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March 8, 2012

Pat Robertson Thinks It's High Time to Legalize Marijuana

The '700 Club' host echoed earlier statements.

Pat Robertson has again made headlines over his stance on drug enforcement, offering his unequivocal support for the decriminalization of marijuana.

“I really believe we should treat marijuana the way we treat beverage alcohol,” Robertson told the New York Times. “I’ve never used marijuana and I don’t intend to, but it’s just one of those things that I think: this war on drugs just hasn’t succeeded.” His stance was similar to what he said on “The 700 Club” last week and other comments he made in 2010.

Robertson's position is unlikely to find much support among evangelicals. A March 2010 survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press found that 41 percent of Americans think that marijuana should be made legal.

Three-quarters of Americans supported the use of marijuana for medical purposes. But support for decriminalizing marijuana was low among evangelicals. While 64 percent approve of medical marijuana, only 25 percent of white evangelicals said marijuana should be made legal, compared to 42 percent of Catholics and mainline Protestants. Those unaffiliated with any religion were the most supportive of decriminalization, with nearly two-thirds supporting legalization.

While this is not the first time Robertson has taken this stance, he ran for president as a hard-liner on drug enforcement. After losing his bid to be the Republican presidential candidate in 1988, Robertson said at the Republican National Convention that the U.S. should be "a city set on a hill … where the plague of drugs is no more and those who would destroy and debase our children with illegal drugs are given life sentences in prison with no chance for parole."

More recently, Robertson said over-incarceration in the U.S. is due to a “liberal mindset to have an all-encompassing government.” Many policy experts would agree that—for good or ill—there are many more prisoners today due to the nation's drug laws. Most of these laws, though, were advocated most strongly by conservatives. Billy Atwell of the Chuck Colson Center for the Christian Worldview opposed a 2010 California effort to treat marijuana just like alcohol. “There is no legitimate moral or pragmatic reason to legalize a drug that destroys the lives of those addicted to it and that fuels crime and corruption,” Atwell said.

In December 2010, Robertson voiced his support for decriminalizing marijuana and finding alternative solutions for drug users. He told his audience on the "700 Club" that the war on drugs was a successful political strategy but was a policy failure.

"It got to be a big deal in campaigns: 'He's tough on crime,' and 'lock 'em up!' That's the way these guys ran and, they got elected. But, that wasn't the answer,” Robertson said.

Some drug laws are being softened. Congress lowered the sentencing on crack cocaine in 2010, bringing prison terms more in line with punishment for powder cocaine. Many religious leaders, including evangelicals, supported the change because of the disproportionate punishment of African-Americans under the law.

Last year, CT asked three authors to weigh in on medical marijuana. And in 2005, we rounded up Christian leaders' opinions about the Supreme Court's decision on medical marijuana.

Comments

I don't really care what his opinion on anything is. PLEASE stop talking about him. The longer we talk about him, the longer he stays on the air and says things that embarrass the church.

Christ's first public miracle was to turn water into wine. It was also a very potent good wine the guests remarked, thinking the host had saved the best for the last. Christ knew that people like to let their hair down, have fun and celebrate from time to time.

Hard nosed Christians in the US just don't get it. Holland eliminated drug cartels by making marijuana obtainable at cafes in their cities. They have forward thinking Christians in their country. I was there and saw.

Working people there take a lunch break, one may order beer after or wine, while another orders smokes a marijuana cigarette. They all talk interesting conversation and go back to work. Nobody staggers into the canals backwards and they all behave like adults.

The government makes tax dollars and the studies there have proven that young kids and teenagers are not attracted to it because it's not a big deal and it doesn't lead anyone to worse drugs. The only person who will use the more dangerous drugs is the person who is going to use it anyway.

Christ doesn't mind someone having marijuana, Hard nosed Christians do however and thus doing allow the Crime rings to control it. These Christians put everyone at risk. First of all the price is astronomical therefore it is a great attraction to the cartels. In Holland its cheap and affordable. There goes the attraction.

It's time for Christians in the US to get Modern. We spend billions of dollars tying up our court systems and clogging our prisons with people who need not be considered criminals. Didn't you learn anything from Prohibition? You're hard nosed attitude established the Mafia into our country when you tried the same thing with Alcohol. Grow up and get Modern.

It is not the first time that Pat Robertson has made really dum remarks. I am dissapointed.

