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December 22, 2009

What Baby Jesus Symbolizes for Obama

President Obama visited a Boys & Girls Club in Washington, D.C. yesterday to deliver some cookies and talk about the baby Jesus.

When Obama said it's important to remember why Christmas, one of the children piped up and said, "I know!" Obama asked, "Do you know?" The child said, "The birth of baby Jesus." Here's how Obama responded, according to a transcript provided by the White House.

The birth of baby Jesus, and what he symbolizes for people all around the world is the possibility of peace and people treating each other with respect. And so I just hope that spirit of giving that's so important at Christmas, I hope all of you guys remember that as well. You know, it's not just about getting gifts but it's also doing something for other people. So being nice to your mom and dad and grandma and aunties and showing respect to people -- that's really important too, that's part of the Christmas spirit, don't you think? Do you agree with me?

He asked the children if they had an interesting observation.

Child: I know why we give gifts to other people.
Obama: Why is that?
Child: Because the three wise men gave gifts to baby Jesus.
Obama: That's exactly right. ... You know, the three wise men, if you think about it, here are these guys, they have all this money, they've got all this wealth and power, and yet they took a long trip to a manger just to see a little baby. And it just shows you that just because you're powerful or you're wealthy, that's not what's important. What's important is what's -- the kind of spirit you have.
So I hope everybody has a spirit of kindness and thoughtfulness, and everybody is really thinking about how can they do for other people -- treating them well, because that's really the spirit of Christmas.

Comments

It's not that any of what he said shouldn't be done. Yes, we need to seek for peace and to give to others but what was and is the 'real' meaning of this child in the manger? Sadly many pastors throughout America will be giving the same kind of message during Christmas. But I have to remind myself that Obama is a President and not a Pastor or Evangelist. Oh well....

The president's comments are disappointing to say the least; and he professes to be a Christian! Jesus came to teach us to be nice and generous? Please! This is an utterly secularized and sentimentalized perspective on the incarnation; it's pathetic. The president should know that Jesus came to die, to atone for human sin, not just to be a moral example of charitable giving. It's pathetic and embarrassing. Basil's comment is right on the mark, unfortunately, that so many pastors will be preaching this shallow moralism come Friday the 25th.

Not to be confrontational, but I think it's equally disturbing that people believe the only thing Jesus had to offer was to die. Jesus started teaching the moment he was born, and part of what he taught was what the president said.

Would you have preached a sermon to a bunch of little kids, when you didn't have any knowledge of their level of understanding? Come on, most of you would have said something like what the president said. I'm tired of people picking apart everything that he says because they don't like him. We are supposed to be Christians, after all, and part of being Christian is to be gracious and kind to others. What was he supposed to say--"Repent or you're going to hell?"

Just curious - Did President Bush ever preach the Gospel message to children when reading to them or visiting them? Do we expect our President to be a Pastor? Just curious.

"What was he supposed to say--'Repent or you're going to hell?'" If he is a follower of Jesus as he claims to be, I would have expected him to say what any Christ follower would say: we celebrate the birth of Jesus because he was born to save us from our sins. I have known of 3-year-olds who could understand this. Many times at my church, kids between the ages of 3 and 5 testify that they have accepted Christ as their Savior. It doesn't matter what the children's backgrounds are or their level of understanding - any Christian who has the opportunity to share the gospel with people of any age group has a God-given mandate to do so. It's right in the Great Commission. I agree that an integral part of being a Christian is loving our neighbors, but it doesn't stop there. If we think that our primary calling as believers is to be nice to people, we are missing out on most of what Jesus said during his earthly ministry. After all, Jesus spoke about hell more than any other topic he addressed. But I guess a lot of people would say that wasn't very nice of him.

