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February 1, 2013
Will Boy Scouts Board Members Lift the Ban on Gay Members?
(Updated) Ahead of this month's vote on a plan to lift the gay-member ban, the Boy Scouts of America says a majority of members support the current policy.
Update (May 7): The board members of the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) are expected to vote this month on whether or not to lift the organization's ban on gay members. Ahead of the vote, though, the BSA says more than 6 in 10 adult members support the existing policy.
BSA conducted a survey of more than 1 million adult members, of whom 200,000 participated. The results showed that members "support the current policy by a 61 percent to 34 percent margin."
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Update (April 19): Reuters reports that the Boy Scouts of America will end its ban on gay members, pending ratification by a board vote in May.
According to the Associated Press, the organization "is proposing to lift the ban for youth members but continue to exclude gays as adult leaders."
ReligionClause offers links to the proposal here.
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Update (Feb. 6): The board of the Boy Scouts of America decided to delay its vote until its annual meeting in May, saying that more discussion is needed.
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This coming Sunday is "Scout Sunday," a day when many churches honor the Boy Scouts of America. But for conservative churches, it may be the last.
Religious groups currently sponsor nearly three-quarters of Boy Scouts chapters; but a board meeting next week, which is expected to drop a longstanding national ban on gay members in favor of allowing local councils to set sexuality guidelines, may prompt an exodus by conservative churches.
This in turn may swell the ranks of a Southern Baptist alternative to the Scouts.
CT recently noted how the Scouts's British inspiration is making plans to allow atheist members. CT also reported how courts were divided over whether or not the Scouts could ban gay members until the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that they could in 2000.
Comments
This would be just wrong, for at least two reasons: First, it approves and sanctions a form of sexual immorality that God calls an abomination; and second, it would expose the scouts to an unprecedented level of risk for sexual predation, because there are solid links between homosexuality and pedophilia: 1) the percentage of convicted male child molesters who self-identified as homosexual in this study is 20 times as high (30% divided by 1.5%) as the percentage of males in the general population who self-identify as homosexual; and 2) the practice and celebration of consensual sexual involvement of adult homosexual men with young male teens and boys has a history dating back to ancient times. In modern times, this practice is largely represented in America by an organization called the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA). This group openly and proudly practices, and lobbies for acceptance of, pedophilia, claiming that they are doing their under-age victims a favor by having sex with them. Parents beware!
Posted By: James Aist | February 1, 2013 5:43 PM
My church has had a scout troop since the '30s; this is the longest of any other troop in our rather large council.
Every several years, someone wants to kick out the Boy Scouts because they are noisy, destructive, and my all-time favorite reason: BECAUSE THEY DON'T EVEN GO TO CHURCH!!! In fact, on Scout Sunday, there will be scouts in our sanctuary who have never been in any sanctuary.
THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT for having scouts. You don't require perfection of the boys BEFORE they join scouts. You have them in scouts to encourage discipline and reverence as part of the process of being scouts.
When I was in scouts 50 years ago, they didn't ban homosexuals. Nobody could care less. As for sex, well, when I went to CHURCH camp, we slept out under the stars with girls; the same as when I went on mission trips. That didn't mean we engaged a big 24/7 orgy.
When we talk about the "banning of homosexuals" we are talking about two separate things: scouts and their leaders. These are different but I think we probably need to calm down about both.
The Bible does NOT prohibit homosexuality. As James Dobson says: people don't choose homosexuality. Instead the Bible prohibits promiscuity and encourages chastity. The Bible does this for heterosexuals as well as homosexuals.
Don't confuse homosexuality with promiscuity, and don't confuse either with pedophilia. Pedophilia continues to be illegal as it always has been, and statutory rape continues to be illegal the way it always has been.
The pedophiles I am familiar with are guys like the happily married Jerry Sandusky or the pious Roman Catholic clergy. Should we ban coaches and clergy from scouting? Of course not.
The purpose of scouting is to teach discipline and reverence. It seems to me, that among those for whom the discipline of scouting might be the most useful and important, it might be for homosexuals who might need fellowship and discipline more than the average boy.
