Comments

This is just ridiculous, Deadly Viper is an Awesome Book, and I am glad I got my copy before the book nazis came out and took it off the shelf, I have nothing further to say as momma always said if you dont have anything nice to say, say nothing at all.

This just needs to be stated that Mike Foster though co-founded the ministry of XXXchurch.com with Craig Gross has not been involved in the ministry since 2006. Deadly Viper was in no way associated with anything related to XXXchurch as Mike has not been involved in any level in any capacity and the ministry of XXXchurch.com does not want to be associated with this product or fall out.

@Ridiculous:

Book nazi? As an Asian American who is also a Christian it saddens me to hear something like that. I'm sure you think all people of color should "shut our mouths" because racism doesn't exist anymore and we have a black president. Maybe you should try opening your eyes a little bit more and see that this is far from the truth.

Can the people who support the book please take the initiative to understand why we are offended? I'm not going to give you the answer. It's very odd to me that when we say the Asian American culture is offended by the book, supporters of the book say we are just being too sensitive and we should simmer down. That's like you taking a sledgehammer to my feet, breaking every bone inside and telling me that it doesn't hurt.

You are not "honoring" us by using an Asian theme that is used nonsensically. This is not the first time that something like this has happened (even with Zondervan). Millions of Americans think they are honoring Native Americans by wearing headdresses and yelling, "Tomahawk Chop!" at baseball games or buying buck-tooth Fukudome "horry-kow" t-shirts. Please stop. THINK.

Btw, I must say I am somewhat pleased by how Zondervan responded to all this. Mike and Jud, I know this was a hard decision for you guys and I hope you will learn and grow from this incident.

Go figure. Most Evangelical publishing houses are run by white, middle - upper middle class suburbanite males who place images of like status people on the cover of their books. Many haven't got the foggiest idea as to how to do otherwise. They should have consulted an Asian-American to do some quality control here.

I read the book. I thought it was a decent read, not once did I perceive anything as racially motivated. I wasn't looking for racism though, I was looking for why the book was written...

@Bryan - way to stand up with integrity, man. Awesome.

@ThisBookisRidiculous - did you READ the content of the book? Did you catch the notion that it's for ALL men (and women) to inspire them to lead lives of integrity in all aspects - killing off those temptations and pitfalls that attack every person of every race because we're all of one race: human?

You said in a second comment that you hope that Jud and Mike grow from this. What about the rest of the world? What about you? What about your own culture? There's a lesson here for all of us -- again, because we all belong to one race that God loves beyond description: human.

Yep, they probably should have consulted someone to see if this would be problematic. Yep, a better answer might have been sent to Professor Rah -- but I, too, would have asked him if he had read the content, just as I ask you. I guess in an ideal world, Prof. Rah would have read the book, then replied to them with suggestions to present the same content in a better way -- perhaps even one respecting and honoring the Asian culture. Thank God that HE examines the heart and loves us in spite of ourselves.

Yep, I'm white. I'm also perceived as being a beer-swilling, NASCAR-watching, two-toothed imbecile because of where I live and how I live. I've been considered an alcoholic because of my ancestry. I've been considered less than adequate because I'm a woman.

As a believer, I see things like this that I could very easily consider as offensive to me and begin to yell and scream about them. Instead, I choose to not be offended. I choose to love those people. And if they don't work with me -- I choose to pass them by and continue to pray for them. I choose to act in such a way that they will see Christ and let HIM do the work of drawing them to correctness.

i have read up on this story on several different blogs and read all the arguments. STILL i cant fathom that people actually find this book offensive. im sorry. im a norwegian whos spent most of my life in international schools in asia. ive been nicknamed things like 'norwegian' and 'viking' and at one point i was even given a viking helmet at an awards ceremony. Did i get pissed and exclaim how they had dishonored my forefathers by making a stupid viking helmet out of aluminum foil?! HECK NO!! theyd make jokes about us hunting polar bears and really thought Norway was always covered with ice. all they did was take the little they had heard about Norway and apply it to me. Now, was i offended?! HECK NO!! i took it with a smile and chuckled at what they thought about my country. why should i have expected anything else. I knew they werent trying to be rude or disrespectful, so i didnt take it that way either. everywhere i went asians would stereotype me as an american and call me Joe cause of my skin color. Did i yell "FOR THE 746th time, im a NORWEGIAN dag nab it!!" in their face?! HECK NO!