Would somebody please tell Pat Robertson to HUSH??!!!Just hush for a change... He has said enough to last us until Jesus comes!

Robertson used to be an excellent Christian leader and broadcaster. That's clearly no longer true.

Meanwhile, last month, a bullet that was fired from a drug hitman's high-powered rifle in Ciudad Juarez actually flew across the border and hit an innocent woman in El Paso. No joke, this really happened.

Perhaps these saintly stoners can explain to that lady why we need to legalize marijuana so that the murderous Mexican Cartels can happily practice their marksmanship skills on OUR side of the border (while selling lots of little caramelos to American children).

I cannot believe that these sorts of comments come from people reading a Christian publication...I say; Thank you Pat.
As one of the millions, yes millions, of Christians who use this wondrous plant that is a gift of healing from GOD for medicinal purposes, yet commit no other other crime. Not everyone who uses this plant is "hippie", many of us are otherwise conservative, and yet must hide behind the "green wall" i rejoice that a Christian leader would finally speak out. PLEASE investigate the hundreds of studies being done worldwide (including in Israel) that show the multiple applications and benefits of this plant to people with a myriad of illnesses, without hardly any side effects. I was listening before (a few weeks back) when Pat made similar comments about the ridiculous policies in this country over marijuana and incarceration, and REJOICED that he had the guts to say something. I would encourage other Christian leaders to begin to do the same. As Pat said, this plant is literally harmless compared to alcohol and other easily attained and addictive pharmacological products that doctors willingly hand out legally, knowing the consequences. My wife survived cancer thanks to this plant, so i can honestly say I know. I think the church would find many new members though acceptance and support of people who are societal outcasts over a ridiculous perpetuation of political garbage. Blessings to Pat, still relevant after all these years.
SHAME ON THESE POSTERS, who couldn't be Christians.

He's right. Marijuana laws were conceived, born and nurtured from lies, greed and racism. Here's a scoop, we, the people have been lied to and here's the proof. http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/ If anyone can refute what is posted on the site, please do so. TIA
Pat must be tired of his govt bearing false witness, something all Christians should also disdain. How can the jailing of nearly a Million of our fellow Americans on lie based laws, be justified?
LEAP member, NYPD, ret

Now I understand what I suspected all along for years!
He's been into something all along.

That may explain his Bizarre commnents, ideologies and interpretations over the years. Why is it that I'm not surprised that much after all?


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Salero, you were making perfect sense until the "CIVILIZED WHITE PEOPLE" remark. You would write such inflammatory & ignorant statements here, but I believe you would not have bumper stickers on your vehicle illustrating such biases. Your post unfortunately became vitriolic, racist filth. Your incredible hasty generalizations of minority groups are obscene, like some cartoon made by an infantile mind. I only hope that everything after the "CIVILIZED WHITE PEOPLE" remark is intended as a very failed attempt at sarcasm.

Pat normally spews such irrational garbage that I generally ignore anything he says. But there is distinct truth in his "revelation". My guess is that perhaps he is experimenting with being rational as some end-of-life confession/coming clean.

Because there is so much information on the internet, it should be embarrassing for anyone to not understand something like the war on drugs, or the substance(s) in question. -This "war" ruins American society in almost innumerable ways..

All of the information is there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Drugs, there are so many other sources too.. Not knowing/ignorance is not an option.. The drug war makes S.American and Mexican Narcos rich. It destroys even the possibility of scientific research on some plants/compounds that could be extremely beneficial to humans. It has cost Mexico 56,000+ dead in a few years. It generates a revolving door, for profit prison system, which in turn makes unsustainable, pariahs of human beings (many of these unfortunates belong to ethnic minorities, whom are targeted in many cases). It smuggles U.S. guns into Mexico for cartel use in operations like the ATF gunwalking scandal. It takes away a human's right to be the director of ones own conscious state.

Legalization & Regulation would break the backs of illegal distributors & organized crime, much like alcohol legalization did. Addicts could get the therapy they need, & not bars.. Addiction does not come down to some obscene character or moral flaw. Many substances are physiologically addictive & nearly replace serotonin in the brain (such as crack, meth, or heroine). They should be legalized as well, but people must be taught their destructive nature, and have a solid understanding of the effects those chemicals will have on their bodies & minds.

