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I go to Church for Jesus. To be with others so the strength and spirit surrounds you anointing all. The Church is Jesus Christ and nobody else. Churches across America should all give a percentage of tithes to the greater good of the world.
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.Matt 22:36-40

36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like it You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. The latter is lacking in all of America!

Thanks for your piece!

NPC would do well to listen and pay attention.

Curiously, JP Moreland, author of Kingdom Triangle, is offering a conference this evening and tomorrow for more of an emphasis on being refreshed and renewed.

http://www.kingdomtriangle.com/speaking/events.asp

I say "curiously" because at the bottom of the NPC web page, Moreland's conference is plugged and it is being held at San Diego's Town & Country Resort.

Mark,

Right on the money!

In my estimation, pastors are the most important influencers on the planet not because of them but because of their call or their charge. And the local church is the most important organization of people on the planet not because of their greatness but because of their call and commission.

I say all of this, not as a pastor and nor am I even involved in some sort of full-time capacity at my church. But I say this as a 29 year old who has grown-up in the church and who loves more than ever who the church is because of who she is called to be. And I also say this as someone who's experienced church splits and have endured wacky leadership.

Moreover, I am so sick and tired of how we beat-up on the church. I am all for honest and helpful feedback. But there is such a critical spirit among our own that I can't reconcile it with the heart of the Great Shepherd.

Very helpful, Mark!

With the explosion of parachurch organizations in the last 50 years, whether your talking educational outfits, niche or demographically-targeted associations, or even entire leadership networks, the local church, the local congregation, and the local pastor is absolutely and utterly drowned in a sea of information, resources, and competing authorities.

Consequently, it is my opinion that these have been more help rather than harm and it has cause immense distraction when it concerns a pastor's priorities and calling. For example, pastors feel the need to constantly be moving on to the next "big thing" instead of focusing on what is already in their stewardship: loving and caring of the sheep.

Moreover, it doesn't help when you have Barna research, which generally tilts rather critical of the church, influence so many pastors and their identity as it does. For example, if you read Barna habitually, you'd think that the church and pastors are altogether incompetent. I can't recall the last time that I read any good news about the church from that source. I am not saying sugar-coat-it, but for goodness sake don't fuel inaccuracies or overstated criticisms of the church.

Of course, it's not just Barna. But it is the collective influence of parachurch organizations that has often been more harm than help. These sorts of outfits were originally intended to come alongside and in support of the church. But most are disconnected, unassociated, unaccountable by their own individualism, and way too nationalized in their scope and ambition to be any earthly and local good.

So, Mark, you are on to something important here. And it would serve CT well to explore this issue further.

If you want to get the real inside "scoop" on what pastors today must "put up with" in the church and society, read: What Pastors Wish Church Members Knew (a new release by Zondervan).It will shock you! It will make you wonder why a person ever becomes a pastor. It will make you realize that people become pastors, not because they are trying to make a difference in the world (although I'm sure that's true, too), but because GOD calls them to the hard post of church pastor.

I think part of the problem with relationships between pastors and their congregation is, the pastors view their people as not as bright, not as spiritual, as himself. This attitude comes out in subtle ways. Some pastors think of themselves as some great God's Man of Faith and Power trying to go into the world to slay dragons and they are stuck with these dull witted small minded ignorant pieces of flesh they must push and cajole into giving enough tithes so they can live a lifesyle of luxury. If they would see that God has given him these people to love and to lead into a better understanding of God's Amazing Grace, they would become the kind of saints who go out into the world to serve one another. Pastors are the most irritating, self serving, pompous group of people on the planet. They have no idea of Jesus's words about being a servant. They come to their congregations wanting to BE SERVED. They just don't get it. No wonder their sheep won't follow them.

Father in Heaven,
Preserve us from opinionated, over-zealous, goal-driven, Type A, choleric pastors!!! Mark, you're right: I haven't felt really loved by a pastoral staff member in years....if ever.

I once was a pastor and now I am a lay person. Frankly (and with grace and love I hope!) I've observed that it is much more frustrating NOW trying to do Kingdom work with pastors than it was before, working and ministering to and with the laity!!!

Interesting--almost shocking--observation by Mark Galli. Perhaps Sam hit the nail squarely on the head when he cited Barna's negative polls as part of the problem. There is truth in some of Barna's observations, but not all of his polls are accurate. I've been in the church all my life--almost 66 years, and I don't often recognize the people Barna's been talking to. Anyone who believes everything he tells us is going to get even more negative about his church. How do I stay positive in pastoring today? How do I love the people?--albeit imperfectly. I have two good models in Jesus Christ and the apostle Paul. Whatever negative flak we've taken from churches, they took more from people who opposed them. Jesus was hunted and demonized, but he kept going back to minister to anyone who wanted his compassion. Paul said at one point he was through with the Jews. And then we see him preaching to them again! He couldn't help it. God's love compelled him. We pastors need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and let God love his people in us.

