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August 16, 2008

Obama on abortion

Pastor Rick Warren posed a question on abortion to Sen. Barack Obama.

Warren asks, "At what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?"

Here is some of Obama's answer:

"Whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity is above my pay grade.

"Let me speak more generally about the issue of abortion. One thing that I am absolutely convinced of is there is a moral and ethical element to this issue. ... I am pro-choice...not because I'm pro-abortion. But ultimately I do not think women make these decisions causally.

"I am for limits on late-term abortion.

"If you believe that life begins at conceptions, and you are consistent in that belief, then I can’t argue with you on that. That is a core issue of faith for you. What I can do is say are there ways to work together to reduce unwanted pregnancies.
As an example of that is, how do we provide the resources for women to keep a child? … Have we given them the options of adoption?"

This is cross-posted from CT's liveblog.

Comments

That seems to me to be a legitimate answer to the abortion question. Obama is not a theologian, nor is he a biologist. Obama is a person who tends not to say more than he believes that he can prove. If you are really pro-life, and not just anti-abortion, his closing comments should have given you something of substance to work with. If, on the other hand, you just like holding posters and having arguments, a woman can't feed her unborn child a slogan, and after you finish marching, other than drop off some used clothes at the CPC, what else are you doing to make sure that a woman has a better option than to abort a child that she has no support taking are of, and few resources to help care for and raise the child?

More abortions are done by single women than married women, and more of them are done by women who feel that their backs are against the wall. Give them better options and they might make more palatable decisions.

The taking of a human life requires a moral justification. Whether that be self-defense, defense of others, just war or some other traditional category, all humans recognize the wrongness of acting to end another human's life. This has been the traditional view since Aristotle. Many try to get around this by claiming that the pre-born child is not human. That's the same argument used by proponents of slavery, and proponents of the Holocaust. "They're not human." Genetically there is no question of the human status of the pre-born child. Any attributes of adulthood which are not possessed by the pre-born child, are attributes in common with some post-born humans. There is no principled way to distinguish them for purposes of removing the moral and legal protection that is their due by virtue of their humanity. The objective of some seems to be to separate sexual intercourse from natural responsibility for the act and to deny the instinctive responsibilities of motherhood to nurture and protect whatever the cost.

8-18-08 - POSSIBLY THIS WOMAN SHOULD THINK OF HER BACK AGAINST THE WALL, BEFORE SHE FINDS HERSELF WITH HER BACK AGAINST THE BED?

I'M SORRY. "MATURE WOMEN" WHETHER CHRISTIAN OR NOT, SHOULD THINK, BEFORE THEY TAKE ACTION. I MEAN THINK..."IF I GO THROUGH WITH THIS ACT, WITHOUT PROTECTION, I AM CREATING AN EVEN BIGGER PROBLEM FOR MYSELF. I KNOW IF I GET PREGNANT IT WILL BE EVEN MORE OF A BURDEN ON ME FINANCIALLY. BUT ALSO, IF I GO FOR AN ABORTION, THAT COULD BE REALLY EMOTIONALLY AND PHYSICALLY DAMAGINE ON MY BODY? AFTER ALL, IT’S STILL SURGERY, AND ALL SURGERY CARRIES THE POSIBILITY OF A COMPLICATION. WE READ NOW OF MANY MORE COMPLICATIONS WHETHER IT BE PHYSICAL (May not be able to get pregnant when I want to, OR EMOTIONALLY, (that it may cause the woman to carry guilt for the rest of her life), AND OR (mentally anguishing on the woman), OVER SUCH A DECISION.

OBAMA’S RESPONSE ABOUT ABORTION WAS , "that question with specificity is above my pay grade."

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU? DID IT DISCLOSE INFO ON OBAMA THAT HE MIGHT NOT HAVE WANTED TO DISCLOSE AT THIS TIME? ALSO, DID IT MEAN HE HAS NO DEEPER THOUGHTS ABOUT LIFE?

