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September 10, 2008

Obama's white evangelicals

Today's Fox poll has McCain leading Obama among white evangelicals by 61 percent to 25 percent. Bush beat Kerry among white evangelicals by 77 percent to 23 percent. So in spite of Sarah Palin's selection, Obama remains ahead of Kerry's pace in this demographic. Should he win his share of the undecideds, he'd reach 29 percent--not as good as Bill Clinton but a significant pickup nonetheless.

(Originally posted at Spiritual Politics)


The presidential 'race' used to pit Democrats versus Republicans - now, the focus has shifted to religious identity! Ot, am I being naive? It's been that way all along?

I am absolutely appalled that Obama would get one single evangelical vote. He clearly, openly, and unreservedly favors protecting the legality of abortion, rather than human life, and is publicly committed to nominating Supreme Court justices that would do this. Thus, his supporters must know that they are a party to the ongoing murder of innocent human beings, done deliberately and as a matter of claimed right. What other consideration could any Christian think that would supposedly justify a vote for Obama as something more morally compelling than supporting abortion?

Neither for these only do I pray, but for them also that believe on me through their word; that they may all be one; even as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that you did send me. And the glory which you have given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one; I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you did send me, and loved them, even as you loved me. Jn. 17:20-23

There is a great article on culture-voice.com why Palin will do nothing to end abortions. Our only option is to look at what we can do to reduce them. Please Christians, don't make the same mistake you've made the last two elections. Don't vote to "end abortion" when that is an impossibility and give the neo-cons a blank check to kill more children the world over, with their wars, economic policies and ignorance about health care, education and climate change. Obama's platform is the one that cares most comprehensively for the "least of these" and according to Jesus, that's all that matters (Matthew 25).

Lisa, history teacher

I hate abortion.

I also hate the fact that tonight 670,000 people will be homeless tonight. Half of them will be women and children. I also hate the fact that half of the abortions that will be performed this year will be from women below the poverty level. They will choose abortion because if they do not they will not be able to afford to take care of the child. They will have to drop out of college or high school, they will more than likely loose their jobs and will more than likely marry a person they dont love to care for the child. Its a no win situation. GOP would have an end to abortion but will not address the reasons why people have them in the first place. They will teach abstinence which is only marginally success full. They Will appose healthcare reform which would allow mothers to have affordable heatlhcare. Healthcare as well that could provide effective contraception. And they will do absolutely nothing to address Poverty. I have said it on these forums before. THE WORD POVERTY IS NOT EVEN MENTIONED ON MCCAINS ISSUES PAGE Because he does not even care about the 34 million people in our country that are in poverty.

Its a shame to say to a person that we wont allow you to have an abortion and no we are not going to do anything to help you... Besides honey you should have known that sex is a dangerous thing....


If you check your facts rather than your feelings you will find out that the USA ranks 37th in the World Health Organizations rankings of health care systems. In between Costa Rica and Slovenia. That's not something to be proud of. I can't speak to your in laws experience but I'm originally from the UK and the fact is that you don't wait for life saving ops in the UK or most other Westernized nations with social health care. Check the life expectancy rates if you don't believe me. You may very well wait for such ops as hip and knee replacement surgery but that's a small cost for the fact that everybody has access to the same treatment as opposed to the US where 45 million or so have no health coverage at all and the rest of us pretty much rely on our jobs to provide those benefits. A factor that is an even greater problem when somebody loses a job in a family. It's pretty much a myth that you don't wait in the US to see a doctor anyway. Personally I'm glad that my parents who are both senior citizens in the UK don't have to decide between affording their prescription drugs or their food. They both have access to good primary care even though they live in a very rural area. Not something that my parents-in-law here in the US can say. Furthermore if you think that all advanced medical procedures and drugs are pioneered here in the US you're mistaken. The global scientific community doesn't operate that way...thank goodness. Many many procedures have been pioneered and shared right across the globe. Think of heart transplants (South Africa) or kidney transplants (France, UK and USA) ultrasound (UK) or hip and knee replacements (UK) or MRI (Nobel prize shared between the US and UK). Thankfully in some fields we cooperate with one another rather than compete for national pride.

What bothers me is some people who claim to be christians and broad casters or just common folks like me demonizing Democratic candidates. Charater assination, or distortion of facts doesnot honor God but it makes us christians mindless or lack critical thinking to discern facts from fictions. We can't afford to do that if we want to remain salt and light as our Lord commanded us. I'm republican and I have voted for Republican party with some exceptions - and we had Repblican presidents and the control of the congress for long time - but the issues that we idnetify with such as elimiating abortion - unless it's a threat to a mother's health, remains unchanged and choice to select our health care provider- but the health care is getting out reach for Repblican and Democrat alike and sicknes and poverty doesn't discriminate on the basis of one's plitical party affliation.
I think we should pray and participate to elect the best leaders who are willing to sourround themselve with best qulifed peple.
We all know from our expirences and observations - leaders who work best with others get the job done more effectively, they inspire and makes fell proud to be Americans, like Kennday and Regan in recent history. And whe we look at those who were great leadrs they were not all with great expirences -but they had good jugement and the ablity to think ahead.
We also need to look for leadrs who love all americans, leaders who are really concerned for our stand in the wolrd stage both in ecnomic front, education and moral influnce. We can't beat the all those who disagree with us into submission. Our Lord told teaches us the power of love is more effective than weapons of massdistractions - weapond and fighting have thier places, when our freedom is threatned.
Let's be sober and think logically and pray to seek God's wisdom before we speak evil or act in a manner that is not worthy for christians or for a nation as powwerful as we are.
Howevr, there is only one power that is endless, now and for ever and to that power I bow my knees with total adoratin - Jesus Christ my Lord and savior even as I pray for my adpoted and belove country -USA.

