I have learned, changed and grown in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ over the last 15 years. I am going to assume others, including Louie Giglio, have as well.

As one whose faith was nurtured by Giglio's teaching during the late 1990s, as a current community college educator, as a wife, mother, neighbor, and friend, and as a believer who hopes to represent Christ well, I am saddened by our political climate, and that it has prompted Giglio's decision to withdraw his participation in such a significant occasion.

The issue of Christians and our interaction with those who practice and advocate for alternative sexuality is becoming increasingly intense, almost by the hour, it seems. For me, it is but another in a string of events which call each of us to seek even more diligently for Providential guidance, wisdom, and grace.

I can't wait til' the Drug Addicts start shoving their immorality, venom & hate down our throats like these homosexually obsessed lobbyists do, this country will b SUCH a better place. Come on America!!! This is a MORAL issue. Face it, you're not born gay. There's just too much evidence the other way - Elton John, Anne Heche, Lindsay Lohan, Cinthia Nixon, M. Stipe, Ricky Martin - all ur posterboys (& girls) are flip-floppers! Do what u do n private, but don't demonize the rest of us b/c we don't agree w/ Dung-Hole Worship.

And 'gay' is about the worst misnomer I could possibly think of. I mean how many 'happy' 50-60 somethings, homosexual men do you know? Most (in fact all of MY friends that age) are totally miserable & depressed because their 'community' has totally shunned them. The young bucks detest them & just want them to go away. They are totally alone. I wish it wasn't so, but the homosexual lifestyle is a cruel, lonely trap.

You write: " Ed Stetzer asks whether there is still room for evangelicals in the public square."

That all depends on where the square is located. If it's the square in DC or the Northeast or large cities elsewhere, Evangelicals and other traditionalists have been squeezed out -- no room. If it's flyover country, on the other hand, then traditionalists have a voice. Leftist interest groups along with their co-conspirators in the mass media are working hard to change that, of course, by force of law. And this is why secession must become a viable option. We are two countries now. I don't want to live in theirs and they sure AH don't want to live in mine. Irreconcilable differences they are. Let's get the conversation going!

I commend Giglio for withdrawing!!

I have to disagree with some comments made...I do believe that out of sin people are born gay. What would make a man want to make love to another man? What would make a woman want to make love to another woman? The physical attraction is more than a choice. Now I do believe that living an openly gay lifestyle is absolutely a choice. I don't think that anyone would "choose" to live as an outcast and have their rights to live openly with the person they love completley stripped away from them.

I think Louie did the right thing. As my own views of the relationship between church and state has grown, I have shifted from the belief that Christians should participate deeply in the political process to the belief that politics is a dead end and we should live out our beliefs regardless of the political process. Being out of the process means to me 1) that my own personal peace has grown since I backed out of participation or even following politics much and 2) I no longer feel responsible for America's course. America will go where it will go, and I believe that for me to bless it by showing up to pray to a vague secular God to bless our sinful course is wrong in itself. I'm tired of God's name being used in vain on every side.

Christians choose to live life outcasted and ostrasize all the time.
If you are born gay, they can be born again!
Homosexuals have more rights than anyone and they have not been stripped of any of their inalienable rights. DiverCity confusing people , bro read your comment. Where do you stand on this! Homosexuality is sin period, nature shows you that! A country that preaches productivity and tell me where is the productivity in homosexuality. I will say this though, the government has no right to support or oppose gay rights.

God will judge that rightfully!

This is so disappointing. It shows that gay rights trump all other issues, including the global shame of human trafficking. This really is a sort of McCarthyism at its worst. Shame on you, administration; shame on you, media.

Louie and other spiritual leaders should not have accepted the their invitations in the first place. Period. Obama is just using Christians for his purposes and plans. They should have declined the invitation as protest against what evil and sin Obama is allowing to take root in America.

You know, I can't recall the last time that I heard someone accuse a pastor of being "anti-premarital sex", but clearly scripture denounces any sexual immortality that exists outside of marriage between a man and a woman. I wonder why no one is upset that this is preached/taught as well. Just an observation, really.

I will try to share my understanding about this.I don't believe anyone is born gay, but nobody is saved by not being gay,anyone can get saved by putting their faith in Jesus Christ, and as many as obey God receive the Holy Spirit. In James says if anyone is sick,let the elder lay hands on them; the prayer of faith will save the sick. If people pray they can be delivered from it.

