And yet, the UK is an officially Christian nation, with an established religion (two of them, in fact, both Christian, depending upon which side of Scottish border one is on). Forget about 'special' protections -- shouldn't freedom of speech apply here?

My Bible would disagree with McAlpine's Bible. There are no unequivocal "homosexuals" in it that I can find (some rather homoerotic verses, though), and "homosexuality" isn't mentioned. The concept of "homosexuality," and the social constructs which arose from it, didn't exist until late Victorian times, and have been largely obsolete for mere decades now.

The few same-sex sexual activity verses are probably about fertility cult, and perhaps some mystery cults, sexualized rituals done by people who didn't necessarily have a same-sex identity orientation as understood today...in fact, while I'm sure some did, most likely were "straight." This is fairly uncontroversial in "moderate to liberal" theological circles. (Sexual orientations were apparently not conceived of in Biblical times, at least as we understand such things.)

My Bible condemns idolatry as sinful activities, not people with a same-sex identity orientation.

God, as I read the Bible, does not want, need or demand sexual rituals to appease God....unlike what was thought about with some pagan gods and goddesses. I would bring that up to the 21st century in suggesting that God might not want, need, or demand the theo-pornographic ritual scapegoating of people either.

The alleged Leviticus "homosexual" bashing verses, for instance, are very likely about an idolatrous "seed sacrifice" ritual to fertility gods, facilitated by cross-dressing priests or temple sex workers. They are plainly not about adult, consensual, marriage of two hearts, loving relationships. Don't participate in religious rituals which incorporate sexual activities.

Gay men don't usually want to lay with a man as with a woman, for starters...though I guess some might lay with a woman as with a man sometimes. People are somewhat flexible to various degrees, and imaginative. It would be "straight" men who would more likely lay with a man as with a woman. Either way, that's a sort of sexual exploitation, even if fully consensual and legal.

If McAlpine reads the Bible in such a way as to bring him to confidentially assert what he allegedly said, then he is "homophobic" in that he sees "homosexuals" where there are none.

One would hope that the UK has protecting freedom of speech laws. I haven't lived there since the Seventies and things change.

There is such a thing as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater when there is no fire. So, there are the issues of how he said what he said, when he said what he said, where he said what he said, why he said what he said, and to whom. Regardless of legality, what he said is immoral in my book.

But, I wouldn't label him a sinner. Judging the sinfulness of other people is God's business, not mine.

GP, homosexuality in the New Testament is referred to as "men who lie with men as with women," "men who exchange the natural use of women for that of men," and the like. Yes, it is referred to in other passages besides Leviticus. I find it interesting that people claiming that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality always stay in Leviticus and don't go into the New Testament (except for an argument that "Paul never met an actual homosexual" that someone used on another board). Could it be because they know that this is a ridiculous argument that is only intended for use with Leviticus? That would explain why so many pretend that there is no other mention of homosexuality in other books of the Bible.

This article is about the arrest in the UK not about what some of you think is just another opportunity to press your agendas and who have the same comments for every article on this topic. Please keep the comments on topic about this article and the arrest. Quite frankly I am tired of reading the same comments from the same people over and over. If you have something to contribute regarding what is taking place in the UK then do so with decency and respect. Thank you.

Romans 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; (NKJV)

Sorry about that, BJ. I let myself be drawn into helping to hijack the discussion thread. And you're right. The comments are getting monotonous. We all seem to say the same things on every article involving homosexuality. I hope others will join me in staying on topic for the rest of this discussion.

On topic, I've noticed the alarming decline in what is left of free speech in the UK. People are allowed to say what they want against Christians, but we can't preach against something the Bible says is sinful behavior. What is sad is that the United States is becoming less and less open to the Gospel. If we aren't careful, this could be happening in the US in the near future.

Would they have arrested a street preacher criticising homosexuality if that preacher were a muslim????

Christians have always suffered persecution. The world hated Christ and as long as we are faithful to him, it will hate us too. The day will come when even folks calling themselves Christians will persecute those who follow The Way and think they're doing God a service. We must hold tight to the truth of Scripture, even if it sounds offensive to the natural person. Having once been in a cult church, I now realize how precious biblical truth is and I cling tightly to it. I pray that many other believers do the same.

