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September 8, 2008

Why Not to Trust Online Polls

If you're surprised that two-thirds of people taking the CT poll are supporting Barack Obama, please note that a number of folks are coming from Democratic Underground. There may be Republican sites trying to game the results on the other end of the spectrum, I don't know.

But this is part of the reason why online polls should be viewed as for entertainment purposes only. Actually, while many people enjoy taking these online polls knowing they're not actually involved in research, ultimately they're not for entertainment purposes. Websites use them basically because they increase site traffic, which adds a bit of revenue. Hmmm. Never mind. Online polls are really, really important! McCain supporters unite! Go tell all your friends about the poll and get your side to win! And Obama supporters: Keep up the pressure! Tell all your friends to click on Obama!

This is entertaining after all.


Thanks Mr. Olsen! I voted on that McCain/Obama poll at CT when it first appeared, and was pleased to see that McCain votes outweighed Obama votes by at least 2 to 1... and then I noticed something very odd - suddenly the numbers switched to favor Obama by the same ratio. I did a Google search of "CT McCain Obama poll" and found numerous Democrat site (as you noted) admonishing readers to go to CT and weigh in on the poll... in a few cases I even saw them periodically keeping score and cheering the Obamacrats on! I tried to put the word out to similar conservative sites and my friends and family but it was no match for what Democrat Underground (and even the Obama website) was doing... and none of the blogs or other online sources I notified placed a similar message to vote online. And then I realized that it just didn't really matter since the only important vote occurs in November. I just hated to think that the CT poll with skewed results might actually influence some fence sitters towards the Obama camp. Thanks again.

I believe that Barack Obama is the Christian that we need to lead this country. I will not debate John McCain's Christian witness--but I have seen little of it during the last 26 years of his time in congress. In addition, I believe that I have been fooled already by the Republican Party, and will not be fooled again.

Interesting comments. I receive many of the "liberal" emails and haven't seen anyone encouraging folk to go to CT's site for polling--I didn't even know it existed until today.

And I was not aware of a Democratic underground.

Finally, it seems to me that Obama's comments are rarely belittling.He has tried very hard to stay away from attacking personality. I have been appalled, however, of the statements made by Republicans and the celebrity business, etc. I heard the Palin's comment while driving the next day and nearly drove off the road. I was shocked.

And I am curious why so many fundamentalists and evangelicals are so eager to jump to support Palin when they have proclaimed for years that it is unnatural for a woman to lead men.

I have not seen any emails urging Dems to go online and vote. I support Obama and did not support Bush because I never believed that issues like the marriage amendment or any of the other moral issues would actually be carried out. I saw this all as a ploy years ago.
I am also appalled at the statements by Rep -- the nastiness etc.
It is actually making me ill and again my non-Christian friends are mocking the right-- why should they believe anything I would tell them as a Christian when so-called Christian Evangelicals are siding and supporting this type of campaign.
Such things as the hypocrisy of the Rep that they ignore when they are bashing Dems such as Guiliani and McCain's adultery. How can Christians support that?
Also, I was made to feel guilty for years by people in my church and by Dobson because I worked while my children were in DayCare. That was between me and God.
But now he can decide it is all right for Palin with 5 children to take on this huge job! I only had two and struggled -- as a working mother, I can not see how she can do both jobs.

I'll be upfront, I am a conservative evangelical. (Strike 1) I believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. (Strike 2) I believe that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior. (To some, Strike 3). I struggle with the idea of capitalism as it relates to Scripture but I don't believe that I should be required by government to do what God has asked me to willingly do. I do not believe that God would support aborting a fetus. I believe that God forgives sinners if they repent. We are each answerable for our own decisions. If a person has asked God for forgiveness who am I to question it? Do I know more than God? The Democratic platform re: abortion is a deal breaker for me. Senator Obama (I don't believe) has the same ideas regarding the sanctity of life that I hold.

I am downright impressed with the cleanliness of the Obama campaign. The relative lack of dirt and smear tactics. I am also impressed with his thoughtfulness, eloquence, and obvious intelligence. The bad news is, I disagree with him on nearly EVERY issue. I'm not exaggerating here, literally, EVERYTHING. Conversely, having taken a "who do you line up with" type test some months ago when there where still a dozen candidates to choose from, I found that McCain and I agreed on just about everything. More than any other candidate, even though at that time I wasn't even considering him.

Maybe some of the 0bamites will read some of the other information on the CT site. It could open their eyes. Good can come from evil.

I am a Christian and i voted in your poll for Obama. McCain is too much into war. He says we will be at war for the next 100 years. I am 77 and I do not want to know that we are at war for the rest of my life. At least with Obama I have a chance.