The ultimate and most all-encompassing goal of the gay agenda is to force our society to fully accept their lifestyle as morally, socially, legally, religiously, politically and financially equivalent to the heterosexual lifestyle. This goal is for not only acceptance, but also affirmation and celebration of homosexual behavior as normal, natural, healthy and desirable (11, 13, 14). This is what the homosexual movement is really all about. The traditional civic virtue of tolerance is being replaced with a new ethic requiring approval and endorsement of homosexuality.

Meanwhile the frog stirred somewhat as the temperature of the water is the pan was turned up ever so slightly.

That's a lie. Giglio was dropped by The White House. He didn't "bow out."

I agree with Elizabeth that in this administration, gay rights trump all other issues, including the global shame of human trafficking. This really is a sort of reverse McCarthyism at its worst. If you don't share his radical immoral agenda, you are vilified. This president is aggressively pushing homosexual marriage, homosexual advocacy in schools and the military. He is also the bloodiest President when it comes to abortion, being a fervent supporter of partial birth abortion, the killing of live birth babies during abortion and the dismembering of 53 million babies. He is the overwhelming choice of atheists and many radical feminists voted for him because he is so aggressive about baby killings and gay marriage. Obama still practices Renditions, still runs Guantanamo, conducts undeclared wars, hunts down enemies with drones, persecutes Christian schools like Wheaton. Giglio should have never succumbed to the temptation to participate in the inauguration. He was just being cynically used to further deceive evangelicals.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full." Matthew 6:5

The preacher is free to spew his anti-gay bigotry on his own dime. He's not free to demand a national stage -- one that belongs to all Americans -- to launch attacks against an entire class of citizens. Obama is president of the entire country -- not just anti-gay Christians -- and he's right to protect the historic occasion from being marred by outdated prejudice.

Um, yeah, if you have a habit of saying nasty things about a minority, you can hardly expect the president to make you part of national ceremony. If Giglio had called Muslims or Jews or Mormons "an abomination", there is no doubt he'd get the boot. He says that crap about GLBT Americans, he deserves the boot too.

While I respect Pastor Giglio's decision to bow out, I can't stop thinking that we (those who believe Homsexually is a sin) are running from a pack of bullies.
Why is it that so much effort is being put into disparaging those who don't agree with the Homosexual lifestyle?

Yeah, I agree with Kathleen and Beatrice. In fact, you'll be a lot safer if you just get that Bible out of your house. So you won't be tempted to spew any anti-homosexual opinions. Or talking trash about Sodom and Gommorah. They didn't want Lot in their city either. And Giglio should keep his narrow minded opinions about Jesus being the only way to God to himself, we live in a pluralistic society. We should give Giglio the boot. Boot him out of the country for insulting GLBT Americans. Yeah, that's the ticket.

It is a shame that Louie's presence at the Inauguration will not be calling attention to the issue of modern-day slavery. As the mother of two young women who have been significantly impacted by Passion Conferences, I lament the controversy. Scripture says what it says. People who don't believe it sure seem to get riled up about its teaching. In this country we are all free to believe as we choose. And if Louie
Giglio were interested in "market share", ministry was not a savvy choice.

Louie so much wanted to be the Social Justice Pastor, the hipster that attracts millenials, the safer, more orthodox version of Rob Bell. Passion was 60,000 kids, jumbotron screens, supergraphics, a laser light that projected up 3 miles into the sky, slick ATMs for donations, cool music, plenty of social justice causes. I'm sure Obama was salivating at getting Louie to Washington. But he gave in to temptation and agreed to pray at BHO's inauguration. So now he is vilified in the press as the Anti-Gay preacher for a sermon the press dug out that is 20 years old. Oh well. Welcome the rest of us narrow minded religious bigots who follow the crucified one who claimed to be the only way to God.

This is only the beginning of the horror show, folks. Just the beginning.

American Christians voted for Barack Obama last November, even though Obama gave fair warning about his unholy gay-marriage intentions. Now American Christians are going to PAY for that shameful vote. So go get some popcorn--the show's just starting.

I agree that Giglio didn't drop out. The WH asked/told him to drop out. Just like Susan Rice.

I wonder what Obama and the Democrats expect to gain from having a benediction that is basically an empty ritual done out of tradition. Is the act mostly a pretense to show that the president is still "Christian"? Do they expect some sort of divine blessing from a God that is not honored and respected? If I read the Bible correctly, acts of vain worship are an offense to God and an invitation for divine judgment. In the Old Testament, God was not pleased with Cain's offering, and we all know how that story turned out.

