Didn't the Germans insist on the state being in charge of the education of their children in the 1930s? How did that turn out?

Jonathan, quite correct...there ISN'T another option and the fact that you think creationism is on par with evolution is evidence of the problem.

Karlton. You're right. Creationism isn't on par with evolution. It's superior. There is an astounding amount of evidence that has been found against evolution, but it is often ignored by evolutionists who don't want everyone to know how flawed their theory is.

I'll be more than happy to provide you with some examples of the evidence against evolution, if you wish.

German reporting in.

creationism vs evolution:
every german school teaches religion if you want to for 2 hours a week. later even 4 h/week. As an atheist or a religion that isnt offered by the school there is a class called ethics.
evolution is taught in biology which is part of the 3 nature science classes of which you have to choose 2 (physics, chemestry and/or biology) or all 3 and ditch one of the two foreign languages.

so this isnt an argument for home-school.

Most germans, also I, believe kids, until they are seen as being able to decide for themselves, which can differ from person to person, but you have to draw a line somewhere, have the right and the duty to take part in the social life of their community to create equal terms for all.
Home-Schooling might be better for some kids, but if worse you essentially robbed your kid's chance for a good education. Managing this would be a nightmare, if even possible.
But since classes in Germany until the 8th or 9th class rarely end later than 13:00 parents have enough time to teach their kids at home.

Also this law was invented to stop childlabour. No Nazis involved.

noname, thanks for providing helpful background and clarification.

Given the right situation, homeschooling can be superior to public schools. For example, I know someone who was homeschooled through high school and graduated college Summa Cum Laude.

I will admit, of course, that homeschooling works best if done through an accredited program and with parents who are willing to put in the time to teach their kids. This includes studying any topics the parents themselves are weak on so they can effectively the children.

I'm glad that noname added to this discussion from a German's perspective. Also, the school system is set up entirely differently from the American system. There are different tracks of public school starting at age 10, focusing on technical/manual labor skills, vocational/technical skills, and academic skills - based on the child's aptitude. It's an apple to oranges comparison to the American school system.

Traditionally, German families have their large meal together as a family at lunch after school is over - giving families more time to interact with their children than in the American system of school lunches. There is a lot teaching time that can occur around that German table as parents and children discuss what the children are learning.

There are some terrible, terrible dirty secrets about WW2 and the horrific fire bombing that Britain and the US inflicted on German civilians, old men, women and children, on an industrial scale, burning people alive, similar to the procedure used by America on Japan (http://www.rense.com/general92/dirty.htm). To deflect attention away from these crimes the Holocaust was decided on as a useful bit of mendacious atrocity propaganda, relying on total control of Germany to prevent any truth on the matter getting out. Japan has relied on financial and industrial competition to deal with America, and has succeeded. Germany chose the route of keeping quiet and suppressing any truth tellers, kowtowing to the Zionist oppressors. But the truth is seeping out: it’s now official – there’s been no actual shortage of Holocaust Survivors: quote from "The Holocaust Industry" by Norman G. Finkelstein of the City University of New York, published by Verso in the year 2000:
'The Israeli Prime Minister's office recently put the number of "living Holocaust survivors" at nearly a million.' (page 83)
Home-schooling is one way of escaping this terrible communist-style indoctrination which has been inflicted on Germans for more than sixty years by the violently racist Zionist money power which also controls the US, using Nazi-style methods against the people of Palestine and lies to start wars against Iraq, Afghanistan and probably Iran. This is destroying the US but Germany's strategy has succeeded, even if at the expense of truth.

As a longtime homeschooler in the US (20+ years), I'd like to comment: our four oldest children have attended college. Two of those have graduated and are successful in their chosen fields. Two of them are currently in college; one of those is in law school. Our youngest is still at home.

Regarding the comment made by The Poster Formerly known as Cybereagle777:

We have never been in an "accredited" program of instruction, but we have taught our children our Christian values and have used a college track, mixed curriculum program. Accreditation is granted, at least in our state, to "cover schools" who choose to pay an exorbitant fee to the state; colleges do not look at whether or not the student graduated from an accredited institution. They are much more interested in their college entrance test scores. Homeschooling requirements in the US vary from state to state. Children who have been home schooled consistently score higher on college entrance examinations than their public schooled peers; there is no positive correlation between more regulations set up by the state and academic achievement. Please visit the National Home Education Research Institute for further information on this subject.

