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January 21, 2009

Poor Pastor Rick

All that praying outside yesterday got him sick.

Comments

Mr. Waren quoted from the Koran, why did he honor a deomically inspired book? He used the Muslim name for Jesus. The Muslim Jesus is just a prophet not the son of God, didn't die on the cross and didn't raise from the dead. In the words of the bible he is another jesus. Allah is not the God of the bible. Why did he equate the Muslim god and the God of the bible as one and the same?

Because he chose not to confuse the path with the Ineffable.

"God can be reached through many paths; each of these sectarian religions points out a path which ultimately leads to Divinity. Yes, all religions are paths, but the paths are not God. I have seen all sects and all paths. I do not care for them any more. People belonging to these sects quarrel so much! After trying all religions, I have realized that God is the Whole and I AM His part; that He is the Lord and I AM his servant; again I realize, He is I; I AM He...God is not only personal and with form but He can take the form of Krisna, Christ or any other Incarnation. It is true that He manifests Himself in infinite forms to fulfill the desires of His devotees. It is also true that He is formless, Indivisible Existence-Intelligence-Bliss Absolute."

-- Shri Ramakrishna

Once you have come to this realization, you will begin to see all of humanity as a reflection of God, and you can move away from the destructive world view of "us vs them".

Namaste

S-


Isa is the Arabic pronunciation for Jesus, just as "Jesus" is the English pronunciation of "Yeshua." He wasn't equating Islam and Christianity at all, but rather simply invoking Christ in a number of different dialects.

Dan,

James 5:11

'nough said.

Oh come on, Dan. There were millions of Muslims watching the Inauguration, in places like Saudi Arabia where missionaries and Christian media are not allowed. I don't know Pastor Rick but I'm sure that he purposely used the Muslim name of Jesus, after saying "the One who changed my life.." to show them that the Jesus in whose name he was praying is alive, powerful and life-changing, not just a prophet. With one sentence and one word Pastor Rick was able to communicate a truth about Jesus that cut though all the many defenses the Muslim world erects to keep any expression of the power of Jesus out of their countries. It was a brilliant stroke!

"Mr. Waren quoted from the Koran, why did he honor a deomically (sic) inspired book?" I hate to go all post-modern on you, on the other hand, maybe I like to do that, but how could you possibly know what you're claiming?

Such dehumanizing, arrogant, supremacist slander does not do the church any good, I would think, but then, how could I know that...lol? Judging from the "homosexual" hubbub, maybe slanderous, supremacist, dehumanizing, arrogant, and likely unhealthy emotions are the only things left keeping the church alive? Or at least the conservative church appears to be mainly fueled by that, but my observations are no doubt biased.

The Koran is an interesting, influential and pretty ancient book, if you can find a good translation, good luck with that. You don't have to believe everything in it to be enlightened by it...if you read it in the radical spirit of the Golden Rule.

Well he named Jesus in arabic so it would not be doubts that he was refering to Jesus! There are many muslins who never understood that jesus and isa are the same one in english and the other in arabic! It was a great pryer mesege for the whole world to see!
congratulations pastor Warren

I work for a Christian missionary agency, and I know for a fact that when missionaries use the Muslim name for Jesus, those who follow Islam are much more inclined to consider the claims of Christ when believers witness to them. I may not agree with everything Rick Warren has said and done (far from it), but let's give him the benefit of the doubt on this and assume that his motives were pure. And let's thank God that we still live in a nation where a pastor is free to pray in the Name of Jesus during an inaugural prayer!

FYI ... Esa is the name some use for Jesus, period. If your reasoning is sound, then Messianic Jews should not use the name Yeshua for Jesus, since Jewish theology holds that Yeshua was not God. Yes, Allah is not the same as the God of the Bible, but Esa is the very Son of God, the promised One come in the flesh, Jesus the Christ.

Oh my goodness. There are Christian believers all over the world who use the name of Isa when they pray. It is the same Jesus through whom I am saved. Just another language. May God show you mercy as you learn truth, Dan.