Thank God President Obama shared with those children what he shared; hopefully it makes an indelible impression on them. One of the most neglected and least practiced teachings of Jesus Christ (especially among highly politicized folk identifying themselves as Christians), the real nub of his message, is: "Treat others the way you want to be treated" (Luke 6:31). How little attention the Golden Rule receives today, in circles that ought (and claim) to know better! Kudos to our Chief Executive for stressing that power and wealth aren't important either -- something else today's "Christian" politicos ought to recognize.

Better re-read those Gospels, Julie: you've missed something incredibly important. Jesus spoke about love more than any other topic he addressed -- not hell. That's why we know his message as the "Good News." Got it?

"Better re-read those Gospels, Julie: you've missed something incredibly important. Jesus spoke about love more than any other topic he addressed -- not hell. That's why we know his message as the 'Good News.' Got it?"

When doing a word search for "love" in the gospels, I noticed that the word appears in many different contexts, including references to the Pharisees' love for recognition and places of honor, the Father's love for the Son, the love of money, and so on. Jesus even told the Pharisees that the love of God was not in their hearts. So when we see the word "love" in the gospels, we need to understand that it doesn't always occur in the context of being "nice" to everyone or avoiding offending people; in fact, Jesus was quite harsh in his dealings with the Pharisees and minced no words with them. The message of the good news is not about some fuzzy, feel-good type of "love" as the world understands the concept; it is about a redeeming, sacrificial love, embodied in the Person of Christ, who came to earth for one purpose: to save sinners from hell. So yes, Joe, I got it - thanks! And have a blessed Christmas!

I just find it amusing that giving gifts started long before the Christian version of Christmas. A quick search on Wikipedia reveals that gift giving is a carryover from Saturnalia. I find it even more amusing how people get their panties all in a wad over Obama's salvation just because his faith sounds a bit more liberal than their own. How much more egocentric can you get to think that your exact version of Christianity is 100% correct and that everyone should be just like you, and if they're not, you call their entire faith into question? Interesting. I used to be like that, and now, I really don't understand my thought process.

Ptaise the Lord that the blood of Jesus covers all our egocentricities and every other sin of those who are washed in the blood of the Lamb! Merry Christmas!

Would you rather have your pastor as president.

The Meaning of the Christmas Season:
Love - God so loved us he Gifted us His Son
Jesus - Taught of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", "Turn the Other Cheek", Forgive 70 times 7 times", Welcoming the lost lamb, the lost son openly back into your heart... so many images of God's Boundless Love and Forgiveness
God - knew we humans would mess up this ultimate "good thing" like we'd done with all of his other gifts, and He designed it such that in Jesus' sacrifice of himself at our hands, the total forgiveness of all our sins would become possible

Even in the face of our continually turning to sin, even in the face of our destruction of His Son, God gives us an opportunity for a "Clean Slate" and path to Salvation

There is no greater Gift than His Boundless Love.

This is why we say Merry Christmas, why we Celebrate His Birth. This is why we share gifts with one another, as symbols of our love for one another, as symbols of Gods gift of Jesus to us, as symbols of Jesus' gift of His Life for Our Salvation.

And, we Celebrate the "Peace On Earth and Goodwill Towards All Men" brought by the unifying power of God's Boundless Love.

Praise God for President Obama, and sharing the gospel of Christ to the little Children. He could have alternated the word "Christmas" for "Holidays", he could have avoided saying the "J" word completely. That he would take the time to speak with little children on their level about respecting their elders (which is the FIRST commandment), among other things.

(Ephesians 6:1-2) Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. Honour thy father and mother; which is the **first commandment** with promise; )

That he would take time out to give them a Word means alot. So many Christians don't evangelize at all. How many "repent or you're going to hell" Christians do you know? Do you do it? on your job, at the grocery store? at the car wash? at Church?

Ephesians 4:11 says that "he gave ***some to be*** apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;" not everybody and praise God for that, because we all don't have the anointing to do it all and be effective.

I think these are great quotes from Obama. I know many evangelicals are going to say that he's wrong and that Jesus came to die for our sins. They are correct that Jesus came to die for our sins, but Jesus also came to reinforce the Old Testament teaching on how we treat one another.

