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May 8, 2012

Judge Suggests Trimming Ten Commandments to Six

Proposal could provide a compromise to First Amendment case at a Virginia public high school.

A federal judge in Virginia has proposed that two parties involved in a dispute over the display of the Ten Commandments at a public high school should consider modifying the display by removing the four Commandments that mention God.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia sued the Giles County School Board on behalf of a student over a Ten Commandments display at Narrows High School, arguing that it violated the First Amendment’s protection against endorsement of religion. The school board said the Commandments were part of a larger display of historical documents and therefore not religious.

The Commandments were already removed once from the school, but the school board voted 3-2 last summer to reinstall them after pressure from the community—a move that the ACLU argued was religion-based.

U.S. District Judge Michael Urbanski sent the case into mediation this week. “If indeed this issue is not about God, why wouldn’t it make sense for Giles County to say, ‘Let’s go back and just post the bottom six [commandments]?’” Urbanski said during the hearing.

Giles County hopes to resolve the issue without a trial, as it could face huge legal costs if the ACLU wins. Both sides will meet with Magistrate Judge Robert Ballou for mediation sessions in the coming weeks, The Roanoke Times reported.

Christianity Today has covered many Ten Commandments cases in the past, including extended coverage of the landmark case in Alabama. A 2005 editorial also highlighted the Supreme Court's inconsistent stance on the display of the Ten Commandments.

Comments

One could argue that the policy of displaying the 10 Commandments is not violative of the "establishment" clause as long as other religions' equivalents of the 10 Commandments are afforded an equal opportunity to be displayed, e.g., the Buddhist Eight-fold Way, etc. 

The ACLU evidently has adopted an "exclusionary" interpretation of the "establishment" clause, whereby the First Amendment forbids any and all government trafficking in religion whatsoever, not just the even-handed and impartial treatment of various religions. 

The former, "exclusionary", interpretation of the "establishment" clause is the interpretation I personally prefer. But the predominant case-law examples clearly indicate that, historically, this "exclusionary" interpretation is far and away in the minority. Rather, the relevant case law seems to indicate that government facilities can be used for religious purposes, provided that the facilities are equally available to all faiths. So, e.g., it is permissible for Christians to put manger scenes on the courthouse lawn, as long as Jews have equal access to install menorahs; Muslims, to put up signs with verses from the Qu'ran; etc., etc. Also, e.g., schoolrooms can be used for Christians' Bible study as long as Muslim students have equal opportunity to use schoolrooms to study the Qu'ran; Jews, the Torah and Talmud; etc., etc.  What would not be acceptable constitutionally would be for manger scenes to be permitted while menorahs were forbidden, because that would violate the "establishment" clause's mandate of strict neutrality vis a vis religion. 

I'm not a professional scholar of the US Constitution, and am certainly open to being educated otherwise, but I know of no instance in which an appellate court at any level has, strictly on "establishment" clause grounds, forbidden any and all religious expression whatsoever on public property. Equal access, yes; categorical prohibition, no. 

JRC

The word is very clear on obeying the commandments there is certainly no deviation from the word of God or a curse will certainly come upon us.
Mat 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, "O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me." (All scripture taken from the NKJV)


Deu 11:13 'And it shall be that if you earnestly obey My commandments which I command you today, to love the LORD your God and serve Him with all your heart and with all your soul,

Deu 11:27 the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you today;

Deu 11:28 and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known.

Deu 13:4 You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.

Deu 15:5 only if you carefully obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe with care all these commandments which I command you today.

Deu 26:17 Today you have proclaimed the LORD to be your God, and that you will walk in His ways and keep His statutes, His commandments, and His judgments, and that you will obey His voice.

Deu 27:10 Therefore you shall obey the voice of the LORD your God, and observe His commandments and His statutes which I command you today."

Deu 28:1 "Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the LORD your God will set you high above all nations of the earth.

Deu 28:15 "But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:

Deu 28:45 "Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you.

