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April 15, 2010

Judge Rules National Day of Prayer Unconstitutional

A federal judge has ruled that the National Day of Prayer, observed the first Thursday of May, is unconstitutional.

In Madison, Wisconsin, U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb ruled in favor of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a group of atheists and agnostics that brought a lawsuit against former President George W. Bush's administration. According to a 2008 Associated Press article, Shirley Dobson, chairwoman of the National Day of Prayer Task Force at the time, was named in the lawsuit.

"It is unfortunate that this court failed to understand that a day set aside for prayer for the country represents a time-honored tradition that embraces the First Amendment, not violates it," Jay Sekulow, chief counsel of the the American Center for Law and Justice, said in a statement.

In 1952, President Truman signed into law a Congressional resolution establishing a National Day of Prayer. In 1988, Congress named the first Thursday in May the official date for the National Day of Prayer.

Update: The Justice Department is appealing the decision.

Comments

Next comes Christmas and Easter.

What a stupid judge and a stupid decision. A Day of Prayer does NOT MAKE ANYONE PRAY....if people don't want to, then don't. Someone should slap this judge silly.

what a sad day for America. They are surely taking away all our freedoms. The leadership in this country makes me sick.

Finally. It's time people remember that government recognition of religion is prohibited by the first amendment. Next, can we please stop putting federal money into church schools? Thank you.

Note to Judge: God wins in the end.

Note to people upset about this: God wins in the end.

Rainne, the first amendment says that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." In other words, it says that no religion shall be favored over another. A common atheist misconception (or dream, whichever the case may be) is that it really means that there is to be no involvement between religion and government, whatsoever.

Rainie-I challenge you to look up the first amendment and to actually read it. It does not say what you apparently think it says.

Also, more news, federal money doesn't go to church schools. Most parents have to struggle to send their kids to a Christian school because they have to pay for that as well as their real estate taxes which go to public schools, where their children do not attend. It is a sacrifice, but well worth it.

The education is far better, and actually, much less money is spent on the education per child compared to the public schools, yet the scores of the children in the Christian school are much higher than the kids in the public school.

When our oldest child, who is now in her 20's, was about to start kindergarten, we checked out both the local public school, which is supposedly highly rated, and compared the various Christian schools in the area. In the Christian schools, the kindergarten kids were reading books for themselves. In the public schools, the kids were allowed to walk around aimlessly while their teacher tried to read to them. We were told that the teachers are not allowed to discipline them as much as to even be able to tell them to "sit down and listen to this interesting story about the pony and the little children."

There were huge differences, and although it was tough financially, we thought money spent on our children's education was one of the most important things we could do for them, and we're thankful that we were able to provide that for them.

My kids were in the local public school soccer league, and had many friends from our neighborhood, their soccer team and of course their school.

Again, please read the amendment! In layman's terms, it says that the government cannot make the people be a particular denomination, and that it may NOT IMPEDE THE FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION, infringe on the freedom of speech or the freedom of the press, or prohibit the right to freely assemble. It PROTECTS freedom of religion, not freedom FROM religion, like the liberals try to interpret it.

Thank you Barabara for your comment, agree with you! Wow such a sad day in America. The athiest have their right to believe or not to believe as we have our right to believe in God or not, it is our freedom OF religion. We will just have to PRAY!!! God always prevails over evil no different this time, we already know God wins in the very end. We can still pray and celebrate the day as we choose to no one can take that right away from us. The Constitution is slowly being re-written and some people do not even realize it. People need to wake up. We need God BACK in America today. We as christians need to PRAY for our nation.

It does NOT mean that religion and government must be completely separated. It says that the government may not limit my expression of religion. The first amendment means that I can freely practice my religion on public school grounds, or anywhere I wish, hold Bible studies on school grounds, and help lead Bible clubs, if kids are interested.

When Thomas Jefferson was President of the United States, he was also the superintendent of the Washington DC public schools. As superintendent, he insisted that a Bible be in every classroom. This is just one small example that shows how very far we have strayed from what the founders intended. You're wrong saying that they must be completely separated, that is NOT what the amendment says. It says the government should stay out of religion, NOT the other way around!

