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September 4, 2008

Palin pushes Dobson over the edge

Alaska Governor Sarah Palin has Focus on the Family founder James Dobson on her side.

"A genuine reformer. A deeply committed Christian," are Dobson's words.

On a Focus Action radio broadcast, Dobson said Palin has helped change his mind on McCain.

"If I went into the polling booth today, I would pull the lever for John McCain," he said.

Gary Bauer, Tony Perkins, Kelly Shackelford, and Tom Minnery also expressed unanimous support for McCain and Palin.

"I don't remember this kind of electric moment since I went to the inauguration of Ronald Reagan," Dobson said.

This is seven months after he said he would not vote for John McCain.

Comments

Was there really a doubt that he would vote for McCain? Really?

I agree Adam, but now he may be smiling when he does it.

I'm heartbroken Dr. Dobson seems to have forgotton his own words:

"A life in keeping with God’s design and instruction brings the greatest possible fulfillment, while any deviation from His design invites disaster, This is why the Bible warns against all harmful forms of sexual behavior, including premarital sex, adultery, prostitution, incest, bestiality and pedophilia.” (Marriage under fire).

Has money changed hands over this endorsement? Does he not truly believe what he teaches? I never would have questioned these things a week ago.

Mrs. Palin might be a good politician, but how can anyone believe she is a good Christian?

I doubt any money has changed. However McCain needs Dobson as much as Dobson needs McCain for publicity reasons. I doubt that Dobson realizes what he is doing. He more than likely fully believes that what he is doing is right.

On another note.
Palins tone, disrespect, sarcasm, and stretching of truth was anything but spirit led.

benrodda@hotmail.com

Tone, disrespect, and sarcasm, stretching of the truth?

Mr Rodda,

Oh,I forgot that there is no sarcasm in the Bible at all.....
I am also sure that when Jesus went into the temple he had a sweet tone in his voice.....
Why is it that we Christians are supposed to "play nice" all the time?
Is there not a season to all things?

I'm amazed that people are speaking against Palin's suitability for the VP position on the basis of her motherhood. Many men in office, and especially in ministry, treat their families like mere accessories, but no one has yet proven that Palin does this. While I have no doubt that Palin is quite capable of being VP, Dobson's new position is laughable considering his broadcasts against women with children working outside the home.

And sarcasm is a very good tool for a Christian to use wisely. One could go back to the Prophets for great examples, but why not just reread Paul's letters or, as has been pointed out, just look to Jesus?

What is truly amazing is that anyone is surprised that Dobson is yet again more interested in maintaining a spot on the Wednesday conference calls than on any of those other ideas like peace or helping those who are hungry, etc.

The latin root for sar means flesh, chasm means to tear.

Flesh tearing.... Hmmm?

And no I don't think he had the sweet tone and smirk on his face that Mrs Palin had last night. Nor do I think that his disciples had the smirks the rest of the GOP had on their faces.

And yes she said thanks... to the bridge to nowhere. She spent the money on other projects, Then said no thanks when there was not enough money to build the bridge.

And no Paul nor Jesus ever put someone down to make them selves look good or better than the other.

Obviously, you are a political hack or are unable to have a logical discourse of true biblical thought. You keep playing the political card as if the party is the prism through which you view christianity (a small c for you, brother). I believe that you have been led astray......either by choice or by ignorance. We are supposed to rightly divide....between right and wrong.....and I supposed you are the person to do that because you are far from reproach and are always right in every decision?

Jesus made people think...he didn't care about their ego or making them look bad....they did it themselves!

Who cares what these "leaders" think anyhow? They don't speak for all of Christendom.

So now we go to personal attacks....

Questioning my faith in Jesus and my relationship with him... Look who is judging now?

And then contradictions? We are supposed to rightly divide right and wrong, but then I am not allowed to because my interpretation of Jesus is not yours?

It matters what "leaders" think/believe. It affects how we live, how we are governed, and how we can minister to others. There will NEVER be a perfect person for office.....we are all fallen/sinful people. But people in authority are held to a higher standard. This is set forth as to the guidelines to choosing church leaders.

"Many men in office, and especially in ministry, treat their families like mere accessories, but no one has yet proven that Palin does this"

Was it then, simply a miracle, Bristol Palin's engagement was announced right before her mother's speech? Or that her daughter's private affairs were announced to the public at all?

