Comments

I did not have "physical intimacy" with that woman...

This is idiotic! How is anyone who works in pastoring, missions work, or anywhere for the assemblies of God supposed to feel safe about coming forward and discussing their difficulties, shortcomings or even sins, and know they will receive undersdtanding, help and acceptance? Here is a guy that has served a long time,and according to them has a "sterling" record, and he has some kind of mysterious interaction with a woman that is NOT sexual, and he gets castigated, has to resign, and is done, and is then labeled a failure!

It's a sad state of affairs when the one place where people are supposed to turn for grace and help is the place where people are going to get shot down and labeled a "failure" for making a mistake. What ever happened to "Let he who is witout sin cast the first stone"?

Loving comment you made there Brad.

Strange! What did he have, physical non-intimacy or non-physical intimacy? Of course it is not our business, but some-one is not telling.

Matthew 5:28 "...whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

This man acted correctly by stepping down. People are to be an example to others must be above reproach. He obviously felt he was not above reproach.

"Sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it." (Gen 4:7)

Years ago I would have thought this was some sort of witch hunt and someone had just taken down a good man who just did something small and stupid. Today my inclination is to think this incident was just the tip of the iceberg.

Brad,
on the contrary, Dr. Wood and the A/G have shown their support and their concern for Palmer. The Bible says "Be alert. If you see your friend going wrong, correct him. If he responds, forgive him." Luke and also "Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted." Galatians 6:1. It shows much more care & concern to choose to get involved in the restoration process, which is probably the reason Palmer chose to come forth either way- to receive help, and yes there is no other way to label his action other than a failure...Dr. Wood is not calling him a failure- merely addressing that the action he chose was a failure...perhaps a failure of judgement, character etc. But never once does this report directly call John Palmer a failure...no need for reinerpretation.

So who's got the first stone?

John's a great person and pastor. I pray that he did what he felt was best for the "church" and for his family.

In respone to Kon and his quoting of Matt. 5:28, if lust disqualified you from ministry then there would be no one in church leadership.

Just to clarify -- it was I, Allyce, who quoted Matthew 5:28. The linear separations in this comment section are a bit problematic in determining who wrote what.

But I am not the one who said it; it was the apostle Matthew. I did not say lust disqualified a person from the ministry. However, I have known some preachers who seemed a bit too attracted to women who were not their wives...

What I was responding to is a previous comment that it was "idiotic" for this man to step down. I merely stated that there must have been something that caused a problem for this individual who was in a position of Christian leadership. Otherwise, he would not have felt compelled to step down. So he acted correctly.

...in response to Brad's comment:
"How is anyone who works in pastoring, missions work, or anywhere for the assemblies of God supposed to feel safe about coming forward and discussing their difficulties"

Brad, that is not the case. I am an Ordained Minister with the AG, and like any other credentialed AG minister in the US, on the back of my Credential card is an 800 number for CONFIDENTIAL counseling.

it can only be assumed here, barring actual evidence to the contrary, that Palmer went to either Woods or the Exec Presbytery knowing full well that whatever occurred, if he disclosed it, would be grounds for removal from office and a probation of his active ministry status.

You see, there is this thing called confession, and it is difficult, and it has consequences, but I guarantee you that dealing with the matter and its consequences in an open fashion is much easier than living with the lie.

Palmer has taken the first steps in restoration, and, God willing, the process will go quickly and he will return to full-time ministry (or wherever God wants him) soon.

Tim

Brad, as a minister in the same fellowship as John, I am grateful for accountability and restoration. While John's "failure" is no greater than any of mine or any other persons' there is different consequence. While there are 2 things (1. my daily walk with Jesus and 2. hard accountability from a friend) that have helped me in this area, being accountable to my movement is a big element as well. I have seen other ministers who have no accountability in this area who continue to be bound by sin.

I haven't seen anyone "cast any stones". In fact I have seen lots of love and prayer extended to John by reading his FB page to which he has responded gratefully. John is a wonderful man and I am confident he will return to ministry strong.

Within a week, AG leadership filled John Palmer's position. Dr. James Bradford, the new general secretary, earned a Ph.D in Aerospace Engineering from the University of Minnesota. So the general secretary is a rocket scientist, and Dr. Wood, the general superintendent, is an attorney and holds a doctorate in theology from Fuller Seminary. This should mess with peoples' stereotypes of Pentecostals being anti-intellectual!

I believe the man of God was defeated by temptation and could not confide with other senior man of God to help him on his weakness, I also believe that he needs much of our prayers during such a time as this.

May the LORD strenthen and keep you.I know you will live to declare the goodness of lord.I love you.

Confessing one's sins and seeking to do what is right is almost impossible to do today with the ever present media. Even where church leaders want to respect a fellow brother's privacy it is extremely difficult to do so today.