We have freedom of religion, not freedon FROM religion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a National Day of Prayer, or having a chaplain in Congress, or having a monument with the 10 commandments.

When Jefferson founded the University of Virginia, he had included in the new University a Divinity School. Just as long as the school did not favor one Christian creed over another, he had no problem with public universities instructing students in religion. I mention "Christian creed" because that while Jefferson believed in the freedom of conscience for all, in the culture of his day, public religious instruction meant Christian instruction. The Founding Father who coined the phrase "a wall of seperation between church and state" did not advocate the total seperation of religious activity and the public sphere. He used that phrase in a letter to Baptists in Danbury, Conn. assuring them that the Government would not favor one set of beliefs over another.

God said, if you are not for me you are against me. Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Mark 9:42-43..."And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched" (judge Crabb).

NOW ATHEISTS, Jesus said, "whosoever come", in the book of Revelations,(Revelations 22:18b), if any man shall add unto these things, GOD shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. Jesus invites you to have eternal life, GOD excepts those who want to be forgiven thru the blood of His Son, however GOD defends His Son for those who reject the cross and His Son. ATHEISTS, good luck with that FIRE THING. There are no votes or decision making meetings in HELL WITH SATAN, that goes for you to as well Obama.

My King is the Bright and Morning Star, Revelations 22:16, He said so, and I except His word on the internet for every one to see. Atheists, you are making one huge mistake... God said, "its a terrible thing to stand before a living God" (2Cor). "Whosoever come". Father, remember this comment in your Kingdom.

GOD! Have Mercy on America!!! "FORGIVE THEM, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO"

I assume this judge believes that acknowledging a day in which our society respects prayer is equal to the establishment of religion.

I wonder how some of these judges are even sworn in; you know the "so help me God" part; if they can't acknowledge a higher power that civil government even submits to it's impossible for such a person to understand their responsibility to protect a moral society.

The judge who made the ruling with those who brought the suit to secure that ruling are all guilty of treason against the constitutional rights of those who participated in the day of prayer. I live about a 55 minute drive down the road from where one of my anestors took part in a Battle of the American Revolution. If the veterans of that conflict knew how the freedoms they fought for are being used to deny their descendants the freedom to practice their faith, they would rise up from the grave and deal with such abusers even as they dealt with them 229 years ago. Push is coming to shove, and the Chistians are going to have to stand up and be counted

Obama still plans to recognize the National Day of Prayer. Anyway, I don't see how a judge declaring a National Day of Prayer unconstitutional takes away our freedom to gather and pray. We don't need an official declaration from our government that says we should pray on a particular day. It seems to me it is the job of the Church to call Christians to come together in prayer, not the job of the White House or Congress. Many Christians don't feel the government should carry out the Biblical mandate to care for the poor, so why should we expect the government to call the Church to pray?

I'm a Muslim. I feel terribly sad for my Christian brothers in America. Enough is enough. Please stand against this satanic decision. You have the Almighty with you.

First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

36 USC 119 - Sec. 119. National Day of Prayer (119 36:169h. Apr. 17, 1952, ch. 216, 66 Stat. 64; May 5, 1988, Pub. L. 100-307, 102 Stat. 456.):

The President shall issue each year a proclamation designating the first Thursday in May as a National Day of Prayer on which the people of the United States may turn to God in prayer and meditation at churches, in groups, and as individuals.

Comment: There is lack of inclusiveness within this Act by specifically stating 'churches'. Perhaps if it read 'places of worship' there would be less objection by organizations such as the Interfaith Alliance, which supports this ruling.

The National Day of Prayer Task Force specifies its mission and values as:

In accordance with Biblical truth, the National Day of Prayer Task Force seeks to:

* Foster unity within the Christian Church
* Protect America’s Constitutional Freedoms to gather, worship, pray and speak freely.
* Publicize and preserve America’s Christian heritage
* Encourage and emphasize prayer, regardless of current issues and positions
* Respect all people, regardless of denomination or creed
* Be wise stewards of God’s resources and provision
* Glorify the Lord in word and deed

Comment: There is nothing in the Act or in subsequent legislation that gives the NDPTF the authority to act as the sole representative for NDP. The mission and values stated by the NDPTF specifically excludes other faiths than Christianity. Public comment about the NDFTF 'hijacking' NDP is founded. As a non-Christian spiritualist, I find the NDPTF highly presumptuous in its claim to represent the NDP.

