This is truly disturbing on many fronts, but perhaps most disturbing is that abortion is deemed a greater sin than raping a 9-year old. May God have mercy on us all.

The archbishop refers to God's Law. Yet abortion is nowhere forbidden in the Bible; indeed, it isn't even mentioned. So the Church applies the fifth commandment: Thou shalt not kill. Well, look who's talking--the Catholic Church ranks right behind folks like Nero, Caligula, Hitler, and Stalin when it comes to killing those who have disagreed with it over the centuries. If the Church had had its way, the girl would have died a slow and painful death, with her twins, when they would have grown too big for her little body. Killed by the Church, all three of them. Thou shalt not kill, indeed.

The mother and the doctors have been excommunicated. But not the stepfather, he who broke an actual command in God's Law: Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter (Lev. 18:17). The punishment to be administered is spelled out in clear: Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people (Lev. 18:29). Excommunicated, that is. Mandated in God's Law, but not carried out by the Church, because the poor sinner is a man. In the eyes of the Church, he's still a Catholic in good standing.

The misogynism of conservative so-called Christians comes from the same Middle Eastern tradition as that of conservative Muslims like the Taleban: Woman, even at nine years old, is but a vessel meant to bear sons for a man. She has no rights, particularly not over her own body. If there are complications with a pregnancy and a choice has to be made, always let the woman die: she has no value, and the baby might be a son.

For more on failed religious institutions, read my free e-book.

I could give two hoots about excommunication in itself but the message that it sends and that people implicitly accept by remaining in the church is just mind boggling. What gets me is that its not just some regional representative, the Vatican is backing him up. So their reasoning (evident in the fact they have excommunicated a 9 year old girl and her doctors but not her abusive stepfather) is that God chose to simultaneously bring two new lives into the world through the agency of a 9 year girl who, according to her testimony, had been raped by her stepfather since the age of six until finally, I guess, her body succumbed to the Lord's will.

Truly, truly, the Lord does work in mysterious ways.

BTW I'm an atheist. I use "God" and "Lord" to describe those specific hypothetical entities described in the christian bible.

God gave us minds and hearts to reason with! How does condemning the 80-pound, 9-year-old girl to an almost certain death if she carried twins to term uphold a "culture of life." How could that possibly be what God would want?

And, refusing to excommunicate the stepfather who repeatedly raped the girl over a number of years because that's somehow less of a crime than the abortion to save the girl's life? That tells me all I need to know about the archbishop: The archbishop and those at the vatican who agree with his decisions are as morally depraved as the stepfather/rapist himself.

i am a radical pro-life activist but in this case i would want to know for sure that the 9 yr of age child could survive birth of twins

i would more than likely favor abortion even though i am against abortion.

This disgusts me. Truly.

This is the flip side of the coin of that born-alive horror story. In both cases, activists on either side care little for the real lives involved and more for their cause. It's time for thoughtful people of moderation everywhere to reject the ideologues on either extreme and find a better way.

God bless this poor little girl, her mother, and the doctors who ministered to her.

May observation is the the Catholic Church in Latin American counties is still in the dark ages. Plus more superstition and mingling with folk beliefs.

As a Catholic, I am truly horrified by the Vatican's defense of Archbishop Sobrinho's action. What's going to happen now--a Stalinist purge of American Catholics?

I can't imagine the poor girl even realized the enormity of what was happening to her. The doctors and her mother made a difficult decision that probably saved her life. Most likely, her uterus would have ruptured and she could have died had she been made to try to carry two babies to term. I'm sure as Catholics, their decision caused great anguish. But there is no doubt in my mind that the souls of those babies are with the Father even now; His newest angels. I do NOT believe that our Lord Jesus would call this murder... He might, however, have quite a few words to say to the truly evil person in this whole mess - the girl's stepfather. I hope so - because it seems the Church has been much too silent on his culpability in the whole awful mess! I don't understand why this little girl's life wasn't just as important to the Church as the unborn lives she was forced, by being raped, to carry in her small body.

All this time I thought that the issue is the "life of the child". What about the 9-year old child who would die if this process were to continue? It does look like the Catholic church is becoming increasingly inflexible, using sophistic arguments to justify its anti-abortion policies in extreme situations.

It truly amazes me that people are so anti catholic, including baptized but secularized catholics themselves that nobody has noticed that the church based its statement on the fact that medical specialists said her life was NOT in danger and that she could carry the children to term with a C section. Where is the reporting on this? She had to go to another hospital to find a doctor who would say that her life was at risk. Thus, these 4.5 month old twins who are fully formed at that point are aborted and everyone attacks the Church for defending their life and condemning a girl to die, when she wouldn't have died.

If the consensus was that her life was indeed threatened, the Church would not have announced an excommunication, because the automatic excommunication would not apply. As for the rapist. the church has called for him to be punished, and he is not in communion with the church. Both the abortion doctors and the rapist cannot take the sacraments at the church.

I would be more careful in becoming angry at catholic church. If you notice, the media which are informing about this case are mainly secular, very anti-catholic oriented. First when I read about it I was shocked. But I went to my pastor and asked him about it. He didn't know anything about it but told me to be careful because the information I have is very little. I still don't have enough information 3 days later, but I've found this at least:
http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=2232
as a catholic answer: every one who helps/participates in killing an innocent baby is automatically excomunicated. The thing that bugs me now is that I always thought that when life of the mother is in danger, the abortion is excusable from the view of church(as the point is to save the mother) and therefore excomunication is not present. I hope to find out, I'll ask my pastor again on Sunday, maybe he made some research, he has surely more knowledge of church teachings than I do.