According to the article the Public Order Act 1986 states the following, "which forbids "using threatening, abusive or insulting words ... tending to and causing harassment, alarm or distress." Was this man arrested because of his stance on homosexuality or because he was perceived as being a public nuisance? Isn't is possible that if the rantings were political or if he was a shouting atheist that he could have been arrested as well? Sometimes it's not about what you say but about how you say it. Of course I don't deny the fact Christians and the Christian worldview are minorities in Europe but I think that one needs to think carefully about what is specifically persecution and what is not.

An American may have set the precedent for this arrest...see

http://www.christianstogether.net/Articles/191402/Christians_Together_in/Christian_Life/Current_News/American_evangelist_jailed.aspx

Rather than stay and fight the charges which would have kept him in Glasgow for 8 to 10 weeks, the American plead guilty and paid a £1000 fine.

"Scottish comments have ranged from appreciation of the Americans coming to Scotland to preach the Gospel, to heavy criticism of having created a very dangerous precedent (by pleading ‘guilty’) and leaving a mess behind for Scottish Christians to deal with.
One has expressed himself:
Shawn has done very wrong in pleading guilty.
1) The police will now realize that they can do this to any Christians who preach there, and so this will encourage police to be hostile against the Gospel there in the future.
2) The unbelieving public of groups hostile to the Gospel will now realize they can now get Christians arrested and heavily fined, and so this will encourage them to cause trouble.
3) Pleading guilty in this case is bearing false witness.
4) Enemies of the cross now have Christians admitting they hate homosexuals, and Catholics.
This is heart breaking news, and has caused massive problems for the preaching of the Gospel in Glasgow and who knows else where.

I don't know what Bible Greg Peterson is reading or what planet he is coming from. He claimes there is no reference of homosexual in the Bible. I would point him to 1Corinthians 6:9 and 1Timothy 1:10. There the word homosexual is specifically metioned, besides there are a whole bunch of references that speak to the subject without specifically mentioning the word itself.

All men are created equal. Some men are more equal than others...welcome to your Orwellian nightmare.

the good news that Jesus is alive and is God is the more important positive message. The joy of that truth, which enables us to celebrate deeply is more important than the negative aspect of demanding the giving up our worldly desires and sins, at least initially. Finding self-respect in Christian terms becomes a very moral enterprise but it is made easy by the exciting drinking we do at the fountain of life, when we realize God's salvation. Sins, too, are not items which we should judge each other harshly on but are items of moral conscience which we should hold our own selves constant on. We ourselves are the accountable ones who must behave impecably. It is no good spreading hate and negative demands on others. Christianity is the faith system of humility and love and self-control, not of excessively harsh demands on others.

The UK is a secular society which must be shepherded with love, not shamed and made afraid of hatred. It tries to be a tolerant society rather than critical of groups and minority behaviours. Christians must work wisely and cleverly and lovingly to spread the good news and its salvation rather than being frightening or sectarian.

It is eisegesis (reading something into the text) to say that Leviticus probably applies to a fertility cult, but I'm not surprised that this view is non-controversial in "moderate-to-liberal" churches.

I feel that "traditional" interpretation of the Bible about homosexuality is incorrect, studies make the clear. But, that totally aside, what is happening in the UK is very scary. Even if it hate speech laws were applied equally to all religions (or none), which they aren't, they are being totally misused and have no place in a "free" country. My fear is that using the UK as an example the "Christians are superior" crowd will be able to squelch legitimate prosecution of hate in action.

It would be very interesting to hear what the arresting officers have to say, as well as the individual to whom Pastor McAlpine was speaking. Was he being too loud and offensive? If yes, then it would need to be pretty extreme behavior to warrant an arrest and future trial. If no, his arrest should scare every Britain who cares about civil liberty - even those who would disagree with him.

Yes, this censorship situation in Britain is indeed cause for concern.

Why? Because American Christians are next on the list, and you know it.

The Bible says give unto Cesar that which is Cesar's. Give unto God that which is God's. When Cesar trys to take that which is God's, then the line has been over stepped and we obey God. We have an obligation to reach out to all sinners including homosexuals no matter what the cost. After all, we are just passing through. The things that really matter are eternal.

we should preach for Jesus rather than, initially, against homosexuals. The world wants to be kind to gays (rather than being gay). Our preaching against gays is not the wisest strategy regarding snakes and birds because it just makes us sound sad. This is not ratifying homosexuality but is suggesting we be wise as serpents and gentle as doves! Yes, gentle as doves! That is biblical after all.

