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November 8, 2008

Obama Sought Out Controversial Gay Bishop

Joel Hunter wasn't the only religious leader on Barack Obama's list of people to call. Obama also sought out controversial gay bishop Gene Robinson three times during his campaign, Ruth Gledhill of the The Times in London reports.

"The first words out of [Obama's] mouth were: ?Well you're certainly causing a lot of trouble,' My response to him was: ?Well that makes two of us.'" "He said that Mr Obama had indicated his support for equal civil rights for gay and lesbian people and described the election as a "religious experience."

Robinson is the openly gay bishop whose consecration led several Episcopalian conservatives to split from the church.

In other non-political but important religion news, a third diocese split from the church today. The Diocese of Fort Worth, will vote next week on whether to do the same.

Comments

Oh yeah...but Obama is a christian right??? Yeah, and Bishop Spong is a christian also right?? And the unitarians preach the truth....

Please note..I am being sarcastic...this article and thousands more to come in the next 4 years will show all those deluded christians that they voted in the most anti christian candidate in American History!!

Sad but true!

Obama does not support gay marriages! This is misleading! He supports that they should be allowed the same health care opportunities as I should! They are still humans! It is the ACT that is condemned, not the person!! Where is the church in this! How are they ministering to the homosexuals instead of criticizing and condemning!! When we talk about homosexuality in the church, it is in the form of condemnation! Please, minister to these people as Jesus would!! Let them know they have another choice and his name is Jesus!! Speak with love and not contempt!!


Barack seems to be so much like Christ than the rest of you all. No, I am not saying compromise, but, compassion that reaches out to others. I believe God is going to use him to bring healing to our nation.

shalom

I find it extremely interesting that anyone who reads the bible cannnot see, that as Israel was judged for offending a Holy God, so will America be judged. How can Yahweh bless a Nation whos sins have now surpassed the sins of Sodom and Gommorah. His judgements are always redemptive in Nature, desiring a people who call themselves by His name to repent and turn from sin. The only hope for mercy on this Nation is for the whole lot of us to fall on our faces and cry out for Mercy as Ninevah did. However where are the Prophets who speak a true word of Yahweh. Just as in the days of Jeremisah they prophesy lies, And the few who prophesy the truth our thrown out of your man made religious organizatons

Bishop Gene was fully instituted as a Bishop in the Episcopal Church of The United States.
He, amongst many, bishops, speak in favor of all civil rights for all people.
Not just conservative Christians.
Everyone has the right to determine their status in life and no one has the right to abridge their rights.
As to those leaving the church may they go in peace but they need to realize that they are reforming themselves to be with Nigerian and groups in So. America and the only things they want are the properties and income of the United States churches. They will be really disappointed when they find out the real motives.
Votres

The bible makes no distinction between the sin and the sinner. That is an unbiblical concept. People are condemned not apart from their actions but because of them.

Barack Obama has said openly that he is not in favor of gay marriages, however his record on the issues says anything but that. He was against Prop 8 in California which simply sought to overturn the rogue activist judges ruling on marriage. Prop 8 only said that the state of California only recognizes "marriage" to be between one man and one woman. It had nothing to do with civil unions, health care, or any other "rights" afforded to all individuals, regardless of sexual oreintation, race or other, under the constitution.

He also wrote a congralutory letter to the members of the Gay Lesbian Bisexxual Transgender org on their choice to get married, when California allowed it. If that seems "like Christ" to you, then I would suggest reading your bible a little more carefully.

The bible makes no distinction between the sin and the sinner. That is an unbiblical concept. People are condemned not apart from their actions but because of them.

Barack Obama has said openly that he is not in favor of gay marriages, however his record on the issues says anything but that. He was against Prop 8 in California which simply sought to overturn the rogue activist judges ruling on marriage. Prop 8 only said that the state of California only recognizes "marriage" to be between one man and one woman. It had nothing to do with civil unions, health care, or any other "rights" afforded to all individuals, regardless of sexual oreintation, race or other, under the constitution.

He also wrote a congratulatory letter to the members of the Gay Lesbian Bisexxual Transgender org on their choice to get married, when California allowed it. If that seems "like Christ" to you, then I would suggest reading your bible a little more carefully.

It's amazing the attitude of some of the "religious right". Hypocrisy is amazing.

Whoa!! I didn't detect even the smallest condemnation, never mind contempt, in the simple report above. Yes, many evangelical Christians are judgmental and that needs to change, but overreaction to a simple news story is not an appropriate response either. It was a simple report. As it happens, I agree with Obama on this one, but draw the line at gay marriage. Marriage, by definition, cannot BE except between a man and a woman. But civil rights for the gay community is a good and moral thing. If our gospel is anything other than winsome, why would people want to become Christians?

I agree with the comments about showing love and compassion to all and reaching out to all. But shouldn't the church show Christ's love without condoning the sin? That doesn't mean throwing stones or holding angry demonstrations, but it does mean standing fast against sin. But it seems as if many Christians want it either/or - love and compassion OR stand against sin. Yet Christ called us to do both. (Obama, by the way, is against gay marriage but for the civil unions, essentially a state-sanctioned marriage.)