ANOTHER QUESTION ON MY MIND. IF OBAMA SAT IN THE PEWS AT TRINITY CHURCH OF CHRIST FOR OVER 20 YEARS, HAD BROTHER WRIGHT, HIS PASTOR, NEVER PREACHED AGAINST ABORTION?

TALKING ABOUT GENOCIDE. THE RECORD SHOWS THAT MORE BLACKS HAVE BEEN ABORTED, SINCE IT WAS ENACTED, THAN ANY OTHER RACE.

HAD REV. WRIGHT NEVER TAKEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO PREACH AGAINST ABORTION? HAD REV WRIGHT NEVER PREACHED TO HIS FLOCK THAT GOD WILL HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE? NOT ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE "FETUS" (as they call it).

SORRY, BUT LETS GET SERIOUS. WE ARE LIVING IN THE YEAR 2008. THERE IS ALL BUT NO REASON NOW FOR A WOMAN TO GET PREGNANT-- IF SHE CHOOSES NOT TO. THERE ARE MORE BIRTH CONTROL METHODS “NOW” THAN ANYTIME IN HISTORY. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO TAKE A PILL EVERY DAY, GO TO YOUR FAMILY DOCTOR AND GET A SHOT IN YOUR ARM INSTEAD. IT IS CALLED… DEPO-PROVERA. IT IS A LONG TIME BIRTH CONTROL METHOD WITH MANY LESS SIDE EFFECTS. .

AS FOR OBAMA’S RESPONSE WHEN ASKED BY REV RICK WARREN, HIS ANSWER WAS A REALLY LOW ATTEMPT TO RID HIMSELF OF HAVING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. WHAT ABOUT A MURDERER STANDING UP AND SAYING SORRY, I KILLED THE PERSON, BUT DON’T ASK ME IF IT WAS WRONG BECAUSE THAT IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO DO ALL THE WOMEN OBAMA KNOWS SAYS, “OH, WAIT. I CAN ALWAYS GET AN ABORTION (while I am giving so much thought to this casual relationship or action!) AS OBAMA STATED IN HIS RESPONSE RELATING TO ABORTION.

RIGHT?


Posted by: Donna Graham | August 19, 2008 10:06 PM


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Comments: (you may use HTML tags for style) 8-18-08 - POSSIBLY THIS WOMAN SHOULD THINK OF HER BACK AGAINST THE WALL, BEFORE SHE FINDS HERSELF WITH HER BACK AGAINST THE BED?

I'M SORRY. "MATURE WOMEN" WHETHER CHRISTIAN OR NOT, SHOULD THINK, BEFORE THEY TAKE ACTION. I MEAN THINK..."IF I GO THROUGH WITH THIS ACT, WITHOUT PROTECTION, I AM CREATING AN EVEN BIGGER PROBLEM FOR MYSELF. I KNOW IF I GET PREGNANT IT WILL BE EVEN MORE OF A BURDEN ON ME FINANCIALLY. BUT ALSO, IF I GO FOR AN ABORTION, THAT COULD BE REALLY EMOTIONALLY AND PHYSICALLY DAMAGINE ON MY BODY? AFTER ALL, IT’S STILL SURGERY, AND ALL SURGERY CARRIES THE POSIBILITY OF A COMPLICATION. WE READ NOW OF MANY MORE COMPLICATIONS WHETHER IT BE PHYSICAL (May not be able to get pregnant when I want to, OR EMOTIONALLY, (that it may cause the woman to carry guilt for the rest of her life), AND OR (mentally anguishing on the woman), OVER SUCH A DECISION.

OBAMA’S RESPONSE ABOUT ABORTION WAS , "that question with specificity is above my pay grade."

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU? DID IT DISCLOSE INFO ON OBAMA THAT HE MIGHT NOT HAVE WANTED TO DISCLOSE AT THIS TIME? ALSO, DID IT MEAN HE HAS NO DEEPER THOUGHTS ABOUT LIFE?