(which forbids "using threatening, abusive or insulting words ... tending to and causing harassment, alarm or distress)

So in other words if someone calls me a poo poo head and it causes me distress I can have them arrested? By their reasoning that would include all bullies at schools, all political leaders that say things that alarm me by talking ill about my Christian faith, all evolutionists that mock me when I talk about a creator, etc, etc....personally I would love to see someone take someone to court for getting called four eyes and see how the judge views that! Next law: everyone must wear tape over their mouths at all times so as not to offend anyone as the court is too full of cases!!!

From the article: "McAlpine's arrest comes days after a top British judge was criticized for ruling that Christian beliefs are not entitled to special protection under the laws of the nation."

Good for the judge. What part of no-special-rights-for-Christians does this man (and some people here) not understand?

Perhaps a better question would be "what part of free speech do you not understand?"

Why do I have a problem believing that he would be arrested if he were moslim, and if by some miracle he was arrested, why do I have a problem believing you'd be speaking out against him too?

Hate the sin, but love the sinner. Their minds are warped because they are cursed, as God gave them over to a debased mind....they were given over to vile passions....but yet God loves them with an unfathomable love, that we, as human beings, could never began to understand in the flesh.
As Christians we are commanded by God to love one another, as He first loved us. To love one another is love every human being, regardless of race, color, or creed.

As for loving the sinner but not the sin, can anyone tell me where that is found in the Bible? I like to back things up with verses.

We probably should, but God Himself does not do this, and I have posted verses from the Bible on this in the past. In Romans chapter 9, God clearly makes a difference in the amount of love he has for Jacob vs Esau. In fact, it says He hates Esau, even while in the womb. He also made it clear it had nothing to do with their desire or will, but on God's soverienty.

Why did God save only Noah and his family if He indeed, loved everyone equally? Why is the road to God narrow, and the road to destruction wide if all are loved equally? It is because He is a holy God and also a God of wrath. As He says many times, He is the potter, and we are the clay, and we have no right to question His decisions. We can rest in peace however, knowing that He is a holy, righteous God, and know that He will be as "fair" as possible, far more than any human could be.

Psalm 5:6 :You destroy those who tell lies; bloodthirsty and deceitful men the LORD abhors."

Once again free speech is apparently only for people who want to curse Jesus' name, promote anarchism, or anything else as long as it doesn't mean speaking the truth as it is proclaimed in God's Word. But, a day of judgment is coming which will show that God's Word is actually the standard and not the laws of man.

There are many evil men in the church today who have corrupted minds and are saying perverted things to get their own followers, who fight against the truth and make strange claims that disgusting and detestable sins are good things, saying bad is good and good is bad. It is obvious homosexual behavior is a sin. God created men and women in such a way that the natural way of sex is between a man and a woman. Would you drive a luxury vehicle on a farm? No, you would use a tractor, which is suitable for the field. Men having sex with men is like a luxury car driving on farm land instead of using a tractor. Homosexual relationships are damaging both spiritually and physically. I believe orthodox Christians are currently fighting a battle for the truth of the bible against those who are trying to make a detestable sin publicly accepted in the churches.

loving the sinner but not the sin can be seen in the case of Zacheus. Jesus was kind to him and ate with him even when Zacheus was still a thief. However when Zacheus repented and was about to pay back his ill-gotten gains, then Jesus welcomed him into God's family. That is the difference. Homosexuals can be loved and treated kindly but are not welcomed into the "family".

In my bible NIV. God regards homosexuality as sin.
If this preacher is being prosecuted for stating publicly fact perhaps it is time the British Justice System stopped uisng the Bible in court or are they afraid of "The Wrath of God"

Am not surprised at all by the experience of this faithful Baptist preacher for preaching the truth and for calling sin, sin. John the Baptist was put in prison for calling sin, the sin of King Herod having relationship with a woman not his wife. Eventually, that first Baptist preacher lost his head.What amazes me though is when nations who claim to be Christians don't stand for what Christians stand for on what is sin according to the Bible.