Rick made a huge mistake - what he did is called apostasy in the Bible. For a minister to do this is equivalent to one of the disciples saying this about Jesus. Rick just shot himself in the foot big time if he really did this - I did not watch the inauguration because I don't support Obama and never will. He is evil and this will show up later on, you can count on it. Shame of Rick!!!!! May God forgive him for such apostasy! As a minister I will be praying for his mistake that God will truly forgive him for this horrible action. He will answer to Christ for this, you can count on it. "No one comes to the Father, except by me," according to Christ himself.

My take on Rick's prayer was that it was thoroughly Christian. Each word was carefully selected to honor the one true God, our Heavenly Father, his Son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. He used words that people would be able to hear. I have heard no criticism from anyone until now (two days), because I believe his testimony of "the one who has changed his life, Jesus" was pleased to has Rick's presentation of the gospel and prayer for our new president heard by hundreds of milliions of people around the world. There was noththing there that would lead anyone to belive that Rick embraded anything non-Christian. Congratulations to him for his listening to God as he prepared his prayer. To know that he led millions of Christians to pray the Lord's prayer together was absolutely incredible. Thanks be to God for Rick Warren.

Mr. Warren "quoted from the Koran"? Has Dan ever heard of Arabic? Countless Arab Christians would use the same name for Jesus!

We all know Rick Warren hunts with whatever dog is hunting....does that surprise anyone! And to think I taught his book at church until I figured that all out!!! Duh!

Did anyone think the Democrats would ask Warren to give the invocation? Give God the credit for this miracle and let go of your small God.

Oh, good grief!! Rick was simply saying the name of Jesus in several different languages--Hebrew (Yeshua), Arabic (Isa) and Spanish (Jesus, pronounced "hay-soos"). It is so hard to believe that so many of my fellow Americans are so ethnocentric that they wouldn't realize that--and think he was quoting the Koran. If this wasn't so pathetic, it would be funny. (I have many Arabic-speaking CHRISTIAN friends who address Jesus as "Isa" when they pray in their own language!) Get a grip, Dan and others!

Isa is the Arabic Muslim name of Jesus, yet the Arabic Christian name is Yassuh. However, what the Muslims don't know is the name Isa manes Savior the same meaning like Jesus! I don't see a big deal of Rick Warren's prayer, whether Isa or Jesus, it is the name of our Savior.

After being a Christian for 31 years (I'm 39), studying the Word of God, and paying close attention to the garbage going on in governments and in the churches around the world, I can only agree with Dan, Eugene Edwards, and Melinda Clements.

This is what happens when you belong to a church with no sacred traditions and no depth. Jesus is greek poeple, the english language did not exist in the time of Christ. we are such a young country, and we believe that our watered down form of Christianity is all that there is. Look to the east people, there is so much more to the Christian Faith.
The Faith that was handed down to the apostles once and for all; has stood the test of the ages. The Church that Christ said even the gates of Hell could not prevail against is alive and well. look to the east people look to the see of Antioch.

The Disciples did not use the name "Jesus" because they did not speak English. The Apostle John, however, did use the title "Logos" for Christ, which was the pre-Christian pagan philosopher's term. He did this to help the Greeks and other pagans see that Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of their Logos. Paul used an altar to "The Unknown God" to explain who God is. He also quoted a pagan astrological text. Lighten up, people! God is much bigger than organized religion. He has revealed Himself in all nations in some way. But, Christ is the fulfillment, and we should all be brought together now in His Church.

Nothing as cruel as evangelicals judging each other...probably nothing more self-righteous either!

And one wonders why Evangelical Christians are so often mocked.

Yes, Chris, we will all answer to Christ for every word we present- spoken or written. To criticize Rick Warren for not praying to your particular liking, however, does not fulfill the biblical mandate of speaking the truth in love. I suppose I could be critical because Warren used the common Spanish name "Jesus" instead of "Jesucristo". Oh, please! How many of you who are so critical of Rick Warren fervently prayed for him before Tuesday?

This is the problem with Christianity--all Christians seem to want to do is fight. I want a religion that focuses on love, as in love God and love your neighbor as yourself. By the way -- Rick Warren is our neighbor, like it or not.