Posted By: Clyde Kahrl | February 1, 2013 10:54 PM
If the BSA really wants to encourage the boys to be "morally straight", then the worst thing they could do is to approve homosexual behavior by lifting the ban. Moreover, the Bible has stern rebukes and dire warnings for those who approve of sin or encourage others to sin, but it does (Leviticus 19:1; Isaiah 5:20; Malachi 2:17; Matthew 5:19-20; Matthew 18:6; Romans 14:22). Anyone who approves the sins of homosexuality will someday have to answer to God for it. rethinkingtheology dot com
Posted By: James Aist | February 2, 2013 5:49 PM
You forgot that many churches who dropped Scout support BECAUSE of Scout's homophobic attitude will now welcome them back - that's very true in New England. Our church has continued to support Boy Scouts despite their current repugnant policy - will be happy when we see their current policy change.
Posted By: Kazimierz Bem | February 2, 2013 9:29 PM
Boiling people's ability to become civic-engaged leaders and build inter-generational relationships to their sexual orientation is lazy and cruel.
Lazy because there are much more nuanced ways to make sure that boys are getting mentors that care about their whole selves and influence accordingly (also because as we know, we all realize that the Catholic Church has also been a unsafe for boys despite their rhetoric.)
Cruel, because, why does sexual orientation serve as a proxy for pedophilia? Surely we can do better than that! Jesus understood better than anyone that those marginalized by society needed community more than anyone. He not only encouraged others to let "them" in but actively, indeed, sought "those" out.
Posted By: Morgan | February 3, 2013 12:06 PM
The Bible also says God hates divorce and that to divorce your wife is to commit adultery (and forces her to commit adultery). Have the Scouts banned remarried and/or divorced heterosexual men from being part of the Scouts?
By the way, the Bible does NOT condemn slavery (and even condones beating them - Exodus 21:20-21) ... so I suppose owning slaves should be no bar to joining the Scouts (if we're following Biblical "morality", that is).
Posted By: James Bradshaw | February 4, 2013 1:37 AM
Clyde Kahrl made the following statements: 1) The bible does not prohibit homosexuality. 2) The bible encourages homosexuals to be 'chaste'.
I doubt very much that those two statements are true, but I will, respectfully, give Mr. Kahrl the benefit of the doubt and ask him to point me to the place or places in the bible which support his statements and I would be happy to read and study them in their contexts.
In all of my reading of the bible I am yet to come across one reference to homosexuality that is positive. Of course, Mr. Kahrl will have an explanation for this, but if one is a Christian one must be clear about what the bible actually intends to says and not what one wants it to say, or wishes that it would say.
So, Mr Kahrl, please point out those passages in the bible where the writer explicitly endorses homosexuality and tells us that the 'bed' of homosexuals is 'undefiled'.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Posted By: Steve Skeete | February 4, 2013 8:47 AM
Mr. Skeet:
Here are short answers to your two initial questions to me.
1) Biblical scholarship requires hard work and lengthy discussions inappropriate to short posted comments. That is why, when I said that the Bible does not prohibit homosexuality, I did not cite the Bible, but rather I referenced Dr. James Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family as a source of authority. I felt that if readers could not trust me, perhaps they could trust him. Please note that I am not talking about homosexual behavior, I am simply talking about the status of sexual orientation, which is the issue before the Boy Scouts. You might choose to read what Dr. Dobson has to say about it.
2) As to whether the Bible tells homosexuals to be chaste, well, the Bible does not talk about homosexuality as a status anywhere, rather it talks about homosexual acts. The bible generally calls us all to be chaste because our bodies are temples. Paul does not instruct homosexuals to be chaste any more than he tells Gentiles or Jews to be chaste, rather he tells people in general to be chaste, whether heterosexual or homosexual.
In several places in the Bible heterosexual activity is condemned in the same sentence condemning homosexual activity. Why, therefore, would someone cite that same authority to ban homosexuals, but not ban heterosexuals?