We as Christians have to admit Bristol's pregnancy strikes a chord with us. But I feel manipulated.

Jesus is not open to intrepretation! Sorry! He sets forth His guidelines/commands/way. We can not put our own spin on it! What does the scripture say? The "religious authorities" of Jesus day had thier own interpretation as well! And they were still wrong! By your fruits....brother. I am not attacking you, I am challenging what you believe.....is that not right?

It is interesting that we have Mr. Dobson endorsing the McCain/Palin ticket. With "family values" being the spewed rhetoric of the right, we have McCain -- an adulterer and divorced husband, and Palin -- who says abstinence ONLY education, even-though-it-doesn't-work-in-my-home.

At least with the Obama/Biden ticket we have no divorces/open adultery situations. Those, to me, really are "family values".

Allelujah! Praise the Lord! I was all by myself in the family room as she gave her acceptance speech as new vice presidential candidate, and said she would be an advocate for the special needs children! Oh sweet Jesus, Praise the Lord! Thank You Jesus! Thank You, Lord, oh Thank You Jesus, Thank You Jesus!!!!!! And Praise the Lord!!!!!!! Oh, and by the way, did I say, Praise the Lord? Yes! Yes! Yes!!!!!! We here in North Carolina say, Thank You Jesus, Thank You Jesus, Praise the Lord!!!! Amen and Amen!

What does Obama/Biden say about abortion? A right to choose or a life?

People still make thier own decisions and have to live with the consequences. I can not impose my will on my daughter. She still has to make a choice....good,bad, or otherwise! She is ultimately accountable. I can only do what I can do. It is called personal responsibility.

Now, Elaine, THAT was sarcasm... too much, actually! :-) I echo Carol's comment. Why are so many people more concerned with solidifying some political agenda, instead of following Christ, no matter what political system is in place?

Let's see. Jesus said to the Pharisees, "You brood of vipers." Do you think he did so with a smile? And when Jesus cleared the temple, do you think he said, "exuse me." I'm certainly not for tearing people down. Certainly slander is inappropriate. But if people hold a position that is not appropriate I'm going to make a contrast and point out the flaws and I'm going to do so with a bit of humor and if necessary sarcasm. Read the prophets. They used sarcasm ALL the time.

As far as you "self-righteous" people that think Palin doesn't deserve the VP because of her daughter, remember that God appointed David king of Israel despite all his flaws, and Abraham the father of us all even though he tried to short change it by having sex with Sarah's servant.

I was disturbed to read Mrs. Palin cut $ on housing and career training programs for unwed teen mothers in Alaska. What if her policy decision creates more murdered babies? I pray she shows more mercy from now on.

If Mr. McCain is offering her up to us as a Christian, to make up for his own spiritual shortcomings (and to appeal to us as a voter block), aren't we allowed to study her life to see if she is indeed a Christian, in deeds as well as words?

It's discouraging but not surprising Dobson would like Palin, and it would influence him toward stronger support of McCain. Others have noted some of the reasons... and they are not noble. For some deeper insight into Dobson's sytle of leadership and management relative to his own ego and power drive, check out the book by Gil Moegerle, a long-time associate and radio host with Dobson: "James Dobson's War on America." Along with enlightening about Dobson, it shows how Moegerle took care to get the help of Evangelical leaders in fair, helpful confrontation, and was unable to enlist it.

Gov Sarah Palin is a Christian make no doubt about it, and a commited one at that. Not to vote for McCain. Dr. Dobson's non vote would be a vote for obama and therefore a vote for Abortion for which he is opposed. No God fearing committed Christian could honestly vote for Obama because he will be as guilty of supporting abortion by association and God will hold he or she accountable for that vote on Judgement Day. Many black christians will still vote for Obama simply to support race but that is not reason to vote for a any persons who condone shedding the blood of the innocent. As for me and the 5 adults in our home we will vote for righteousness in the preservation of life with McCain/ Palin so that the blood of the inncocent will not be required at our hands. Ernie French

I'm already tired of this discussion. Bone weary in fact. Nobody, NOBODY, knows what kind of a VP Sarah will make!!

