Comments

We need more press about this from a Christian perspective. I have been on Christian message boards and am shocked by the lack of Christian thinking that is going on around torture. Even when people are told what has been done is illegal, they still try to justify it as protecting the country. I have had people tell me torture is justified because the state has the right to punish. But that is completely wrong thinking. The state does have the right to punish according to scripture. But torture is not punishment. It is done for information not punishment.

I think the "it is ok because it get info" is the most insidious argument. It ignores the law, it ignores human rights and it ignores the fact that most info is often wrong. FBI has a lots of studies that say that proper interegation without torture is more effective.

I'm grateful to see that even if a majority of evangelicals support tortures, at least the leaders. I think you make a great point. Even if torture did work, should that be the argument in support of it when we'll reject (rightly, I will say) abortion, euthanasia, and other atrocities even if they "bring results."
I see no difference between the torture of today and the infamous Inquisition, which also used torture "for the greater good."

Sadly, this survey demonstrates what others have observed in American evangelicalism for a long time now: American Christians are not biblically equipped to think critically about ethics, and American Christians are "Americans" first and "Christians" second. Are we at all surprised the white American church is in decline? If those who are leaving are torture lovers, then good riddance.

You may want to rethink your stance. You are arguing with the same stance as the pro-abortion industry. You have not identified the difference between unborn children who don’t have a choice and an identified, caught in the act of war, terrorist. The reasons Christians are prolife are many, but one of them is that we stand up for those who can not stand up for themselves. A terrorist who has actionable intelligence has chosen his/her side and stood up. Another point is, the world knows that our combat soldiers already receive treatment that is a much harsher than our so called “enhanced interrogation techniques”. Read Romans 13:4

This strikes me as a nonsensical survey. There is nothing in the story to indicate that "torture" was defined. Since the media treat everything from emotional stress to momentary discomfort to pulling out toenails all as torture, the definition of terms becomes rather important if one is to draw conclusions about the moral status of church-going Evangelicals who probably think the deaths of thousands morally problematic, too.

I'm also a bit skeptical about the moral authority on issues of this complexity of "Leadership." Nor is utilitarianism the same as the usual "lesser evil" standard used by Christians who aren't pacifists.

Why should American Christians be "reminded" of the Golden Rule? It is a sad day in the life of the American church when we have to be reminded to think like Jesus. Even if Evangelical Leaders have come out against torture, it has not filtered down to the pews. What does it say about the American church when "secular" individual have more "Christ-like" morals?

Still bothered by not quite knowing how the question was posed and whether or not there's a real language element here [as touched on in the article]. I simply don't accept the conclusion at face value, as quick as I am in other instances to criticize what passes as "evangelical thinking". I am not buying the reporting on this at all.

The exact wording is "Do you think the use of torture against suspected terrorists in order to gain important information can often be justified, sometimes be justified, rarely be justified, or never be justified?" (according to the Pew website).

I actually think is is a badly worded question because there is an assumption in the question that says that reliable information can be obtained through torture.

If you would like a summary of the laws that deal with US torture please go here

http://phronesisaical.blogspot.com/2009/04/quick-review-of-torture-law.html

It is quite clear that what has been done in the US and around the world in our name is torture and it is illegal.

Surveys can have a lot of errors depending on the sample population of the respondents. 742 is a very small sample for the US population and thus this research has a very very high "margin of error" in statistical terms. The problem is the media likes to sensationalize a research on religion especially when it is so negative without really checking the validity and reliability of the research. Another research should cross-validate the data on the news with a bigger population sample from different parts of the US. As for me and most statisticians this recent kind of research is most likely unreliable, invalid, and has a very wide range of "margin of error". Most likely the one who did this research has a hidden agenda/motive against religious people, particularly to Evangelical and Catholic Christians.

I'm not sure why anybody is surprised by these findings (which, by the way, show that the least religious are the most opposed to torture).

The hallmark of monotheistic religions is an us-vs-them mentality with one side always claiming to be the 'chosen people' of a certain supernatural deity, who are in a constant struggle against the 'enemies of god.' Add in simplistic thinking, a bias against logic and reason, and a 'god-loves-me-best' mentality -- and what do you have? You've got a torture chamber waiting to happen.

Evangelicals are probably the most law abiding segment of society and nationalistic too. Nationalism vs Christian values sometimes seem at odds. Have we loved our enimies done good to those who persecute us. Have we treated the prisoner as one of our own. Fed the hungry taken care of the widow. Do we lend without expecting anything in return, Do we forgive debts every 7 years and return someones ancestral land to them. Maybe we need to redefine evangelical and separate us from the potlitico personna. I love this country there are many good things but I don't fly the flag as much as I used too perhaps it is my personal situation but I do believe in "One Nation Under God Indivisble with Justice for All."

To bren kryg:

This survey was done by Pew. One of the most widely respected polling organizations in the world. They specialize in surveying around religion. That does not mean they never make a mistake but they do their work well. Last year, when CT (and others) questioned the wording of a survey about universalism they completely redid the survey.

Dismissing a survey because you don't like the results does not make it true.