Even though I believe in prayer, I support the the ruling to declare the NDP as it is written unconstitutional.

Well said Dr. Willingham.

As for the rest of you, I almost pity you. But quoting bible versus at atheists is just hilarious.

Next comes the burning of all our other presidential speeches and documents calling for prayer.

How does *not* having a national prayer day impede on anyone's freedom to pray when they would like? It's not clear to my why Christians would be upset about this ruling. It doesn't reduce your right to practice your religion freely.

In my religion, we do not pray. We do not have a God. Can I gather my brethren and create a "National day of no prayer and no God"? No, because that would obviously grant special permission and government sanction to my religion

Having a National day of prayer does favor one religion over the other. This kind of government support of prayer would give special rights to one religion (or several) that others do not get. Not all religions use prayer.

Make your own Christian-based prayer day and the government won't stop you. That is freedom of practicing religion.

Or, make a national "Celebrate your religion or your absence of religion day". Then you'll include everyone. A national prayer day excludes not only atheists (who often treat their atheism as a religion) but also the religions that do not use prayer.

I don't understand the problem. Why does anyone need a "National Day of Prayer"? If you believe, there are already 365 days a year to pray, freely, in your house of worship, your home, or anywhere else you have the free time and concentration to do so. I don't need the government organizing any events for me or anyone else telling us when to pray. (What? We're not supposed to pray the other 364 days?) I agree with the judge that it's none of the government's business.

You people hailing fire brimstone make me sick. Telling people they are going to "burn". That kind of stuff is the exact reason some people sill never consider Christianity, or Jesus at all. You 100% have a reason to be upset, I am too, but spiritual condimnation will only push people further from the real Love of God. Pray for these people, pray for the judge. You don't need permission from anyone on this entire earth, that's the reason Jesus came, so that we could go to the Father at any point in time. I'm 23 years old, I've grown up in the church, and I'm tired of seeing "more holy than thou" church people drive my generation away from God. Stop casting stones and do what Jesus did, walk in grace and love.

Matthew 6:5-6: "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Matthew 6:5-6: "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Posted by: David Golightly at April 16, 2010


???

That is the correct way to pray. Prayer is NOT a show, Not a spectacle, Not entertainment.

If it was, then one judge could put an end to it. But because is NOT, no man on earth can prevent Me from Praying. Because I don't pray for a Show.

Therefore one simple little US Federal Judge, can't do anything about Me praying. Because I pray regardless of what the Imperfect, Incomplete, Insufficient and Incompetent Constitution might or might NOT say.

A Constitution, that has been used to give all types of Criminals, the same or more rights than the victims of their crimes. Is in no way a guide for believers.

So really, how pitiful the whining, bellyaching of so many, about one little insignificant judge. Whose decision can be easily overturn by another or even ignore completely.

??

PSALM 2

Why do the nations rage,
And the people plot a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break Their bonds in pieces
And cast away Their cords from us.”

4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
5 Then He shall speak to them in His wrath,
And distress them in His deep displeasure:
6 “Yet I have set My King
On My holy hill of Zion.”

7 “I will declare the decree:
The LORD has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break[a] them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’”

10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,[b] lest He[c] be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

The Founding Fathers never wanted Public (Government Sponsored) Preyer. Thomas Jefferson refused to issue prayer proclamations, observing, “Fasting & prayer are religious exercises. The enjoining them an act of discipline. Every religious society has a right to determine for itself the times for these exercises, & the objects proper for them, according to their own particular tenets; and this right can never be safer than in their own hands, where the Constitution has deposited it.”

James Madison, considered the Father of the Constitution, issued a few prayer proclamations at the behest of Congress during the War of 1812. But he later wrote that he regretted the move.