The non-addictive, healthy, utterly-misunderstood Cannabis plant is a good place to start healing this country. The war on plants & people needs to end..

Legalize, Regulate, Educate Properly..

Positively,
C.R.J.

I've never used it and never will but the 'war on drugs' has failed. I wish all drugs would be legalized and available for purchase at your local pharmacy. When one would purchase it they'd also sign a medical waver for treatment of any drug related medical problems.

American's drug use is destroying Mexico and Central America and costing the US millions in housing, feeding and medical care of drug 'salesmen' and women. Prison should be reserved for those involved in crimes &/or MVAs involving drug use.

Since 1984 Texas went from 30,000 inmates to 156,000 - much of that is with thanks to the 'war on drugs'. Where do you want to spend YOUR tax dollars?

"Harmless"? "Healthy"? When pot supporters (even the evangelical ones) start using such words to describe marijuana, you know something's badly amiss. Marijuana is NOT harmless, marijuana is NOT healthy.

http://www.ncfpc.org/FNC/0901S2.html

The dangers INCLUDE "medical" marijuana:

http://globaldrugpolicy.org/Issues/Vol%201%20Issue%203/The%20Dangers%20of%20Legalizing.pdf

Even if we limit the discussion to "medical" marijuana only (which is only 1 percent of the overall marijuana drug problem), the fact is that medical-marijuana states like Colorado and New Jersey are reaping a ton of problems for lawmakers and law enforcement:

http://www.skyhidailynews.com/article/20100627/NEWS/100629920/1079&ParentProfile=1067

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/11/crop_of_problems_keeps_nj_medi.html

So the facts are clear. But in his old age, Robertson has lost sight of them.

Resist Not Evil. You all must surely realize one thing. Marijuana is all around us. It's here and some of your friends are using it. They are most definitely not going to tell you.

Our kids are selling it. They like the easy money. It's rampant in our country. Medical marijuana is a band aid that only brings more problems.

I tried to give you an example of how the country of Holland deals with it by allowing its sale in cafes.

They have Low Crime in their cities regarding drugs. The vast majority of their people are hard working and socially conscious folks. Their cities are clean and they are Forward thinking people.

In California and a few other states the Mexican Drug Cartels have already moved into several regions.

Your resistance against marijuana is bringing them here. Stop stating that it is Evil for people to use it.

Learn a lesson from Christ and look at what Holland did. They allow it, tax it, and make it as affordable as alcohol. The Cartels have no interest in ever trying to compete with that. They want the big money in the US where the prices are sky-high because we have made it a huge crime to use it.

Here is a perfect example of Christs lesson Resist Not Evil. Hopefully you will look at the blaring differences between the two examples I can show you.

In Amsterdam they have legal prostitution in what they call the Red Light District. By allowing this they have totally done away with an evil type element that everyone knows as the Pimp.

This is the person in the U.S. That gets young kids hooked on heroin in order to farm them out for money.

Holland cleared the country of this type person by allowing the prostitutes to form a Union. They have regular scheduled blood tests, they have a retirement plan, and all the other things that come with a Union.

In one fell swoop, they did away with the Pimp, the number of kids he would have addicted to heroin the guns and violence that come with his profession and think about this too; The disease spread around by derelict type women too hooked on drugs to care about their health, the break in robberies to get money for their habits once they've been cast to the streets and I could go on and on.

When I was in Amsterdam we took a tour to the Red Light District with some friends. There were hundreds of tourists there like us out of curiosity. My wife and daughter came along. The friend explained the laws there and we immediately saw how it eliminates all kinds of evil because the enlightened Christians and other people of Holland resist not evil.

The more you resist, the stronger the resistance against you. The people of Holland simply refuse to acknowledge that it is a big deal and thus it melts away. I mentioned before that Christ told some people who thought they were better than others. Even the prostitutes are going ahead into Heaven ahead of you. He acknowledged prostitution and understands people are people. He didn't see them as evil.

Don't be forever listening and never hearing, ever looking never seeing. Use the deep principles of the teachings. Get past the surface. Marijuana is not a gateway drug to worse drugs.

I know of people who have smoked it for years and they are not any different from people I know of who drink alcohol. Alcohol can be abused, everything can be abused. Its not the substance that causes this to happen, it's the person who uses the substance.

It's like Food. Thirty five percent of the US population is obese, people who abuse food. The death toll related to this abuse cannot even be measured in terms of ensuing diabetes, heart disease and other things that come with it.

