Respectfully, I find this post a bit confusion, because this is the exact argument that gay marriage proponents have been making ever since this became an issue. The state's role in marriage is simply to recognize it between two adults and then provide the state-related benefits (tax credits, legal issues) that come along with it. The church's--or any other religious institution--is to bless it before God and to take it from being simply a civil, legal title to one that includes the divine in a relationship between two people.

That's why people without any religious beliefs can have their relationship recognized by the state. That's why it confuses a lot of pro-gay marriage people, like myself, when churches mount such opposition to what is, and has once again been recognized as, a purely civil measure.

You're being disingenuous, Melissa. There's nothing "new" about the fact that the establishment of marriage equality in civil law has no effect whatsoever on the right of churches to marry, or not marry, whoever their pastors see fit. The idea that marriage equality would "violate our religious freedom" by forcing churches to perform marriages they opposed was never anything more than a lie concocted by bigots to justify imposing their religious belief and violating the civil rights of people outside their religions.

The only violation of religious freedom at issue in the question of marriage equality is the freedom of churches that *do* recognize same-sex marriages to perform those marriages and provide the same benefit to their gay and lesbian parishioners as they do to the heterosexual members of their congregations. After marriage equality is the law of the land, Christians that are still attached to the doctrine of homophobia will still be able to discriminate to their flabby, stunted little hearts' content within the confines of their churches.

Alex, you are blatantly "avoiding the truth". Military chaplains are already required by this president to perform same sex marriages, even if contrary to their faith. Obviously, many of them will refuse to reenlist, which will probably please him very much. And it should be contrary to anyone who believes God's word, as God calls sodomy and homosexuality an abomination. If obama is elected to a second term, you can be sure that he will disregard the oath he takes to uphold the Constitution, as he has been doing, and will require civilian pastors and priests to do the same. Christianity may have to go underground if he is given a second term. He is very anti-Christian, and most people are unaware that even the ring on his finger says in arabic that "there is no god but allah". An eternity in hell is a big price to pay for refusing to acknowledge God and what He tells us very clearly.

From Romans 1:
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Hey folks why stop at two people getting married? Why not 3 or 4 or more? That is the logic of this court ruling. If I want to have 2 wives I should be able to do so under civil law because I deserve equal protection as any couple.

Folks the reasoning is bizarre. When are we going to repent of this foolishness and get back to God's way?

If you truly believed in Jesus you would know that religion is not politics. He was not bothered about what secular or religious lawyers did in Israel (Rome or Judaist groupings). He went about doing good and delivering all those oppressed of the devil. All this yelling and screaming about DOMA is because people prefer to get political and vituperative and cannot go about doing what Jesus did - which is good. Secondly, God himself and Jesus always gave people the choice to follow him or not follow his ways. He never condemned them or tried to destroy them. He loved those who did not follow him. Grow up, politician Christians and focus on Jesus way of life.

Military chaplains are absolutely not required to perform same-sex marriages, or ANY marriages which their denomination does not approve. This lie has been given life by people who seek to deny chaplains the right to marry same-sex couples at ALL even when their denomination allows it.

Religious freedom to these people is apparently "good for me; bad for you."

Former Army Captain

Well in May 17, 2012, obama, true to form, fought against freedom of religion. "According to a policy statement released by the administration yesterday, President Barack Obama “strongly objects” to provisions in a House defense authorization bill that would prohibit the use of U.S. military property in same-sex marriages and protect military chaplains who refuse to perform gay marriage ceremonies against their religious beliefs.
Arguing that the measure’s “overbroad terms,” the Obama administration claims such a measure “is potentially harmful to good order and discipline.”
Quoting him, that if he is re-elected, there will be "no holding him back", we can be assured that he will indeed, force the military chaplains to perform same-sex marriages, which has always been his intent. 359 generals and admitals are against obama winning re-election. The military has the highest suicide rate ever. His re-election is frightening to think about.
It's the democrats who want illegal aliens to vote, felons to vote, dead people votes, and multiple votes by individuals. It's the democrats working hard to see that our military votes are NOT counted. People who can't see right and wrong have doubtful salvation, because it's a clear choice this year, and it's not between a Christian and a Mormon, but a marxist and a mormon. Christianity and marxistm don't coexist, and never have. It's the most important vote in your lifetime if you're a Christian.

sue, sorry, but obama does force military chaplains to perform gay marriages. You can be assured that if he is elected again, that he will force, or try to force, civilians to do the same.
You can read about it here:

www.wnd.com/2012/10/military-forces-chaplains-to-perform-gay-marriage/

In the article it says:"He admits that some chaplains have opted out, but only with the understanding that their refusal to follow orders will mean the end of their careers"
You can KNOW that this will happen with civilians if he wins re-election, God forbid.

Dear Jeff Fairchild :

You posted that Jesus is not political as in having no interest
in the affairs of people who are not interested in His laws. His very name is the Law. Revelation 19:13 In the days before He returns, He warns us that there will be a "lawless" one who acknowledges nothing Jesus has given us in His Law. And if you look around today not only in America but the rest of the civilized world, Jesus' laws are being removed from every legal arena where they had not been banned before. Sharia law is replacing much of the world's legal practices as is evidenced in the Middle East alone in the last few years. Parts of Europe are now considering banning circumcision for men in further rejection of Jesus' law. Jesus is returning in our day. Those who were born the same time Israel was re-established as a nation after 2,000 years of exile, will be the same ones to see the Messiah return with His army to rule the entire world forever. May He return to us quickly, even this heartbeat, bashem Yeshua Amein

shosh I am afraid you have my post mixed up with someone else. It was Ampat who posted what you are referring to. I sacastically challenged the logic of the judges in the ruling.

I believe God does care about our politics and that while we need to be a loving witness we also must be salt and light and speak up against the moral rot in our society as well as in many churches who in the name of love has allowed abomination instead of righteousness to determine what is marriage and what is immorality.

May God help us to take elections more seriously than we do.

The decisions of the 1st & 2nd Circuits, and if the 9th Circuit in the case of Perry v. Brown, make a point that is pretty much bullet-proof from a constitutional standpoint. Given that the "establishment" clause of the 1st Amendmenf prohibits government from making judgments on the basis of religious / theological doctrine, the only aspect of marriage govmnt has a legitimate interest or competence in is in marriage as a purely civil / legal contract. On that basis as a purely civil / legal agreement, marriage has to be seen as essentially no different from a mortgage contract or a new-car loan.

So govmnt has no more business prohibiting gay people from enrering into the civil / legal contract known as "marriafe" than govmnt has prohibiting gay people from entering into the civil / legal contract known as "mortgage" or the civil / legal contract known as "new-car loan". All -- marriages, mortgages, car loans -- are just legal contracts, and given the government's constitutionally mandated lack of religious warrant -- that is all such agreements can be.

The religious / theological aspects of marriage are the exclusive domain of religious organizations, whose rights are safeguarded, as they always have been, by the "free exercise" clause of the 1st Amendment. No government "marriage Gestapo" is going to barge into any church or temple or mosque on Sunday morning and force the presiding cleric to marry a gay / lesbian couple.

That conservative evangelical Christians want to "theologize" all aspects of marriage is only one more piece of evidence that conservative evangelical Christians, as a group and individual exceptions notwithstanding, do not understand the US Constitution or constitutional government, and secretly -- sometimes not so secretly -- prefer a "Wahhabist" form of Christianity for the Nation's political paradigm.

JRC