The great flaw of Evangelicals is that they think God put us on this earth to see who can make it to heaven. The reality is that God's primary desire is that we love one another as ourselves (and also have relationship with Him), and it's only because we fall short that we need a Savior; and despite His sacrifice, we must repent (that means turn away from our selfish living) in order to be saved.

Jesus says that those who claim His name, prophecy in His name, etc., and still do evil (live selfishly) will not gain eternal life. And Hebrews 10:26 says that "for those who go on sinning willfully after coming to a knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment..."

merry Christmas to all.... Phillipians 2:3-11

Thank you God for a President that actually believe that their is a God. Thank you for your grace and mercy that you haven't destroyed this world like in the days of Noah. Thank you that you still look down from heaven and see some good in this evil, hateful, and selfish world of mankind, and still bless us with people who loves the Christmas story. Bless this world with the joyful songs of your Holy Angels. Peace on earth, good will toward men, even if it is for just a moment.

Merry Christmas!
Obama's right that Jesus came to spread "the possibility of peace and people treating each other with respect," in part. Yet that peace for Jesus is rooted in a relationship with God, as K. Scott Schaeffer wrote. This is another evidence of Obama's kind of Christianity, which emphasizes the second greatest commandment (love your neighbor) without the first (love God).
May you find peace with people, but most of all peace with God this holiday season.
-Brendan

Thank you God for a President that actually believe that their is a God.

Yeah, but which one?

Thank you for your grace and mercy that you haven't destroyed this world like in the days of Noah.

God said that He would not destroy the world in another flood.

Further, He said that He wouldn't destroy a place if, in that place, there were a remnant of Righteous.

Thank you that you still look down from heaven and see some good in this evil, hateful, and selfish world of mankind...

He doesn't recognize anything that arises out of self-righteousness. In other words, nobody can do good enough to be saved. God doesn't grade on a curve.

... and still bless us with people who loves [sic] the Christmas story.

Just go around your neighborhood and see how many houses are displaying the REAL Christmas story. Not many, I'll bet.

In my neighborhood, outta a hundred houses displaying Christmassy stuff, there may be three with any indication that today is a day of celebration of the birth of Jesus.

Peace on earth, good will toward men, even if it is for just a moment.

Jesus said that He didn't come to give peace on Earth, rather a division. [Luke 12:51]

Obama's right that Jesus came to spread "the possibility of peace and people treating each other with respect," in part.

No, he's not right and he's not correct.

Jesus came to give the Message of God's Offer of Reconciliation and the conditions and terms of that offer. He knew that Message would separate the goats from the sheep.

Yet that peace for Jesus is rooted in a relationship with God, as K. Scott Schaeffer wrote.

This "peace and good Will toward men" is an offer from God, through Christ. It is not a suggestion that there be peace and good Will toward men between men. It is not through God that we worship Christ, rather through Christ that we worship God. That's the Deal.

This is another evidence of Obama's kind of Christianity, which emphasizes the second greatest commandment (love your neighbor) without the first (love God).

This is true. Sadly, it's true for most of those claiming to be Christian today. They forget the First Commandment of Christ without which the Second is null and void. This is reiterated in James 4:7; you can't resist the Devil loving your neighbor.

May you find peace with people, but most of all peace with God this holiday season.

The Offer of Peace comes from God, not from men. Peace between men will come when all men receive, through Christ, the Offer of Peace from God first.

I don't agree with this Saturnalia thing. Actually the sentence needs citation on Wiki which means that it may not be 100% true and that nobody took the time to verify it probably because of controversial. It makes no sense that Christmas came from this holiday. Gifts are given for millions of reasons and giving of gifts was a small part of Saturnalia from what I read. It seemed to me that role reversal was more common.