It's not the Food, it's the mentality of the person using the food. Does this mean we start making arrests somewhere? Declare a war on Food maybe? It's killing more of our people than anything else. Should we get hysterical about it? Pass more laws? Hunt down obese people?

Get real Folks. Wake up for God's sake! If you listen to what Pat Robertson is saying and use your head to truly think on what Resisting Evil Means, you just may begin to see how your mentality is pulling these Cartels and violence into our country.

Someone mentioned legalizing the whole gambit of drugs. That is probably the most creative of all suggestions. Let our Country monitor it. We the people, not the cartels. This way we know who uses it, we can legally prescribe it and Tax it.

We can also help the hard drug users with excellent cost free programs and organizations already in place like A.A., Narcotics Anonymous and other 12 step spiritual programs that have been proven to work for a lot of people with those problems. Not all of course because some people are beyond help.

But we can eliminate our main problems with drugs.
This Can Be Done, I saw it in Holland. What one man or woman can do Another man or woman can do. So it goes with countries.

The Cartels would disappear within a year from our Nation. Their money source would dry up overnight. Each day you resist them you only make them stronger. Use the wisdom Christ tried to teach you.

@Doc Anthony.
You're stating "facts", not in evidence. In places where there are liberal marijuana policies, drug use by teens decreased. That's not rhetoric it's fact.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12/26/portugals-drug-policy-pays-eyes-lessons/
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/176/eurostudy.shtml Other related problems decreased as well.
"One of the ironies of the drug war is that where it was been waged most loudly and enthusiastically is precisely the place where teen drug use is now most entrenched. Conversely where drug war rhetoric is comparatively mute, teen usage of illicit drugs is much lower. In the Netherlands, for example, which has the most liberal drug policy in Europe and where marijuana is effectively legal, marijuana use among teens is actually lower than in the United States. The survey found 28% of Dutch teens smoked marijuana as compared with 41% of American teens, and 23% of American teens had experimented with other illicit drugs as compared with only 6% of European teens."
BTW, there hasn't been a recorded overdose of marijuana, ever.
AND, no one with a developing brain (under 21) should use any substance which might interfere with that development. (See teen use cited above)

I am glad to see that more and more Christians are finally facing the truth, that the war on drugs has failed.

Portugal legalized drugs 10 years ago and drug usage numbers decreased significantly.

Marijuana has many healing properties and it is far less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco.

Marijuana should be legalized, regulated, and taxed just like alcohol.

Let the parents parent their own children instead of the police arresting these non-violent offenders.

LOL, LOL!

I think someone named CRJ who is ascribing to me and accusing me of making some comments, that I never made.

Demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt the side effects of something stronger than Marijuana. Like maybe... Posession. Only the Wonderful name of Jesus can set the possessed Free!

Go figure!


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Ditto!

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Thank you Mike Parente for your posting of the percentages in the Netherlands.

I hope that some of the readers will take a look at them with an open mind, if that even exists anymore these days.

Many times out of fear of the unknown we refuse to change. This is understandable but not justifiable.

We cling to the known only because it is the known, even when it no longer works. Fear is like
a crouching Tiger waiting for us in the unknown.

It is difficult to step into this region but we should not be afraid.

Our Nation would not be stepping into it without knowledge. Holland has proven it works and that
quality in society improves when that society uses its creative will upon the problem.

So we have a choice, resist and continue losing or follow a wise nation's example and implement it into
our society.

I read through most of the comments/arguments posted on this site for the legalization of marijuana. We need to look at the comments in the light of TRUTH: 1) Leaders of Christian churches are not immune from being deceived and giving opinion contrary to God's word. 2) Marijuana is an addictive substance and destructive to the human mind/body. 3) We cannot compare marijuana to alcohol - even though the destruction of both in every aspect of the word could be the same. Finally: 1) For those who think that Jesus would approve, since he converted water into wine - I suggest you read that portion of scripture again in the original language. 2) Pay a visit some day to psychiatric units just for adolescents/teenagers, and you will see the destructive effects of marijuana.

The Mind like the heart is something to be Guarded. That does Not means to close it, but to watch out for what can come our way to enter into it.

An open mind is an Euphemistically Unguarded mind. An Unguarded mind is Incautious, Unprotected and Vulnerable to attacks and a take over. We are Not call by God, His Word or Jesus Our Lord and Saviour to be that kind of a people, who have Unguarded minds.