the authors of this book used the little they knew about the asian combat culture to give the book a more interesting twist that actually works with the agenda of the book. if youre afraid people are gonna read that and actually think thats the way asians are, you are greatly mistaken. we know its for illustration purposes and take it for what its meant to be. if the author says he thinks one of the chinese words sounds funny, whats wrong with that?! to him it does! i honestly dont believe that any of you havent laughed at things about other cultures. why cant we just understand that we all have different cultures and none of us are ever gonna understand the others fully!? why cant we just laugh with people and see the humorous side to our own culture in the eyes of another without taking offense?! when people dont mean to offend you, why are you letting yourself be offended?!

having grown up in an asian culture you cant tell me im being narrowminded. i love the asian culture. if i could chose one or the other i would definatley chose the asian! i greatly respect the asian cultures and traditions. but get this. why should i be any less offended if you called me "norwegian" than if i called you "asian"?! it saddens me that such a powerful book has been pulled of the shelves for a reason as this. if i were you i would have been proud of the awesome kung fu assassins in this book. but i welcome the authors to make use of fat Norwegian vikings with blonde braided hair as their theme instead. even they wont be NEARLY as cool

CT, why are you only just now covering this, and using quotes from the early stages of the controversy that both the authors of the book and Soong-Chan Rah have personally apologized for regarding their tone? If you had given this issue the coverage it deserved from the start, you wouldn't be re-opening wounds that had already begun to heal after thoughtful and intentional conversations that have taken place among the major players since then. Conversations that your article makes no mention of. This incident has the potential to be a model for racial reconciliation, in which members of the white privileged culture listened to and took needed corrective actions for hurtful stereotypes--however unintentional--against people of color. Your superficial coverage will likely fuel the backlash that many involved in this conversation fear could result.

Your comments already indicate as much.

I am nearing my seventieth birthday. When I was growing up I was assured that the nation would fall at my feet and doors would be open to me as I was tall, blond, white, Anglo-Saxon Protestant and male.
I am now feeling the backlash of the times in which I was raised.
WASPs are no longer or are barely the American majority, Protestants are no longer the largest religious block and there is no more 'majority rule with respect to minorities' policy in place. We now have many minority tails wagging the majority dog.
I shudder at every politically correct step we take off of the narrow path in the name of inclusiveness. This is just one more serious mistep.

@readthebook2 and @thats ridiculous The issue is not the written content of the book. I've read reviews and an excerpt of the book and the general ideas that are being brought forth are fine, even laudable. That's not the point. It's the imagery and the theme that they've used to communicate those ideas.

@readthebook2 and @slumdogbrother Hey, I'm glad you guys feel like you've been stereotyped and treated differently because of your looks/ethnicity/gender/etc. in your life, and can pass judgment on other ethnicities feeling stereotyped and mocked. The difference is that Norwegians and white, beer-swilling, two-toothed, imbecile women don't get beaten, assaulted, or killed because of who they are. Far more Asian-Americans than you can fathom will be physically and verbally accosted by fellow Americans for nothing more than the color of their skin. Why? Because ignorant people call on ignorant, ill-formed, and stereotypical images of Asians and judge every Asian by that filter.

Seeing how Christians around the world are arrested, judged, and murdered each year on the basis of hearsay and stereotypes about our beliefs, you would think that we would have some understanding of how damaging and dangerous it is to promote and wink at stereotyping of all kinds.

@phrog:
Would you do me the favor of further explaining your comment? Which narrow path have we strayed from? And what exactly do you mean that now "We have many minority tails wagging the majority dog."?

Well, I just went and orded a copy online before they all disappear. Nice anti-advertising campain if you ask me.

Maybe we just all need to take a little chill, starting with my fellow Euro-American dudes. Who are we to tell someone else what should and should not upset them? I've never spent a day, much less a lifetime, as an Asian-American. I have no clue what it's like. As a missiologist, I work hard to learn about other cultures, but I will never fully understand the life-experiences, values, emotions, and traditions of someone who has lived their life as a member of that culture. We, as whites, must always place ourselves in a learning posture when seeking to relate to and love our brothers and sisters of another culture.