Also McCain and other Republicans do not know what the average American's life is like. Very few of us have 7 homes. Shoot most us don't have even one like the ones mcCain has. They have no conception what life is like for the little guy.

I am an evangelical who was once a Democrat, but they have moved far away from my spiritual values. The fact that Obama not only supports abortion, but also the killing of a child that survives a botched abortion is beyond the pale for me. In addition, when Obama was asked by Rick Warren when life begins, he could not answer and said that was above his pay grade. I have read some of the left wing sites like Democratic Underground, DailKos and MoveOn and they are filled with anger and hatred. If Christians want to know what America will be like under an Obama presidency with a Democratic congress, you may want to check out these sites.

Obama's campaign may not have depended on dirt and smear tactics (though to say they never used them wouldn't be accurate)--no, instead they used deceptively smooth, yet devastating innuendo--just ask the Hillary supporters. And they came down hard and heavy on anyone who attempted to evaluate Obama's ideas, as if no one had a right to question him. In the end, I find the cult of personality and celebrity that he and his campaign purposely designed and encouraged far more alarming than if he had been overtly critical. It makes the addition of grouchy Joe Biden almost a breath of fresh air.

All spring McCain ran a spite-free campaign, but the press paid him very little attention, except to criticize him; meanwhile, they were inhaling and exhaling Obama. As I've argued elsewhere, why would Obama NEED to criticize when most of the media is doing it for him?

To DNADEB: Palin can be a mother of 5 and a politician not only because she has an executive-type temperament, but because her husband stays at home as the caregiver. In other words, this seems like a partnership at work. She also seems to enjoy tremendous support from her church and community. Perhaps you did not have any of those things, and if so, that is unfortunate. And Jy: the argument that a woman shouldn't be involved in leadership, especially if a portion of the followers are men is old, old, old, and mostly belongs to a generation that is in the grave. And a part of that generation would stipulate that the woman question has more to do with her relationship to her husband--not the same as being in a civil position of authority. You must not really hang out with evangelicals (nor many so-called fundamentalists either).

I struggle with evil--and there is much sin in the world. If abortion was outlawed tomorrow, I'm not at all sure there would be any significant drop in numbers--reported numbers, yes--real numbers, no. There are far more medical practitioners with the training and sophistication to perform them. And you know what, there might just be a major increase in "morning after" methods and far, far earlier terminations.
OK, now you hate me, I know, but the best way to prevent teen pregnancy is to have dads in the home, too--not somewhere on the north slope of Alaska, or pushed out of the home by divorce courts empowered by his former wife.
Where is the voice of the church on this? The numbers say that church attenders have the same divorce rate as pagans.
What I once heard a psychiatrist say about his field, is quite germane here--
We have a great deal to be modest about!

Don't be deceived Obama would shake your hand, smile at you, look you in the eye and then stab you in the back when you turned around. Espeically you people who "cling to your religion and guns". Barak "Apollo" Obama entertains liars(Jeremiah Wright),terrorists(William Ayers) and racist's (Louis Farakhan)The man is anything but clean and any time anyone raises issue concerning his questionable judgement he feigns hurt and plays the martyr...whatta joke.
To MJ Spaulding--You say McCain is pro-war, I say he's pro-defense. He'll do a great job of defending our country and keeping us safe while Obama will pull a Clintonesque dismantling of our military. Remember how much our soldiers hated Clinton? He had no respect for the troops and morale amoung the ranks pretty much sucked.

I hear alot about how McCain & Palin have AND will take on the republicans in Washignton D.C., and somehow they have done this before, and yet there is the video of McCain saying that he voted over 90% of the time with Bush (a republican), MORE than even his fellow republicans, and this is somehow proof that he is NOT a republican?

Someone, please, remind me again...
Which party nominated McCain & Palin for President last week in Minnesota?

Excuse me...it should have read "for President & Vice President last week in Minnesota..."

Also, these are McCain's own words (the "voting with Bush 90% of the time, even MORE than his fellow republicans"..thing), NO ONE, not even McCain himself, can refute that..

Well, they could try...

i apologize in advance, but i have a few more things to add for your consideration as well...please pardon my lengthiness.

As for the abortion thing, all i have to ask is a simple question.
What respectable (or serious, faithful, God-revering Christian...if you like) would choose to have the abortion they hate so much, and tell us they hate so much all the time?...so...my point is...what do we have to worry about?
Do you really think abortions will go up with Obama as president?
Do you really think they will go down with McCain as president?
Or, will people go back to doing it the way they used to before it was made legal (by man, i may add...NOT God), if it were made illegal in man's law again?