Mark,
It's good to start Valentine's Day with a good laugh, and your second sentence provided that for me! The angry missional pastor! What a marvelous concept.

You noted only two authors who point to the tough task of loving the church. I'd like to add a third -- Gordon MacDonald. In chapter 2 of Who Stole My Church? he tells the story of learning about loving the church that Jesus died for, loves today, and which belongs to Him.

Perhaps a help would be to learn to listen deeply to what the church is saying, rather than trying to impose our particular vision upon it. God may be speaking a lot more than we realize through our people!

Pastoring is about people. The pastor who wants to "change the world" will find it easier to do if he involves the congreagtion.

Even Alexander the Great had to acknowledge that armies not generals conquer the world, and a leader is only as good or great as those he leads.

Some pastors need to answer the question posed by one old wise minister to a young would be conqueror, "is you sent, or are you went"? If you are "sent" it is to move people not mountains; the people will move the mountains.

It is not that pastors are not loving, it is that they are impatient. They want the glamour of ministry without the grind. These need to understand that some kinds come out only "by fasing and praying".

Mark, to me you come across condescending (and I agree with your point). You give the sense that you are above all these pastors - as if you were once there but have surpassed that level of silliness. Don't you think Pastors are aware that they are called to love their church? Do you honestly think we don't know the call or the difficulty of that? Come on.

My question for you is not whether or not you can see the problem (any can) my question is, now that you "aren't what you once were" what would be your suggested theme for the next conference?

I think that you missed the point, Mark! Many of the sessions that you criticize were about "loving your neighbour as yourself" -- and the pastors who attended those sessions were weary of their continuing efforts both to please congregants who don't want to step out of the doors of their churches to find out who their neighbours are, let alone to love them, and to fulfill Jesus's assignment to pastors to love and to equip the saints for ministry to people outside the church as well as inside. Jesus demonstrated repeatedly that a pastor can both love and be frustrated with her/his flock ("How long do I have to put up with you?!"; "How can you still not have faith?!"; "You foolish and wicked generation!"); I would think you'd applaud the pastors' continuing service in the face of longsuffering as evidence of their love, rather than proposing another way to criticize them. I'm curious what other pastors who were actually there (as I was) think of Mark's comments.

I've heard people refer to this as a form of gnosticism. We want the spiritual and the perfect and do not want to love on the imperfect fleshly and carnal people who dwell in God's midst day after day, year after year. Didn't Henri Nouwen put it well when he said "The church is the place where the person you like the least lives every day". Discipleship is a life long and difficult process that begins with the understanding the Christ died for sinners.

Not to make light of this problem here but didn't Paul, Ignatius, Augustine, Luther and Graham have the same gripes? Could this be a problem universally found every period of church history? But what as been stated Ad nauseam is that we are children of our times. We are consumers in a consumer focused culture. The church is not immune to this. And we expect the pastor to hand us the product that we feel that we deserve. (whatever that may be) If this indeed is a very serious issue than it needs to be fixed. If not we will continue to look to the areas south and eat of this country to see Christianity flourish and grow.

Amen. I have been a campus pastor with university students for 21 years and one thing I have learned about this call is to love the students I serve and lead. I think it must be the same for pastors congregations, they are called to love their churches. If pastors do not love the church they serve and lead, the church Christ died for, why would the world seek that church out for help, for grace, for truth?

The reason a gathering of pastors is so incredibly negative is because they deal daily with issues that the laity could not handle for one day. the constant influx and deluge of people with agendas, differing theologies, competing purposes, and prideful arrogances simply cannot be understood unless you have been called to it and walked through it.
I can understand the assessments given above, however, they are not based on reality. And at the risk of being accused of thinking myself and other pastors "above" lay-people, no lay person I have ever known could do what we do. I would not do it for one hour if I were not forced to it by the call.
No amount of money, recognition, desire for leadership, prideful ambition, or personal satisfaction could ever sustain anyone in the office of Pastor were they not specifically called to it by a Sovereign God.
If I were allowed I would resign today, sell everything I have, buy and acre of swamp in the middle of nowhere and set as a goal to never see another human being as long as I live. And folks, that is coming from a man confirmed by lifelong friends and congregants as "Mercy-gifted" and "Encouragement-gifted". My sister-in-law gave me a t-shirt last year that had a cup on it the said "half-full". That is who I am. In Christ.
I love the church and I love what I do. I hate the church and I wouldn't do it an hour longer, without the call.
If you look at your pastor and think what he does is prepare and preach sermons for people he considers beneath him, understand you aren't even in the ball park. If you think you could do a better job, you might be right. For a day, or a week, but five years in, or ten, you would likely be a weeping, slobbering heap in the corner, if you weren't specifically called to it.
Why would an assembly of Pastors be negative? Because they do more, put up with more, weep more, pray more, defend more, love more in a week than you will ever understand unless you walk through it. They deal constantly with being underestimated, under-supported, mis-understood, deceived, decried, derided, and depressed. We get lied-to, lied about, talked-about, betrayed, cut-to-pieces, and cut-to-the- heart.
And if we get the chance to get in a room with others who have been through the same thing and actually open up to let it all out, please don't make judgments based on limited experience. The truest statement not in the bible? Only pastors can understand pastors.