Now, if I may be so bold as to offer a word of encouragment to my Asian brothers and sisters. I'm not saying you don't have a right to be upset, even offended. Your people have lived through hells that are beyond my understanding. I simply would ask if it is productive to hold on to that offense. As followers of Christ and servants of the cause of world evangelization, perhaps it would be best to let this pass quietly into the night in which it belongs, and free up your hearts and minds to pursue the salvation of your fellow Asian people. I pray that we would all die to self with such abandon that we would never allow the pains and offenses of the past to hamstring us in the ongoing battle for God's Glory among the amazing and beautiful people of Asia.

With all respect to the author, I don't feel like this article gives justice to the "big picture" of what has actually happened in this whole episode. The topic of whether or not Asian-Americans were offended and whether or not we are making a big deal out of nothing, have already been discussed and explained in other blogs and emails; but unfortunately they are being rehashed in the comments of this article because those that are newly aware of this issue are giving a lot of opinions without being able to fully grasp the complete picture.

From this article, it could almost seem like Zondervan (along with Mike and Jud) took this book down because of a politically correct motivation. This is not the case. Mike and Jud made the sacrifice to take their book down because they felt like they had wronged their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and are repentant. Before one lashes out in disdain, can you relate to their humility?

First off, let me say that I attend church where Jud serves as Lead Pastor, and I deeply respect both he and Mike Foster, both of whom I consider to be beloved brothers in Christ. That being said, I consider the pulling of this book to be nothing less than God at work. I've read Deadly Viper from cover to cover, and while it did contain good, solid values and concepts, I was a bit concerned that not only were different cultures being "cannibalized", but other religions, as well. At the end of the day, it seemed to be a heavy-handed attempt at being "cool and relevant", at the cost of almost mocking asian imagery, concepts, and culture. I wondered after reading it if Mike and Jud had actually researched the imagery and cultures they were showcasing, to assure that those cultures were being reperesented accurately and respectfully. I've spent extensive amounts of time in various asian countries, getting to know the people and the rich cultures and heritage...it was plain to me that this book was, as I stated, a heavy attempt at being cool and relevant. God doesn't like any of his children to be mocked in His name or for His sake, and He is a jealous God who won't tolerate His Grace and Love being wrapped in a "Bigger Better Deal" wrapper.

If the Asian community says they're offended, then, by all means, respect their feelings, show some grace and apologize. Then read 1st John. The Japanese were vilified during world war 2, the chinese during the Korean war. They were considered subhuman, evil and devious by my father's generation, so cut them some slack. This is not trivial or simple-minded PC. I am Norwegian too and it is in no way comparable.

God is 1. Lord God is a hero.In the bible it is written about the way, the truth and the life. That title does seem like the way. More discernment needed for the title on the cover. But i think that there is a viper in south america that helps the heart? I have not studied it. Lord God wants us to be the helpful sanctified christian. Amen. There is consequences of sin. Low sales, poverty, suicide. Also it would be nice to see roland synthesizers keyboards and others with a lot of apreggator drums. Most companys leave out a bunch of drums and give you only 5 keys. Then charge 1000 dollars for drum set synth. A lot of people can only afford 400 dollars!! Even non stereo appreggator(synth stereo sound). Protest or suggest lower prices! Imagine Roland or yamaha or Korg for there birthday asking his mom for a synthesizer when she works for low funded nursing home or mcdonalds. And has three other bothers or sisters.I think people want the music equipment. Just tv and probably alcohol is taking over? Protest abuse in pornography and companys. Well i am andy tucker Jesus 1 and ill probably produce a hip hop cd. But problems is that evil armys is wanting to target the usa. And sincere christians. Corrupt officers. And targeted business job positions.Be ready. Well thank you. Rev 12:9- torments us. And fools us. 1 corinth 14:26. Col 3:11. kjv. Psa99:9-outside pray. Il hills! Help sincere christians. Babys are a blessing. Say no to abortion. Save money for Jesus or gift card , soon! Amen!! Adopt the starving. Contact congress for more christian intellect choice option helping for christians and needy.

I haven't read the book! But if the majority of educated Asians (in this case Chinese) feel offended by the books or certain renderings in it then the publishers and other book praisers need to take pose and think. Not to do so would be the height of arrogance? Why do some people often poke fun at non-English sounding names?