Like most Christian ideas, and one of the things that makes Christianity great is that Christianity is adaptable and can still contain 100% of it's message. I'm sure that Christmas is a mix of all kinds of non Christian ideas. But Christians celebrate it and we made it what it is; Jews haven't, Muslims haven't, Buddhists haven't, and as for Atheists or those who don't understand or believe in Christianity all the ideas they teach their kids are promoted into society out from the
tongue of Churches, and the people inside them. Jesus is the reason Christmas is what it is not Baby Jesus but Jesus the Man is and that's that.

I am surprised by Obamas answer but he def tried to
keep Christmas a separate thing from Jesus. He talked
about how Jesus had similar ideas that are celebrated
by Christmas but that they weren't necessarily Jesus's. Anyway what he said is o.k. with me but it's wrong.

If I hear one more Christian say Christmas isn't our
holiday, and that it is other peoples holiday, and that we should respect them by not mentioning Jesus I am going to puke. Can people be that dumb? Do a little research there isn't much evidence to support
any other culture being the roots of Christmas. We made it what it is. That's a fact if Christians stopped celebrating it it would fade away.

So, that's three terrorist attacks this year, on the Obammy watch.

Whew! I thought we were all serving the same Master.
Why critize? Lets do what he taught and thats to love one another. I don't think he would be happy with some of the attiudes flying on this blog.
He's the Judge, not us.

I thought we were all serving the same Master. -- Posted by: Pam at December 28, 2009

Well, you thought wrong, I guess. Even too many of those claiming to be "Christian" serve other than the Master of our faith, Christ. That's why only few will find the gate. It's why He will save only a remnant. they serve Him with their lips, not with their heart.

Why critize? -- Posted by: Pam at December 28, 2009

It depends on whether a person is criticizing outta his unrighteous self, or his Righteous self. The one who merely criticizes does so outta his unrighteous self. The one who teaches refers to a line of scriptural thought.

Lets [sic] do what he taught and thats [sic] to love one another. -- Posted by: Pam at December 28, 2009

God is love. The Word is God. Therefore, the Word is love.

God is a spirit. Jesus said, "[M]y words, they are spirit." He also said that His words are life.

and life are in the power of the tongue.
So, the spirits are in words. Words of blessing, or words of curses. God told you to choose life. Words of life.

Thus, the words of life and love are in the Word of God. They are not in the words of men. They are not in worldly words.

Jesus came to bring the Message of God's offer of Reconciliation. For what? For Salvation. What motivated God? Love, for one thing. Out of love, He gave His Word. Out of love, those who are born again give His Word.

So, biblical "love" is "unselfish concern for the Salvation of others, as much concern for others' Salvation as we have for our own." Those who are born again love others by giving them the Word -- that is, the very "thing" that will save them. Worldly love will not save anyone.

I don't think he would be happy with some of the attiudes flying on this blog. -- Posted by: Pam at December 28, 2009

Like what?

He's the Judge, not us [sic]. -- Posted by: Pam at December 28, 2009

And, yet, He told us -- that is, those who are born again -- to judge Righteous judgment.

So, that's three terrorist attacks this year, on the Obammy watch. -- Posted by: Mr. Incredible at December 28, 2009
Kind of like useless partisanship -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 28, 2009

We were safe for eight years.

Now, in the first year of this administration, already three attacks. That isn't partisanship, any more than people like you were partisan during the eight years of the Bush Administration.

Several comments removed for the following reasons:


1) Off topic (stray from discussing the article)


2) Attacking the person rather than attacking the topic


3) Comment contained content which harassed, victimized, intimidated or degraded others on the basis of race or religion.

Friendly reminder: Comment on the article and do not stray from the topic. Be courteous when disagreeing with other comments. Do not be personally offended if someone disagrees with your viewpoint. Logically explain why you disagree without name calling or demeaning others.