As for me--also a middle-aged, well-educated Christian female involved in teaching, leadership and parenting--on the one hand I'm THRILLED to have a potential VP who is a woman and a self-acclaimed Christian! Wow, talk about progressive--a truly historic event to witness! (And I'm not being sarcastic, friends. >smile

On the other hand, though, I only have two children (whom I stayed at home full time with until they went to school, and then I worked only part time.) I canNOT imagine being a good parent to and for my daughters if I worked in a high-demand job. And that's with only two children.

And that's my 'two-cents worth'. No easy answers, are there!?!

Sometimes I get the impression that politicians have the idea in their heads that what they say and legislate applies to the others (average people) but not to them.Case in point Al Gore's book which was at odds with his personal vehicles being gas guzzling SUVs.

In Sarah Palin we have a person who thinks like we would want to have a leader think. Her actions and words are the same.

When she put the governor's jet on EBay that shows respect for the spending of people's hard earned tax dollars. When she rid the state of the cost of a limo and its driver because she was fully able to drive herself to work that showed she recognized that the dollrs spent on such self serving waste comes from people who have trouble getting braces for their kid's teeth.

These are just two isolated instances of concern for how my money is spent. I expect it will extend to extravant waste in Washington and throughout the country. I hope so.

Her approval rating in Alaska is 80% I have read. Yes she is relativaly new to the political scene but she has done well because she appears to be very bright. Cream does have a way of rising to the top.

I look forward to voting for this competent, decent woman and John McCain.

FIRST SOUTHERN BAPTIST CHURCH

OF BUENA PARK

DR. WILEY S. DRAKE, PASTOR

6801 Western Avenue, Buena Park, CA 90621

Phone: (714) 522-7201 Fax: (714) 522-7202


2nd Vice President 2006/2007


SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION

After being a Republican for more than 40 years I resigned my elected position as a member of the Central Committee of The Republican Party of Orange County California. Shortly thereafter I re-registered as an Independent.

At that time I made three statements as follows..........

1. I will vote in November 2008.

2. I will not vote for Obama.

3. I will not vote for John McCain.

I appreciate the guts and goals of Mrs. Sarah Palin but her addition to the party does nothing to change my mind.

Rather than spend a lot of time trying to explain my position I will list below for you some Godly men and their reasons I will not change my mind.

Perhaps if I were more spiritually mature and more prolific in words I would have said this myself.

Steve Curtis and my brother Otwell have done an excellent job and I hope they allow me this opportunity to let them say what is in my heart.

Pastor Wiley Drake


American RTL Action Rebukes Dobson for Breaking his Pledge before God
Contact: American RTL Action, 888-888-ARTL (2785), office@ARTLaction.com

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo., Sept. 3 /Christian Newswire/ -- American RTL Action, the political 527 group, is exposing Focus on the Family's Dr. James Dobson for violating his pledge in which he invoked the name of God by declaring that he is voting for John McCain. ARTL members will protest Dr. Dobson at his headquarters at 8655 Explorer Drive in Colorado Springs on Thur. Sept. 4, beginning at 7:45 a.m.

On April 28, 1990 at the Washington D.C. Rally for Life Dr. Dobson stated, "I want to give a pledge to you on a political level... I have determined that for the rest of my life, however long God lets me live on this earth, I will never cast one vote for any man or woman who would kill one innocent baby." (See video at ARTLaction.com.) James Dobson is violating this pledge by voting for John McCain for president, a Republican who has recently voted to authorize funding to kill some children by surgical abortion.

"Dr. Dobson repeated his broken pledge on his radio program in March of 1995 saying, "I am committed never again to cast a vote for a politician who would kill one innocent baby," referring to the rape and incest 'exceptions,' "which are a window to the soul of a 'pro-life' candidate," said ARTL Action president Steve Curtis.

"John McCain funds the killing of countless children," said the group's director of research, Darrell Birkey, "for example by voting to allocate monies on Oct. 27, 2005 for tax-funded surgical abortion if the baby's father is a criminal, that is, a rapist." The official Senate.gov website documents McCain's Yea vote on the Health and Human Services Appropriations Public Law 109–149 and the Government Printing Office indicates that McCain's vote authorized funding for abortion to kill an unborn child whose father is a criminal. As the law states, SEC. 507. (a) "funds are appropriated in this Act" that includes coverage of abortion, SEC. 508. (a) (1) "if the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest."