"What occurs to very few pastors--I only heard it from Will Willimon and Larry Osborne--is the difficult passion to love the church. To be sure, love can be tough. But love should also be tender."

While I appreciate the hearts of the writer and those who responded. The statement above is simply not true. Anyone who has been a Pastor beyond the "honeymoon" period has loved the church, especially when it was unlovable. Not only has it occurred to them, they have been forced to their knees repeatedly by that love. Continuing to love as we have been loved is the only thing that can sustain year after year.

Part of the challenge is our perception of church "culture." All churches are filled with real people with real problems and real prejudices and that includes those who consider themselves the most "faithful" (pastors and laity). Unfortunately, pastors and church goers have unrealistic expectations of that culture. And when people eventually (pastors and laity) act out of their brokenness or prejudice, the faithful act surprised.

People are people, and as pastors we are called to connect them with Jesus by loving them, leading them, comforting them, and walking with them throughout this life. Unfortunately, the kind of pastor I described is rarely written about in books or magazine articles, nor addressed in conferences. Just like the secular media, the church media seems more interested in "celebrity pastors" who, in reality, do very little pastoring. So much that is written is about is the illusion of success based on drawing a mega-crowd using techniques, technology or methods that the newest celebrity has developed. In our mega-mentality, the role of pastor, as sojourner with the people is all but overlooked. And so the unrealistic perception of church culture is perpetuated, and yet we wonder why pastors are so conflicted.

Pastor Dwayne Mitch Sponsel of the Christ Evangelical Ministry in London says he needs a bunch of money for the medical treatment of a fellow pastor who was burned in a church fire which was set by Islamic fundamentalists. I'll have Reverend Stu Pidass take this one.

Conventions within the thread:

E-mails from the fraudsters are in black.
E-mails from me (Stu Pidass) are in italicized green.
Red X's represent characters that have been changed to protect personal info.
Comments from me are in bold black.

The game commences with the scammer's initial e-mail.
Dear Brethren in Christ
I am pastor Dwayne Mitch Sponsel of the CHRIST EVANGELICAL MINISTRY in London. I'm writing this letter to you all with tear and pain all over my eyes, because it is barely one month now i return from a crusade in Nigeria west Africa , it was my first visit to that part of the world. It was a great miracle crusade and many gave their life's to Christ to the glory of God, indeed it was a miraculous crusade many healing s from various kinds of diseases and chronic ailment, i have not seen miracle like this in my entire life, I must say god love our brethren in Africa.
Dear brothers and sisters in Christ it hurt me so much to see that the church which i was invited as a guest preacher as be burnt off by some Islamic fundamentalist due to the recent prophet Mohammad cartoon drawing in Denmark and also some members lost their life's and the pastor was seriously burnt and it need a medical surgery urgently and the doctors report say that it will cost $110,200 and also the cost of rebuilding the church will cost $55,000.
Please brethren in Christ, i 'm appealing to you all on behalf of the church and pastor Gabriel to come to their aid to enable him undergo a plastic surgery and to see that the church is rebuild again. Dear brethren in Christ, i want you to know that as we Christians we are going through a difficult time in our life, even some of us has lost their life in this process. i want you to know that our father in heaven have not forsaken us, he love us and he want us to be united as one and render assistance to one another in times of need, so brethren in Christ, let us give as much as little we can so that the world will know that we christian are united.
I want you all to give this as a seed offering unto God and the almighty father will bless you all openly and abundantly in Jesus name "Amen". Please note that i do not received donation here in London, all donation are to be sent to the assistance pastor of the church in Nigeria through western union money transfer or money gram. Please all reply to my yahoo mail box.Thanks

MY BEST REGARDS.GODSWILL JAMES
PASTOR MITCH SPonsel:
CHRIST EVANGELICAL MINISTRY
213,BALHAM HIGH ROAD,
SW177BQ, LONDON.