May you all have a blessed new year,


BJ
CT Community

==Nobody, no one, knows when Jesus was born. Not even the Year is known, much less the date. ==

Irrelevant. The date -- a year is part of the date thing -- has nothing to do with the spiritual journey. So, even though we cannot know the date, it doesn't matter anyway, and not knowing doesn't change the fact of His being born, bringing with Him the Message of God's Offer of Reconciliation between Him and Man.

==These words from Obama …“You know, it's not just about getting gifts but it's also doing something for other people.” ==

Where's Christ -- the focus of the Christmas celebration -- in that statement?

Let's not forget that, according to Islam, the son of a Muslim is a Muslim. Maybe THAT's why. That would explain his not remembering Christ before anything else.

Where he says, "[I]t's also doing something for other people," what does THAT mean? Do what for other people, in the context of the Word?

"Where he says, "[I]t's also doing something for other people," what does THAT mean? Do what for other people, in the context of the Word?"

It means what Jesus tells us all the laws and the prophets boil down to: Love God and Thy Neighbor. It means there will be goats and there will be sheep, and we will find ourselves in one or the other groups based on how we treat the sick, the poor, the marginalized.

I am very glad that the President didn't tell those kids the latest in Christian thinking: the things they do and the actions they take don't matter to God at all... all they need to do is believe in the correct doctrine and they can sin, sin, sin away.

As James tell us, if we don't have works our faith is dead. Even though we say we have faith, if we aren't doing things for other people, as Obama illustrated, we really don't.

==...nobody, no one knows the date of Jesus birth Not even the year is know.==

So what? We celebrate His birth on 25 December. We don't need the exact date.

== Now I would like to challenge anyone to prove that Jesus was born in the equivalent of our December 25th.==

No need. It's irrelevant. All we need is to celebrate it on 25 December, and that takes care of it.

== By God not even the Calendar they were using then, is the same we use now.==

Irrelevant. See answers above.

== How does anyone knows that?==

We know He was born and lived and ministered. That's all we need to know.

==...where did Jesus say to his Disciples, Apostles, followers to do "righteous judgment".==

John 7:24

=="Where he says, "[I]t's also doing something for other people," what does THAT mean? Do what for other people, in the context of the Word?"

It means what Jesus tells us all the laws and the prophets boil down to: Love God and Thy Neighbor.==

Still haven't told us what his statement, "doing for other people," means, biblically.

== It means there will be goats and there will be sheep, and we will find ourselves in one or the other groups based on how we treat the sick, the poor, the marginalized. ==

Treat them how, biblically?

==As James tell us, if we don't have works our faith is dead. Even though we say we have faith, if we aren't doing things for other people, as Obama illustrated, we really don't. ==

Doing what things, biblically?

Let's not forget that, according to Islam, the son of a Muslim is a Muslim. Maybe THAT's why. That would explain his not remembering Christ before anything else. -- Posted by: Mr. Incredible at December 29, 2009

==This absolutely and without a doubt an Anti-Christ statement, a heresy and a false doctrine of the worst type.==

Actually, it isn't. Obammy didn't mention Christ on the birthday of Christ.

It is fully Christian to say the truth that Islam says that the son of a Muslim is Muslim. I'm just telling you what Islam says. Obammy's father is/was Muslim. You do the math.

== God has all the Power in Heaven and in Earth to undo that.==

Undo what?

=="Where he says, "[I]t's also doing something for other people," what does THAT mean? Do what for other people, in the context of the Word?"

It means what Jesus tells us all the laws and the prophets boil down to: Love God and Thy Neighbor.==

Biblically, what does it mean to "love" my neighbor? Did Jesus love the Devil in the wilderness?

If works outta faith shows faith alive, what works, biblically?

=="Where he says, "[I]t's also doing something for other people," what does THAT mean? Do what for other people, in the context of the Word?"

It means what Jesus tells us all the laws and the prophets boil down to: Love God and Thy Neighbor.==

How, biblically?