http://www.nheri.org/Research-Facts-on-Homeschooling.html

@noname: Let me, a German homeschoolfather, give some further information. It is not true that parents have enough time to teach the children at home in the afternoon. We have a strong trend to fulltime schools where the kids are until late afternoon. But also when they are back at home at 2.00 p.m. they have to do a lot of homework, preparation for tests, etc and other private commitements. Moreover both of the parents are out because of their job, so there is little time for teaching children at home in the afternoon or just spend time together with common activities.
Homeschool children in most cases have a very good education, they are supported by long distance learning courses or umbrella schools for homeschoolers. For christians there is the Philadelphia School which supports homeschoolers in Germany with material, curriculas and teachers assistance.
Compulsory school attendance law is not a Nazi law from his roots, but before the Nazi time it was still possible to homeschool in some cases. The Nazis under Hitler enforced the so called Reichsschulpflichtgesetz which abolishes each form of private education at home and forces children to school with coercive measures where the polices brings children to school and parents are thrown into jail. This Reichsschulpflichtgesetz has never been abolished until now

Regarding the comments by noname:

As a professing Christian who is not a member of a mainline denomination in the United States, I would not want my children taught religion by someone who didn’t have a similar perspective as my husband and myself. A great deal of emotional damage can be done to children in that way. I have seen it.

For people who profess the name of Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, their perspective colors all of their approach to education as well as life itself. You really can’t separate the two.

You mentioned that children in Germany can “opt out” and take an ethics course. Ethics is one of the most perspective driven topics that there is! Who is to say what’s right and what’s wrong without a code of basic values and beliefs? That would not be an acceptable solution to most thinking Christians.

One of my children stayed with a German family for several days a number of years ago. This child had been homeschooled all of his life. He was visiting Europe as part of a People to People delegation. The family with which he stayed included a father who was involved in education in Germany. The man took plenty of opportunites to tell my son, who he didn’t know had been homeschooled, all about his perspective on various topics. He was vehemently anti-Christian. I cannot begin to believe that someone like this, placed in a position of power and authority over a young child, could even begin to educate that child without his beliefs and animosity towards Christ and His followers coloring everything he said and every subject he taught, including ethics.

Regarding the comments by Bob Delaney:

You have been reading some interesting but revised history accounts.
Instead of feeding on [i]Mein Kampf[/i], which was a treatise on Adolf Hitler’s political philosophy, I’d like to recommend Winston Churchill’s [i]Memoir of the Second World War[/i].
Please don’t rely on what you’ve read on a slanted website with contributions by people who were not eyewitnesses to the events in question.

Regarding the comments by noname on the origin of the law against homeschooling:

[i]Mein Kampf[/i] deals with Hitler’s belief that “the first duty of every country is ... to nationalise the masses.”
Public education is the means that governments use to nationalize the masses.

@Netzwerk Bildungsfreiheit:

May God bless and encourage you in your endeavors! May you have the freedom to teach your own children!

You and your family will be in my prayers.

In a situation where Europe more and more becomes an important stronghold of cultural marxism-leninism, Germany lives up to the Prussian tradition and even goes ahead of other socialist countries.
The team of the "Bluthilde"-blog (the German partner blog of the American "People`s Cube") therefore awarded the medal of honor named after the famous former GDR Ministery of Justice frontwoman Dr. Hilde Benjamin to one of the judges who had gone after a German homeschooling family:
http://bluthilde.wordpress.com/2010/02/14/die-kopfe-des-proleten-2009/
The schooling authorities in any socialist country know that the State as the measure of the collective will knows better what`s good and what`s right for the individual than the individual itself. And they know that parents without a well-shaped socialist consciousness are not able to make the right decisions due to their lack of consciousness.
It`s as easy as that. They only defend the right of every to child to have sex education, to be bullied by peer-group-leaders, to be blackmailed to hand out protection money and the portable phone and to be taught that it is a descendent of apes. This is what we call "progress".

@Deb:
Homeschooling in Germany was declared illegal as soon as the first german state was found. All Hitler did was renewing a law which had already been active only different for different states. There has not been a time where the german state allowed himeschooling ever. Even if the government liked to education is in the ruling of the various states.
And this was in fact in the 18th century to stop child labour.

I took part in ethics in two different schools. Most of the time youre are discussing different topics with different viewpoints. The teacher isnt teaching you the right way, he acts more like a moderator. And btw you may underestimate children even in young age they are able to form their own opinions and not listen blindly to what teachers pray.

@Netzwerk Bildungsfreiheit
There are still many non-fulltime schools left and will be since many parents prefer them to the new system.
If both parents are out because of work you wouldnt be able to homeschool anyway or did i misunderstand something?

I dont doubt that there are many good homeschooled children. The average homeschooled child might even be better then the average public school child.
But this has nothing to do with being homeschooled but more with its parents taking part in their education. Children going to school and having parents that care about their education will have a way better general knowledge then homeschooled children. Because you simply cant teach all the different classes offered in school.