We are called by Scripture to Renew and Guard our Hearths and Minds.

So let's all do that for ourselves and one another.

What Mr. Robertson is doing, really, is appealing to a younger generation of listeners, who by Inexperience have Vulnerable minds, since his older audience is rapidly decreasing in numbers, as they have become wiser.

I heard years ago, back in the 1980's that his audience was estimated at 5 millions at that time. It probably is less than that now. So he is being smart and shrewd by appealing to the younger more Vulnerable of Minds.

However, he is Not the best example of leadership for that younger generation. But then; Who is it? Jesus is!


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Hello Rad.. Regarding your reply to my comments about marijuana. First of all it is NOT an addictive substance. Perhaps it may be hard for you and some others to understand, but addiction depends on the person using this substance whether or not He or She has an addictive-type mindset.

Most people don't, but there are those who do. These type people will sooner or later become dependent on alcohol, marijuana or any other substance to self-medicate their condition. They will find it and use it regardless of any law put between themselves and the substance.

Alcohol is not addictive. Yet if you see an alcoholic.. It APPEARS that he or she is addicted to alcohol. The vast majority of people can drink 1 or 2 alcoholic drinks and walk away from it. The alcoholic cannot. I won't explain here the reason why and all of the factors for this behavior because it would take several pages.

I have worked with these type personalities for nearly 30 years and have no reason to deceive you as the proof well founded by many physicians and other researchers.

You can quickly learn about disease with alcohol and drugs by visiting online a site that deals with Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous. These organizations use a Spiritual 12 step program wherein they find what is known as a Higher Power to fill the Void they chronically feel inside themselves. Many of them end up calling this higher power God and I won't go into all of that here either.


The other thing I want to let you know is that I worked as a volunteer counselor with juvenile hall in my local community for a few years. The majority of the teens in each group had ended up there because of their over-indulgence of alcohol, marijuana and or other substance abuse.

There are larger majorities of teens in my community who indulge in alcohol and marijuana and do it with a good degree of maturity and responsibility. This is not to say I condone them doing this but they are going to do it regardless of what I have to say.

My main point is that you should inform yourself more about the things you oppose and in so doing, you may become more enlightened as did Pat Robertson and thereby armed with new knowledge, enable yourself to assist our society in ridding ourselves of these drug cartels.

The Cartels need people like you. Why? Because you help keep it illegal. Their greatest fear is having it become legal.

Medical marijuana only adds to the problem since the those who have the card are tempted to sell it and people who know the ones who have their card are continually breaking into that person's house and stealing it. All this because it's still illegal.

The Cartels sit back and laugh at the absurdity.

They know the prices for this easily grown substance will remain sky high and go even higher the stronger the laws or war against it gets. They have no intention of ever leaving such a gold mine.

However if legalization comes into effect, their gold will be gone. They even hire public relations firms to campaign against legalization whenever the issue comes up before a ballot.

They are very sophisticated these days. I know for a fact that they already own more than 3 submarines. So does the FBI.

They are also presently entrenched in several regions of Wisconsin, California, Montana and other states. They actually ship weapons out of the U.S. And into Mexico. Their camps surrounding Sequoia National Park where they grow it are very dangerous places to wander into by accident.

These Cartels are not just a bunch of nincompoops trying to play gangster. They hire engineers and architects, purchase state of the art equipment and own fleets of dump-trucks, water trucks and other construction vehicles. So they invest quite heavily into keeping marijuana illegal.

Now the last thing you mentioned was my interpretation of John 2:11 where Jesus turns water into wine. Yes I have read all the different versions of Bible and looked at all the conjectures as to how people have interpreted the symbolism surrounding this act.

Regardless of all the interpretations, the wine was very potent because one person remarked that usually the cheap stuff or watered down wine was brought out last, whereas the best stuff had been presented to them. Jesus never delivers second class.

He knew that the people there were going to get high on the stuff and he knew that that is OK in the eyes of God.

So regardless of anyone's interpretation; He knew that once he made the wine, the people were going to be having a ball, celebrating, dancing and letting their cares and worries go for the day. In other words Celebrating.

There might have even been an alcoholic present at the wedding that day. If so I'm sure Jesus was not about to stop his delivery of the miracle.