It's called freewill.

If you decide to rob, rape, ridicule or murder someone, you WILL pay for it in the end, whether or not it is the "law of the land".
The criminal who doesn't get caught or convicted here, will eventually pay for their crime, unless they have repented and asked for forgiveness from Our God, and that is neither your or my business.

God gave us ALL freewill, to do as we please (whether choosing right or wrong), from the Garden of Eden on to "that day", which only the Father knows.
It's what YOU decide to do with that freewill that matters most.

And, it's what God decides to do about it that is His business,...not ours.

I hate abortion too.
But i will not tell someone else how to run their life.
If they want to decide to do things the wrong way, as looked at from God's point of view (or even my own point of view...as if that matters), and then ask for forgiveness or not, whether sincere or not, it is NONE of my (or your), business.

You & i can only do what is best for ourselves....and hope & pray that others also choose the way of life...but...

You can lead a horse to water,...you can't make him drink.

You can't change anything by twisting someone's arm behind their back...or threatening punishment (as proven by all of the many over-capacity jails/prisons in this country).
But, you CAN lead by example, and actually SHOW others the best possible example of how a Christian lives this earthly life.

It seems like as soon as a politcal election comes around, everyone forgets the thing about not judging others...as if it's open season all of a sudden, simply because these people are in the spotlight.

Neither one of these men/women is going to cure the whole world's ills.
And, neither one of these men/women are going to destroy us either.

Re: Revelation

And also, even IF any one of these people were the anti-christ, as good Christians, wouldn't we see it coming? Or, at least, see it for what it is when it got here, and do what we have been taught to do? (considering that you have been taught well...or at all)

May i suggest that we ALL pray that we pick the correct people for the job(s), and NOT only the ones for the highest-offices...for ALL elected offices.

I don't believe either one of these men/women is evil...they will simply do the best job they can. The judgment is left up to someone higher than us.

All I can say is if you like the last 8 years vote McCain....
i am a Christian and one thing that really bothers me is all this abortion talk---if you are against abortion shouldn't you value all life--even Iraqi's ???? My heart weeps for humanity....


It's all about consistancy with me. At least I know where Obama stands on all the issues. McCain is to wishy washy. He appears to be not telling it all. America needs a consistant & honest leader. I dont recall Obama claiming to be a Christian, but he believes in the Christian teaching. McCain says he's a Christian but his past moral decisions prove otherwise.

It never ceases to amaze me the people who claim to be against abortion, yet argue to keep it legal. I have to wonder if they've just not thought about it enough. If you don't really give an unborn baby's life the same importance as your own then it makes sense. You want to move on. You want to move the issue to the back. Say crap like "it'll happen anyway". If it wasn't about murder then yeah, move on. But it is.

The Democrat candidate is the closest thing to electing a foreigner to lead our nation! It has been reported that he used foreign passports when traveling internationally. If this is true, the law of the land is that he should automatically have lost his American citizenship. I would appreciate CT investigating this. God Bless America.

I'm still waiting for Bush to keep his campaign promise (twice) to overturn Roe v Wade. It appears to be quite far down on his priority list.

I am voting for and will do anything for McCain/Palin. :) Obama is as close to a Muslim as they come. His wife, Michelle, hates America, until she sets her eyes on the White House, and then suddenly she loves America. All of the liberal press is out to smear destroy Gov. Palin, which is making me donate more money to their cause. If Obama loves Germany so much that he wanted to give a speech at that memorial, then give him and his family a one-way ticket to that memorial and let him live there. Let the rest of us live in peace in America. Thank you very much.

Posted By: R.L., expat in the Middle East " The numbers say that church attenders have the same divorce rate as pagans".
RL - You need to take another look at the numbers. This statement is a myth propagated by non-Christians and uninformed Christians.

While divorce rates among self-described Christians can be as high or higher than the general public at about 50%, the rate can be shown to drop dramatically when you consider how seriously these Christians take their faith. For example, simply factoring in weekly church service attendance shows a precipitous drop in the divorce rate to about 27%. Those Christians who pray often and read and study the bible regularly have a minuscule divorce rate. The site below demonstrates part of my statement.


As for the poll, the results shown are typical of flooding activity. Obviously the skewed results do not reflect the current national polls, which as of today show McCain over Obama by 2.8%.