I, too have been blessed by the character and integrity concepts that this book brings to the forefront.

This is unfortunate, however Jud and Mike have moved on to the "People Of The Second Chance". A great opportunity for us to all learn from this...and move on.

One point it seems folks are missing is that
the Deadly Viper products were trying to parody
the “Kung Fu movie” genre, especially the “B grade”,
poorly dubbed selections. They certainly wouldn’t
be the first to parody that genre and there is even
a lot of self parody within that genre.

What they failed to connect was that those movies have
a connection, though often tenuous, to an actual culture
and that their parody could be perceived as “making fun”
of the actual culture and ethnic group rather than
simply taking some humorous anecdotes from some
cheesy action movies.

So the authors and publishers were not being directly
insensitive or malevolent, they were just being oblivious.

(part 1)
Ironically, it would have been better for Mike Foster and Jud Wilhite if they had been objectified in the Deadly Viper controversy, but it appears they were mistakenly made the subject of the discussion.
If I understand all this correctly (and for the record, I am an ancillary vested person in this story, click here to read my own post re: all this), they touched a very sensitive nerve that (not only) the Asian American community has experienced in a “white captivity” culture—one that they have been grappling to put words to.

The tragedy is that rather than making the subject a conversation around cultivating sensitivity to humanizing all people regardless of race, culture or ethnicity, the tone and the target of these wounds were aimed at two guys who were actually contributing to a conversation towards integrity, character and the affirmation of human dignity for all persons.

I am a huge fan of Prof Rah and think his message needs to get out further to provoke a more grounded sense of our Christian identity as it relates to the shifting (actually, shifted) demographic in the mosaic of who actually makes up our Christian majority. But I am also a huge fan of what the Deadly Viper project was advocating for, not only in its content, but how the message of integrity, character and grace was embodied in the lives of Mike and Jud. It is sad how two important messages collided and the fallout that has been an unintended consequence of this collision.

(part 2)

Let’s hope that everyone who made hurtful or accusatory statements about Mike and Jud, reconsider the content and tone of those unfair allegations. Much of the content I’ve read in the comment sections on blogs regarding all this has been unhelpful assumptions. These assumptions have only aggravated a sensitive conversation that needs to be played out. However, this important conversation should be held around more harmful eruptions of cultural insensitivity (i.e. the “Rickshaw Rally”) that somehow are left immune to the controversy Deadly Vipers unintentionally invited.

Let’s also remember that Mike and Jud should not be the targets of this dialogue. If people want to pick fights here, there are plenty of other legitimate instances of racial insensitivity that are more important and appropriate instances that can be focused on.

A positive outcome from all this would be an overwhelming level of support for Mike and Jud as the move away from the packaging of Deadly Vipers to their People of a Second Chance movement. A platform they have created for others that now needs to be extended to them, especially by those who have been so accusatory in the ways they’ve dismantled an important voice of renewal for our shared humanity.

(part 3)

The essence of how I hope all this comes across speaks to the crucial need to humanize all people—the Asian American community and Mike and Jud. I think there’s a way that Prof Rah’s (and other’s) concerns can be, and need to be validated, but not at the expense of Mike and Jud—otherwise, the same thing that Deadly Vipers has been accused of will be done to them by those who are most concerned.

Overall, I believe this has been a sad eruption of anger around an important issue that seems to have been misdirected at two guys who have given themselves to a much-needed message of hope. I think resistance to “white captivity,” or the imposition of any dominant consciousness of our Christian expression needs to be fought against, but not at the expense of the reputation and content of men whose message resonates with this struggle from a different perspective.

*If you’d like to discuss this or comment on these thoughts please leave them here (http://www.chrisheuertz.com/post/257436160/further-reflections-on-the-deadly-viper-controvery)*

The only Viper here... Zondervan. This ain't about Christ or what Asian is offended, hell I was born offended and I'm not asking for books to be burned. This is about a publisher saving his ass so they don't loose cash, power or place in the tiny little subcultural. Back in the day we'd call me pussy's but I'm saved now so I'll call em Vipers, son's of the Devil or perhaps Sadducee.

J.R.

