Comments

There is a point in time where the believers in the Episcopal Church will have to obey this command

Come out of her, my people, so you will not take part in her sins and so you will not receive her plagues (Rev 18:4 NET)

Christians will look back on this controversy with shame in 50 years.

There is nothing in the Bible that condemns loving same-sex committed relationships between consenenting adults who are homosexual. Where same-sex acts are mentioned in the Bible it is tied to abuse, power, violence, force or idoloatry, not love and "marriage."

Parelli's comments constitute revisionism. There are many arguments that one can cite as evidence of Jesus’ rejection of homosexual practice. Jesus predicated marital twoness—the restriction of the number of persons in a sexual union to two, whether concurrently (no polygamy) or serially (no cycle of divorce and remarriage) —on the fact that “from the beginning of creation, ‘male and female He made them’ [Gen 1:27] and ‘for this reason a man … will be joined to his wife and the two will become one flesh’ [Gen 2:24]” (Mark 10:2-12; Matt 19:3-9). In other words, the fact that God had designed two (and only two) primary sexes for complementary sexual pairing was Jesus’ basis for a rigorous monogamy position. In additino, the Old Testament that Jesus accepted as Scripture was strongly opposed; that the man who baptized Jesus (John the Baptist) was beheaded for criticizing Herod Antipas for violating Levitical sex laws (the incest prohibitions, even in adult-consensual relationships); that the entirety of early Judaism out of which Jesus emerged believed homosexual practice to be a gross violation of foundational sexual ethics (there are no extant texts within centuries of the life of Jesus indicating any openness to homosexual relationships of any sort, in contrast to the existence of such texts among “pagans”); and that the early church that knew Jesus best was united in its belief that a male-female prerequisite for sexual unions was essential. The supposition of a Jesus supportive of, or even neutral toward, committed homosexual unions is without historical analogue in Jesus’ immediate cultural environment. Moreover, although we have no extant saying of Jesus that loosened the Law’s demand for sexual purity, we do have sayings where Jesus closed remaining loopholes in the Law’s sexual commands by further intensifying God’s demand (adultery of the heart; divorce and remarriage) and warning people that sexual impurity could get one thrown into hell fullbodied (Matt 5:27-32).

There is nothing in the Bible that condemns loving same-sex committed relationships between consenenting adults who are homosexual. Where same-sex acts are mentioned in the Bible it is tied to abuse, power, violence, force or idoloatry, not love and "marriage."

Talk about a distortion of Biblical Theology.

Jesus condemned homosexuality in Mat 5:17-18. Paul condemned it in Rom 2 and in I Cor 9? and Gal 5?

Jesus also condemned ANY sexual activity outside of a marriage btwn one man and one woman(Mk 10)by using the word "pornea."

My Bible doesn't say what your Bible says, DFT. Where did you get such hateful nonsense anyway?

What does Jesus say is the law? Love your neighbor, honor your parents, love God...the Golden Rule?

"Homosexuality" is an obsolete social construct built upon Victorian era sexology theory, now much abused by people of ill will. The Bible doesn't seem to condemn what didn't exist then, and doesn't really exist now, except as a straw man and scapegoat to abuse for people who should know better.

let them love one another boy meets boy and girl love girl, then we will have people having sex with animals like the old pagans, Then God WILL DESTROY THEM TO EVERLASTING HELL. LIKE SODOM AND GOMORRAH. BETTER ENJOY IT NOW. OTHERWISE REPENT OF UR SINS AND ACCEPT CHRIST AS SAVIOR AND LORD.

People who can't distinguish between love between consenting adults, and Sodom and Gomorrah's practice of enslaving strangers by gang raping them into submission, are...well, I'll try to be polite and just say: "Maybe they should think about getting some help."

Animals don't give consent to have sex with humans...but then, the conservative, white evangelicals in general have never seemed to think much of the concept of "adult consent." An old girlfriend's parent's were forbidden to marry in many states, and would very much like to forbid consenting Gay people from sex and marriage.

So...it's actually the religious right, in not respecting people's right to consent to marriage and sex, that's tacitly encouraging raping animals and people who don't, won't or can't consent to sex, right?

I get the "consent" argument, but it's incomplete. What if a 12 year old girl consents to sleeping with an adult male? What if a woman consents to having multiple husbands? These people are, simply, consenting to acts of sin.

Parelli, Peterson, I don't buy your argument that "violence" or "idolatry" is what makes homosexuality sinful.

Society says that a 12 year old can't give legally give consent. So, an adult sleeping with a 12 year old is committing statutory rape. A 12 year old can't consent to sex. Any adult that sleeps with her is a criminal.

I have no idea how you got "I don't buy your argument that "violence" or "idolatry" is what makes homosexuality sinful." That's not my argument in the least. "Homosexuality" is a religious right straw man, a scapegoat to substitute for not having Commies to blame for everything that white conservative evangelicals disapproved of, such as the Civil Rights Movement.