Rochelle--how shallow can you be? You must not pay attention to what's going on in this election--oh wait, you must tune in faithfully to MSNBC and CNN to listen to them spew that leftwing propaganda sewage that they are known so well for. Don't be afraid to adventure into something different once in awhile to get a more accurate view of things. I get around to many news outlets-the lefties, the righties and everything inbetween and trust me on this one Obama changes his viewpoint more often than he changes socks. Before he was aginst school vouchers, now he's for them. He was against using force in Iran now he's for it. He was against drilling for oil, now it seems he's swingin' over on that one too. He was a friend and protege of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, but since he knew that could hinder his journey to the Whitehouse he's changed his mind--are you sensing a pattern here Rochelle? Consistent and honest are not two words I'd use to describe Obama!

Those followers of Christ who downplay the cultural impact of abortion and affirmed homosexuality can do all the political casuistry they desire:
McCain is still for stopping the killing of innocent pre-born babies. Obama supports it.

McCain, depite his personal moral marital failures, legistlatively affirms that marriage is defined as "one man/one woman." Obama, while spewing rationalizations that make his position unintelligible, refuses to support the constituional amendments that simply state that.

We are not single or dual issue driven. We simply know that abortion is the foundational issue. And marriage (as opposed to same sex "marriage") is, among other things, a survival issue - a survival issue of religous freedom in this country.

Those who disagree on the importance of the abortion and marriage issues will come to accept the reality of how truly important they are - probably too late - when the damage to our nation has gone beyond repair, both in loss of life (abortion) and when no one can any longer speak of biblical marraige, as it will be a hate crime.

Then, and only then, the Obama supporters will realize the price of appearing politically chic and cool in the 2008 elections.

The Democrat candidate is the closest thing to electing a foreigner to lead our nation! It has been reported that he used foreign passports when traveling internationally. If this is true, the law of the land is that he should automatically have lost his American citizenship. I would appreciate CT investigating this. God Bless America.

Posted by: David Swindoll at September 9, 2008

"It has been reported...???

Where? By Whom? At what time? In which publication? On what date?

You make these "statements" as if they were fact, and then ask for proof?

Here's a bright idea.
YOU investigate this and report back to us, BEFORE you start this rumor and ask someone else to do your research for you.

Bring ALL of your R & D data and post it to this forum.
FACTS...NOT rumors.

I am waiting the see the trajectory by which the son of an atheist mother and Muslim father and Muslim stepfather abandoned Islam and became an "infidel".
Where and how and when did he make that decision?
Who led him into the Kingdom?
How old was he?
With his odd mix of atheism and Islam, what brought him to Jesus?
No one seems to know the answer to that.
Has he ever attended any churches other than Jeremiah Wright's?
Where was he discipled, if ever?
He is a big question and his charismatic personality and the fact that he zoomed in out of nowhere are a huge concern.
People have given themselves over to him blindly. He has spent only a few years in the Illinois state house (where he was the lone voter against a bill to ban Live Birth abortions) and has had less than one term in the US Senate where he voted Not Present for most of his votes, showing up only 173 days, and has spent most of his time, presumptuously, running for president.

Washington Post, 4-2-08, Michael Gerson column:
"But Obama's record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion -- a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called "close to infanticide." Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban. In the Illinois state Senate, he opposed a bill similar to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which prevents the killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion. And now Obama has oddly claimed that he would not want his daughters to be "punished with a baby" because of a crisis pregnancy -- hardly a welcoming attitude toward new life."
But hey! Obama's cool---that's what counts nowadays.
Plus he's against "killing" (I think).

If this is an accurate reflection of CT "viewers" it astounds me! It doesn't even reflect the current national polls which have McCain ahead in most. I can't imagine that the Christian (capital "C") community is actually skewed that way! To me, it is NOT entertaining -- just useless!

I think I have figured out why a number of Obama supporters keep up such a constant and hatefilled monologue against McCain and Palin - those tactics have worked well for gaining power in Europe during the last 100 years and it keeps anybody from talking about Obama's total lack of executive governmental experience and meager qualifications to be president. The Washington Post stats on Obama's Senatorial experience so far have him missing 45% of the sessions and refusing to vote either yes or no most of the time when he was present. I guess with leadership experience like that, being able to eloquently say the word "change" and spending all of their time talking smack against the Republicans is about all the leftist-controlled Democratic party has to offer these days.

I am an elderly black woman and a born again Christian. My husband was a minister and I love the Lord.

But when I read some of these comments, filled with so much anger, slander, and vile nastiness, I am ashamed to be one of you. And you all should be ashamed as well.

I have seen this before. Christians behaved like this back when we were marching with Martin Luther King. It is a sad day when Christians act like un-Christians.

I agree with Mary. Eph. 4:29 - Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only what is helpful for building others up, according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

These are exactly the behaviors that those guys at christian citizens are talking about.

Their "Christians Gone Wild" article should be required reading before any believer - regardless of your party - posts anything online.