I usually don't post or care very much about what happens in religion but as an outsider I felt compelled to comment on this post itself.

In my opinion, the only thing that needs to be censored is the sloppy reporting by CT and this reporter. I'm surprised that CT decided to reprint private emails by the author which Professor Rah and the rest of the modern world would see as highly questionable and unethical behavior.

Also, if you are going to include a graphic of the book, at least post the CORRECT book cover.

My guess would be that Jud and Mike will fair well in the future while CT, Zondervan, Professor Rah and those who have acted so childishly will continue to be irrelevant and struggle to have any voice in the real world.

As an Asian American, I have some bones to pick with the good professor. He raised four so-called “issues”. Let me respond to each.

1) He says, “The Video clip is offensive because it is done in a cartoonish manner with a voiceover of a white person doing a faux Asian accent”. Have you never heard of Anime? This whole style is something that has been around for decades. The white guy faux accent – that is a part of a film style that came out of Hong Kong & Taiwan during the 60’s & 70’s, the idea is that you can understand what’s being said, but it’s still ‘oriental’- The stereotypes these white guys are being accused of buying into is produced by our culture. We are still putting movies out with these tactics.

2) He says, “The images present Asians as sinister enemies”.
http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=deadly+viper&init=quick#/photo.php?pid=2233965&id=101311418670 They are ninjas! Aren’t ninja’s assassins? Portraying them as bad people is offensive? WHAT!?

3) He is upset that they “quote and name Zi Qi Qi Ren”. Ok, yeah, this sarcasm is poking fun at a funky Chinese word. So what? We poke fun at the English language all the time.

4) He thinks “the use of Chinese characters and kanji is done in a nonsensical manner.” They were ‘Ninja’, ‘Assassin’ and ‘Warrior’ in Kanji. That’s the theme of the whole book. I believe he stated he read it off of a previous unverified quote on the internet… wow, great research.

In doing a bit of research you would find that almost half of the design team on the Deadly Viper project (book and website) is in fact, Asian! Prof. Rah actually had them remove a picture off of the home page of an Asian guy with a samurai sword, who is in fact, one of their web developers (who built the website) because it mis-represented Asians… what!?

Deadly Viper helped 1000s develop stronger leadership skills and deal with the dangerous assassins threatening their character. Along comes Professor Rah, and ruins a good thing. His outrageous claim of racism is ill informed and simply ridiculous. Perhaps Professor Rah suffers from FUBU (For Us, By Us) syndrome. Does he think that only a person of Asian descent can write and share wisdom? In one sense, I am glad that the authors have now given their full attention to a new campaign called People of the Second Chance (www.POTSC.com). And with grace, I am sure they offer Professor Rah just that, a second chance.

He claimed to be offended. Well, he offends me. I really cannot understand why Professor Rah and his gang wouldn’t go after Batman, Saturday Night Live or the new Ninja Assassin movie for their use of “culturally insensitive portrayals of Asians”, instead of a couple Christian authors trying to help people. Why censor a book focused on integrity in leadership instead of turning all this effort toward Hollywood where societies perceptions are cultivated?

I wish people like Prof. Rah would do more than complain about their offense and actually do something like Love146, Charity Water or Junky Car Club... even Deadly Viper? Where are these critics actually helping people change their lives?

I tried to post several times on the professor’s blog and they were censored. Only ONE of my ‘shorter’ posts was put up and even then it was out of the original context with the previous messages.

I am gravely disappointed that Zondervan would censor a book because a few Asians who claim to speak with the voice of our culture are offended. The message is solid and the illustrations help people understand the reality of a deeper spiritual battle going on.

@Peter Nguyen

So basically, the ends justify the means? Since you're not offended, it's not mockery or stereotypical?

Again, the complaints are not about the book's content. The leadership principles they lay out are good and solid. It's the way they chose to communicate those principles. And regardless of whether or not you're offended by that imagery or usage, there are a good number of Asian-American Christians who are, never mind any Asians from outside the American subculture who have no idea of the context that these images are being used or non-Christians who will look at this and conclude that American Christians are racists who have no problem stooping down to use racial stereotypes to communicate something.

And as far as things like Ninja Assasin and SNL, there are plenty of Asians who are raising their voices over those portrayals of our culture. Even then, I don't expect a secular, non-Christian industry to portray Christians, Asians, or any group with great respect. I do expect Bible-believing Christians to do so, because we should know better.