While there are MANY things I disagree with the President Elect on, I think that believers will fair much better under his Presidency, than non-belivers would have under Evangelical domination!

Obama, like Christ? Are you serious? Perhaps you should look at the Christ of the Bible, instead of accepting the Christ that the media tells us to be like... one who has been re-made impotent and void of a passion for holiness. Seriously, re-read the Gospels. Jesus was not wishy-washy about sin. True, Jesus absolutely loved sinners... especially those who were ignorant of their sin. But, where is the tolerance in "go and sin no more?" And as for religious leaders (like the bishop) who lived in sin, those who claimed to represent God on earth, those, Christ had no tolerance for whatsoever. Read His words to them, they were absolutely words of condemnation. In short, Jesus related quite differently to those who He wanted to lead into the truth, than He did to those who had already heard the truth only to reject it for the lies of Satan. Obama may be a charismatic leader, but his leadership on several moral issues is in the opposite direction of Jesus. I'm ready to give him a chance as President, even though I didn't vote for him and passionately disagree with his past positions. But, please, don't tell us how Christ-like He is. He may have some good qualities, but to liken Him to Christ, especially in moral issues like this, is simply outlandish.

It is enlightning and heartening to see a true Christian support and accept other Christians, gay or straight.
As for the pouters that want to leave the churches, don't let the door hit you. Please make us both happy and leave. We have suffered too long and wasted too much time in trying to placate your twisted theology.
We finally have a president who will listen to us, do something positive, and not be tyrannical in his leadership ideals.
GMMelby, Pastor

Oh Chris, I wish you were right. But right now he is going to use his presidential power to reverse all the directives Bush has in place regarding abortion, and many other things abhorent to God. Check out www.massmediamail.com/durarealidad
if you dare.

let it be known the lord loves all sinners thats you.he died on the cross for all of us.Please understand the Christian they love the homosexuals but when your a christian you cant go against Gods word.Please I am a sinner in differant ways ,but jesus states who ever calls on the name of the lord will be saved.in john 316 states for god so loved the world that he gave his only son that who soever belive in him has eternal life.you would not give your only begotten son if there was anyother way to god would you?we are to call on jesus as sinners he will then help us in our sins he then will give us the holy spirit to overcome all differant kinds of sin.Jesus states in John 14;6 I am the way the truth and the light nobody goes to the father exept through me.thankyou God bless and please call on Jesus he will help all of us.

Obama opposed Prop 8 in California, how is this not being in favor of gay marriage? Codifying sinful behavior in law is not showing compassion, but a further disintegration of the moral fabric that under-girds our society. It is entirely consistent to oppose sinful behavior while reaching out to the sinner in a compassionate way. This is what Jesus did with the woman caught in adultery. He dealt with her accusers but told her to go and sin no more. He had compassion because the law of the land allowed for her to be stoned, but he also showed no tolerance for her sinful behavior. (John 8:3-11)

Ann, the "church" hears and listens to only what they can hear, that being that anybody who disagrees with them, is a dispicable sinner.

Ann, the "church" hears and listens to only what they can hear, that being that anybody who disagrees with them, is a dispicable sinner.

Let us not refer to the bible in response to
anything that is happening in this day and age.
To think that a 2000 year old book has any relevance
in this year of 2008 is cuckoo to say the least.

For Linda, Nov 11th - This is so true! You never hear about homosexuality and abortion until election time, in the church!! We are expecting Obama to undue what has been allowed for years before he even ran for office!! What has everyone, especially the church been doing up until now!! Abortions have increased and homosexuality is on the rise! You can legalize all you want, but people will still DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH THEIR BODIES!! Alot of Christians are homosexuals and having abortions, don't fool yourself!! Sitting in the pews in silence leading a double life similiar to Ted Haggard!! All of a sudden now everyone wants to jump on the band wagon to stop it! Just preach the gospel without condemnation!!

Christians are called upon to be judgmental, not in the sense of judging harshly, but in weighing issues based on the Word of God. Homosexual practice is irrefutably condemned in the Bible and unrepentant sinners should be shunned instead of being given leadership roles in the church.

Mr. Obama's agenda calls for seeking statistical outliers like Robinson. His all accepting, all inclusive policy may be okay with society in general, but is ill-informed regarding the church. It's admirable to want to serve the needy, but without sound judgment based on good teaching I guess it's hard to know where to draw the line.

It's not "Gay marriage," it's just "marriage." With the current understanding of marriage as between two consenting adults who love, respect and support each other and want to try to establish a life long relationship and merge and expand their respective families, as I think Bishop Tutu said about marrying same sex couples..."Why not?"

"Homosexuality" isn't a sin, it's not even a theory that's applicable to people. People do identity, animals do homosexuality. The word strips GLBT people of their identity, reducing them to animal behavior...making "homosexual" an absolutely unacceptable label for a people and their communities.