How am I to love my neighbor AS God loves me? Like what does that biblical "love" look? Like what Jesus did? What did Jesus do outta love? HE GAVE THE WORD OF GOD AS GOD GAVE US THE WORD! We give God's love by giving others the Word Which is God Who is love.

Let's not forget that, according to Islam, the son of a Muslim is a Muslim. Maybe THAT's why. That would explain his not remembering Christ before anything else.
-- Posted by: Mr. Incredible at December 29, 2009

==This absolutely and without a doubt an Anti-Christ statement, a heresy and a false doctrine of the worst type.==

Give is THE line of scriptural thought that says so.

== God has all the Power in Heaven and in Earth to undo that. ==

Not without Knowledge of the Truth AND repentance.

== God has all the Power in Heaven and in Earth to undo that. ==

Not without Knowledge of the Truth AND repentance. He has the power, but He won't act against His Covenant with Man.

!!

BTW when Jesus spoke in Mat. 7:12 He was among a friendly crowd of his followers, and most of his Apostles and disciples. That was not the situation in Jo. 7:24 when He was in the Temple courts confronted by hostile groups, who were already plotting to kill Him.


..

We know He was born and lived and ministered. That's all we need to know.Posted by: Mr. Incredible at December 29, 2009

A half truth... -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

Except that YOU said that no one knows the date of the birth of Jesus. THAT'S the context of my statement.

Then, you go on to state something that's irrelevant to the statement you made -- that is, that no one knows the date of the birth of Jesus:

The FULL Truth and we need to know the whole Truth, is that he also Died as an atonement for our Sins. The Full Truth, the whole TRUTH that we NEED to know is that he also arose from the Dead. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

As I say, while THAT is true, it has nothing to do with the statement you made -- that is, that no one knows the date of the birth of Jesus. In THAT context, my statement is also fully true -- that is, that it doesn't matter that no one knows, only that we he was born, lived and ministered. It would be nice if you would keep your contexts straight.

==...where did Jesus say to his Disciples, Apostles, followers to do "righteous judgment".==Posted by: Mr. Incredible at December 29, 2009

Uhhh, I didn't make that statement. YOU did, and I answered:

John 7:24.

False, a doctrinal error, a Legalist attempt to comfound the issues and distract from the Facts that the Pres. is correct when he avoided going futher into a Tradition that is nothing more and nothing less than Traditions of men. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

Garbage.

Traditions promoted mainly and mostly by powerful Economical and Financial Interests, who among others invented fictitious characters like Satan Claus, the elves and the Rheindeers pulling a sleighd [sic]. As the only way to perpetuate the charade by appealing to fuzzy feelings and emotional strings. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

What-a train wreck of a statement.

He was NOT speaking to his Disciples, the Apostle were NOT with him at that very moment. He was Teaching in the Temple Courts Jo. 7:28 -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

Irrelevant. His words to anybody are His words to us. He couldn't tell them to judge Righteous judgment at once telling us not to judge Righteous judgment.

Therefore these people to whom the Law was given could and should have been Judging fairly, but were Not. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

"Righteous judgment" is judgment according to the Word, not according to worldly standard. It has nothing to do with what is fair. "Fair" depends on where you sit. That is worldly.

The essence of what the Pres. said is found here: MT 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

Do what unto others?

All of these attempts to mix the Law with Grace. Is nothing more than the rants of a new breed of Neo-christians of the new age. Who grew up under the banner of slogans like "christian nation", but are biblically illiterates -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

This must be trash day cuz that's more garbage.

BTW when Jesus spoke in Mat. 7:12 He was among a friendly crowd of his followers, and most of his Apostles and disciples. That was not the situation in Jo. 7:24 when He was in the Temple courts confronted by hostile groups, who were already plotting to kill Him. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

Irrelevant. Christ is the same yesterday, today and for ever. Therefore, what He told them then, He tells us now. He told them to judge Righteous judgment. So, He tells us to judge Righteous judgment. It's as simple as that.

God is love.

The Word is God.