I've had people tell me that “Oh wine in those days was a different type da da da da.” No; Wine in those days was the same as wine now. True, the weaker wines are still used in Italy for dinner and the kids drink it, but the Wine that Jesus made was Class A, potent and celebration guaranteed.

When was the last time a Coors route driver shot up a Walmart because he saw the Anheuser Busch rep making a delivery?

Robert Mondavi guns down Ernest & Julio Gallo employees all the time, right?

"Meanwhile, last month, a bullet that was fired from a drug hitman's high-powered rifle in Ciudad Juarez actually flew across the border and hit an innocent woman in El Paso. No joke, this really happened.

Perhaps these saintly stoners can explain to that lady why we need to legalize marijuana so that the murderous Mexican Cartels can happily practice their marksmanship skills on OUR side of the border (while selling lots of little caramelos to American children). "

Unfortunately, this poster draws incorrect conclusions from the criminalization of marijuana. Legalization would essentially remove the biggest money maker for many gangs/cartels. If marijuana could be sold at Kroger, why would someone risk buying it from a dangerous gang.
Those of you who jump to such ridiculous conclusions about the effects of decriminalization need to step back and do some research. Stop relying on opinions from James Dobson or Joel Ostein. Go look into what has happened in Portulgal since legalization of all drugs there. An increase in use/abuse? Nope. Less, actually. And as a huge bonus to their tax payers? Millions of dollars saved every year by not prosecuting and imprisoning these people.
If you want to blame some body for the decline of society look no further than Wall Street.


Hey Juanito you brought up a very interesting point when you asked. “When was the last time a Coors route driver shot up a Walmart because he saw the Anheuser Busch rep making a delivery?"


That would be when Al Capone head of the Mafia gang in Chicago used to do it to his competition and people who bought from his competition.

They in turn did the same thing back. Sub-machine-guns were the weapon of choice by these gangs and they brought mayhem and hell to the streets of the U.S.A.


This is a perfect illustration to all of you to see the effects of what making marijuana illegal does.

Some of you may not be familiar with a time in our History but my father used to tell me stories of how terrible Chicago turned during that time.

Prohibition in the 1930's was the act of making the manufacture for sale of alcohol illegal. Al Capone loved it when they passed this law, because it was a risk he was willing to take.

Law abiding citizens would not make it or sell it but they certainly wanted to consume it and the gangs were the only ones who had it for sale.


This of course made the Gangsters in Chicago and other cities very rich. This era also established and rooted the Mafia into the United States.


What brought it about? People like the People today, who cannot see the forest for the trees.

Though the proof is there that crime and usage went down in the Netherlands and in Portugal and
dozens of other places. It will make no difference to a stubborn person claiming that he or she knows
the will of God.

The people who got Prohibition enacted claimed this and what's the proverbial saying?.. The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions..

Someone made a statement above that having an open
mind is an incautious mind? You may want to take a look at a dictionary sometime my friend. Its easy to twist words and confuse yourself.

The word humility to me means "Something opposite of Arrogance." When a person has humility they are teachable. An Arrogant person is unteachable because they are what is known as a Know-it-all, and they will use anything available to prove that they have all the answers.

We don't have all the answers on this subject but we do have encouraging reports from the Netherlands and Portugal and other places. So let us at least have some willingness to be open to those good reports.

One thing we know for sure. Our policy is NOT Working and the problem is getting worse.

I suggest to the parents reading about this that they do the research themselves. Go online and look at what they are saying in the Netherlands.

Then write to you're Congressional leaders and tell them your opinion. Don't be frightened of what other people will think about you if you feel that a change in policy would be better for your society.

But don't just sit there and abandon your society's better chance at a good future by doing nothing.
And for God's sake and I truly mean for His sake don't just go along with the herd because you're frightened of change and it's the easy thing to do.


Galatians 5:18-21

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft (((the taking of potions to change state of mind))); hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Hello Salero I saw your post about what I had said regarding an open mind. Here's Wiki's dictionary translation of OPEN...

Open: To make something accessible or removing an obstacle to something being accessible.

The problem is that you are arguing from Assumption.

Perhaps if I use an example it might help you to understand.

In the olden days Cities were guarded by Gates and to open the Gate, the city knew it was a risk they had to take if they were going to allow traders in and out during the day for commerce.
Enemies were always lurking nearby.