"Dr. Dobson is openly violating the pledge he took before God," said Birkey, "by voting for John McCain. Both the Sarah Palin distraction, and the candidate's rhetoric to Rick Warren claiming he believes that human rights begin at conception, are belied by McCain's long tolerance of chemical abortifacients and funding the dissection of the tiniest embryonic boys and girls."

"In violating his pledge before God, Dr. Dobson has lost the moral authority to speak for Christians," said Curtis. "He can speak for Republicans who do not fear God, but he cannot speak for the Body of Christ."

Last week ARTL Action unfurled the massive Sheets Of Shame abortion protest sign on a mountain overlooking the DNC in Denver. "American RTL will expose Republican and Democratic politicians who advocate killing children," said Curtis, who is also a former chairman of the Colorado GOP.

Contact: American RTL Action
1-888-888-ARTL
office@ARTLaction.com

Steve Curtis

" SHOULD I AS A CHRISTIAN, VOTE FOR A WOMAN, THOUGH SMART, ELOQUENT IN SPEECH, CHARISMATIC, A BEAUTIFUL WIFE AND MOTHER OF FIVE, SHOULD I?

By Pastor Otwell September 4, 2008

I know, that I will probably get rebuked, for what I will say, but I must say it. I believe that we are seeing the strong delusion, that our Lord said, that he would send upon the earth, in the final days of the Church age. 2Thessalonians 2:1-12 because men will not believe the truth, they will believe a lie. And a lie is what we are seeing, when we see that john Mc Cain picked a woman as his running mate. Our Lord is not the author of confusion.

God put a man over the woman in Genesis 3:16-19 to rule over her and to provide for her, and that law has never changed to this day.I believe this can apply even to the heathen world, as wee as to the Lords church, that women should never be in ace of leadership, neither put in a place of authority over men. And don't use Deborah on me either, it won't work.

For Gods people, we must live by faith Hebrews 10:17 1Corinthians 14:33-38 don't be among the ignorant. Ephesians 5:23-33 Don't get confused about who the head and the boss is in this text. 1Timothy 2: 9-15 Paul sums up our Lords plan and purpose for the woman, the wife, the mother and her path to being successful and succeeding as a godly woman. verse 15 makes it clear on a woman's professional career. Being a wife, a mother and a keeper at home. Titus 2:1-5 why? so that the word of God be not blasphemed. Many have already turned aside after Satan 1Timothy 5:15

Read 1Timothy 5:14-15 The real purpose for women is to get married, have children and guide the house, not run the nation, nor to preach from the pulpits of the church.

Please don't get caught up in this delusion of believing that this nation needs a woman to lead us, even if there is no real men to fill the slot. I have said for years now that most men in America are weak, and hen pecked by the women, and have become followers instead of leaders. Our lord had a problem in Ezekiel 22:23-31 He sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and to stand in the gap before me and the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. But did he go out, and find himself a woman, to save Israel from desolation and destruction? NO he did not.

Should Christians throw in the towel, and stop believing, that our Lord meant what he said, about women who would dare usurp the authority over the man, just because this nation is desperate for someone to lead us? We can listen to good advice from a woman that is under her head, and is under submission to her husband, and her husband is under the submission to his head, which is Jesus Christ our Lord.

Maybe we need to take some lessons from Mose's when Pharaoh tried every way to get him to throw in the towel and to compromise God's way of salvation for Israel, so that Israel could leave Egypt. Mose's never budged, he stood fast on God's way of deliverance and he won the battle. We will win when we stand firm on God's word, and never waver.

We should be like the three Hebrews in Daniel 3:16-18, who said to king Nebuchadnezzar; "we are not careful to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve, is not able to deliver us out of the fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O King. But if not, be it known unto thee, O King, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up."

I myself as a Pastor for over 44 years, and have fervently preached, that a woman's place is in the home and not in the professional work force, which puts them outside the home, I cannot vote for Gov. Sarah Palin as vice President of the U.S.A.
I am not careful about my stand nor my answer.

I cannot tell you not to vote, but ask yourself, am I getting caught up in the strong delusion? and has America become my god, my salvation and my hope? If that be so, you have no hope. Are you more patriotic to America, than Jesus Christ our Lord, who died for us.Should we get caught up in COUNTRY FIRST?

