, well, you are almost laughable,
if your ideas weren't so unfounded. Just so you'll know, I have
a Master's degree in education, was a public school teacher for
nearly 40 years, and have been an adjunct professor at a community
college. But I suppose that's not enough "education" to suit a
person of the cultural elite such as yourself, with your self-styled superiority. We evangelicals would rather follow
God's standards than society's "evolving mores." Get off your
high horse, accept Jesus, and join us.

I am not of the view that we should refrain from refering to some religious groups as "cults".

As long as there is orthodoxy there will be cults, if by "cult" we mean "any group that deviates significantly from the philosophy out of which it originated", yet beleves it is the (only) correct representation of that group.

Therefore, when a group claims to be "Christian" but denies historical and foundational Christians truths e.g. the "diety of Christ", the "tri-unity of God", "salvation by grace through faith alone", that group is to be considered a cult of Christianity or a false or erroneous version of that faith.

For me the key is that a group can only be deemed a "cult" if they claim to be the true version of an already established faith. So that when some argue that Christianity was a "cult" of Judaism, that would be true if Christianity had promoted itself as the true version of Judaism rather than revealed (and embodied) truth about salvation.

That Christianity derived from Judaism cannot be held against it since some basic religious truths are present in all religions. for example, no one refers to Islam as a "cult" even though it is similar to both Judaism and Christianity in many respects.

The word cult however, should not be used to smear or demean others, only to point out what are the essential differences between groups.

Why does this "man of God", evangelist, minister and spokesperson for a "Christian" body of people choose to push the limits, not only of what is legal by man's law, but also what God says is right or wrong in His word?

1st Thessalonians 5:22
Matthew 18:6-7

That's all I have to say about this.

Forget talking about "cult" (which in evangelical terms can refer to those outside historically accepted doctrine such as Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses or "The Way International...." Look at this as a man who has had more than one brush with the law and not a minor ones, and it is not for "preaching the gospel" once for all delivered to the saints!" No, this is more like a wolf in sheep's clothing being exposed as not a believer at all possibly! It is garbage like this that drags my Lord's name through the mud!

There is no record of multiple wives of Tony Alamo, because they do not get marriage license. The only thing they register for is to vote so that they can get involved in local government and try to have some control over their area. There is also no birth record so that you can claim a child or file for custody to get them out. Births are assisted by a midwife and no birth certificates are filed. The only way to prove that a child in the "church" belongs to you is by DNA test which are impossible to get. A child would be moved to another "church" location before DNA test could be arranged. These people are very clever. On the surface they look very wonderful. Don't look deeper. This could be a Jonestown in the making. Mr. Alamo has visions of grandeur and paranoia. Everyone is not "out to get him" and there is no KKK in Fouke. The man thinks he is a profit.

If you are not persecuted, you are not much of a Christian. Clouds without rain, great swelling words, giving the appearance of some form of intelligence.
Jesus was Lied about and murdered on a pack of Lies. The apostles were lied about. It says so in the Bible. It's the truth of God's Word not to be broken down or interpreted by you're carnal mind.
If you would invite Jesus into your heart and accept Him as your personal savior, you would understand that the devil and anyone the devil can use will come against you and attack you with vicious Lies. Just like the devil did to Jesus. The Bible warns us of the last days of the earth when men will be lovers of themselves and not loving God. If you were raised in the 50's and 60's you had some morals taught to you. But, not today. Today Anything goes. And if someone tells you like Tony Alamo does, that you're a sinner and on your way to hell. You flip out. You scream child abuse, porn, evil. The Bible also tells us that in the last days they will say that evil is good and good is evil.

Ok, he's correct that polygamy is supported by the Bible; it specifically says that God blesses the righteous with many wives. But we should bear in mind that the Bible also specifically commands burning witches, and that the Bible says you may rape a virgin as long as you pay her bridal price to her family afterwards. So, I'm not sure we want to bring this type of immorality from the Bible into our society. We can be better than the Bible. We can turn our faces away from such Biblical immorality as rape and slavery, and we can turn our faces towards such anti-Biblical practices as monogamy and freedom of religion. This country is specfically founded on refusing the Biblical principal of priests running the government, and instead adoopting the anti-Biblical principal of freedom of religion.

I lived in Fort Smith, Ark. during the height of the Alamo movement. If you can't call him a cult leader, then there never has been one. He used his teenage followers to run a restaurant, ranch, and western clothing store for virtually no pay except the thrill of following him and having room and board provided in a barracks-type setting. He prophesied that he and his wife Susan would rise again three days after their deaths. However, when Susan died a number of years ago, there was no evidence of her resurrection-go figure.
Brad, please avoid political correctness to the extreme that you cannot take a stance. This was a cult. This will always be a cult.

