Religion that Jesus opposed when he walked the earth will be no great loss for the United States. Our liberty will unfortunately. The road to socialism that the President and our Congress are marching us toward is far worse than losing institutionalized religion. Believers who have a relationship with their Creator and believe his Son Jesus died for their sins on the cross and are filled with the Holy Spirit will not be affected by already dead churches closing their doors. In fact, I believe God will use this time to bring millions of souls to Him. The real losers are those who worked hard and those who shed their blood on the battlefields to make their own living and preserve our freedom from oppression. Christians have been persecuted in the past and we probably will in the future but our life is an eternal one and we are only on this earth physically for a short while. It would be nicer while we were here if we could be free however but I know God still wins in the end! Praise Him.

Mark,

I thought of your criticism of the study, too, and indeed I don't think Christians should live as carrion fowl off the carcass of failed capitalism. But I think Wilcox is making a deeper point, not about what socialism does to churches, but what it does to the society, to wit:

"To secularists and religious skeptics, this may seem no great loss. Who cares if Americans substitute “In God We Trust” for “In Government We Trust”? But as political scientist Alan Wolfe observed in Whose Keeper?, one of the primary dangers associated with the rise of the nanny state is that “when government assumes moral responsibility for others, people are less likely to do so themselves.” Wolfe noted that large increases in welfare spending in Sweden, Denmark and Norway over the last half century have ended up eroding the moral fabric of families and civic institutions in these societies. Scandinavians have come to depend not on family, civil society, or themselves, but on the government for their basic needs."

Best,

Stan

Utter nonsense. This is conservative fear-mongering.

The author does understand the independent character of Americans and their faith. Clearly there is a credibility gap in the flawed logic of this article that Americans will suddenly transform into into Europeans - pure malarky.

If anything Obama's character suggests that he will actually 'walk the talk' putting his faith into his actions. This will a dramatic reversal of the immoral conduct of the last eight years.

Religion in America will be fine, regardless of the conservative babble trying to scare folks otherwise. This is just more baloney from those who hope America fails.

There was a time in this country when local governments actually elected socialists and christians wrote in favor of socialism. Read you history and just don't dismiss it as "liberal social gospel". Consider that perhaps many christians may have been atleast partially brainwashed by years indoctrination by Fox News, conservative talk radio, and even so-called "christian radio (which spends about half it's time demonizing all things "liberal". And I'm not defending the Obama adminstration when I say this either. I have problems with his approach-for instance saying you are going to pull out of Iraq (but leave 50,000 soldiers there indefinitely) and moving more soldiers to Afghanistan (what's our purpose in occupying that country)?

And for all you people crying about budget deficits and fiscal irresponsibility-why aren't you calling for 50% reduction in defense related spending? When have we heard this discussed? And why not? Did all this spending stop a couple of fanactics with box cutters on an airplane back in 2001?

Why does a President and Congress who want to move us left on the spectrum automatically equate to making us socialists? There seem to be plenty of positions between the policies by which America has governed itself for the past 30 years and socialism. There needs to be more nuance in your summary of this paper. It seems to suggest that none of Mr. Obama's policies could actually be good for the United States of America.

I'm sure that if Jesus was confident that the gates of Hell couldn't overcome his church that any policies that American politicians can come up will be even more ineffective at destroying it.

I'm sorry. I missed your concluding paragraph on my initial reading.

I think the main point is -- where do we look for help to fix the problems of the day (social, political, economic, etc.)? The civil government does have a roll, but it cannot do everything. The greater burden falls on individual responsibility (Jesus tells you and me to feed the hungry, clothe the naked...) but when the civil government tries to do it all (welfare, education, military, stmulating the economy, etc) it results in two things: 1) it is grossly inefficient and ineffective on the local scene, and 2) it trains the populace to look to big government for help rather than to provide help neighbor to neighbor (thus you see the eroding moral fabric of families and civic institutions in Sweden, Denmark and Norway over the last half century).

We think the problems are so big that only the federal government can tackle it, when the reality is, the more pervasive the problem, the more important it is for local citizens, motivated by Christian love, work to deal with it locally.

Conservative fear-mongering? One who so clearly identifies another as "conservative" must then be of another political persuasion. How can those who subscribe to humanistic liberal theology reconcile their beliefs with the inspired Scripture, the Word of God? Clearly the Word speaks against the taking of innocent human life by the hands of another (abortion) and against unnatural sexual desires--man with man, and woman with woman (homosexuality). At what point in one's political beliefs is it time to sit back and realize who's agenda you believe in and promote? Those are clearly against God's Word, whether the secular realm wants to acknowledge it or not....and it has zero to do with being a "fear-monger"--and quite a bit to do with governments stepping into the role in which the CHURCH is commanded by God to fill. WE should be fathering the fatherless, taking care of widows and orphans, and reaching a hand to help those in need, while at the same time sharing the love of Jesus Christ!

Among South-East Asian nations, the nation state of Singapore comes closest to a nanny state socialism, albeit still far from the Scandinavian models. Christianity has flourished in Singapore.

As a Christian to ask the question of what "social climate" Christianity flourishes in is to misunderstand the nature of the conversion and faith. God calls and saves in every environ those that are His. Granted todays popular message that many preach, a material or social gospel to which the emphasis on individual felt needs are the objective, makes particular environs more suitable to attract followers just as other "religions". They naturally see swings in attendance depending upon who is giving "the fishes and loaves" and what the latest threat is, but have nothing to do with the true follower of the Lord..

Second, the questions of which instituition is either more able to deal with societal woes, promote civic virtues, and moral responsibilty must be considered in light of Gods word. The church is called to bear witness to its Saviour and Creator and show forth "good works, which God prepared in advance for us to walk in them". Government also has a role in bringing about righteousness as Gods ordained ministers for justice, and equity and promoting good and should be expected to fulfill its call, just as Christians should theirs.

However the socialist form of government will always cross the line for which God designed for it because at its heart, it seeks to usurp God from His throne and place Government there instead (as we see in this administration moreso then the last). In that society, God Himself will allow it to suffer its natural consequences....for when the wicked rule, the people mourn.

What witless nonsense. If a religion is just 'one more interest group' as the writer queries and depends on social hardship to gain followers, it speaks poorly for the way in which the religion is valued. In my view this is a good thing because, on balance' I see religion as a bad thing and if people must look to religion for guidance on moral issues, the future looks bleak for all of us. But it is the remark 'large increases in welfare spending in Sweden, Denmark and Norway over the last half century have ended up eroding the moral fabric of families and civic institutions in these societies' that takes my breath away. Wolfe would do well to look to these countries and learn from them.

What is the point of making a comment, when you just ignore it?

Fascinating stuff, and it does surface an unfortunate reality in the way that contemporary Christianity has expressed itself.

What seems to go unmentioned by posters here is that the states in question are social democracies. They aren't autocratic or oppressive. They are, in fact, productive allies...if being an ally of the United States matters to you. We're not talking Stalin here, folks. We're talking about nations that have democratically elected governments, free presses, and that are generally far more open to individual liberty than we are.

There's nuance here, people.