We cannot and must not preach the same way John the Baptist preached, because the least in the Kingdom is greater than John; this is because we are taught by Jesus in the spirit of grace and truth: The spirit of gentleness and of the dove. We cannot demand, like the Old Testament demands that we all follow the law because we all are baptized in that grace and truth. This, though, means men do not get into bed with men nor do we act immorally with women, but our lover is the Holy Spirit and our souls are gentle and on fire.

Proponents of the sexual revolution, in all its manifestations, advocate that it is Christianity, with its repressive morality, that prevents people from finding their true identity. Pearcy writes: "Sexual Liberation is not just a matter of sensual gratification or titillation, it is a complete ideology, with all the elements of a worldview. To stand against it, Christians cannot simply express moral disapproval or say 'That's wrong'. We have to remember that morality is always derivative - it stems from one's worldview. In order to be effective, we have to engage the underlying worldview." Nancy Pearcy, "Total Truth" Crossway Books,2004. p.146.

The issue here is free speech. Several of you have hit it right on the head already. Regardless of whether or not we agree with one another we should all have the freedom to speak our opinions without being censored or arrested. It is ironic that folks who claim to be so liberal and open minded are so millitant about shutting out viewpoints that are different from the views that they hold. Most of the censorship seems to be aimed at the Christian worldview. The Bible predicts that this is going to happen and it is coming true before our eyes. So where does the censorship stop once it starts? The sky is the limit once we start taking away freedom from any individual in society. I do not advocate a theocracy. God gave us free will. We are free to reject or accept Him. Our government should reflect and honor this God given right.

“Look, I am sending you out as sheep among wolves. So be as shrewd as snakes and harmless as doves" (Matthew 10:16)

If we are christian we need never be afraid of our "right to free speech" being taken away because Christian means being meek, mild and above all harmless. Not to forget we are also to be obedient to the authorities. Then our influence will grow and our right behaviour has influence..

Being harmless and shining as a light and so having influence comes more from our behaviour than from clauses in our legalistic speech.

Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.

This does all mean we cannot live in the world as if it is a dating agency for anyone; our sexuality and morality has to be completely pure.

As more secular Christians eagerly accept homosexuality the bible warns against such uninhibited acceptance. In the story of Sodom and Gomorrah God judged the homosexual and warned Lot and his wife (the only righteous people left in the city) to flee and not look back. But as it is told in the bible Lot’s wife looked back and was instantly judged and turned into a pillar of salt.
The implication of that story is that those who sympathize and accept homosexuality, while not actively practicing homosexuality, will ultimately suffer the same judgment from God as the homosexual. Additionally it must be highlighted that Lot’s wife was judged apart from the homosexual, she was judged at a distance. So those who think that it is safe to accept homosexuality simply because they are not part of the homosexual community engaging along with them in their sinful act will still incur God’s judgment right along with the homosexual.
Lot’s wife (who was righteous), not only was judged along with the homosexual, but she was judged apart from them in a different manner. The actual sinner (homosexual) was destroyed outright and their supporter (Lot's wife) turned into a pillar of salt. Look around and as more homosexuals gain a foothold in religion, government, business, media, etc, and as more people begin to accept homosexuality and join an open advocacy for them the more those institutions and individuals begin to crumble under God’s judgment.
The sin of homosexuality is the only sin where God’s judgment applies to both the actual sinner and the supporter of the sin irrespective of any direct involvement. God will judge the believer and non-believer together, sinner or righteous person together, if they both support the sin of homosexuality.

The sin of homosexuality is the only sin where God’s judgment applies to both the actual sinner and the supporter of the sin irrespective of any direct involvement. God will judge the believer and non-believer together, sinner or righteous person together, if they both support the sin of homosexuality.>

Are you saying the person who believes homosexuality is ok, and is a Christian, will be judged as an un-believer?

"The sin of homosexuality is the only sin where God’s judgment applies to both the actual sinner and the supporter of the sin irrespective of any direct involvement."

Where did you get this bit of information?

Sounds like fallacy to me.

Homosexuality is an addiction like alcoholism. It is not something people are born with. Anyone who allows themselves to succumb to the temptation can become addicted. Treatment and help centers, including 12-step groups and religious counseling, should be established to help those overcome it, who are willing to acknowledge this sinful addiction. Those who have fallen into addiction from this temptation can overcome it. They are not born into it. It is no different than alcoholism in this respect.