You stated that An open mind is an Euphemistically Unguarded mind.

I hope you are not so obtuse as to think that when the City opened its Gates to do business, they were too foolish to place Guards and Lookouts on the Towers.

You assume that if a person opens their mind to a new idea that they can somehow be taken over by a thought. Most people are far too wise to leave their mind i.e. their well being unguarded.

It is a giant leap to add to the definition the assumption that they would be too stupid or foolish to do otherwise.

So your saying that an open mind is an Euphemistically Unguarded mind. is where you get confused.

Just because one opens one's mind. It Does not, Cannot and Will not, in any Way, Shape or Form mean that it is an unguarded mind.

Were you to say that an open mind left unguarded is an unguarded mind then your definition would be correct. But you get tangled up in your assumptive addition to the definition.

I wouldn't let any of this bother you however, since I doubt you will ever have to worry about any danger of yourself having an open mind.

You try to distract and attempt to take away the focus of the astute people making their points about this subject.

I think people are far too savy these days to be tricked by a trite twist of words. We've seen too much of that with the media and the Fox agenda news reporters to not know when someone is sneaking in some more agenda on us.

To a equal degree Daniel or better yet!

I'm sure there is no danger to the likes of Robertson et al of you having a Guarded mind or heart.


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Do not compare alcohol and marijuana! Alcohol can and is used in moderation by millions. You don't have to get buzzed and high by moderately drinking wine or beer. Pot, on the other hand, is ALWAYS used to get high. It is highly psychologically addictive, damaging to the lungs, and risks potentially long-term cognitive damage.

Pot is also a well-known gateway drug. Those whom regularly enjoy getting stoned on marijuana, especially younger people, also eventually and frequently seek out "better" or different highs. This is a fact. It kills ambition and drive to do much more than sit around and get high. It can easily and quickly become the focus for those with addictive personalities. I know, because I long indulged and observed this in my peers.

No, we don't need to make a drug with such negatives any easier to obtain. Legalization will undoubtedly make its use seem socially acceptable and usage rates will soar.

No, people caught smoking pot don't need to be thrown in jail, but they do need other consequences for deterrence. Do we need more stoned people in vehicles? Anywhere? I think not!

I often disagree with Robertson, but I totally agree with him on this one. Make it legal, period, and tax the heck out of it to fund cures for other social ills such as poverty, and stop arresting people who smoke it while those who commit heinous crimes go free because the prisons are too crowded. You'll never stop people from getting high so use it for something productive instead. Our government couldn't care less about whether it's legal or not, it's just something for politicians to use against each other and against us. Get a clue, brothers and sisters. Since we can't make the two most addictive substances on earth, alcohol and nicotine, illegal, what's the difference?

Good for Pat!

Good for him! He also said Iraq was a mistake and that Illegal Aliens need a path to Citizenship. Go Pat!!!

Jerry Rectenwald: There is no proof that social safety nets cause the problems you claim it does. As a couple of examples, look at Holland and Denmark and how productive and hard-working their people are, and how sound their Economies are.

As far as you saying those who want an end to the war on drugs are on "theologically thin ice" I think those who subscribe to the view that a Secular Governments laws need to mirror the OT are actually the shaky ones. There is no mandate in Scripture for NT age Christians to advocate for behavior-changing laws in an of themselves.

Plus you assume that legislation is always the natural response to a probe, when treating it like a Public Health problem is easily a valid option as well.

Prohibition should have taught us a lesson: The Cure can be much worse than the disease.

One other point for Jerry Rectenwald: I missed your comment about the 8th commandment before, but Jesus and Paul both affirmed the right of Governments to levy taxes. And since they both supported giving to the poor, it's not unfair to assume that if the Government sees it in Society's best interest to support the less fortunate, then it is their right to do so.

And no, I do not accept the "Let the churches do it" canard. Ezekiel 16 49-50 declares that a people's refusal to help others is an offense to God. So we can assume from that 2 things: 1) God expects that out of entities *other than* the Church, and 2) It is not so much a "Christian Duty" to help the poor, but actually "Pre-Christian" morality, i.e. how God expects his creation to operate.