Please note that my inelegant prior post is similar to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which calls homosexuals to chastity and also directs that: "Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided." See eg. CCC 2357-2359.
You say that you cannot find one good thing said about homosexuality in the Bible and you ask me to "point out those passages in the bible where the writer explicitly endorses homosexuality." As I observe above, the Bible addresses neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality as a status anywhere, and as for endorsing various kinds of status, I find no endorsement of the status of being blond, but we allow blonds in my church. We also allow Gentiles and Gentiles are routinely condemned throughout the Bible.
But of course, this is all missing the point I was trying to make. I wrote my prior post because I think it important to remember that the purpose of Boys Scouts is to take raw boys and improve them.
Posted By: Clyde Kahrl | February 4, 2013 4:26 PM
" The behavior of homosexuals ", is the most misunderstood item about an entire segment of humanity. (I'm trying to be diplomatic. I really believe that many are content to use lies & slander to fulfill an agenda.) The only commonality amongst homosexual persons is who they have the propensity to fall in love with. From the Vatican document stating "Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided", one sees the lack of justice & a blatant dismissal of the diversity in societies around the world. Discrimination, et al; shouldn't be "avoided". It should be eliminated.
Posted By: H. (Bart) Vincelette | February 4, 2013 9:31 PM
hey clyde yes the bible does prohibit homosexuality. and no you are not born that way, where is your empirical evidence? Even if you were, you would either have to get god to help you change or remain celibate for your entire life, there is no debate here
Posted By: tom | April 19, 2013 11:08 AM
Mr. Kahrl should read his bible. The book of Leviticus 18: 22 You shal not lie with a male as with a woman: it is an abomination before God. Also he should look at the books Timothy and Romans. This discussion is not about the boys it is about adult politics I have worked with Boy Scouts all my life and I have never met a 10 - 12 boy who discussed his "sexual orientation". This fight is being imposed on the program by Radical politico's who don't care about the boys.
They want to justify themselves and force thier narrow views on everyone else.
Posted By: Sid Wilson | April 19, 2013 1:01 PM
The Catholic Church was almost destroyed by the homosexual priests because the Church became too relaxed and tried to turn homosexuals as Jesus was thought to require. Actually, Jesus said if they won't accept Jesus than leave them to their own devises. An outside survey was taken of those sueing the Church and the victims turned out to be 82% boys after puberty. That puts the priests in the homosexual category. Pedophiles are below puberty. Little boys and girls were about 3 1/2% each while priests and adult women were about 6%. The rest were priests leaving to get married. Now seminaries do psycological testing like crazy on future priests. The boy scouts had homosexual leaders going after the past puberty boys too and made the same mistake as the Church, hiding the records after removing the leaders until it was brought out by the law. The homosexuals can't hide any more because the law forces the reporting of sexual activity thus now the homosexuals have to force us to accept their activity in order to do it. Yes, they're out to get their sex and bring down the very groups that helped hide them or to convert them. Nice to get even because homosexuals are ticked at the discoveries and now are forced to get groups to give them their opportunities legally, and they will, thanks to our current politicians and the infiltration by homosexuals in our law system and stupid people who don't get what they are really after, young boys becoming men. It's about sex, not equality as 98% of homosexuals are white men and always had the vote and power of white men unlike black people and women.
Posted By: Original Anna | April 19, 2013 8:22 PM
It disturbs me that so many fellow Christians are against allowing members (boys and teens) to be allowed in the Scouts because of something that they deal with. I'm not for immoral behavior. I'm not for gay marriage. I'm not for the normalizing of homosexuality. But I am definitely not for excluding boys because they have a proclivity to attraction to members of the same sex. This is not sin, this is temptation. I struggle with homosexuality, and for both me and many others growing up with this issue, we already feel alienated and different enough. There is no exclusion in the Boy Scouts on members who are tempted by smoking, drinking, using drugs, premarital sex (with girls), etc. This issue should be treated no differently!
Posted By: Brother Snark | May 7, 2013 4:45 PM
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