In this regard one can only feel sorrow and sadness that a brother like John Palmer has to be held up to public disgrace after being described as having "a sterling record ...as a church planter, pastor, and national leader," and whose "failure" is regarded as "an aberration from a lifetime of faithful service to the Lord, his family and ... fellowship".

This kind of unwanted, (and in Mr. Palmer's case possibly undeserved) publicity is probably the reason why so many leaders involved in inappropriate conduct do not confess and usually wait to be "found out". This incident may also make it more difficult for others to come forward.

John Palmer "confessed to a one-time incident that involved ethical misconduct and an inappropriate interaction with a woman that did not involve any physical intimacy". As vague and innocuous as this statement appears it has not shielded Mr. Palmer from the glare of the media simply because of his high position in the Church.

If one is to take this RNS news story at face value, John Palmer does not appear to be someone who has been leading a false or double life, but someone who committed some act of indiscretion on some particular occasion. If this kind of media coverage follows every such act, how many others like John Palmer will be willing to confess, but will instead opt for silence and hope that an "inappropriate interaction" will not be uncovered?

Im proud of Palmer. He realized that the situation wasn't above reproach and stepped down. If you're gonna be in leadership its important to have integrity. Jon Palmer showed that. Thank you Jon.

I sat under Pastor Palmer's ministry for a number of years. No matter what else a person may have thought of his leadership style, vision for the church, etc (and I was one with a few differing ideas), one thing is sure: NO ONE was more intospective on his spiritual walk than HE was. He was a man of prayer. It is possible that because of his very tender conscience toward the Lord, and his desire to walk purely before Him, something occurred that, though not an out-and-out sin, motivated him to "confess his fault". Just a thought. I will not throw him under the bus.

We too sat under Pator John's ministry for many years. He is one of the most Godly and genuine men we have had the blessing to be ministered by. And he does have a very tender conscience and would never want anything to cause hurt or shame be brought to his Lord. We also know that John would not want to be the cause of "anything" negative attached to the A/G fellowship and if he felt that he had, he would step down. We love you Pastor John. We know that the Lord will give strength to you & Debbie. We are praying for you & your family.
Carle & Eileen

We sat in Pastor John's church for 15 years and know he is a strong lover of the Lord Jesus, he is a man of great character and has a passion for people as they search a true relationship with God. If John has a fault it is that he thinks he has to be perfect in God's eyes and people's eyes. This is the reason Satan was continually attacking him because of his strong Godly beliefs knowing that if he, Satan, could get John to falter it would help the Devil's cause. We love Pastor John & Debbie and pray for their well being both now and in the future.

I concur totally with what Carle, Eileen and Lon have said. As a man of the cloth, Pastor John has always held himself to a high standard of integrity. Whatever unfortunate circumstance he may have found himself in, even if it was ONLY the "appearance" of evil, he did a very honorable, and no doubt very difficult thing by stepping down, thereby avoiding an invitation of reproach to the cause of Christ. In a time when worldliness and rebellion to the holy things of God are seeping into the American Church (i.e. the emergent church practices, and the very destructive false 'revival' at the Lakeland Florida AG church that leaders were sooo slow to respond to), show me a man who has a humble and repentant walk with God, and I will show you a godly man. I have nothing but respect for Pastor John. I stand by him and Debbie, and pray for (not against)their family during this time. You can't keep a good man down.

I serve in the church that Pastor John planted in Athens Ohio in the 70's. He had a lasting impact on our community and I know people who have personally been blessed by Pastor John's ministry. The congregation of New Life Assembly of God in Athens, Ohio is praying for Pastor John and Debbie and we look forward to hearing of not only his restoration but his new ministry in the future. All of us are prone to wonder. I applaud a man who will hold himself voluntarily accountable because he takes the word of God that seriously. We love you Pastor John.

Not sure what happened, and we probably will never know, but I think it is a corrupt system that wanted to get rid of Palmer and so they were looking for any reason to fire him. Being an honest man, he probably said something to someone he trusted who then told the powers-that-be and boom, he's gone.
Seriously, what is "ethical misconduct and an inappropriate interaction with a woman that did not involve any physical intimacy". That hazy statement makes me believe that there is more to this whole thing. Anyone who ever called John their "Pastor" has a right to know what he did. I don't believe in dragging people through the mud, but the AG leaders have a responsibility to disclose whatever they believe John did wrong. The higher-ups are afraid to disclose what happened, probably because it is something they or even any other AG pastor could be accused of. Let's just say that the AG denom has a lot of problems, just like every other denom, and sweeping things under the rug isn't going to fix it. I'm not going to say what will fix it, because I have no idea what will fix this mess, but every single pastor in the AG church better think twice before telling a friend/leader anything that they may be struggling with in their life, or bam, you're gone, labeled a failure, and it's pretty much a guarantee that you will never be able to minister in an AG church again.
So to reiterate, the AG denom is corrupt (just like any denom), Palmer got fired for being human, and AG pastors watch out, if you struggle with sin, you will probably lose your job and ruin your reputation.