Let's give Mike & Jud & Zondervan their due credit. Those who seek to "defend" them seem to regard them as "victims" of oversensitive critics. Moe Gerkins and Mike & Jud are smart guys. They published a book based on a good idea - to admonish believers regarding the things that can compromise our character and bring us down. Then it was pointed out to them that a piece of their methodology was less than helpful, even offensive, and even counterproductive to their ultimate goal of being a good witness for Christ. SO MIKE & JUD & MOE ACKNOWLEDGED THEIR ERROR AND THEY APOLOGIZED. And they repented. These are smart guys who came to a deeper understanding after careful, respectful listening and dialog. They are not fools or dupes. They are people of integrity who would not compromise their convictions just for market share or "pressure to be politically correct." This is not about P.C. Give the guys credit for recognizing their error - something that, ironically, their would-be supporters seem unable to do and to give them credit for. Respect these intelligent men for their well reasoned choice. Please don't insult them by implying that they are victims and pawns in a P.C. game. They are seeking integrity - to be faithful and humble and responsible in their witness. Let us all respect that and aspire to do the same.

I share slumdogbrother's concern about CT's coverage. This article focuses on the early erruption and sharp conflict. The title refers to apology, but the article completely fails to report on the heartfelt interactions that took place between the parties involved. The end result was respect and a model of reconciliation and understanding. CT's story makes it sound like a publisher simply had to give in to a whiny minority complaint. I expect CT to shine more light, but this time the sensation and the heat seemed to overshadow the light. CT can and should do better than the sensationalistic tabloids.

James Lee's response to Peter Nguyen is right on target. There ARE Asian American groups that monitor and criticize harmful caricatures of Asian Americans portrayed in places like SNL.
But we expect John Belushi to have been willing to mock some people because he was a comic and an entertainer selling his product.
The fact that these monitoring groups (like the JACL, et al.) are in fact watching makes it all the more important for Christians not to be committing these acts of accusable caricaturization.
Christians should do better and have higher standards than SNL. Because of what we claim to be, it is right that the world should hold us to higher standards.

If the secular media decided to write a book or make a movie stereotyping or caricaturing Evangelicals there would be a major uproar. And the secular world would say "Big Deal" to the complaints. I do laud Zondervan's action to pull the book from its inventory. Maybe we can take our cues from missionaries to travel overseas. They learn the language of the people that they are trying to reach, research the culture and avoid the taboos. May be a little research into Asian culture would have been a good thing here. And let's be honest we may very well find a time where most Christians will be living in Asia and no the U.S.

Just write. As an author, that is. The readers will find you out and vilfy you. You can't earn a living writing with that kind of attitude, but that is what a writer is supposed to do: write fearlessly, particularly in matters of faith. Faith is constant; cultures can be shed like clothes.

personally i think this claim is bull. yes the commercial was bad, but the book it self seeks out a kung fu culture not Asian. yes they are the same but look at kung fu movies and shows and compare the book they are close and that is why i liked it, not because it appeals to an asain market but that it appeals to anyone who has ever seen those old bruce lee or more popular crouching tiger movies. if you read the book it is in no way offensive. maybe the marketing of it was but the book and authors should not be blamed

So to all my Asian Americans friends.....do I need to stop watching Kung Fu movies? Are you going to attack "Kung Pu Panda" under the same issues???
Do we need to take re-film Enter the Fist cause it has Kareem-Abdul Jabbar....who we all know is not Asian, how dare he go along with it!

Come on!!!

I have not only read the book but have bought many copies for guys that love the book because it was something they enjoyed and changed their lives.

Wouldn't the Asian community come off by saying, "yea!!! look at that we helped influence healing and restoration from our culture!

So what can we learn from this?
#1) Only if you are from a particular culture can you write or even mention it. Yes, you should completely ignore or reject that cultural characteristics even exist to begin with.

#2) I should be extremely offended by Larry the Cable Guy given the location I live and my cultural background.

#3) Since cultural stereotyping is absolutely wrong; Christ needs to repent for stereotyping the Pharisees and Sadducees by their religious culture of the day.

Yeah, it’s that stupid.