Also if you dont like the general teachings in school (sex education etc.) I have to say sorry to you. But in Germany your childs rights are being placed above the parents'. And its the right and the duty of a child to attend schools and learn things that are generally accepted by society. If you are against this you are harming your children and are rightly put into jail for this crime. In fact a majority supports this and is demanding even stricter laws.

"And its the right and the duty of a child to attend schools and learn things that are generally accepted by society. If you are against this you are harming your children and are rightly put into jail for this crime. In fact a majority supports this and is demanding even stricter laws."

JAWOLL, HERRRR NONAME!

Like in the late 30ies - back then society accepted children being taught that Jews were subhuman creatures or handicapped people were antisocial parasites. And many demanded even stricter laws against what the authorities called "public vermin"...

It is very interesting, "harrytisch" do you have children? I am a german homeschooler who had to leave and now I live in the US. My children were in public school, and it was not a ganztags Schule, but they were not home before 3 in the afternoon. In elementary school, mind you. When they got home they had tons of homework which lasted about 2 hours. I had a lot of work to do with "damage control' when they came home from school. The place that is so important to teach children socialization taught them that it is okay to beat weaker kids. If they didn't go along well, they were beaten on. Is that what children are supposed to learn??? I don't know about everyone else, but I don't want my children raised by other children. That doesn't work. Eating warm with good discussions when the kids come home? Do you also believe in "happy cows"??? That was when I went to school, thirty some years ago. That ship has long since sailed. The school my kids went to then changed policies and became an all day school. When I said that I would like to have some time with my children I was told by other parents, who were in powerful positions in the school that they don't have children to entertain them all day. This, my friend, is the reality. The majority of parents ( at least in Germany) is quite happy to send their children of to school and don't have to be responsible for them. They can chase after their careers and indulge themselves in whatever. If you look hard enough you find a justification to be completely self-centered....however this is totally supported by the German government. Many parents still feel their children are their responsibility and they want to teach their own children. I have nothing against Sex Ed, it is important. However I, the parent, want to determine when and how this is happening. I know that my children were not ready for sex ed in the third grade! And I can say that it was horrible for them. Children rights have come up here - I have an opinion about that. If a child has to the right to be educated - why doesn't that same child have the right to say " I waive this right to go to school, I want to be homeschooled"? WHY, if it is a right? Because it is not a right. If I have rights, I can choose to exercise these rights or not. But if I have to do the bidding of the government then it is a farce.
By the way, it really gets me when people say that for some kids homeschooling would be good but for others the future would be damaged. You know what, from my personal experience I can tell you that the children whos future would be damaged would never be homeschooled in the first place. Their parents wouldn't want to invest the time and works that comes along with it. They would still go to school. I know, now comes the argument about the immigrants that don't want their daughters in swim class...ridiculous. Why? Because if they are that hardnosed, their kids already are out on the street and not in school. Have you looked at schools lately? Homeschoolers are NOT saying that everyone has to be homeschooled! We only want that this is an option!! Tolerance is everything, right? So be tolerant. Let us have the option.

My children have been home schooled. My daughter now 25 is married and has one daughter. She has had friends of all backgrounds and friends of all ages. My son is also home schooled and also has friends of all ages and cultures. One doesn't have to sit in a classroom in order to have friends of different backgrounds.
We have attended the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. We saw firsthand Hitlers education plan. It didn't work. People should have the freedom to educate their children at home. It shouldn't be a crime. My son has learned all sorts of viewpoints from creation on down to our first ape-like ancestor named Uncle Arny! Some of it is nonsense some of it is not. Not everything homeschooling learns is all religion. After all they learn about scientist and physicist as well as math and English. Many subjects have nothing to do with God or religion. This argument is a ploy for governments to control their citizens without any freedoms at all. When all public schools can apply what Matthew 5 says than I will let my son back into your schools. Until then he's mine!

"My children were in public school, and it was not a ganztags Schule, but they were not home before 3 in the afternoon."

I dont believe this, my daughter went to the local Grundschule and was at home at midday.

"The place that is so important to teach children socialization taught them that it is okay to beat weaker kids."

This is a problem my daughter had too. I went to meet the teacher to organize a discussion with both parents and the teacher, after that they made up and even are good friends that meet regularly.
Being able to sort out differences is something very valuable and you missed your chance there to teach your child how to engage people who are dominant, and your child might be exposed to such behaviour when it gets older when it really matters.

"However I, the parent, want to determine when and how this is happening."

Actually you can until they turn 12 it will always be asked by teachers if you want youre child to revieve sex ed. With 12 it becomes mandatory, because children have the right to know whats happening with their bodies. I was ok with it. My child should learn the difference between men and women how a child is born, most children will already have asked you the question where babys come from anyway.

"If I have rights, I can choose to exercise these rights or not. But if I have to do the bidding of the government then it is a farce."