The different results based on the question are fascinating. Here's what I posted on Jesus Creed: "Torture is never justified. The fact that so many Evangelicals support it is sickening. Frankly I think the problem relates to Ehrman's critique of evangelicals in holding the Bible to be infallible. This often results in supporting all of the horrific violence that God "supposedly" orchestrated. Lastly, when we use torture or "enhanced interrogation techniques" against terrorists (the least of these) we do so to Christ.

Jesus didn't teach a "this world" nationalistic agenda, or a particular form of civil government. The current (30 year) evangelical obsession with America as a "Christian" nation (largely driven by the works of R.J. Rushoony) severely contradicts this claim when torture is rationalized to acceptance. The mixing of civil governmental power and religious ideology has always proven to be a bad idea. Prior to Constantine coming to power in 312 AD, the teaching of the early church was pacifistic; see Kenneth Scott Latourette's two volume work on Christian history; also works of Hippolytus, Tertullian, Origen, etc.. It seems the Evangelical movement's striving after civil power emanates from its loss of moral power; they preach and pound the pulpit claiming the provision of God's power, then go out striving after worldly power. Satan's offer to Jesus of this world's kingdoms didn't work on Him, unfortunately, it appears, it did on them.

The author makes good points. Evangelicals supported torture because of a lack of critical thinking and questioning on the issue. I think the problem was this type of thinking: George Bush was a evangelical president put in place for "such a time as this....", why should we question the policies of our godly leader? If they are feeling remorseful, Christians could atone for their previous support of torture by calling for Obama to either pardonor or recommend the Justice Dept. prosecute those who authorize the torture (namely, Cheney and Bush). While we are at it we could pressure Obama to actually leave Iraq and Afghanistan and end the whole "war on terror"/long war type of thinking, which creates more terrorists than it could ever possible kill.

Is Just War Theory utilitarianism, because that's certainly got strong Christian roots. I have yet to see a cogent explanation of why it is permissible to kill somebody, but not to slap them across the face or waterboard them, let alone perform real torture. Perhaps it is time to come up with a Just Torture Theory as well.

Objecting to the use of torture is not the same as being anti-military or anti-American. It is about recognizing the worth and dignity of all human beings whether or not they repect my human dignity. I see no ethical, moral of biblical support for the use of torture.

I would suggest that those who are showing courage and love by taking a stand against torture, should in fact consider being against war. If torturing someone is wrong, I would suggest that killing people is also wrong.

Tim J: There are several reasons that torture is different than killing a person in war. Pragmatically, a person surrenders because they believe that they will be treated well according to international law. If they new they were going to be tortured who would ever surrender. Wars would be much more deadly and on-going.

Also, once a person is under custody, then they are under the power of the captor. They no longer have the ability to fight back, so it is fundamentally different to shoot someone that is shooting back at you and to harm someone that cannot harm you back. The is the same principal that says that we should minimize casualties among civilians as much as possible.

Third, there is still a principal for Imageo Dei for Christians, even, if not especially with our enemies. Terrorists are still made in the image of God. Therefore they deserve to be treated as a child of God. That does not mean that they should not be punished when appropriate, but it does mean that there must be a fair and free trial. And torture by definition is not about punishment.

Anybody who use torture on Christians don't know who ther up against.God Almighty that's who.So I say every time they use torture on anybody,GOD IS WATCHING YOU.You will pay on Judgment Day.

Johnny: so what about muslims. Are we free to torture them because their god if false? Aren't we actually held to a higher standard because we know the truth?

"Evangelical Christianity" is largely intellectually and morally bankrupt. The fact that most "Evangelicals" support torture, therefore, is neither surprising nor contradictory.

Adam S.Muslims want nothing better than to have everybody covert to Islam.I've been a Catholic convert for 39 years. [Protestant for pervious 18 years.]I have read the Koran from my hometown library and the Internet.I also have a book entitled ''Inside the Revolution''and it says Muslims have been coverting to Christianity.Every hour--667 convert,Every day--16,000 convert,Every year--6 million convert.Something is happening.Good for them.

I am glad that Muslims are converting. But because Christianity is associated with the west (Muslims control government in much of the middle east so I have not doubt that many in the middle east think that that US gov't is controlled by Christians) there is even more reason that we should be bending over backward to treat our prisoners fairly. We should be treating them better than the law requires because that is what will show people that want to destroy the US that our true values are deeper than materialism.

Another example of the struggle conservative Christians have in separating out their Christian beliefs and their political ones. And what adds to that problem is perception outside of the church that "evangelical" is a political term.

You may ask why I presume this survey suggest "political contamination" of a Christian's beliefs. I'm struggling to find consistent biblical justification of torture. In addition, when magazines such as Christianity Today and conservative Christian leaders such as Richard Land speak against torture I can only assume those surveyed were expressing a political opinion, not a Christian belief.

Adam,the reason that Muslims convert to Christianity is they don't like war or violence.They find peace with Christianity, God bless them.

Adam,Christianity is not the only religion in the USA.Every religion under the sun is in the USA,including Islam.Religion in the USA is not controlled by Christians.Those Muslims better think twice.