ANOTHER QUESTION ON MY MIND. IF OBAMA SAT IN THE PEWS AT TRINITY CHURCH OF CHRIST FOR OVER 20 YEARS, HAD BROTHER WRIGHT, HIS PASTOR, NEVER PREACHED AGAINST ABORTION?

TALKING ABOUT GENOCIDE. THE RECORD SHOWS THAT MORE BLACKS HAVE BEEN ABORTED, SINCE IT WAS ENACTED, THAN ANY OTHER RACE.

HAD REV. WRIGHT NEVER TAKEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO PREACH AGAINST ABORTION? HAD REV WRIGHT NEVER PREACHED TO HIS FLOCK THAT GOD WILL HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE? NOT ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE "FETUS" (as they call it).

SORRY, BUT LETS GET SERIOUS. WE ARE LIVING IN THE YEAR 2008. THERE IS ALL BUT NO REASON NOW FOR A WOMAN TO GET PREGNANT-- IF SHE CHOOSES NOT TO. THERE ARE MORE BIRTH CONTROL METHODS “NOW” THAN ANYTIME IN HISTORY. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO TAKE A PILL EVERY DAY, GO TO YOUR FAMILY DOCTOR AND GET A SHOT IN YOUR ARM INSTEAD. IT IS CALLED… DEPO-PROVERA. IT IS A LONG TIME BIRTH CONTROL METHOD WITH MANY LESS SIDE EFFECTS. .

AS FOR OBAMA’S RESPONSE WHEN ASKED BY REV RICK WARREN, HIS ANSWER WAS A REALLY LOW ATTEMPT TO RID HIMSELF OF HAVING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. WHAT ABOUT A MURDERER STANDING UP AND SAYING SORRY, I KILLED THE PERSON, BUT DON’T ASK ME IF IT WAS WRONG BECAUSE THAT IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO DO ALL THE WOMEN OBAMA KNOWS SAYS, “OH, WAIT. I CAN ALWAYS GET AN ABORTION (while I am giving so much thought to this casual relationship or action!) AS OBAMA STATED IN HIS RESPONSE RELATING TO ABORTION.

RIGHT?


Comments (2)
Delwyn X. Campbell:
That seems to me to be a legitimate answer to the abortion question. Obama is not a theologian, nor is he a biologist. Obama is a person who tends not to say more than he believes that he can prove. If you are really pro-life, and not just anti-abortion, his closing comments should have given you something of substance to work with. If, on the other hand, you just like holding posters and having arguments, a woman can't feed her unborn child a slogan, and after you finish marching, other than drop off some used clothes at the CPC, what else are you doing to make sure that a woman has a better option than to abort a child that she has no support taking are of, and few resources to help care for and raise the child?

More abortions are done by single women than married women, and more of them are done by women who feel that their backs are against the wall. Give them better options and they might make more palatable decisions.

Posted by: Delwyn X. Campbell | August 18, 2008 4:13 PM

Posted on: August 18, 2008 16:13

Kevin Moore:
The taking of a human life requires a moral justification. Whether that be self-defense, defense of others, just war or some other traditional category, all humans recognize the wrongness of acting to end another human's life. This has been the traditional view since Aristotle. Many try to get around this by claiming that the pre-born child is not human. That's the same argument used by proponents of slavery, and proponents of the Holocaust. "They're not human." Genetically there is no question of the human status of the pre-born child. Any attributes of adulthood which are not possessed by the pre-born child, are attributes in common with some post-born humans. There is no principled way to distinguish them for purposes of removing the moral and legal protection that is their due by virtue of their humanity. The objective of some seems to be to separate sexual intercourse from natural responsibility for the act and to deny the instinctive responsibilities of motherhood to nurture and protect whatever the cost.