Just remember the Word of God states as you have done it unto the least of them You have done it unto me, Jesus.
If you choose to call a true work of the Living God a cult then you are calling Jesus a cult.
You know where Tony Alamo's web site - alamoministries.com is.
You can read his literature and listen to thousands of audio messages.
Prove him wrong. Prove it. Check it out for yourself.
Don't listen to the main stream media. Every intelligent person knows they lie to get your attention to cover up other things that are going on.
Like the changing of money to the Amero-dollar, someday to be replaced with the micro chip under the skin. and if you don't you won't be able to buy or sell or work. That's what the media and government has in store for you.

Please go to the following website for the TRUTH about Tony Alamo.
He is an evil man. www.tonyalamonews.com

The goal of this website is to promote awareness and understanding of the true nature of Alamo Christian Ministries and of the exploitation of its members by self-proclaimed "World Pastor" Tony Alamo.

The website hopes to serve as a resource for victims, survivors, their family and friends, their advocates, and for anyone else interested in learning more about Alamo Christian Ministries.

I guess that since Tony has gotten older that he has forgotten about the other 2 wives he had when i was at the church after Birgitta left him. I forgot her name but I do remember that she had a son named Kenya and his last wife was Elizabeth and this statement was made after they both left him. I am not judging him because that is God's job but I think he should be more honest about being married to these women. Yes I left the church actually I was asked to leave because i got a phone call from a male friend that was looking for me and i was falsely accused of having an affair on my husband who was 15 years older that me. But as I stated it is not for us to judge him because God will take care of that especially if all these allegations are true.

the state of the chuch is sad. Most churches are not even churches just dens of satan. Look if a stranger homeless guy came into your church and asked to stay with that pastor your pastor would take him to a homeless shelter and give him a bag lunch. thats not what the word says. Your church probaly says they do not have to follow the ten commandments cause thats old covenant. But when it comes to take up money for those new buildings of satan the old is okay. Leave pastor Tony alone and Set free soilders alone this is suppose to be a free country but the government is the devil.
if u pay taxes u support killing babies.

Note to Harold: Please tell me where the New Testament says that witches are to be burned, or that rape is just fine, thank you. And where, please, did you find priests ruling? The priests were of a different tribe (of Levi) from the kings (originally of the tribe of Judah). And slavery? In the Old Testament, what we would call the slave trade was expressly forbidden: "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death" (Exodus 21:16). For that matter, the Jews were also commanded not to return a runaway slave to his master (Deuteronomy 23:15).

On the other hand, as to "doing better than the Bible," try this one for a couple days: "Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves." Or this description of the early church in Jerusalem: "they began selling their property and possessions, and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need" (Acts 2:45). The morality of the Bible, especially of the New Testament, is far higher than most secularists believe.

Matthew 19:3-9 condemns adultery, not polygamy. Jesus honored all the polygamist patriarchs. God Honors the Polygamist union of Israel (Jacob). He inscribed the names of the fruit of that polygamous union over the twelve gates of the New Jerusalem. The KJV says that Mary was a virgin. Even in their attempt to water this down later translations admit that she was a YOUNG GIRL. If we believe that we can be better than the Bible, which is God's Holy Word, then we believe that we are better than God. "I will be as the Most High." Ever heard that line before?
If God's Holy Word honors polygamy, condemns adultery, fornication, murder (abortion), and many other commonly accepted sins which are endorsed, subsidized and even enforced by our government and accepted by our society, and you have the guts to broadcast this worldwide, you will be persecuted. You will go through fiery trials. You will be dragged before magistrates and kings for the sake of the Word of God. They called Jesus the devil. If they called Tony Alamo the devil. that wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. The devil is a great hero today. They have to find dirtier and more vile lies to say about God's people today, because just calling them devils wouldn't arouse enough hatred.
Yes, your taxes support killing babies, but Jesus let us off the hook there, He said to go ahead and pay them.

ummm....just visualise the situation before posting comments --- this 74-year-olod geek and long-term nutcase stripping down and performing marriage rituals (and probably imaginative ones at that!) upon his latest 9-year-old wife. Perhaps a written or pitorial depiction of these practises ought to have been included in those pamphlets which Bernie Hoffman's followers placed upon car windshields across America. Maybe he should raise money now for his defence by hawking little statuettes depicting his wife whom he had stuffed and displayed for worship. Or was that his mother? Whatever.

I lived here many years ago. It is a cult. We were told if we left, we would either turn into a homosexual, be raped or killed. Well, none of those things happened to me.. I will admit I was brainwashed by a variety of methods: sleep deprivation, not much food. I lived there when Sue Alamo was alive. The polygamy began after her death, when he saw she wasn't going to 'rise from the dead." Tony blamed his followers for the fact that she didn't rise from the dead. He has forced fastings of the people there. Is that right?? I don't think so. Children, grown men and women are regularly beat there by boards. Is that "Christian"? I don't think so. I am so glad Tony is in jail and he should be there for the rest of his life... There is a warrant out for his "main enforcer", John Kolbeck. That is not a "Christian Organization"...