'Committee spokeswoman Addie Whisenant said in a statement. "As we now work to select someone to deliver the benediction, we will ensure their beliefs reflect this administration's vision of inclusion and acceptance for all Americans." ' (Fox News)

Funny, but as a native-born Christian American who believes in First Amendment rights of freedom of speech and freedom of practice of religion, which includes believing that what the Bible says about homosexuality is as straightforward as it appears and must be communicated in a loving manner (as it appears Pastor Louie Giglio did), I am not feeling any sense of inclusion or acceptance by the Obama administration.

It's sad that our culture demands almost perfect conformity to the ideals of the status quo.

I commend Giglio for withdrawing since the scrutiny by the media could very well eclipse the good that he's doing in the church.

The Gay issues is serious and yet I am sure we are all aware of the President's position on abortion which is even more serious than a lifestyle choice. I understand the need to look for areas of agreement but it is not these areas that causes the problems it is the differences. We just can't be silent regarding abortion or the Lordship of Christ, The President is the President of all the people and when we go quitely into the night we either come across as sending a message that we have a weak position or no right to our faith and yet if we appear on stage with a President that has shown hostility to Jesus in word and deed then are we showing support or even agreement to his postion..I think the Pastor did the right thing by standing down from the Presidents side and standing up for Jesus.

Ah, my heart bleeds for all the Christians who can't use the inauguration to push their anti-gay prejudices. Clearly these Christians are the victims of terrible persecution because America no longer embraces their bigotries.

If a Spirit-filled Christian were being sworn into the office of president, things in this culture would be a great deal different. Is it our place as Christians to merely pray for politicians? Or should we aspire to, train for, acquire, and righteously exercise political power? We whine and resign ourselves to live in a morally bankrupt culture. Isn't it time for a new approach, such as Revelation 5:10?

Bill McK, you are not being fair in your comments. No one is saying thaty wanted to push anti-gay prejudices at the inauguration - and certainly Louie Giglio would not have done that.

So much ignorance in these comments. What a perversion of Christianity so many of you believe in. Your hate speech should make you ashamed, your ignorance even more so. When spiritual terrorism and bullying (as epitomized in Giglio's sermon) become the bywords of Christianity, then you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. Instead of loving your neighbor, you have practiced hatred and distorted the Word of God.

Giglio cherry picks the Bible. He tries to terrify gay people with the news that Leviticus says gay people should be executed. (The Bible also says that people who don't observe the Sabbath or who commit adultery should be executed.) Do you seriously think the author of such a sermon is a fit representative of Christianity? Well, obviously you do, because you agree with such a low and detestable distortion of Christ's message.

Cherry pick Jay? You must have a new definition of Cherry Pick. You find the sin of homosexuality, cross dressing, lesbianism specifically called out all throughout the Bible. Homosexuality or the sin of Sodom is referred to Genesis, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Amos, Luke, Romans, 1st Corinthians, 1st Timothy, 2nd Peter and Jude, with Sodom or Sodomites cited 43 times. Jesus says that in the last days people will behave like Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus brother Jude says "Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." The apostle peter says, "He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter." Jesus says in Luke 17:29, "on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed." How much clearer can you get? Cherry Pick? The press could find only 1 20 year old recorded sermon from Giglio, this is not a subject he dwells on. The amusing thing to me is that he is viewed as a liberal pastor, whose mission is social justice and ending slavery. He has developed a friendship with Obama. Funny.

The fact that Giglio's apologists keep referencing the age of his anti-gay sermons ("20 years old!") tells us that even they understand that his comments are noxious and he does not deserve a place of honor at a national ceremony that speaks to the *entire* nation. If he was chosen to speak at Focus on the Family or some other anti-gay organization, I doubt if anyone would care, but he's not worthy to speak for or to a nation.

Christians are being persecuted and bullied and attacked! The proof: an anti-gay pastor is not given a presidential platform to address the nation. Every one knows that it is the RIGHT of anti-gay preachers to have a national microphone paid for by taxpayers (including gay Americans), so the withdrawal of an inaugural invitation is an example of the vicious brutal persecution of Christians!