"Homosexuality" is not a sin. It's not condemned in the Bible. It didn't exist until Victorian times, and was largely unknown in America until the 20th Century. People who say that homosexuality is sinful, are by now, activists in a hate movement that wants a soft sort of genocide of the Gay community.

"Homosexuality" is an obsolete social construct that the religious right has perverted for it's own morally and intellectually bankrupt agenda of naked greed, pretensions of God ordains superiority above the "other." and their unrequited ethnic cleansing and race war fantasies left over from Jim Crow days. I'm trying to be polite...but I suspect I'm failing at that.

(Have you read the mega selling 'Left Behind' series that was advertised in CT? If that's not a blood soaked, racist-like ethnic cleansing fantasy of the most morally depraved kind, I'm a Martian. Think: The supernatural, born-again Christian race of all things light, in the final race-war against the unregenerate race of all things dark. I can't believe the number of people who enthusiastically recommended that utterly immoral trash to me...several of whom no longer speak to me...so some good came out of the series...lol)

Food for thought:

There is a difference between state marriage and religious marriage -- religious marriages are not recognized by the state unless state documents have been signed.

If we Christians are going to criticize same-sex marriage, we need to also criticize non-Christian marriages; according to our doctrine, marriages are only real if they are Christ centered.

If God is love, and we cannot judge another persons heart, and a same-sex couple says they are in love; we cannot judge their relationship. Were judgment is to occur, let us not play the role of God, but do as God says and love each other unconditionally.

"Homosexuality" is not a sin. It's not condemned in the Bible. It didn't exist until Victorian times, and was largely unknown in America until the 20th Century. People who say that homosexuality is sinful, are by now, activists in a hate movement that wants a soft sort of genocide of the Gay community.

Posted by: Gregory Peterson at July 26, 2009

Homosexuality was indeed understood and it existed in Paul's day...

The first recorded marriage between two men occurred during the reign of the infamous Emperor Nero, who is reported to have married two other men on different occasions. However, both of them were eunuchs and much can be read into his mental state by the fact that he made them up to look like Poppaea, his deceased wife, who he was presumed to have killed by kicking her in the stomach until she miscarried bloodily. Also known for his decadence and zealotry, Elagabalus, who may have been transgender,[citation needed] is also reported to have married a man in a public ceremony held at Rome.

Same-sex marriage was outlawed on December 16, 342 AD by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans. This law specifically outlaws marriages between men and reads as follows:

When a man marries and is about to offer himself to men in womanly fashion [quum vir nubit in feminam viris porrecturam], what does he wish, when sex has lost all its significance; when the crime is one which it is not profitable to know; when Venus is changed to another form; when love is sought and not found? We order the statutes to arise, the laws to be armed with an avenging sword, that those infamous persons who are now, or who hereafter may be, guilty may be subjected to exquisite punishment. (Theodosian Code 9.8.3)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_same-sex_unions

And the verses in Romans were all about lust.. Paul gives absolutely no indication that the homosexual relations were in any way related to pagan rituals...

Romans 1:26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.

Romans 1:27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.

Romans 1:28 When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.

Opposing unrepentant homosexuality has nothing to do with a feeling of superiority, nor a desire to accumulate homosexual jobs, property etc... Nor a desire to bring them physical harm...

It has everything to do with biblical integrity and sound doctrine..

So once again Gregory.. You're selling... I'm not buying...

Unrepentant homosexuality and Christianity are not compatable...

Leviticus 18:22 "Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.

Leviticus 20:13 "The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both parties. They have committed a detestable act and are guilty of a capital offense.

1Corinthians 6:9 Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,

1Timothy 1:10 These laws are for people who are sexually immoral, for homosexuals and slave traders, for liars and oath breakers, and for those who do anything else that contradicts the right teaching

.

If we Christians are going to criticize same-sex marriage, we need to also criticize non-Christian marriages; according to our doctrine, marriages are only real if they are Christ centered.

If God is love, and we cannot judge another persons heart, and a same-sex couple says they are in love; we cannot judge their relationship. Were judgment is to occur, let us not play the role of God, but do as God says and love each other unconditionally.

Posted by: Samantha at July 27, 2009

I disagree, I do not believe that Jesus taught that there should be no conditions attached to our associations with others...

Matthew 18:15 "If another believer sins against you, go privately and point out the fault. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back.

Matthew 18:16 But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses.

Matthew 18:17 If that person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. If the church decides you are right, but the other person won't accept it, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.

Paul also taught that we are not to intimately associate with those who are unrepentant...

Galatians 5:9 But it takes only one wrong person among you to infect all the others--a little yeast spreads quickly through the whole batch of dough!

And Paul also set down directives for dealing with those who are unrepentant in regards to sexual immorality...

1Corinthians 5:9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin.

1Corinthians 5:10 But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or who are greedy or are swindlers or idol worshipers. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that.

1Corinthians 5:11 What I meant was that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a Christian yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler. Don't even eat with such people.

1Corinthians 5:12 It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these ways.

1Corinthians 5:13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you."

.