The Word is love.

God is a spirit. "[M]y words, they are spirit."

Those who are born again give God's love by giving His Word.

So, biblical "love" is unselfish concern for the Salvation of others, as much concern for THEIR Salvation as you have for your own.

THAT'S the essence of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. You give them the Word of Salvation cuz you would want them to give you the Word of Salvation.

I would also like to know where did Jesus say to his Disciples, Apostles, followers to do "righteous judgment". -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

Then, you say:

He was NOT speaking to his Disciples, the Apostle were NOT with him at that very moment. He was Teaching in the Temple Courts Jo. 7:28 -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

In your first statement, you also refer to His "followers." You disregard that in your second statement.

In any case, whether somebody was with Him, or not with him physically, is irrelevant. Even when they were not with Him, they "walked" with Him, given Amos 3:3.

We, today, are included among those who follow Him. We agree with what He said. What He said -- that is, to judge Righteous judgment -- applies today to His followers.

False, a doctrinal error, a Legalist attempt to comfound the issues and distract from the Facts that the Pres. is correct when he avoided going futher into a Tradition that is nothing more and nothing less than Traditions of men. Traditions promoted mainly and mostly by powerful Economical and Financial Interests, who among others invented fictitious characters like Satan Claus, the elves and the Rheindeers pulling a sleighd. As the only way to perpetuate the charade by appealing to fuzzy feelings and emotional strings. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

That reads like a propaganda statement outta the old Soviet Union, or, even, outta the Obammy Administration.

He was NOT speaking to his Disciples, the Apostle were NOT with him at that very moment. He was Teaching in the Temple Courts Jo. 7:28 -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 29, 2009

Those, today, who are born again are not "physically" with Him either. That, in itself, does not mean that He is not talking to them.

By the way, if He was teaching in the Temple Courts, He was teaching, and He was teaching all who would hear. His teaching is directed to all, not to some. After all, that's why His words -- "My words, they are spirit" -- apply to those of us who, today, are born again.

Salero, No where in this article does it state we are celebrating the specific date of Jesus' birth. Rather, Dec 25th is set aside as a day to remember that Jesus was born. One could just as easily set aside another date and it would not change the meaning of the event.

I am deleting your comment without malice simply because it implies that the Staff of CT are trying to prove a date for the birth of Jesus which has absolutely nothing to do with Ms. Pulliam's article.

Happy New Year to you and yours (even if you cannot be sure of the actual date of a new year).

BJ
Community, CT

Removed:
My challenge is still up to Anyone, anybody out there. Even anyone in the Staff of CT who can prove in an Unequivocal manner, that would leave not the slightest shadow of a doubt, and that can bring and show at least 5 pieces of Evidence, any Evidence; That Jesus was born in a date equivalent to our present Calendar day of December the 25th.

My challenge is still up to Anyone, anybody out there. Even anyone in the Staff of CT who can prove in an Unequivocal manner, that would leave not the slightest shadow of a doubt, and that can bring and show at least 5 pieces of Evidence, any Evidence; That Jesus was born in a date equivalent to our present Calendar day of December the 25th. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

It doesn't matter what the actual date is. What matters is that we celebrate His birth on 25 December. That's all that matters.

I would donate $10,000.00 to CT or give it to anyone who can prove beyond anyones doubt that the 25th of our Calendar day of December was in Fact the actual birth date of Jesus of Nazaret the Son of God. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

Of course, since you know that nobody will be able to prove it, you know that you won't lose $10,000.

At the same time, it doesn't matter when He was ACTUALLY born. The celebration is on 25 December. We don't need to bog ourselves down with foolish questions like this.

Such proof or Evidence. Should show that some Incredible people, are really celebrating the birth of Jesus as they claim they are without proof also. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

We don't need proof that the celebration of the birth of is on 25 December. It just is. The proof is in the fact of the celebrations themselves.