Governmental religious proclamations, Madison said, “seem to imply and certainly nourish the erroneous idea of a national religion.” He warned that there would always be a tendency “to narrow the recommendation to the standard of the predominant sect.”

The danger, as they recognized, wasn't JUST the outright dismissal of non-Christian views, but the selection and elevation in the public square of one sect of Christianity over another.

I'll let constitutional scholars debate the merit of this decision. But as a Christian looking at it generally, it does have a certain measure of absurdity. For a nation with such a deep, rich religious heritage to say that the NDoP is contrary to the very law of that land seems very disjointed to me.

I can understand atheists being upset about the NDoP - and any and all vestiges of religious faith being part of our civic life. But faith in God, acknowledgement of the “Creator”, and the like are concepts within the constitution itself. Don’t blame Dobson for the ideas and beliefs of Jefferson, Adams and Madison, et al.

And actually naming Shirley Dobson in the suit is so bizarre. She's such a menace to society, right?! In reality Shirley is such a sweet person; and the sound of the prayers of his people are sweet in God's ears. So it's kind of hard to see why some folks are sour about the NDoP – especially since it is an entirely voluntary event.

I'm of the opinion that the NDoP is a good thing and should continue to be officially sanctioned by the fed. govt. But even if this ruling is upheld (unlikely), the NDoP will of course continue, just not as a govt.-sanctioned event. And, as was stated previously, the cool thing about prayer is that nobody can stop you from doing it. Praise God! Amen.

Since secular humanists and atheism are both belief systems and religious choices, this one judges ruling rule in favoring their belief system is far more important than the Christians. We see this all over. Their beleif systemis based upon the belief that government and even public forums should be free from religious flavoring.By leaving out our religious truths, society is enforcing the atheists and human secularists religious beliefs. Sounds fair right??? Sounds like stupidity gone to seed and bearing fruit.

"So really, how pitiful the whining, bellyaching of so many, about one little insignificant judge. Whose decision can be easily overturn by another or even ignore completely." Amen to that!

(Salero, please do not put question marks in front of all your posts! BJ)

Let Prayers begin! NOT as a Show, or as a Spectacle to be seen by others, NOT as Entertainment for the Populace in the Public Square. But the way Jesus said ought to be done and so rightly quoted before.

...But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Once again, a liberal federal judge has told Christians what they can and cannot do. For many years, the National Day of Prayer has come and gone with no one objecting. Now,a few people think they have their feelings hurt and want to take it out on those of us who pray. They say they are offended, well, they offend me. Who is anyone to tell me when or where I can pray? It is certainly not Judge Barbara Crabb's place. God have mercy on YOU, Ms. Crabb. I guess the next thing you will want to take away is Christmas. As for Mr. Obama, I believe he stated he didn't want to step on anyone's toes concerning this matter. Well, he sure didn't seem to mind letting Muslims pray on the White House property. It's called discrimination. May God have mercy on the United States of America.

I've never understood why so many Christians get worked up over decisions like this. Do you really think this kind of thing affects God's kingdom or Christ's work? Does the gospel depend on some kind of tacit blessing from worldly authorities? If you believe these things, your faith is pretty weak.

I've seen the day of prayer events in our town, and they don't impress me as anything approaching deep worship of the Risen Lord. Mostly they're a thinly veiled excuse for the rich and powerful and connected to hobnob and network and try to look good in front of each other. That I can do without.

"The Founding Fathers never wanted Public (Government Sponsored) Prayer " That is a historically incorrect statement. While it is true that Jefferson did not issue proclamations encourageing prayer or fasting as president, he did issued many such proclamations as Governor of Virginia. As Commander of the Army and as President, Washington issued numerous such declarations supporting prayer and fasting. John Adams issued similiar calls to prayer and fasting. As I stated in a previous comment, Jefferson did not believe there was to be no contact between government and religion. As President urged Congress to pass a treaty with the Kaskaskia Indians which included among its provisions an annual stipent of $100 for 7 years to a Catholic priest to minister to the Indians. Two similar treaties, one with the Wyandottes and one with the Cherokees, were passed by Congress and signed by Jefferson during his term. Three times President Jefferson signed an extension of a 1787 law setting aside lands for the sole use of Christian Indians and for Moravian Bretheren for "civilizing the Indians and promoting Christianity." The law also included provisions appropriating land for military services and to the United Bretheren "for propagating the Gospel among the heathen." (Source: Christianity and the Constitution by John Eidsmoe) The modern liberal notion of the seperation of church and state has no historical basis in our founding documents or in the thinking of the Founding Fathers.