Oh my gosh!!! I have to ask the enlightened, Shri Ramakrishna what his profound knowledge is based on! Shirly Mclain? Hindu Mysticism? or... Is it just something he likes to believe in order to make himself feel better. I am more than curious to know what benchmark Shri is using to make such baseless statements. As for, "Namaste," in God's eyes, there has NEVER been "us vs. them." We are all equal in his eyes. When will those that look at Christians and see them as narrow minded and closed minded people, ever understand that we simply follow Jesus because as Christians, we know that JESUS is the one who stated who he was, NOT US!. Specifically, "Jesus said unto him, I am the way,the truth and the life. NO MAN comes to the Father except by me." John 14:6. Christians are not making narrow minded claims of exclusivity to be judgmental. Christians are just trying their very best to make sure no one is lost and misses their opportunity to be saved. We know that Jesus Christ loves Shri, and every other person that has an opinion about what they believe. We are all entitled to our own personal & private opinions, but we can't confuse them with our own personal & private truths! One has to be wrong for the other to be right! JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONE revealing there is only one way to the Father!! He wasn't transforming to Krisna or any other form or his doctrine would remain the very same in every form! My prayer for Shri is that God will reveal to him that good or enlightened people don't make it to heaven. Only forgiven people do. As Christians, we accept the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross to save us from the wrath & judgment we all really deserve. It is God's grace that saves us, not anything we could possibly have earned, no matter how hard we might try. Christians simply accept this free gift of salvation as payment in full for all of our earthly transgressions. What the Christian community DOESN'T want to see, is people spending an eternity in hell. But, in God's infinite wisdom, we've all been granted this thing called, "free will," so we each have individual choices to make. Private, personal choices, just between God and us. I for one, would not like to stand before the creator of all things without being fully known in Christ. But, over the years I have learned, (often the hard way), that nothing short of Jesus Christ could possibly save me from God's wrath. I am a sinner and no matter how hard I try, I always seem to fail.

Over the years as I've contemplated God's merciful act of salvation, I've come to realize that the worst part of making the wrong choice about God would be to know, for all eternity, that I had the opportunity to choose wisely, but still ended up in hell. As if being in hell wouldn't be bad enough, I'm sure that I would also have to go there, all the time knowing (whether I believed it on earth or not), that through Jesus's sacrificial act, all my sins had been fully paid for. Whatever personal & private opinions the world may hold, Christians across the globe hold on to a simple truth, "one day every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord."

eugene edwards...you totally miss it all ...a toast to all the jerks who speak on behalf of God homself..

Whatever Americans say,Obama will be blessed since Pastor Rick Warren prayed for him in Jesus name. When did you hear a politicain being prayed overin Jesus Name. I am of the beleif that the very name of Jesus get's people shaken up if they are not in Him.For those of you who are critisicing Pastor Rick for using the name of Jesus in different languages becareful that you dont get caught up with Names of other gods in your life.

Hey guys, the God that the Muslims, Jews, and Christians are all the God that Abraham worshiped.
Only the Christians accept that Jesus was the Son of God but all worship the Father.
I believe that only Jesus is the truth, the way, and the light but I'm also not the one to judge the faith of these others.
I will witness to them but I will not judge them.

as a christian in moslem dominated country Indonesia, I support Pastor Rick Warren in his prayer. Remember that Islam wait for the coming of Isa (Jesus) to help them right now. Jesus is their only hope in the end of age. They believe it.

The name Isa is valid. Isa is from Aramaic and Indian version. This is Eastern version of Jesus.

It is the time to bridge differences, the era of sectarian and dogma is over.

What,exactly,is the purpose of Mr Olsen's comment? Is this comment to be interpreted as wishing Rick Warren well, or is it just another derisive comment???? Comes off rather chikldish to me.

What,exactly,is the purpose of Mr Olsen's comment? Is this comment to be interpreted as wishing Rick Warren well, or is it just another derisive comment???? Comes off rather childish to me.