If this incredibles without credibility are unable to prove their claims. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

Lookit any calendar. Christmas falls on 25 December. That's proof that we celebrate the birth of Jesus on 25 December.

Now, ask anyone who works whether they get that day off. They will tell you that they do. The reason for the day off this Christmas. That day -- that is, 25 December -- is the day of celebration of the birth of Jesus.

Then, call a government office and ask them why they were closed on 25 December. They will tell you that they were closed for the Christmas holiday.

Then in my opinion they are Compulsive, Congenital, Pathetical and Pathological Liars, and are not celebrating Jesus birth at all. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

Well, we celebrate the birth of Jesus on 25 December. It's not necessary that you agree with it. We celebrate it anyway, with, or without you.

Neither do celebrate his death... -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

Of course we don't. No one celebrates a death.

... and especially HIS RESURRECTION! Which btw is the only thing we are told to celebrate. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

On Good Friday, we observe His death. On what is called "Easter," we celebrate the Resurrection.

Would like to see also proof that Jesus is/was American by birth. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

There are all kinds of theories out there by people who would have to be sitting in a room with open paint thinner cans in order to say the things that they do.

Would like to see Unequivocal proof that an Utopical place on Earth can be called a "christian nation" -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

What the Devil is "Utopical"?

English is not your first language, is it?

Especially a Nation where more than 16,000 murders were commited, and more than 11 million crimes of all types were reported in 2007. -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

They were not committed by true Christians. They honor Him with their lips, not with their hearts.

Can a Nation of this kind be in Fact a "christian nation"? -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

Despite your attempt to heap guilt by association upon us, yes.

I doubt it! -- Posted by: Salero21 at December 30, 2009

So what?

Gee, you can claim that no one knows the right, correct, exact, accurate, precise, right-on-the-money, no-doubt-about-it, actual date on which Jesus was born. WOW! I know I'm impressed!

However, as I say, no one is required know. It's not necessary to know the right, correct, exact, accurate, precise, right-on-the-money, no-doubt-about-it, actual date on which Jesus was born in order to celebrate His birth and to continue on the spiritual journey. All we have-ta do is recognize THAT He was born, lived and ministered. On 25 December, we celebrate THAT as fact, no matter when the birth occurred.

I don't care whether the right, correct, exact, accurate, precise, right-on-the-money, no-doubt-about-it, actual date of the birth of Jesus was on 11 June.

I don't care if the right, correct, exact, accurate, precise, right-on-the-money, no-doubt-about-it, actual date of the birth of Jesus is on 2,000,160,000 in the year of the rooster on the Chinese calendar.

I don't care whether you made your own calendar and, according to YOUR calculations and wishes, He was actually born in some other time continuum on Jupiter.

I don't care whether the Zulu tribe thinks it has it all figured out by scribbling dates with sticks on dirt, or on water buffalo hides.

Here, on Earth, we STILL celebrate the birth of Jesus on 25 December on the calendar commonly used by most of the civilized world. People schedule their activities on anticipation of having that day off. Government offices are closed. No mail is delivered. 25 December is all we need to know.

Anywho...


Obammy says:

The birth of baby Jesus, and what he symbolizes for people all around the world is the possibility of peace and people treating each other with respect.

Utterly incorrect.

Jesus, Himself, said that He came to bring a division, although He brought God's Message of an Offer of Reconciliation with Man. God, having been at war with Man, wanted peace, even though He didn't start the war. The "Peace and Good Will toward men" had to do with a peace offering from God coupled with His Good Will.

Obammy continues:

And so I just hope that spirit of giving that's so important at Christmas...

Giving what?

Jesus' Mission was to publish God's Message of the Offer of Reconciliation. The mission of those who are born again is to do the same thing. It has nothing to do with worldly giving.

Continue, Obammy:

... it's not just about getting gifts but it's also doing something for other people.

Yes, giving them the Word of God.

Pres. B. Obama's actions were simply political correctness and window dressing.