when you read the book of Daniel you encounter a lot of National days of prayer. The only problem is that these days are not pleasing to Yahweh because the 'gods' that the days are dedicated to are either graven images or nebuchadrezzar.In view of Jesus' clear instructions in the gospel according to Matthew 6 vs 5 and 6,the Judge is doing children of God a favour by reminding them that you do not need a National proclamation to pray.

Psalm 2 has it right. God has this nation in derision because they will not acknowledge Him and His Son Jesus Christ.

It is up to the Congress to request the National Day of Prayer but it has nothing to do with Christians praying. We will pray that day, as we do every day. We will pray for our nation to turn back to God and its Christian heritage.

It is quite evident how this nation has declined since Congress took sides with one atheist, trying to rid this country of the God Who brought it into existance.

The Congresses and Presidents who did call for a National Day of Prayer were unashamed believers and they knew without God they could do nothing. Therefore, it is to the shame and curse of those leaders who refuse to acknowledge the living and true God of the Holy Bible.

Back in 1980 the Rev. Bailey Smith, then the head of the Southern Baptist Convention, was loudly applauded by his audience when he said in a public meeting that "God does not hear the prayer of a Jew." Even today, many evangelicals believe that anyone following the Jewish faith is doomed to spend eternity in Hell, just as will Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and others who have not trusted Jesus as Lord and Savior. So to all the people who are up in arms over the National Day of Prayer, I have to ask: Do you believe God(s) hears the prayers from people of ALL religions? If your answer is "NO," they you have just made the case for the unconstitutionality of the National Day of Prayer.

>>[Our] freedoms ... are being used to deny their descendants the freedom to practice their faith

>> Once again, a liberal federal judge has told Christians what they can and cannot do.

To be brief: Bullpucky. Comments like these make my head hurt. It's plain that none of these posters have bothered to read the opinion:

36 U.S.C. § 119 is unconstitutional. I understand that many may disagree with that conclusion and some may even view it as a criticism of prayer or those who pray. That is unfortunate. A determination that the government may not endorse a religious message is not a determination that the message itself is harmful, unimportant or undeserving of dissemination. Rather, it is part of the effort to carry out the Founders' plan of preserving religious liberty to the fullest extent possible in a pluralistic society. The same law that prohibits the government from declaring a National Day of Prayer also prohibits it from declaring a National Day of Blasphemy.

It is important to clarify what this decision does not prohibit. Of course, no law prevents a citizen who is so inclined from praying at any time. And religious groups remain free to organize a privately sponsored prayer event if they desire the company of likeminded citizens. The President too remains free to discuss his own views on prayer. The only issue decided in this case is that the federal government may not endorse prayer in a statute as it has in § 119. (FFRF v. Obama, 08-cv-588-bbc, Opinion and Order, pp 64-65. Citations and quotes omitted for readability. Emphasis added.)

And we know this federal judge's decision was the original intent of the founders b/c...? It took 220+ years for a liberal federal judge to figure it out (yeah, I know when the Nat'l Day of Prayer began.). I guess our founding fathers were just vague thinkers and poor writers. They were also sexist, homophobic, and racists. And the constitution is a racist document. Yawn! (Gollll-ly, she shure is smrt.)