The Pastor of the church at Thyatira got a strong rebuke from the Lord for suffering that woman Jezebel to teach and to seduce his servants. Revelations 2:18-23 It seems to me, that the Lord had not changed his mind about women being in the place of authority, and leadership over men. I don't really believe, that you can find in the scriptures, where women were ever to be leaders over anyone, but to guide the house, (1Timothy 5:14) and to teach the younger women to love their husbands, to love their children and to be keepers at home, that the word of God be not blasphemed.(Titus 2:3-5)

There are many good works women can do and stay in her place, that our Lord purposed for her. What's wrong with that? Why should women become incontent with her ordained purpose, and become like the sodomites who want to pervert the natural to the un-natural, and to go against our Lord. Romans 1:17-32

NOT VOTING!

I'm a Republican, but I have a couple of problems with Palin--
1) A woman with a 4-month-old baby should be taking care of him, not the country. This is a season for everything, and this is her season to bond with with little guy and help him get the best start he can in what's going to be a tough, tough life.
2) I really didn't like the mud-slinging negativeness of her speech, and the fact that she apparently has no respect for community organizers. I think of the people in my own community, who have helped us get much-needed parks, better street lighting, cleaned up ratty businesses and on and on. And my husband helped us get a neighborhood plan, with distinct goals--all of this was done on a volunteer basis. People who help their communities in this way deserve our applause and respect--not to be looked down upon as if their "responsibilities" were less than nothing.
Why couldn't she--and all of them, actually--simply tell us why we should vote Republican rather than continuing to slam the other side! I'm really tired of all the cutting and sarcasm.
I have no doubt but that she's a pit bull with lipstick--but I don't think that's a hallmark of being a follower of Christ, as she claims to be.

I would say these postings are funny but they're not. Why is everybody pissed at Palin for replacing Hillary who lost, and for not having her 17 yr old child kill her unborn, instead of giving life to the child. That's what is really going on in the media and the undercurrent going on here.There is somebody actually, really saying, no killing of the unborn and meaning it to the point of actually standing up for their beliefs against the "choice" politicians. Also, in fact, Jesus and the early Church had women in his ministry teaching, leading the Eucharist in worship of God, converting, and, oh my God, making their own decision as to whether or not they would marry. As for Jesabel, she was not a Christian god and wore makeup, a no, no in Jewishism then. It is powerful men who came after Jesus who through the centuries who worked Jesus's philosophy of equality back to (the O.T.) women being under men. I listened to both speeches of Democrats & Republicans. Actually, the men were more scarcastic and biting than her. But, noone is listening to the men just her. Please, Hillary lost, lost, lost. Don't they teach be a good loser in school or sports any more. There's another woman at the plate now and deserves the same respect as a man gets who replaces another man who lost. Please excuse my spelling & typing. I've doing this really fast because I need to go to work. Oh yes, women have been working, taking care of children and husbands for centuries now. Men only have had to work. As for Dobson, it's a free country and free minds. Thank God, a person can change their mind anytime. Circumstances change and so does thinking. It's called living.

"I think that sometimes prolife people act as if life begins at conception and Ends at birth" a quote i heard recently. I agree that abortion is noting short of murder. At the same time how do we define withholding wealth from the needy? Last year there were 835,000 documented abortions but what about taking care of people who are alive as well? In the USA 670,000 people EVERY NIGHT are homeless, 20% are veterans who fought for our county, 50% are women and children. Or how about the 6 million children in the world who will die this year from malnourishment. How about the 30 million people in our country who cannot afford health care. These are Pro life issues as well. They are issues that the republican party has no interest in addressing. While these issues cannot be called murder, torture is what comes to my mind first.

Jesus said that what you have done for the least of these you have done for me. This includes from conception all the way to death, however soon.

Ah yes, from the cradle to the grave let my saviour, the government, take care of me. IT is the giver of life and meets my needs - why do I need God?
"Withholding wealth" from the needy? From each according to his ability, to each according to his need ......hhmmmm sounds kinda like....communism. Those that do not care of thier family are worse than unbelievers. Let ME make the choice whom to help after MY family that way I can be a cheerful giver with the correct frame of mind/heart. It is a personal conviction. Why should the government steal from me to give to others? I think I could help people better than the government can. What are you doing?
The "church" has fallen short in this respect. Meeting the needs of the needy and the homeless falls squarely on the shoulders of the "church" - that means people in the church should be tithing and giving! Everyone was given abilities from God to perform certian tasks.....every life is valuable. Therefore everyone can "serve" their fellow man by doing something. There is no worthless life. I don't believe that ALL 'needy' people are completely helpless.....some are just lazy. Each person should do what they can.