What bothers me is why the people who make good choices are always the ones who have to compensate for the half-wits who continue to make bad choices. Sometimes people need to suffer the consequences of their bad choices if they're to learn anything from them. If the government continues to bail people out of their self created troubles what incentive do they have to help themselves--none. As I've stated before concerning the Matthew 25:31-46 these scriptures are directed toward believers not the State like Lisa takes out of context seven posts previous. Liberals try to use this scripture to argue that Jesus is stating that it's the goverments job--He is not!!
If you want more money taken from your pocket,more government in your business, less protection for your family, someone who will appoint liberal leftwing law making judges and all mention of God erased from the public square--you'll want the new messiah--Obama not the "old" one.

It is so distressing that the overwhelming majority of US Christians are prepared to go along with the Babylonian Democrat-Republican warmaking machinery and the appalling catastrophic tragedies that are Iraq and Palestine. The Afghan war is also a miry mess which has promoted the flow of heroin to Europe. Thousands of Americans too have had their lives destroyed because of the oilistic Bush-Cheney Neocon/anti-Christian counterfeit-Israel cabal and the control of the mainstream media by the same anti-Christian forces. The Republican camp politicians are fake conservatives. America is hated internationally. McCain/Obama will not stop this.

Obama isn't comfortable with who he is. He denies he has any white background and he never ever mentions his Arabic heritage.He refuses to Pledge to the American flag (our country's flag)nor will he say the National Anthem.I would think most people would find this to be more than odd, it is disrespectful to all Americans. Most important is Obama believes in abortion and gay marriage-period.There's no such thing as sometimes or in some cases. You either do or you don't. He is going against God's word and God's will. How is it that any Christian can vote for Obama? McCain is against abortion and gay marrige and from what I see,he knows who he is. Sarah Palin also is not ashamed of her faith and what she believes. We need someone like her to be V.P If she is elected I believe she will stand firm in what she believes and in turn she will do the will of God. This is what our country needs ,leaders who know who they answer to."In God We Trust"!

* just want to add or make something more clear...When Obama was asked by Rick Warren "When does life begin". Obama responded that this question is "above his pay grade". When McCain was asked this same question he anwered,"Life begins at the moment of conception". This is the difference. Obama is pro choice McCain is not.

we call the 320 million a year the government provides for abortion to be available to women who don't want to raise a child, and can't afford her own family un-planning, safe sex? we won't provide for the women with children that are homeless that was mentioned in a prior post, yet with the african american speaker I heard recently the biggest problems that the country face are from sexual immorality, aids, abortion, welfare. we don't want to get back to the basics on fornication and it's consequences so we continue to value the people in goverment that protect abortion rights for this, this woman said that one out of every two black pregnancies went to abortion..I find teen pregnancy difficult to understand, but I am not a teen in hard love with a school jock, and facing my own identity issues because my parents don't teach me the crisis that will become my life with child and no husband or job, we need to be able parents by education of ourselves prior to having a child, we want two different identities one for us and one for others like us..


Words are cheap, even words like "In God we trust". look no further than Mr. Bush. All politicians know that they have to say the right things to get a vote. All of the things that you have brought up about Obama have been proven to be nothing more than right wing GOP propaganda by independent fact checking organizations.

So far as how a Christian can vote for Obama its a matter of priority. You may question my faith, which I am used to... But for me I am more concerned with 34 million people in poverty in our country than any other issue. There was a very strong mandate from Jesus to take care of them. Slider who posts on here often attempts to say that charge to care for the needy was to Christians only and not to government leaders. However as I have said, in the old testament God gave Moses several commands as to how the laws of the nation of Israel should care for the needy and foreigners in their country. The laws given in the old testament were the basis of many of the laws we find in our government. Why change the context of these verses for selfish reasons?