I too sat under the ministry of Pastor John Palmer for several years, and agree with the others that he is a man of tender conscience, one with the integrity to come forward and confess to his brothers in Christ any area in which he had a problem, or felt that he had failed in the smallest degree. I pray that he and his family will be helped through this, and that the Lord will lift him from discouragement and bless him on whatever path of service is opened to him. Not all have the courage to tell those in authority over themselves of something which is certain to bring problems.

I don't know John very well. However, as an Assemblies of God minister I have always been very impressed with John's desire to help others especially young people going into ministry. I have seen John go to legnths I have never observed in others to help young ministers. I don't know what all the facts are but this I do know. I am fully convinced of my brother's sincerity and his desire to honor God. I don't profess to have all the "wisdom" some do as to how to handle every situation. But I do have the compassion to help my brother (or any other fallen brother or sister)through prayer and support. Brother John--I love you and support you.

GREG, (Feb. 27) Did you even bother to read the article (about which your comment is just about the longest one; and in which you manage to label the Assemblies of God as corrupt, that the AG wanted to get rid of Palmer...to fire him"?)

You apparently paid no attention to the comment by General Superintendent George Wood in which he speaks highly of Palmer. And FYI, Palmer was not fired. He was and is -- and I hope will remain a minister of the Assemblies of God. John resigned from his elected position, not from his credentials as an AG minister.

My wife and I, AG ministers, are praying for our dear friend and his wife.
John is respected and much-loved.

GREG

Morris Conklin, I think you tagged the wrong person. Greg's comment was fine. The comment you were speaking of was posted by "There is more to this", an individual who didn't leave a name.

You know, the mind is a strange and sometimes very mysterious being of its own...Thoughts pop into peoples heads, and most are not acted upon...if some inappropriate thought popped into Pastor Palmer's head, and being the man of God that he is, probably did hear Bible versus rolling around in his head that his thoughts were inappropriate and he needed to confess...However, We are not the All Mighty Judge,,God is,,,this could be something God had planned for him to make him even more spiritual. Comments can be made regarding "oh sure, there must be more to this story",,or "we deserve to know, since he pastored us", and the famous old Bill Clinton statement "I did not have sexual relations with that women"....Fine,,,if you want him divulge the incident, then I say, why don't we divulge something about ourselves that we may be ashamed of that we should not have thought or maybe even done, OH WAIT---we are not a Pastor, we are not in the Public Eye,,,so we don't have to..HELLO!..CAN YOU SAY "DOUBLE STANDARD". I personally don't believe God ever thought that the people he called on would never fail, how can a person that doesn't have some sort of imperfections feel for anybody, if a person hasn't suffered, how can they relate to those who confess there problems. You let him deal with this himself and God....Pastor Palmer is a Loving Person, A Man of God, A Devoted Husband and Father and if there is anything he is guilty of is caring about people with all his heart....I wish he would have stayed at the First Assembly of God in Des Moines,,,,maybe I would still have a home church....I would take him any day as my Pastor with or without flaws,,,never thought of him as Super-Human, Just Genuinely Human...We Love You Pastor Palmer.....

What he did has more than likely deeply affected the woman who was involved. And I don't mean in a positive way. What I was told that happened is very scary! Why is on one concerned for the woman? She was not a willing "participant"! Yes he confessed but after he was arrested. I would have had more respect for him if he had confessed w/o getting caught first.How do we know it was a one time incident?? I do not believe that it was something that just "popped up and he acted on out of the blue". For a man like this (and I do know him, he married my husband and I) he had to have been, at a minimum, thinking about this for a long period of time. I sometimes wonder if the internet is to blame for some of this types of "sins" due to its availability in the privacy of ones home - a media where certainly anything goes. None of us is immune so we need to be watchful!

Penny, what in the world...? Did you form your opinion from bits and pieces of info thru google? Are you absolutely certain that you are not mistaking this John M. Palmer with another who lived in the 1860's?

Oh Please, Angie. No I did NOT form my opinion based on google or someone from the 1860's. I happen to know what he did and it is not a moral or kind thing to do by any stretch of the imagination! I'm stopping short of saying what it was but believe me, it was not good. Give me a break! I KNOW what I'm talking about!