Marcus, close to 100% of evangelical pastors believe the Bible teaches than any sex outside of marriage is sin. Whether it is gay sex, straight sex, it is sin. No Evangelical pastors that I know of support gay marriage. Nor do any Catholic priests or Bishops. No Christian pastors that I know of in Africa, China, or South America differ, they are even stronger in these areas, as the African Anglicans demonstrate. It is because the Bible is abundantly clear on these matters. You may find ex-evangelicals (like Brian McLaren), or those who no longer believe the Bible is true, or believe the Bible is mythological or metamorphical who support homosexual relationships. The amusing thing is that Giglio wanted to be known as a friend of Obama, wanted a reputation as a liberal, wanted to be perceived as the social justice Christian, the foe of slavery world-wide. But the McCarthyites on the left found a 20 year old sermon where he expressed a biblical doctrine that virtually all evangelical pastors have expressed. Ah yes, you outed him and purged him for thought crimes. You can't have it both ways. I am not an apologist for Giglio. The Bible in unequivocal in these areas.

Beatrice, Giglio is not an anti-gay preacher. Far from it. He hasn't said anything anti-gay in 20 years. That's why the Stalinists had to root through his old recordings to finally find a 20 year old recording of him expressing thought crimes. You guys are truly funny. And scary.

Rick, above, with all your references to sodom & gommorrah, you should know that most serious biblical scholars do not think that sodom has anything to do with homosexuality. And to those who claim that Christianity condemns all sex outside marriage, then why didn't Giglio preach a sermon saying that all adulters should be stoned and that they are all going to hell? That's about as biblical as the Levitical passages that also say that people who do not observe the sabbath should be put to death. You people don't even know the bible. And as far as Giglio's work on ending slavery, if he really wanted to be biblical, he would be advising slaves to obey their masters. That's what the bible does.

As far as the sermon being 20 years old, you should know that it has been around all these years on websites, spewing its ugly message of spiritual terrorism. Nothing Stalinist about holding someone accountable for their own statements.

It also seems that Giglio has a hand in the kill the gays bill in Uganda, where his church seems to be supporting a pastor who is one of the leading proponents of that ugly piece of work.

Most Christians don't believe the ugliness that is found in Giglio's sermon, and in some of the comments here.

AS for Christians being a persecuted group, I'll believe that when it becomes possible to prevent Christians from getting married, when it becomes possible to fire someone simply for being Christian, when it becomes possible to prohibit Christians from adopting children, when it becomes possible to refuse Christians public accommodations or insurance coverage, etc.--all the daily indignities that homosexuals face in many areas of this country.

Until recently, homosexuals could be sentenced to prison in some states simply for having sex in the privacy of their bedrooms, they were unable to serve openly in the military, they could be barred from visiting their loved ones in the hospital. Thank goodness, President Obama has helped redress some of these injustices. But until Christians are treated anywhere nearly as badly as homosexuals have been in this country--usually by Christians--they will have no idea what it means to be persecuted.

Jay, whether you know it or not, most serious Bible commentators believe without question that Sodom and Gomorrah stand as an example forever as a civilization that rejected their God-given identity and embraced homosexuality whole heartedy only to be judged by God. I have a shelf full of various serious Bible commentators. I have studied and taught the Bible for 42 years. Do you need names? I hardly ever talk about homosexuality, only when someone asks as I am sure is the case with Giglio. It is only gay apologists that try to twist the scriptures. What does this mean to you from Jesus brother Jude, ""Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Rick, you obviously know nothing about biblical textual history. By serious scholars, the Sodom story is regarded as about hospitality. The anti-intellectualism of most (not all) Evangelicals is matched only by their inability to see that the spirit of Christianity is supposed to be love and acceptance. The spiritual terrorism practiced by Giglio in his now-famous sermon is repulsive on so many levels, but most profoundly because it is a betrayal of what Jesus taught. If the best you can do to spread the Gospel is to threaten people with hell fire, you have missed the whole message of Jesus.

I gotta laugh at the poor chaps crying "McCarthyism!", "Stalinism!" "Persecution!" -- all because some Christian fundie preacher with a history of unfortunate anti-gay remarks isn't invited to address the entire country at a presidential event. Because being sent to a concentration camp or blacklisted from employment is just like not getting a presidential speaking slot.
What's next? Will Christians claim they're being martyred if retail stores don't play Jesus songs in December? Oh, wait......

Agree with MarcusA. Also just imagine what would have happened if Romney had won and, then, in an effort to unite the divided country, he had invited Bishop Gene Robinson. I can just hear conservative Christians being outraged that a Bishop who is married to his partner had been invited to give a prayer! So much for free speech and giving everyone a place in the market of ideas.

Jay, have it your way. The city of Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed, man woman and child burned up by fire from heaven, never to be rebuilt again because they were just not good hosts. Where is Martha Stewart when you need her? Jesus brother Jude says "Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." Maybe they were exhibited as an example and "punished in eternal fire" for serving strange hors de ouevres. Those little bacon wrapped cocktail vienna sausages. Serves em right those canned wieners are heinous. And of course, when Moses says in Deuteronomy 23, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel." He meant no bad hostesses. They took their tea times seriously.