I tried to post this comment just now, but it did not go through.
Chuck, does God hear all the prayers of all people? As a Christian I cannot speak for God on this issue. In Acts 10, God tells us that he heard the prayers of Cornelius, a man who feared God. In response, God sent Peter to preach to him of Jesus Christ, who Cornelius accepted as his savior after hearing Peter. There are those who have cried out to God promising to follow God if God would deliver them out of some personal calamity and God hears them. The question I would ask, Chuck, is do all religions even teach that God even hears anyone? Buddhism and Hinduism do not. Buddhists do not believe in a personal diety. Hindus believe that to interact with the divine, one's mind, ones' consciousness, one's body, one's very soul must be annihilated so that one can become one with impersonal spiritual forces. The highest state of this interaction Hindus call nirvana. The Christian interacts in a personal relationship with God here on earth and in heaven as a distinct being with mind and body intact. Many third world religions believe that God and creation are one and one must use ritual and magic spells to manipulate God/creation into doing what one wants. The Christian God is totally seperate from His creation and thus cannot be so manipulated. Many such religions believe that good and evil are seperate but equal in strength; the God Christians worship is all powerful. Christians believes Jesus' words that the only way to God the Father is through His Son, Jesus Christ. Most Jewish people belive that Jesus is not the Messiah spoken of in the Hebrew Scriptures. Muslims believe that to say that God had a Son is blasphemous; they believe that Jesus was a prophet but that Mohammed was the final prophet. The Muslims I have talked to tell me Muslims have no assurance of heaven. One can obey all the Koran's commandments but if Allah wants to send you to hell, that is Allah's business. That is not the God I pray to. As people of different religions pray to different dieties, does God hear the prayers not personally addressed to Him? I would answer in the negative. How does this answer affects the constitutionality of a National day of Prayer? Chuck, you tell me.

(Salero, please do not put question marks in front of all your posts! BJ)


I'll put them at The End then

Question everything!

Who is BJ?

??

BJ is the moderator, who has the power to delete your posts. I'd probably do what he/she says.

Reading these comments from 'Christians' it seems to me that they are the most selfish people on the planet.

However, I can not help but wonder how 'Christians' would react if the United States named a specific day, "Muslim Prayer Day" or "Day of Buddah belly-rubbing."

I wonder...

But really, I already know how 'Christians' would react.

And so does every 'Christian' that posted a comment here.

'Christians,' always true to form, would come out fighting in the manner that they always do. Fighting for their right to treat others badly, that is. Because to the outside world, that is how we perceive you FROM YOUR OWN ACTIONS.

SO many 'Christians' cause SO much pain to SO many human beings. And so, that IS how the world perceives you, folks. As dangerous and a bit off-kilter. That's just the truth.

As a recovering 'Christian' who spent 4 of my younger years as a biblical scholar, I can guarantee you that, according to the bible that 'Christians' supposedly take as the infallible word of God, Jesus would NOT approve of how modern-day 'Christians' are representing him. For instead of using him to unite humanity, they use him to tear people down, start unjustifiable wars, and make planet earth a generally uninhabitable place for peace loving humans.

So, what WOULD Jesus do, folks? What WOULD Jesus do?

I think you know the answer to THAT one already, too.

Also, something for 'Christians' to consider: You know that you have created God in YOUR own image when God hates all the same people you do.

@Bill: "..."Day of Buddah belly-rubbing." Hey, cool idea, Bill. For the belly-rubbee, I volunteer Lee Marvin Cat, a derelict, hobo cat that came panhandling at our house about two years ago. Then, he was like Humphrey Bogart "Can you help a fellow American down on his luck?" Now he looks like Dom Deluise. (Frankly, he is worthless on top of the ground; he ought to be under it inspiring the cabbages.) But you may have him - if you pay the postage. Now what does this have to do with belly-rubbing? Only this: he loves to have his belly rubbed just before he eats. So if you want a buddah look-alike to belly rub, Lee Marvin Cat is your man -er, your cat. (Now if you agree to this, don't blame me later if you feel somewhat taken for granted by LMC - that's just the way he is.)

BJ is the moderator, who has the power to delete your posts. I'd probably do what he/she says.

Posted by: cybereagle777 at April 22, 2010


Wow!! thanks for the info. cybereagle. Now I have something to worry about in life. That somebody has that much power is awesome. Well, he/she will have to give an account to God Most Powerful for doing such a thing.;-)


????