The scriptures and your reference to Matthew were to the people not the government.If it were gov't He would have said so. That is the distortion.

my comment is for Ernest French. People like you, who are so quick to judge,need to get into a close relationship with Jesus. Supporting women's rights IS NOT supporting abortion.If you so called Christians, would work harder in bringing people to Christ, maybe then these women considering abortion would know that they can go to Christ for their guidance, and not someone like you who only want their own views and thoughts "respected". Who do you think you are to dictate to people what they should do and not do? If you're going to talk about the shedding of blood of the innocent, maybe you should look closer at YOUR president and "your political party". By the way, I am a born again Christian, I am voting for Obama, and I feel very sure that I'm voting for the right one. I cannot vote for someone who wants to continue "to shed innocent blood" in an unjust war, a war for personal revenge and greed! I,also, cannot vote for someone who would "use" Christianity to further their agenda!!

Eric,

I dont understand is the government run by people? I quote you: "It matters what "leaders" think/believe. It affects how we live, how we are governed, and how we can minister to others. There will NEVER be a perfect person for office.....we are all fallen/sinful people. But people in authority are held to a higher standard. This is set forth as to the guidelines to choosing church leaders."

The ways that our leaders are challenged by the words of Jesus are critical to how we are governed. Just because the words are personal in nature does not mean they should not echo into politics. That is what this entire forum has been about.

It is really hypocritical of Dobson and others like him to continually sermonized that women with children under the age of 6 should NOT be working. they should be in the home. I struggled with this guilt trip and knew that there were people in my church judging me for working and taking my kids to Davcare.
So now we see a double standard: Dr. Dobson can decide which women with young children can work outside the home and he glorifies this woman for doing it.
The result of his stand was that there were a lot of so-called Christians NOT showing a very loving Christian attitude towards women like me that did work outside the home.
He OWES many of us an apology now!
I do have a feeling of triumph. there are a LOT of kids whose mother stayed home and in some cases home-schooled them who are in a LOT more trouble than my kids have ever been involved in.
I just thank the Holy Spirit for comforting me and reminding me that men indeed are human.
And now we see that those that are particularly self-righteous have said too much.

WOW...anger in abundance! Look at the way you are bickering! It is sad. I am convinced that we are to study the candidates and what they stand for, then make an intellectual and spiritual decision. The beliefs of McCain and Palin are the most consistant with Scripture as far as I can tell. THANK YOU Palin family, for supporting your daughter in HAVING her baby. Obviously she felt the safety to go to her parents with the truth, and not secretly "take care of the pregnancy!" Many Christian teens turn to abortion out of fear of scrutiny and shame from the Christian community. What I have read is that the statistics for abortion are pretty close to the same, whether or not the unwed teen is a Christian. I say PRAISE GOD for a young girl, and her family who chose to do the right thing. This outward and public display of family values only reinforces my decision to support the Republican ticket. Shame on the Christians who are so quick to judge this woman and her family...we are spoiled here in America, aren't we? We are so judgemental and critical. Praise God for candidates who say they worship God and go to Christian churches! Oh, and by the way, perfectly consistant or not, James Dobson has done more for the Christian family than any of these critical Christians who rake him through the coals...it is really sad to see how quick people are to rip him apart! He is not perfect, just forgiven like the rest of us and trying to do his part! Give the guy a break! He loves the Lord, and loves the Church. Don't crucify him for changing his mind! I'd say all in all he has done a pretty good job being consistant with his words. He has done more to further the kingdom of God than most of us, so let's pray for him, and pray for the candidates... that God will guide and guard all of their words..and that they will use discernment when speaking.

These comments and sincere thoughts on both sides of the "Sarah choice" are interesting as well as amusing. Please take a look in the mirror, check with your friends, family and folks of all kinds and ask a simple question: Despite all the noise and fuss, the choice of VP candidate, in either party, really and honetly change your vote. And I mean REALLY. Did Bush Sr with Reagan, Dan Qaull (I can't even spell his name, or, Dick Cheney?????? It's been a while since the VP made it to the White House and then it was a one term gig. Having said that -- is Sarah (or Joe Biden) really the person to look at. Now, you can return to the one issue debate.