Marcus, the only people on this site who are talking about Christians being persecuted are liberal gay apologists. Its called a straw man argument. Bill McK, Beatrice, Jay, and Marcus are the only ones using that word in mockery of Christians on this site. Check it out and re-read every comment as I just did. I believe instead that what we have here is a severe case of groupthink, political correctness run amok, not allowing any dissent. McCarthy asked the question, “Have you or anyone you know ever been a member of the communist party or know someone who has?” And then they would send operatives to search someone’s trash or do a deep background check. Or in this case track down an obscure, 20 year old sermon, NOT a video, NOT on youtube, just audio, expressesing an opinion that differs from the party line, when this man was in his 20s. And then brand it HateSpeech. It is a political litmus test from a narrow minded society. Stalinist society required no deviation from Groupthink. Didn’t you guys read Huxley’s Brave New World or Ray Bradbury’s Farenheit 451 or CS Lewis’s That Hideous Strength?

We should be clear. Jesus never tolerated sin and never said that it was "ok". Never.
His words to people were "repent and sin no more". Repent means to ask for forgiveness and stop sinning, turn from your ways. Nobody forces you to sin, God has given you a choice. I could sit here and state that I come from a family that has alcoholics for 3 or 4 generations, but that gives me no excuse for being one myself. I am responsible for my own actions. I knew from early on that I would not carry that on in my generation or in my children's generation. I saw the terrible hurt it caused. Surely you see the hurt and even death from sodomy. The cell layer there is only one cell thick, the skin gets broken very easily, and it leads to many diseases in addition to AIDS, such as hepatitis B. Probably every homosexual reading this has lost friends to AIDS. Jesus ate with tax collectors, but they were not sinning by doing their jobs. They were just unpopular people, then as now, as seen by some.

The words used in the Bible other than homosexual were "going after strange flesh" and "sodomy". It is clear what the Bible is saying. The word idol was never used with sodomy, etc. It is listed as sexual sins. The Bible says that sexual sins are particularly bad because believers have the Holy Spirit in them.

Unlike what some people say, who probably never step in a church, our church will disfellowship people who get divorced for unbiblical reasons, with 1Cor chapter 5 as the example for us to use. Our church has approximately 4,000 people. This is done only after much counseling, and truly reaching out to help the couple. Our church also preaches against any fornication, which is sex without marriage. There is nothing in the Bible to even hint that men should have sex with men, or women with women. It is disgusting, degrading, and an abomination before God. Various studies have shown that marriage to homosexuals usually means an "open relationship", meaning that they do not have to stay with that particular partner. They are using it to gain rights they don't deserve. Or the person may be their favorite partner, but they don't often stay true to that person. The reason? Unbelievers have an evil heart and don't use the Bible as their moral compass.

Jude 1:7 "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."
Homosexuality is called "gross immorality and going after strange flesh". Sorry, nothing there about idols! Or else, some are making sex with same-sex partners an idol, and nothing should replace God or His Word.

Since any day may be our last day, or Jesus may return for His believers, it is imperative that true believers trust and believe the Bible. It is very clear regarding this. God's word before man's word, before you are thrown into the eternal fire! If you think things are bad in Uganda? Wait until God's wrath, and then it is too late to repent.
We are all speaking in love, trying to save your eternal soul, because we do know what the Bible teaches in both testaments. If you don't believe in God or in God's Word, then admit it. The Bible says it is useless to thrown pearls among swine. But since we don't know whether you believe or not, we are praying that the believers will repent before it is too late.

"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." Hebrews 10:26-27

People ARE enemies of God when they use their own imaginations to believe in, rather than God's Word. Yes, enemies. And lastly,
for those who think that God forgives everything, including unbelievers and people who knowingly, willfully sin, this verse states the truth:
"By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother."1John 3:10

Knowingly, willfully sinning is NOT practicing righteousness. They are practicing something that God calls an abomination. That has not changed, Jesus reinforces it. All of this is given in love, in the hope that it will touch at least one heart, in the hope that some of those reading this are Christian and feel uneasy about what they are doing. Please repent and change your ways, before it is too late. God is not only a loving God, but He is a righteous God, and a God of wrath. My prayers are for those who see themselves that they will change their ways, it can be done, pray about it and ask for God's help and guidance, He won't let you down!