Posted by: Kevin Moore | August 19, 2008 7:37 PM

Posted on: August 19, 2008 19:37

This debate will sadly continue, until humans agree that a baby or a fetus, or whatever, is a human being.There is no agrument against that. It is not anything else. Whatever the excuse, it is wrong.
The act of abortion, should be separated from the word abortion...and when those facts are 'out there' ..no one truly understands what it is. It is indeed a surgical procedure..and it is indeed the killing of a human life. I am disgusted that politicians cannot comprehend the difference. Allowing minors to have abortions, without parental consent...a surgical procedure..is way over my head. If your child was going through a tonsil surgery or whatever...you would be wanting to be notified!
If those who believe that abortion is ok..would only look at the development of the fetus...they would know, that this 'thing' develops waaaay before the woman even misses her first period.
This 'thing' feels pain, has a heart beat, brain waves.
Obama even approve of partial birth abortions...do you even know what is involved? It means just what it says...'partial' means, that the 'thing' is not entirely there. It has to be put back together for proof! Like a puzzle.
obama, is also, for not caring for medical care of the suviorviors of partial birth abortions.
Bottom line? YOU need to be there. Before you decide.
It is not reversible..
There is NO excuse..in the end..this 'thing'...will and should require a funeral service also.
If we allow this to continue...what is the expectation of elderly, mentally handicapped, etc. YOU cannot stop this once it is on its course.
Please think about what you do when you vote. It may well affect you.
Thank you for listening.
love and prayers to you all.

I am a Christian and believePro-Choice. The choice is having sex or remaining abstinent. Period with periods.

The surface responses to the act of abortion is all we hear anymore. People are afraid to come out and say no. Not as poster hanging radicals. The deeper issues here are why do people feel the need to go against that which is already the heart and desires of God that you would remain pure until you devote your life to someone for life? God's word tells us that is always best and therefore you never have to enter into this area and therefore won't have to deal with the repercussions. I've walked thru it as someone who made his girlfriend at the time get an abortion because it was out of fear. It hit me later and wrecked me as a male and the girl was destroyed by it. The best choice is to follow David's line in the Psalms. "How can a man (or anyone) keep their way pure? By living according to Your Word.

What I am going to speak about here shortly is how to avoid the harlot but before I go there I want to let you know about the new agenda this new government leadership is trying to usher into this nation. I have a close doctor friend of mine that informed me about some new legislation on the books that if it passes is going to make all private institutions that practice medicine like Presbyterian hospitals, and Methodist hospitals have to perform abortions. They no longer will have the choice. If they do not perform these abortions they can be shut down by the government. Another thing this doctor pointed out to me is that all OBGYN doctors, regardless of their spiritual beliefs who practice in this country, will be required to perform abortions if they want to continue to practice medicine in this nation. There is also new legislation being promoted that will make the practice of circumcision of your baby boys after birth against the law claiming it as cruel and in humane. Now let me ask you this dear brothers and sisters. If you where a plasticizing OBGYN in this country and you are forced to make the decision to perform abortions to earn a paycheck even though you felt in your heart it was murder what on earth would you do. The bible is very clear that murderers will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Did you also no that this wicked leadership in this nation is now trying to promote and pass legislation that will eliminate our 1st amendment rights. That will make it against the law to go to church and worship God the way we want or choose. I wish I was making this up. It is time for those that have been chosen to stand up and sound the alarm. Woe to those who try to be politically correct in the days ahead because can I tell you dear brothers and sisters that friendship with the world makes you an enemy of God, and when you will not take a stand and expose the sin and corruption in peoples lives it says you are a friend of the world. I don’t know about you, but being a enemy of God today and in the near future with what is about to come against the world and this nation is nothing I want any part of.
Obama supports all forms of abortions, including unrestricted partial birth and late-term.

In Illinois, he rejected a bill that would have required doctors to save babies who survived late-term abortions. It is his opinion doctors should be allowed to let the babies die without any medical intervention, even if they can be saved.
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That's the same argument used by proponents of slavery, and proponents of the Holocaust. "They're not human." Genetically there is no question of the human status of the pre-born child. Any attributes of adulthood which are not possessed by the pre-born child, are attributes in common with some post-born humans.