Deu 30:8 And you will again obey the voice of the LORD and do all His commandments which I command you today.

Deu 30:10 if you obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law, and if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Jdg 3:4 And they were left, that He might test Israel by them, to know whether they would obey the commandments of the LORD, which He had commanded their fathers by the hand of Moses.

Considering that a good number of conservative evangelical theologians--of dispensational bent--actually do believe that only 9 Commandments count today, since they reject remembering the Lord's Day (Sabbath day) and keeping it holy....from a secular judge this doesn't surprise me at all.

Yet another example of intolerance disguised as tolerance and equality. God's judgement comes in the form of giving people over to their sinful hearts. God grant the western world repentance.

It strikes me that by arguing that the Ten Commandments are essentially secular and thus permissible if displayed with other historical documents or as long as other religions have access, guts them of their significance and power. My concern for the integrity of the Ten Commandments moves me to think they should not be in government facilities (schools, courtrooms, parks, etc.) where they are inevitably diluted.

@Norman Stolpe: My concern for the integrity of the Ten Commandments moves me to think they should not be in government facilities (schools, courtrooms, parks, etc.) where they are inevitably diluted.

I have no objection to displaying the 10 Commandments, provided other religions' similar codes are permitted to be displayed -- not even necessarily are displayed, just permitted.

Otherwise, if other religions' equivalents of the Decalogue are prohibited, then the government is giving preference and privilege to Christianity, which violates the "establishment" clause of the First Amendment.

This is not a religious issue. It is a constitutional issue.

JRC

And while we're at it - let's re-name them the Six Suggestions.

Man certainly didn’t write or speak the 10 Commandments - God spoke and breathed it - upon us.

Mat 20:16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen." – At first I could never really understand the power in this verse. Today as we hear people talking or expressing there dissatisfaction against GOD. It is certainly evident there is destruction around the entire continent, man is destroying the world and disputing the word of God because they are living in total destruction.

I certainly do PRAY that the Judge will listen to the inner man within “his soul” and the judge will not listen to the outer man ‘the world around him” who is causing destruction and chaos around him and the world. If we do not continue to listen to GOD what is going to happen to our children, what is this sinful and perverse world coming to - if we do not obey the word of God and why is man struggling with the truth?

Unbelievers are struggling to deal with the truth as they are not walking in total accordance with the word of God...

The fear of God is the beginning of all knowledge. What education are you giving the students if you don't first teach them the fear of God. Without fear of God there is no respect for government, federal, state, civil, moral, parental laws, etc. There is NO higher authority than God. All of God's commandments are valid and mandatory for all of His creation.
America used to be a God-fearing nation. Sadly, that's no longer the case. The very first school textbook was the Holy Bible. The Columbines, Virginia Techs, and 9/11-type incidents will continue to permeate this godless society if we don't repent and turn back to God! No political, executive, or judicial official has the authority to confute what Almighty God has commanded. The Ten Commandments were written by God Himself and they are eternal. Fear God and keep His commandments for this is the whole duty of all mankind.

Some comments were removed due to being off topic. Please keep comments and discussions on topic as they regard to the article being discussed. Please keep comments courteous.

"The school board said the Commandments were part of a larger display of historical documents and therefore not religious".

While the first part of that statement may be true, the "therefore not religious" part is most certainly not.

In my view, one cannot reasonably argue that teachings taken directly from the Bible, obviously intended for use by adherents to the Christian faith, and that have been part of that faith for centuries, are somehow not "religious". Such arguments are, specious, disingenuous, and call into question the sincerity of the motive of those who want to post the commandments in the first place. It is eqivalent to the argument that the "Lord's Prayer" is not "Christian" becaue it speaks of "Father" and not "God".

What happens if you do "win" your case? All that you would have fought for is the right for people to view an historical document? This can easily be done in any museum. Why compromise the very principle you are fighting for by lessening its impact? In the end you will have contributed also to lessening its value.

If the Bible as a "historical" document is worth fighting for, how much more is the Bible as the "Word of God"?

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