Believe what you like about the morality of being gay. If you think it’s sinful, OK. But at least get the scientific / medical facts straight. The evidence is strong and growing that biological & genetic factors are strongly predisposing if not determining our sexual preferences. It's long past being a matter of opinion. The writing is on the wall: the next generation will accept that sexual preference is pretty much like skin color, i.e. no choice.

I’m a WASP & terminally straight & have no gay family members, so I have no dog in this fight. I’m just astonished that so many comments here reflect the belief that gay is a choice. Consider this: Did you *choose* to be heterosexual? Or did it just come naturally to you the way it came naturally to me? I didn’t choose to be heterosexual -- like you, I just discovered that I was. Like you, I had no choice. Gays have no choice same as you & I.

Sometimes we hear that, well, even if you have those urges you don’t have to act on them. Sure thing. Can you imagine not acting on your heterosexuality & switching over to gay because someone has convinced you that being hetero is immoral? I can’t & I think it makes no sense to ask gays to do the equivalent of what we cannot imagine asking ourselves to do.

I am always amazed by the arrogance of ignorant people who believe that their interpretation of the Bible is the only possible interpretation and are quite willing to terrorize others by means of biblical quotations. That not only perverts scripture, it embodies the great sin of pride.

Do you think we need to go back to chaining the bible to the pulpit and that only the priest can interpret the Bible? God made the Bible so that it can be interpreted with the help of the holy spirit. Sorry but sodomy is sodomy and that is very clear. I guess you want it to condone your sin. Alcoholism has been shown to be genetic but I choose not to drink. God has given me control over my own actions.

Rick, your attempts to play the victim card for Christians are embarrassing. Christian fundamentalists are still free to spout their anti-gay notions, but that prejudice is no longer welcome in mainstream society, so you won't get public platforms or prestigious national events to do it at. That's what you're really upset about -- the fact that, like racism in the 1970s, homophobia is no longer socially acceptable. Your attempt to portray yourself as victimized or censored is absurd, as is your notion that because society has progressed we are somehow practicing 'groupthink'.

The actual groupthink is on the part of the fundamentalists who ignore science and common sense in their desperate attempt to force all of American society to accept your Bible-based prejudices. Racists still cite Bible passages to support their racism and anti-gay bigots will continue to cite selective Bible passages to support their fixation on LGBT, so you needn't worry about your legal right to verbally attack or condemn gays. But times have changed and you will no longer find broad public acceptance for it. Society has progressed and you're being left behind. That doesn't make you a victim who deserves sympathy, it makes you an anachronism who deserves pity.

Poor Rick and Shannon and many other fundamentalists have chosen to believe that they are victimized because most of the country does not want their version of religion forced on them. But they are far from persecuted, and neither is Pastor Giglio.

Not only has Pastor Giglio not been silenced, but he also doesn't have a RIGHT to give a prayer at the Inauguration. (Neither do I.) Indeed, many of the same people crying crocodile tears for him now were among those who attacked him for accepting the invitation in the first place.

Christians won’t be able to say they are persecuted until it is legal in 29 states to fire someone simply for being a Christian, when in many states Christians are prohibited from adopting children, when many universities and other institutions refuse to accept them if they are openly Christian, when public accommodations such as restaurants and hotels and bars etc. refuse them service, and when they are prohibited by law in 44 states from marrying the person they love.

Oh, those are the conditions that homosexuals live under right now in this land of the free and brave, and that, in his sermon, Pastor Giglio clearly indicates that he wants to continue and, indeed, extend.

I rather think that Christians far from being persecuted, often persecute others. At least some Christians do. More and more, however, Christians are rejecting the spiritual terrorism practiced by Pastor Giglio in his sermon and are supporting the rights and dignity of gay people as they attempt to model the love and compassion exemplified by Jesus.

Jay neither rick nor I have claimed to be victims. We have simply called sin a sin. And you and all the other homosexuals are the ones playing the victim card for all its worth. You and your friends are the experts at that.

Do you read the comments you and your colleagues post? Just read them. Over and over you people say you are being victimized, robbed of your liberty, persecuted for your Christian beliefs. Of course, it is all nonsense. You have all the rights that most American citizens have. The same can not be said of homosexuals, thanks largely to people like you. You are feeling victimized because it is becoming more and more difficult for you to victimize others. Your victims are fighting back and that feels like a strange new world to you. I advise that you get used to it. This country will resist your attempt to impose your religious beliefs on everyone. And those of us who are true Christians will resist your speaking as though hatred is a Christian virtue and that only your interpretation of scripture is correct. We have freedom of religion in this country.