At the age of 12 your child in Germany has the right to say "No i dont want to go to church, because i dont believe in god" at the age of 14 it can change its religion at its wish. Until then the child has the right to meet with people with different backgrounds. It has the right to know, from a neutral point of view, how people with other believes live and how you can learn to be a part of society. You are allowed to influence your child but you are not allowed to keep your child away form other influences because your child is not your property, it is a human being with its own believes and not your copy or the person you dreamed to be yourself.

This is something that cant be taught by homeschooling. You have to live it to be able to choose.

@LC
"We saw firsthand Hitlers education plan. It didn't work."
Homeschooling was banned 1717 in Prussia before a german state even existed, it was banned 1871 when Bismarck founded the stat we know now as Germany, it was banned 1919 in the Weimarer Republik the first german democracy after WW1, the Nazis banned and added that children have to be educated in the Nazi way 1938, homeschooling was still banned 1949 after the war the nazi paragraph was removed and the ban even is placed in the german constitution until today.

Thats nearly 300 years of otlawing homeschooling which is older then the USA even exists.

I have a few comments:
1. I have a general problem with people who feel themselves above the law. I am not against homeschooling - I homeschool my children in the US because the public schools are so bad. Here, however, it is LEGAL. There are laws I don't like in this country as well, but I follow them. I would not homeschool in Germany since it is against the law. Where do you draw the line? Which laws can you choose to obey and which can you choose to disregard? Part of living in a democracy is accepting that the majority makes rules you don't like... that's life.

2. My experience with German schools has been wonderful, and if we lived in Germany my kids would attend school. I find it condescending form the poster who claimed everybody wanted to send their kids off so parents could do what they please. You are free to choose NOT to work - don't judge my choice to hold an outside job. My elementary school kid was home at 12 noon, at the latest at 1, with very little homework. My older student had school till 2:30 which still left plenty of time for interaction.

3. The very vocal homeschooling families in Germany do the cause a disservice. I have seen documentaries with certain unschoolers who came across as arrogant and unlikeable - they won't convince anybody to legalize homeschooling (I had much more sympathy for the Christian family portrayed in the same film). Still, I do not believe this is the way to change public perceptance and increase acceptance of homeschooling.

First of all, the article is written in such a way as to imply that the illegality of homeschooling is a result of a Hitler POLICY. Hitler-era policy simply means it was enacted during that period of history. There is no connection to Nazi-ism.

Second, the state has a vested interest in ensuring the effective education of its citizens. Uneducated or under-educated citizens are a drain on public finances. They crowd welfare roles, fill prisons, and contribute much less to the economy than their educated counterparts. The state has the responsibility to ensure that children are appropriately educated. This has been interpreted by Germany to mean that homeschooling and "un-schooling" (which means no formal schooling whatsoever, even by the parent) are inappropriate or ineffective.

This is not a religious freedom issue, as anonymous has indicated. Parents have the freedom to teach their children whatever they wish at home in addition to what is taught at school. As long as the children are not being brainwashed at school, they are free to accept or reject any knowledge presented to them. Requiring children to attend school does not prevent them from practising their religion.

Personally, I believe that homeschooling should be legal, but that parents should be required to show adequate progress. In my opinion, un-schooling is a ludicrous way to claim to prepare children for adult life.

Netzwerk (above), who is supportive of homeschooling, complains that German parents can't homeschool in the afternoon because "both of the parents are out because of their job, so there is little time for teaching children at home."

So if both parents work, who exactly does the homeschooling? And when?

To AP: Christianity was also once against the law, and the name we have for those who "broke the law" is martyrs. If these Germans are homeschooling their children because their conscience tells them that sex-ed at 7 years old and secular indoctrination are wrong, this doesn't make them the same as murderous or opportunistic lawbreakers.

Good luck to German homeschoolers...I'm very impressed with the effort you put into homeschooling. I can't imagine not having the right to choose what's best for my children. The U.S.A. may have its problems but I thank God every day for the freedoms we enjoy here.

Europe is not a free society, as we understand the term in America. There are thousands of people rotting in prison in France and Germany and other European countries because of THOUGHT CRIMES- specifically for offenses in which they challenged the official history of WWII or expressed opposition to the Third World invasion of Europe. Let us use our quickly disappearing free speech rights in the USA to fight the kosher evil that is destroying the West.

Let's not forget that for many years, home schooling wasn't legal in the US, and there are American parents who've served time in jail for it. Since its legalization, the US has seen tremendous success with home schooling, and there is a large network of home schooling families and social activites, like sports, for home schooled kids. If home schooling was legalized in Germany, the same kind of network would probably exist. I've lived in both countries, and although I like Germany a lot, I'm somewhat amazed that the German government is so strongly fighting something which has been proven harmless in other countries.