I am a Jewish Believer in the Lord Y`shua...Son of the Living God and the Messiah for whose return we are waiting for, who changed my life too.Just some comments on Pastor Rick Warren.... When I heard that he would be the one that President Obama had chosen to pray at the Inauguration, I rejoiced.Pastor Rick is a "solid as a rock" Minister of the Word of God. God must have hand picked him to pray at a time such as this...otherwise he would not have been the one favoured for the job. His prayer at the Inauguration was an anointed prayer which touched the world.
God bless Pastor Rick Warren through whom God has worked to save the souls of many and give them a life of purpose through his books.
Carol Lynn Oberg
Swakopmund / NAMIBIA

Reading Shri Ramakrishna's statement reveals once again Hindu's exclusivism; Hinduism neatly subsumes Jesus under its avatar system, refusing to take Him or His claims seriously. Hinduism refuses to acknowledges its own deeply flawed dichotomy--the twin ideas that all is divine and that human beings sin because of "ego" (which by their religion should be part of the divine), but it insists on ignoring Jesus' claims about the human condition. The moral superiority inherent in Shri's claim is condescending precisely because he refuses to believe that he is a guilty sinner before God in need of a Savior. Jesus did not come as a comparative Teacher but as the only Way to know God personally and be reconciled to Him. Jesus' exclusivity defined by His atoning work, not by His comparison with other teachers. These are all claims that Jesus made, not I, and therefore Shri's arguments are with Jesus Himself.

Thanks, Nug, for the perspective. I spend a lot of time in Indonesia and often pray that Isa (Son of God and Savior) will be known by the people there (and all over the Muslim world). I appreciate Rick Warren's contextual approach to praying in Jesus' name with a truly global audience. Based on this forum, American evangelicals seem confused and at odds about his choice to use various forms of the name of the only Son of God, but no doubt the rest of the world got where he was coming from, and maybe that is really what maters.

The conflict here seems to be largely between those like Rick who see that we need to be sensitive to cross cultural language issues and some who are thinking more in English. I worked with Muslims, Chinese, Russians, etc and we Americans must be very sensitive to our use of words that seem right to us but not to other cultures and languages.

For example, some of our favorite English terms for sinner are translated "Criminal" in Chinese. So, we are not trying to call every sinner a criminal and we must find better terms but change the meaning biblically.

I am concerned when I read material like Tim posted on this site. He seems so self-assured that people who do not conform to his particular theology are going to hell. He emphasizes the "wrath & judgment" of God almost to the exclusion of God's love for his creation. He says, "One has to be wrong for the other to be right! " I suppose that he feels he is "right" in his interpretation and thus God has given the knowledge that God is going to condemn everyone else who might have other ideas.

I recently read a devotion on another web site written by a Methodist pastor. He told of having breakfast with several people of different theological persuasions and how that ended up in an argument. One man insisted he was write to the exclusion of anyone else. The pastor said,

"Although Paul maintains that while faith, hope and love abide, 'the greatest of these is love,' I believe that many Protestants have decided that the greatest of these is actually faith—as in "orthodoxy" of one sort or another—and that little else matters."

This pretty well sums up my opinion as well. Evangelicals seem intent on the method that God supposedly uses rather than the love that God has for everyone. This is a love which exceeds all of our limitations that we might attach to it. God is not limited in any way. All things are possible including God loving and saving each person even if they don't get their theology just right. God's salvation is not so much about escaping a place called hell but is about making us better people serving others in the here and now.

Luke 9:49-50 NLT
..."Master, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop ecause he isn't in our group." But Jesus said. "Don't stop him! Anyone who is not against you is for you."

If Jesus as savior and Lord is proclaimed then what can be wrong?

I'm glad that some Christians here have the sense of knowing what's it like in other parts of the world. I live in a country that professes Islam as it's official religion and it has banned Malay bibles and publications time and time again simply because it uses the words Allah and preaches "Isa". What i'm saying is that they have an enormous insecurity and fear that more converts will rise from this exposure.
When i heard Rick mention "Isa", i was instantly struck [and rejoiced!!] by the thought that this Good News of Jesus is going far n wide to these people who have been so, so trapped and shielded by goverments and religious edicts. So rather than argue about this use of words and fall into "snares"...rejoice and pray that this precious seed will bring fruit amongs these most hard to reach peoples!

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