This is a tricky one. AT first glance it is a shame not to use this opportunity to highlight Christ´s image and the need for christian Guidance and Wisdom for the president at this crucial moment in America´s history. But, I can see the thinking of the group in trying not to Support an agenda that is already overflowing. Nevertheless, I sugesst deep introspection about the rationale for refusing. I feel that God provided an opprtunity for the Christians to Pray for the President and the nation. God knows what artillery is being prepared for the occasion,including the gay issue. We CANNOT back down from the exepected confrontation ALL the time. We neeed to be prepared to Stand our Own in the face of advancing Sodom and Gomorrah.Homosexuals get agressive as their numbers and cuase gains support. If we, Christians keep running they will hold sway.A clear message of SIn and Evil needs to be preached as often as the opportunity presents itself.

>

Jay - bingo! That's the best thing I've read anywhere on
the web for the last month.

Well said Shannon at 2:01am

Well I guess now in the 21st century if you disagree with what someone says or does you are automatically guilty of hate speech.

Btw This is now the new definition of intolerance. To disagree = To be intolerant.

It works this way on both sides.

For details on how to identify extremists (And most use words not weapons) see the following site http://www.lairdwilcox.com/news/hoaxerproject.html

I've just listened to the message - and two things strike me:

a) how the selective quoting by some of the publications reporting on this (particularly that by thinkprogress) completely misrepresents Giglio's overall attitude. He does make clear that homosexual activity is sinful, but he goes out of his way to make clear that the response should not be intolerance or homophobia.

b) I personally tend to be a bit more moderate in my language than Giglio was in his message - I don't think I would have gone as far as explicitly claiming an "aggressive agenda". However, point a above seems to very much prove him right.

Isn't it possible that Giglio has developed his thought and placed more emphasis on other issues? It's so odd that one had to dig into the past and find a sermon preached 20 years ago without asking about what he preaches about now.

Re: Matt Leonard. I hope that Giglio has changed his mind and his approach toward homosexuality over the last 15 years. I assume that he had an opportunity to disavow his hateful sermon. He refused to do so. But it seems to be the case that he has not preached on the subject of homosexuality since then, or at least no one has found a recording of such a sermon.

He could have defused much of the controversy over his selection, had he simply said, "I have evolved on the issue. I do not believe what I said 15 years ago." Instead, he merely pointed out, "Clearly, speaking on this issue has not been in the range of my priorities in the past fifteen years."

A generous interpretation of that statement is that he realized that the kind of spiritual terrorism he practiced in that horrible sermon was itself sinful. A less generous interpretation is that he cynically decided that there was more profit in concerning himself with other issues.

That is why I believe the Church must divest itself of government partnership: Stop being the handmaid of government. Marriage is an act of God. Marriage licenses are an act of the state. No where does Scripture say that marriages have to have state sanction. The state uses marriage to tax the lawfully married more than those who shack up. The state uses marriage to pay single social security recipients more than the married. And the state willl force the Church to perform homosexual nuptuals. If the Church stops doing licensed marriages (stops signing marriage licenses), then the state will have no say in what the Church does regarding marriage, and the Church won't have any vested interest in what the state calls "marriage". On this point I would agree with they Church/state separatists, but they would never suggest such a thing. The truth is, many of them want the state to have it's hand in the Church, and the Church to do it's bidding.

In reference to the reason God destroyed Sodom, Ezekiel 16:49-50 KJV "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister, Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy and they were haughty and committed abomination before me; therefore I took them away as I saw good.

It sounds like God had a number of reasons to judge that city---idleness, not caring for their poor, and their pride and arrogance---in addition to the sexual immorality (part of the abominations). It seems only one of Sodom's sins tends to be remembered; I guess because Christians view it as the worst of those mentioned?