For every leader we see who has a failure, there are thousands secretly who are having moral failures. They are fighting with everything within in them not to, but find themselves trapped, living a Romans 7, miserable Christian experience. The reason is the modern church does not have a clue what Romans 6, 7 & 8 mean regarding how to live in victory over sin by simple daily faith in Christ and what He did at the Cross which alone gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work and give the believer the grace to overcome the sin nature. This is not sinless perfection but Paul taught that sin is not to have dominion over us. This message is desperately needed in the church and I thank God that Brother Jimmy Swaggart, YES Jimmy Swaggart, who is now open about his failure, (all of us have by the way so who are we to condemn people God has forgiven just as we have been forgiven ourselves?) and he is teaching this truth. After his failures He sought the Lord for several years to show him how to live victoriously over sin and God pointed him to the finished work of Christ on the Cross (Romans 6, 7 & 8) and our faith in that gives us victory. I would encourage anyone struggling secretly with sin (as I was and thousands are and will continue to do so until they understand this teaching) to listen to the free resources there concerning this. www.jsm.org. Man cannot be "rehibilitated" or "counseled" into victory. If so, why did Christ have to die on the cross to defeat sin for us? Go back to the Cross church!

Penny, I apologize. It's hard to know WHAT to believe when stories begin to swirl. I'm sorry for the condescending remark. The whole situation is a sad thing all the way around. And I do feel for everyone involved. I hate even having to talk about it, as I'm sure most everyone else is too.

I find comfort in reading and rereading God's Word. His peoples' history is a teacher and an example for us all. My friend, King David, did some pretty off the wall acts! ...but even after doing, David was still King in his Father's eyes, and a man after God's own heart. May you proceed now even stronger for Our Lord, John!

Pastor Palmer was my pastor for many years, he has seen me through the thick and thin! I know with every fiber in my body that he is man of GOD and would not do anything like what has been said!!! I have full failth in this man and no matter what is said_ I believe in him and his good works. I hope all who read this will pray for him and that he is made right in the eyes of AG.

Nic Michelfelder

Jonathon,
I concur with you about your encouragement to John, citing King David. Peter

How can I get a hold of Pastor Palmer? Tried finding him on FB with no success. He is the most wonderful person ever! Don't care what happened, he still deserves the best in life. Someone please direct me to him! Thanks...

I think the church today has become to lax in regards to Biblical principles (period). I recently had a situation in which I approached my Pastor to express some issues I had and he printed off my confidential email and distributed it among his staff and other members.. When I requested a Board meeting with the Pastor, he agreed. I told him I wanted an explanation as to why he felt he could take my private information and share it with others who were not involved, his response was "the board and I have decided not to meet with you and we hope you find a church where you can grow and be fed." I've taken the matter to the District Superintendent of the Assemblies of God and to this day 3 months later, I have yet to receive an apology or any admitting to wrongdoing... is this how conflict is handled within the Assemblies of God? Why put Pastoral code of ethics if you could care less whether or not they are followed? The leadership is supposed to be above reproach... no one is perfect, but when we wrong someone it's our obligation to make it right.

im saddened by john palmer, i really liked him. the truth is the a/g sets people up for failure. we talk forgiveness and acceptance but you have to be perfect, and since no one is perfect, you have to fake it. and faking it leads to living double lives. i caught my senior pastor watching porn in a hotel room, i didnt say anything, i couldve told others and had him destroyed. instead a few months later he fired me because i read the harry potter books and then he moved up the ladder to be the state superintendent. no ag minister is perfect and others are just waiting to prove it. inside so many people are judging john right now but the truth is he was just honest and not faking it.

This is typical A/G fodder. He thought a thought, throw him out. I was accused of "Having sex with a female student in my mind" by some psycho female at CBC, which led me to understand that the A/G encourages others to be hyper spiritual and ultra orthodox pentecostal, which is THE tool Satan has been using in the A/G to destroy it from within. The fellowship needs to be reformed, and throw out the men in power that believe they actually have power over sin in THIS life in OUR FLESHLY bodies, because that's utter nonsense and cannot be truly practiced. Once we start being open and honest with our thoughts, our faults and our weaknesses and hold each other up in Grace ALONE and not in any other way, will the A/G begin to find life again. People are out there looking for and waiting on a church that actually acts like one.

i met john palmer sunday night at new life assembly of GOD in athens ohio.im not pentecostal i belong to an alliance church.however my wife and family grew up at new life and pastor palmer planted that church.athens is ohio university country a true place where any church plant has a huge battle waged against it.john palmer started that church in a house and it exploded.my wife and in laws and many people i attend church with were touched deeply by john palmer.my impression of john is that he is one of the most anointed men i have ever met but he is a man and he will make mistakes as all men do.let he or she who is without sin cast the first stone .first remove the plank from your own eye before you ask your neighbor to remove a speck from his eye.have grace and mercy.what a wonderful man and family i feel blessed to have met him and his family.

I would forgive him, no matter what happened. Pastor Palmer, I'll pray for you and your family today. The world could use more of your kindness. I wish the rest of us in the world had the strength to admit and work on our faults. In doing so, you've taught one more important lesson about sin, forgiveness, and recovery, for those who choose to hear it. This may have even been something incredibly minor. It's not my business. I wish you well.