Question Everything!

?

I have no problems with a Day of Prayer. But why is it some important to have the government recognize it?

By the way, there's already rumors spreading that if things get overturned so National Day of Prayer is recognized, a new national day will be attempted to be worked put in place on a different day. National Day of No Prayer. But remember if that new day does go through, you can still pray. No one is making you not pray. It's just a national day of no prayer.

How to Stop School Violence,
I all ways love it when I read stories as this and people jump around and say Oh, there is nothing that can be done about it. Did you know that when the first Laws against Prayer in Schools came about, it was all most unchallenged in Court?
Before I share, try to understand that I am of a time and a race of people that have faith in that which has become lost. What we are doing will only be a pin prick against the system, but it will....
Please allow me to show you how deep this issue is within a Matrix {of days of the past} that some do not understand. One must be of a time before the Laws created against God through the prayer in school, and to see what has took place for 30 years because of this Law of no prayer at school,and now look where we are at today. I have watched for over 40 years children die in school and this is not a myth. As a child and to feel protected by God, a myth that some seem to say I need to prove He lives.
Because of the diversity between different Faiths, it is important to remember that the goal is to bring back only that 10 second moment of silence, of Prayer. To bring in different Faiths and Bible teachings will only cluster the goal.
On page 20 the Pay It Forward Petition is our little views.....
All so, Join us in the;
"International Boycott Of The Arabic Drug Empire"
When I wrote my first " Boycott" I just wanted to see the trickle effect it would have, with out stepping into a forth dimension and having my in site lost. To bring Life to hope where there is none in our schools through a Boycott and words of truth....
The Arabic Drug Empire is the only one in the world that seeks to kill every last man woman and child in the world in order for their chosen few can repopulate the world....
Our goal is for our words to go around the world, to be heard in the streets to the country until it reaches the White House and shacks the very foundation of this Government Institution. It is not what we say that counts in as much as, it is what we do not say that builds words of truth.
Some say that a Boycott is a waist of time, but it would depend on what is said and how to merge this Boycott into the Violence At Our Schools, to understand we wish to live and we fight with words of truth to in force our right, because we face inhalation through the miss use of a faith.
Henry Massingale
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You only quoted from a couple of people, whereas if you take quotes from the majority of the founding fathers, you get a much different picture. In addition, while Jefferson was President, he was also the superintendent of Washington DC schools. As superintendent, he insisted that a Bible be in every single classroom. So much for the "wall" of separation, which has become totally misunderstood from what Jefferson was saying. He was only saying that a particular state (Delaware) would not have a particular religious denomination. Period.

In 1844 the Supreme Court ruled that schools would teach Christianity AND the Bible-the source of morality.

As late as 1892 the Supreme Court ruled that this is a Christian nation. They did this based on what the Founding fathers had written. To take the quotes from 2 people is ridiculous and gives a totally false impression. I can quote from many more to give a truer, more complete picture. For example,

George Washington told the Native American chiefs that regarding their youth that "Congress..will look upon them as their own children" and said "You will do well to learn our arts and our way of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are; Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention."

The Massachusetts Constitution, authored by Samuuel Adams stated "All persons elected must make and subscribe the following declaration, viz, "I do declare; that I believe the Christian religion, and have firm persuasion of its truth."

Noah Webster said "Our students should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New testament, or the Christian religion."

Benjamin Rush was one of America's most influential founders, not only signing the Declaration of Independnce, but also serving in the presidential administrations of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison. He understood that if we ever lost knowledge of the Bible, and of its rights and wrongs, then we would lose our republic. He warned "The only means of establishing and maintaining our republican form of government..is the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible."

Patrick Henry said "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded , not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!"

James Madison (the Father of the Constitution) urged Congress to vote against any bill if it was "adverse to the diffusion of the light of Christianity".

The founding fathers fears, that this republic could only stand as long as it was based on Christian, moral principles, is being seen today, as we have immoral leaders taking God out of everything, which is the exact opposite of what they wanted, and it's sad to us who know what this great nation once was, when we look at what is happening now.