By no means am I trying to get you to vote for Obama or to re-adjust your priorities but to maybe encourage you to think a little more objectively about this.

ben Rodda

Lots of comments since I posted about Palin and abortion. It seems from the comments that Christians are as divided as the country on who to vote for.
First, over turning Roe v. Wade does NOT make abortion illegal there are only a handful of states where it will be and those who truly want to end their pregnancy will be able to do so. Again, great article that lays this out on culture-voice.com
Second, I am not misinterpreting Matthew 25 when I say Obama is more in line in caring for the least of these. As long as 30% of my money goes to this government I am required to do everything in my power to push them towards policies that do the most good for the most people. This is also in line with the Founding Father's beliefs laid out in the Preamble of the Constitution.
Third, Obama admitting that he's not sure when life begins is honest and accurate. We don't know, it is a matter of faith. We have a few verses that point to the womb, not WHEN in the womb.
Lastly, I have drank the Koolaid, I admit it freely, I have lived my entire life (nearly 40 years) never believing I might see an authentic, intelligent leader and statesman in the highest office because the political machine and big money were too powerful. We (the two million who have funded Obama's campaign) have changed the rules of the game and picked a nominee that should have been done before Super Tuesday. I want to believe my government can be an instrument of good, I don't think it is and hasn't been for a long time. I want to see that change.

So fire away GOP Christians, but for the first time in my life I see my students excited about THEIR government and taking ownership of our democracy, I see my Republican husband and mother voting for Obama and I see minorities and the poor registering to vote because they believe that they just might have someone in the White House who can help them have hope in tomorrow. 100's of thousands of young soldiers will be coming home mentally, physically and spiritually broken and Obama, ironically is the one who has voted YES for the GI Bill and to fix Walter Reed. The GOP had 14 years controlling Congress, six of which the had the White House as well. Nothing would change with McCain/Palin in the White House, in fact it may just get worse.

Lisa, you're my hero.

I'm also deeply concerned about the 34 million in poverty in this country--including the 23-year-old woman, 12-year-old boy and 3-year-old boy who live with me in my one-bedroom apartment! (Right-wing evangelicals, I would love to see you putting your money where your mouth is more often if you really believe individuals should be solving poverty all by themselves...)

But I am just as concerned with the TWO BILLION people in this world who live on less than $2 a day, some of them friends of mine in South Africa. They can't afford four more years of these failed policies.

I am sick of the lies and distortions told by people who carry the name of Christ. Obama is denying his white ancestry? Have you not heard him talk about his white mother and grandparents? Did you not hear his speech on race? He is denying his Arabic ancestry? Perhaps that's because he doesn't have any. Yes, he spent some time being educated in Indonesia. Yes, it was a madrasa--that is the Arabic word for school, it suggests no ideology. It would literally be like if you heard someone say in sinister tones, "I heard he went to a SCHOOL!" Mudaresa is teacher, Adrus is "I study," "yudaris" is "he teaches," etc--please take it from one who is conversational in Arabic, a madrasa is not a sinister thing, and Obama is not an Arab. Which is not synonymous with Muslim, by the way.

I'd like to gently remind all of us, as we approach this election, that there is nothing scriptural about an "America first" attitude. I could care less if Obama says the pledge or not; I don't, because my allegiance is to Christ and His church, and to no other temporal authority or kingdom. Let's remember where our true allegiances lie. We are not called to freedom, security and the American way. We are called to love.

My heart breaks at what is happening in this country. Hurricanes one right after the other, sexual perversion, financial crises, gas hikes, and DIVISION in every area imaginable (race, faith, politics, etc)! It's no wonder NOTHING is getting accomplished in the SPIRITUAL atmosphere! God is not only displeased with America as a whole, but especially with His Christian children. We have become the judge and jury for God! We say we are all about representing moral values and what's right; but more and more Christians (famous and unfamous) are COMING OUT OF THE CLOSET like wild fire and depending on who it is, it is tolerable!! The sin of abortion is unacceptable, but the little sins are ok, depending on who's doing it. I'm constantly hearing who is fit or unfit to preach, teach or even run this country (democrats/republicans). A people and country that GOD created! I have been not only disappointed, but literally HURT by the expressions of CHRISTIANS concerning their views on all the candidates, but especially Obama and Palin! It is very sad! There's no love and respect from anywhere within the Christian community. What is happening here?! Can we no longer spiritually discern that Satan is making every attempt to divide the House of God and distrupt our purpose upon this earth! I thought that God was in control of EVERYTHING, including whoever is elected!! Can God not change evil into good?! If I recalled, God changed many HEARTS in the bible from STONE to FLESH! A major example was the Apostle Paul!! Is it IMPOSSIBLE that if Obama is elected, that God can do the same with him since he is the one Christians seem so terrfied over!! As if we undoubtedly know what EITHER OF THEM will do once elected! All of them are doing what Politicans do and that is "telling you what you want to hear." My prayer for ALL OF THEM is that God will change their hearts to align with His; just as He does with me DAILY!! My heart is grieved over what I'm hearing on these CHRISTIAN websites, tv and radio programs! I use to love WAVA and other stations, but I have to take a break!! It's just to much! I can't began to comprehend what God must be thinking of us!! I pray it's not, "GET AWAY FROM ME, I NEVER KNEW YOU"!! The division of this nation hurts, but especially within the Christian community. We are to be a part of the solution, not adding fuel to the fire and using scripture when convenient. God is so amazing! It's almost as if I can hear him saying now, "YOU ALLLLLL...ARE WRONG"!! Thank God He is so merciful and kind. Grace upon grace each day!! I'm so glad God isn't LIKE US!!!