"but in weighing issues based on the Word of God"

True, but the Bible talks about homosexual practice a maximum of 11 times and injustice to the poor over 2000 times. Not saying its not an issue, just not THE issue. If we are weighing issues, lets get the scales out and find out what matters most to God.

What about war and imperialism? What about racism? What about globalisation, and oppression?

The only New Testament portion to talk about actual homosexual practice (not male prostitution; also I use practice because orientation was not actually considered in antiquity) is Romans 1.

In that chapter, it is discussed as one of the chief symptoms of idolatry, part of a downward spiral, a breakdown in essential humanness. "Refusing to know God, they soon didn't know how to be human either."

But their sexual confusion is in the middle of the spiral, not at the end and not at the beginning. From verse 28 on, God lets the idolaters run loose. The rampant evil that is then released is described as "grabbing and grasping, vicious backstabbing... envy, wanton killing, bickering, and cheating...". Sex isn't mentioned.

In Romans 2, directly after that he says, "Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. (NKJV)"

It is a mistake to try to legislate consensual sexual practice: it is confusing the symptom for the disease. The church needs to offer these people better lives--the life Jesus gives--not try to manipulate their present lives through legal action.

It is a mistake to think of homosexual practice as the biggest sin. The Bible talks a lot about sin, but so very little about that one. When it does, it indicates a very different assessment. Romans 1 makes it clear: when hell breaks loose its not sexual sins with which God is taking the most issue (verses 28-32).

The old testament prophets were the most outspoken on the heinousness of sin and yet Ezekiel says the sin of Sodom (known for its deviant sexuality) was "pride, fullness of food, and abundance of idleness; neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty and committed abomination before Me". (By the way, 'abomination' is not exclusive to sexual sin though it does include it). God's first complaints on Sodom was that they were proud, gluttonous and lazy and ignored the poor.

Why is it so many American Christians are more concerned about a symbolic victory over sexually confused people than about working for the real 'moral issues' that the God of scripture is concerned with?

Many American Christians are PROUD and nationalistic, saying God is for our country and sanctions our wars. Many American Christians are GLUTTONOUS: we consume more and more things, buy more and more things and all the time we could meet the basic nutritional needs of the third world with what we spend on ice cream every year (look it up if you don't believe me). We die of obesity-related diseases while others die of starvation. We are LAZY. Our government pays agricultural subsidies to corporations to overproduce, and uses the artificially cheap products in conjunction with tariffs and over-priced pharmaceuticals to keep an entire HALF of the human beings in the world, human beings made in God's image, in abject poverty, trying to live on less than $2 a day. The amount we spend on agricultural subsidies is 6 times what we pay in so-called 'aid'. Its not that we're not doing enough for them, its that we're doing to much to keep them down.

So, who are the Sodomites?

In Ezekiel 16, God was saying to Israel, "Sodom hasn't sinned like you have, because you knew, because you were mine, because I loved you like a husband loves his bride, I found you covered in blood and nursed you, I made a covenant with you, giving you my love saying I'd be torn apart before I'd break it. So, how could you go and break it?"

I have a feeling that could be Jesus speaking to so-called Christian America. We took Sodom's blueprint and made it public policy. It has very little to do with homosexuality. And at any rate, we'll take Paul's word for it: that's only a symptom on the way to a far worse outcome. The disease is idolatry. As long as we worship an American Jesus that bears little resemblance to the Jesus of Scripture and of history, (taking selectively from the Bible to push partisan political agendas) that's what we're committing, and then we're part of the problem and not the solution.

"2nd Thes Chapter two "the apostasy will come first beforchrist Jesus returns and now you will see as in the news already they the sodomites are attcking the Churches and this is Americas demise and in three years the Anti-Christ will be revealed when the road map to peace is signed dividing the land of Israel. which by the way is God's land and you can read it in the bible,make no mistake about it. "When I arise says the LORD I will also make an end so this will mark the last seven years of Daniels prophecy Ch 9.
Anti-christ will make a false peace with Israel and break his deal in the middle of the seven years and sit in the Temple in Israel and claim to be God and also no more money Just 666 no more cash just the chip under the skin. Repent and prepare yur hearts for the King of King and the Lord of Lord's. Amen even so come Lord Jesus.

"Marriage, by definition, cannot BE except between a man and a woman."

No, that is incorrect.

Marriage, BY DEFINITION, is a union of any two elements - included in this would be the merger of two companies (like ABC and Disney) or two or more ingredients in a recipe (like peas, Cheddar cheese, salad dressing, roasted peanuts, LaChoy Chinese noodles, cauliflower and pearl onions in pea salad).

The actual word itself never has been limited to the religious sphere. Do not deceive yourselves that it has.

I pray 4 america-i'm black & i didn't vote 4 anybody i'm a Christian before I am an African AMerican-the time is near Bless our souls-this is pure blasphemy-God loves all-he just hate sin-think bout it