Btw, nowhere in the article is written that the girl was excomunicated(or at least I see only mentioning of excomunicating of doctors and mother)... I begin to think: how much is actually the truth and how much what people who read it added from their fantasy?

Well, this is more than a delicate situation to be sure - but again, you have to be a bit rational. I have not sought God's face on what is the "right answer" - this is just out of my heart. If the key issue is life you are asking youself to decide between two choices: kill the unborn twins, save the girl; or let her to birth and most likely lose the three of them. Regardless of what you choose - someone's going to die. It's a hard decision - but it has to be made. God forgive me, I think they made the right choice saving the girl.

Please note: the bible actually states the commandment (according to the KJV) as "thou shalt not commit murder". If "killing" was a sin - you'd be sinning everytime you eat a steak - someone had to "kill" it. Murder is not the same as killing. Please feel free to reference any dictionaries or lexicons for further reasearch on the topic.

Totally agree with Christian E. This is more about Church bashing and exploiting this poor child for the prochoice cause. The child was not excommunicated. The father was already not in communion. The doctor and the mother, imo, are both guilty of abuse and murder. How do explain to 9 year old child that her babies were aborted when she knew her life was not in danger? It seems the Church is the only entity offering the poor child any protection or security. It seems she may have been safer in the hospital with constant care at least trying bring good from all the evil forced on her by her family.

I found the news story so multi-dimensional and complex ; i really don't feel competent enough to comment on it in terms of moral theology .

I would like to thank , Ernest and John for their posts above , ( the last two ) ; as they have helped me understand it better I believe from how God sees it ; versus how the media is USING it almost in a rabid anti-theist and anti God way ; as they have not reported what the above posts reveal ; that her life was not in danger had she had a c section .

Thx u very much for helping me understand the whole story better ; and thx u CT for this fine ecumenical forum to learn things from other Christians ; and also how other people think as well .

Sincerely , Tom in EU .

We have no way of knowing all of the actual details. We can only know what God lay's on our hearts, as individuals.
It strikes me as highly unlikely that the babies , yes they were idividuals as well, would have survived their mothers death. In the only similar case I know of, the mother and child died both were lost. The adult parents chose to try to cary the child to term, following what God had layed on their hearts.
If in fact, the child could not have been carried to term, I would not have faulted the child and her mothers decision. In any case, the decision was between the women and God. Some decisions are hard, we make them as best we can and God will judge us according to our heart.

I'm a Catholic from a Latin American country (Mexico) and found Basil comments about our institution in this region been in the dark ages, completely out of context since you are obviously not latin and also about how he avoid the fact that Church is 'attacking' 'culture of death' everywhere, so if this case could have happened in the USA, Europe or Asia, it's likely to have been a similar reaction IMHO. But well, I believe that even if media have been twistting or hiding information from this case, the fact that this young girl would have seen her body development interrupted IS A REALITY no matter if she could have carry on with the 'pregnancy' or not, and I think it's understandable why she (I hope) decided to abort.
How could a girl who doesn't even could be labeled as a teenager, carry on with giving birth two lives, when she by no means was it suppossed to be passing through this situation! The whole background is unknown to us and to media, so giving any speeches about her family and stuff it's pointless, but the only thing that bothers me to no end it's that about 'abortion been a greater sin than rape'!!! Forgive me God about this but that Archbishop has no right to spill stupidities about something he doesn't understand like passing through an abuse and for the most a pregnancy when you are not even concious of your body!!! That man it's way too wrong!
Sometimes I wonder if all this sudden inflexibility from Catholic Church will be a sort of test to see how many stay in there even if we may have our differences with what 'Church's Public' personalities decide to come next..I guess everything is about believing and have been witnesses of the miracles of our faith.

This is very interesting. So they excommunicate the mother of the 9-year old, the doctors and anyone that helped to support this abortion and to make it happen; however, they didn't excommunicate the sicko who caused all of this to happen.
Take this RCC:

Let's see.
According to Leviticus (18:17):
"Thou shat not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
(18:29) For whomsoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
Seems this should be thrown into the face of the Vatican.
After all IT IS IN THE BIBLE and IS GOD'S LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am I the only one that is supporting the church here? You don't even have to be a Catholic to see the massive balls on these guys. They're the only organized religion to unceasingly uphold that abortion is wrong, period. And they have been doing it for 2000 years. THAT is some serious hutzpah.

Am I the only one that is supporting the church here? You don't even have to be a Catholic to see the massive balls on these guys. They're the only organized religion to unceasingly uphold that abortion is wrong, period. And they have been doing it for 2000 years. THAT is some serious hutzpah.

I wish that every church, no matter what denomination it be, would remember that their judgment against others will be judged against them at their hour, and that Jesus will be their to hold the hand of their victim and lead them to Heaven first.

May our Father's hand protect this child, and may Jesus let her grow in grace.

kewal,
I understand your (rightful) rage. For clarification, when a person commits any mortal sin, they "cut themselves off" whether it be rape, incest, sex outside of marriage, murder, theft, etc. Excommunication is a public pronouncement of this reality. Yes it's more "visible" to J.Q. Public, but the person with mortal sin is just as spiritually dead as the person who was excommunicated.

There's nothing to be thrown in anyone's faces...