Gayle, you realize Ezekiel is not talking about Sodom, he is talking about Israel? The prophet is using metaphorical, prophetic language. Read the context "Thou art thy mother's daughter, that lotheth her husband and her children; and thou art the sister of thy sisters, which lothed their husbands and their children: your mother was an Hittite, and your father an Amorite. And thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters." Ezek. 16:45, 46. Israel is not actually a sister, is not actually the daughter of a Hittite and Amorite. Israel's (which the prophet calls Thy Sister Sodom) problem was selfishness, pride and mistreatment of the poor. Sodom was never in captivity ("the captivity of Sodom and her daughters") but israel was captive in Babylon. The Bible is the guilty culprit of always reminding us of the sexual perversion of Sodom. Jesus brother Jude says Sodom will always be a memorial to sexual perversion and its punishment, "Jude 1:7 "just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." So please, blame Jude, not evangelicals. Or blame Peter "But God also rescued Lot out of Sodom because he was a righteous man who was sick of the shameful immorality of the wicked people around him. Yes, Lot was a righteous man who was tormented in his soul by the wickedness he saw and heard day after day. So you see, the Lord knows how to rescue godly people from their trials, even while keeping the wicked under punishment until the day of final judgment. He is especially hard on those who follow their own twisted sexual desire, and who despise authority." 2 Peter 2:7-10.

I do not believe God, through Ezekiel, is referring in poetic language to Israel when he speaks of Sodom. He is comparing/judging Judah to these cities and peoples...Sodom, which He destroyed because of their wickedness and Samaria, the capital of the northern kindom (Israel), looked down on by Judah as totally disgusting. Ezekiel 16:56 "You (Judah) would not even mention Sodom in the day of YOUR pride and before YOUR wickedness was uncovered." Ezekiel 16:47,48 "You (Judah) not only walked in their (Sodom's) ways and copied their detestable practices, but in all your ways you soon became more depraved than they." "As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done."
Then the scripture goes on to list the sins of Sodom in verse 49.
Later, according to Matthew 10:15, 11:20-25 and Luke 10:12, Jesus said..."And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than you." They may have been for the most part moral...I'd guess they were not guilty of the sinful abominations of Sodom, but they will be judged worse (like in Ezekiel) as a city or nation because they rejected Jesus as the Messiah, His kingdom and saw no need to repent.

Is this true about Americans now?

"Also, new survey results released by LifeWay Research today indicate that fewer than 2 in 5 Americans now believe that homosexual behavior is a sin (though most change has been from "Yes" to "I don't know")."

Isn't it ironic that while there are too many "popular" Christian televangelist and authors in the US, they seem to have very little impact on the spiritual landscape of their nation? You know why? Well, simply because most of them are afraid to confront this issue of homosexual lifestyle in their nation. They are very ambiguous about the issue. They are reluctant to categorically state the homosexual lifestyle to be directly and diametrically opposed to Biblical values.

As it was in the days of the prophets in the nation of Israel, the state of the nation in general is always indicated by the state of its spiritual leadership in particular. The US doesn't have that leadership anymore.

Back to the WORD!

I think the real issue here is the way that the role of sex in our culture is so bloated and misshapen. A satisfying sexual relationship has become the highest good that we can attain to. And if that’s the case, if the only real point of life is to be happy and to enjoy sexual intimacy with another person, then of course it’s terrible to tell someone that, hey, you shouldn’t do that because your partner of choice is the same gender as you are.

The thing is, Jesus didn’t come to make us happy, but to make us holy. In my own experience, my relationship with Christ has been about moving me past a fixation on earthly things, and showing me how my true hope and joy comes from His promises and His character. Of course we all have relational needs and authentic, intimate relationships are really important. But intimate relationships don’t necessarily equal sexual relationships. Celibacy isn’t the worst thing that can possibly happen to a person!

The issue is, where am I placing my hope and identity? In earthly happiness and pleasures, or eternal promises of the humble One who found His pleasure in reconciling sinners to the Father?

Kate, that sums it all up. I am not an American and certainly the debate of rights (gay or not) have taken us Christians away from the key question about god's calling for us. If we are Christians, we should know better about holiness. Whether its sex, money or status on society, our rights and comfort are not our priority.

Of course we cannot hold non believers to the same standards; let alone the fact that we Christians are struggling to, which is why Christi forgiveness is so precious to me.

Enough with the aggressive gay activists here. I am not here to participate a holy war against the gay crusaders. And i am not holiner than them, as i have been struggling with lust. I am grateful for His forgiveness and I am seeing encouraging changes in my life.
This debate is not what God calls me to do. Debates like this go nowhere and it just become white noise after a few comments. In fact, what we need more is not debate but wisdom and discernment which comes from the fear of the lord. We are all free to make our stands but God is not interested in making a point. Since I can't make a difference in this debate, I will focus my energy on where I can.
There are lots of opportunities for mission out there guys. Don't be despaired. Jesus did not try to change all pharisees cos he knows their hearts were hardened.
Don't allow these debates distract you. You are doing great work up the wall and you cannot come down.
Sorry I am missing out some points here but hopefully my message is clear.