To both Ben and Ruth I say thank you for your posts. I too was sharply criticized by church friends for working 2 evenings a week and not home schooling my children. (Both are now wonderful adults!) The source of that criticism came largely because of James Dobson's books and radio broadcast. If the Democrats had a female candidate with 5 children, you can be sure there would be a great out cry from the Christian community, ESPECIALLY from Dobson. The needs of a Down Syndrome infant, coupled with the needs of a "baby having a baby", would deter any mother worth her salt from perusing such an overwhelming responsibility such as Vice President. Life does begin at conception,but the responsibility for those lives lasts at least 18 years. To be pro life goes well beyond the issue of abortion. It goes to "the least of these, my brethren".

Wow, this is quite a thread, and I just can't keep myself from weighing in.

I have been a life-long right wing Christian. I've always voted mainly Republican and the pro-life issue has been a significant (but not the only) factor in that.

After the last 8 years of Republican/Conservative leadership in our nation I am a whole-hearted supporter of Barak Obama and have moved my political positions (but not my Faith positions) to the "progressive" camp.

There are a lot of reasons for this, but the single largest reason is that I am sick and tired of the corruption and falseness of the conservative movement. Look at Palin's speech as only one of many examples. At her first opportunity to address the nation she deliberately lied about her record on taxes, fiscal responsibility, pork barrel spending, and the bridge to nowhere. She deliberately lied about Obama's position on issues, and she is doing this for her personal gain.

Jesus did use sarcasm but he did not deceive. I think that pretty much shows you the character of Sarah Palin.

I'm not 100% happy with Obama's stance on abortion, but I do have confidence that he will do his best to make sure fewer abortions actually happen. Which do you think God cares about more? That we have the correct laws on the books? Or that our behavior is in line with His will? (Hint: the book of Issaiah may have something to say on this issue)

As for the rest, I can sum up by saying that Obama is a man of faith and character. He is a leader of a well ordered family without a HINT of scandal or divorce. And while you may not like all his positions he has been HONEST about them.

By contrast, Palin has been entirely dis-onest about her plans. Palin is a tax and spend conservative. She balanced her state budget in Alaska by raising taxes on businesses and bringing home the pork from Washington. Then she decries such practices and makes that the centerpiece of her campaign.

It is amazing to me that conservative Christians take this woman seriously, but I am starting to believe that the Christian Right is more concerned about having correct opinions than being a moral person.

Dobson's response is what I expected from him (which shows you how little I respect the man), but it is so very dis-heartening to see "Christian" leaders trading away their moral authority for political influence, and I fear for what this means for the Church and our nation.


I still think FOCUS ON THE FAMILY should be just that:
FOCUSING ON THE FAMILY.

What some of us don't like about Sarah Palin is we don't trust her because she LIES.

Even on Hannity last night (Sept 19) she is still not telling the truth about talking to the
librarian about banning some books, about the bridge to nowhere, about SELLING
the plane on Ebay (she didn't, she just put it on Ebay)

Also, she IS pro-choice because she has said she CHOSE to keep her Downs baby,
She CHOSE to have her daughter keep her baby. If she is a truly against abortion,
then she HAS an obligation to stop Roe versus Wade.
Otherwise, it is just talk.

Here is what really bothers some of us women the most. That she is choosing being
a VP over being a mom. Her children are still young and need mom there.
How can she bond with her infant baby without spending time with him?
That 7 year old daughter adores her mom and needs her. Her pregnant daughter needs
her mom's attention. Her son leaving for Iraq needed his mom there the
last week before he left. It is just not natural for others to raise their children.
I know Todd helps (every other week while in Alaska) and she had sisters
to help but she will not have them in DC.

I don't know why it has become unimportant to be a mom...as if anyone can
do it. (Dad's have different roles than mom's.)
Even in the animal world it is the female that cares for her offspring.

Oh well, whatever, I just think Sarah Palin tells too many exaggerations.
Why not just fess up about the bridge, the plane, even troopergate.

(They make too big a deal about a small taser shock to a boy asking to experience
it...it wasn't done in anger.)

AND the troopergate investigation was BEFORE she was asked to be VP.
Kinda strange she only wants the 3 people SHE chose to make the discussion
about it. STRANGE and not appropriate for fairness.

P.S. She is the biggest lobbyist of all wanting the pipeline in Alaska.
And pressuring McCain to get her way. (You know she will.)