Sorry, it does not follow logically that the government should be helping the less fortunate. This is a recent phenomena, and in fact, the Bible says that those who do not work should not eat. The Bible in NO way says that the government should be helping the poor, and you obviously won't have Bible verses to back that up. The gov't should get out of education, welfare, abortion, medical care, and a whole lot of other things. The government is supposed to be protecting us from enemies, and unfortunately, one of these days we may find that it's one of the things that they're doing the worst. I pray not.

Everything they're doing for our so-called "safety" is really the government taking away our freedoms. This regime has gone way over the boundaries of the Constitution with the passage of the NDAA, which allows obama to name any citizen, have them arrested, remove their citizenship, send them anywhere in the world, and have them detained indefinitely without a trial. If this doesn't scare you, it SHOULD. It's crazy and sounds just like something Hitler would have done. Another thing similar to Hitler, was the flying of the American flag with Obama's face where the stars normally are, in the state of Florida. He has also signed another bill using executive fiat to spend 20 million dollars to bring in our enemy, Hamas, into the US and is bringing them here to house them, educate them, etc. I pray they put them in some liberal neighborhood. Does anyone have enough brains to know this is dangerous? Are there any liberals with enough backbone to say that this is wrong??

"That government is best which governs least." Our country was founded for the people, not for the government, and we're entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Instead we have a president burning up the constitution and doing everything he can to bring his marxist ideals into action in our country.

I note that folks have found a way to zigzag around my point that Christians ought not to make ostensibly Christian arguments based on pragmatism, so I take it my point is affirmed.

I am also encouraged that no one has tried to refute my comment that Christians ought to be sober, and that we ought to encourage sobriety in our culture. So I am a happy blogger today, since those were my main points.

But let me further clarify that I don't think that marijuana is as deadly or addictive as hard drugs; nor do I think that using it makes people bad or utterly incapacitated.

But as I mentioned, I have experience in the matter, and I can say with certainty that the effect of pot on the user is such that the user is in no way shape or form sober or clear-minded. God wants us to be sober and wants us to see reality as it is, so that we can answer His call to serve and evangelize with power. And of course God calls us to lead by example.

Can Christians still advocate for a ‘clean and sober’ lifestyle while still advocating for legalization, etc. The answer is, yes, which is why my previous post started off with the statement that we can agree to disagree on this issue.

But when the smoke clears, I suppose I am positioned in what might be called a classic Anglo-American Evangelical activism, which holds to the idea that we, as a society, do not simply turn a blind eye to self-destructive forces, but instead address these things: through preaching, teaching and leading my example (the positive); but also through our laws (restraining evil). So this is where I part company with my Libertarian friends.

So, then do I think that Prohibition was a good idea? No, I do not. But just as I learned in my body in my youth, it is also true regarding policy: you shouldn’t mix alcohol and drugs. I work in the business world, and let me tell you, alcohol is KING! Regardless of the tragedy of alcoholism and alcohol-related death and suffering, alcohol use (not to say abuse) is ubiquitous in America.

Drug use is unfortunately also prevalent, but it simply can’t touch the place alcohol holds. And unlike drug use, many, many people imbibe regularly staying well short of intoxication. Who (except Bill Clinton) ever heard of smoking a joint an not getting high?

Finally, some common sense from a big-time evangelical on this issue.

Marijuana is essentially like alcohol. It can be used to treat ailments or, like wine, “[make] glad the heart” (Ps. 104:15). In any case, one's choice to use or not should be between the individual and God.

In addition, we have to grow up and admit we've been sold a bill of goods about "drugs." The War on (Some) Drugs is a multibillion-dollar industry benefiting the prison-industrial complex, police state, and privileged industries that might have to compete with "street" drugs were they legal, such as the booze biz, Big Pharma with its array of feel-good Rxs, and industries such as timber and paper that benefited from the outlawing of hemp, a marijuana cousin that got swept up in the anti-marijuana hysteria. Big banks profit from laundering billions in illegal drug money, and organized crime nets untold profits (see Mexican drug kingpin Chapo Guzman, a billionaire). Much of that money is employed to corrupt public officials. Drug prohibition in general is based on Big Lies. It is not Christian in any way, shape or form to continue believing, and repeating, Big Lies, no matter how self-righteous the intent.

The Pharisees thought they were the most righteous guys on the block too.

AKBOPPER pointed out that Prohibition creates crime -- which ought to be one of those "duh" things which, unfortunately, many white evangelicals in their cozy suburban homes don't seem to get. This issue is not confined to the Capone era; see the recent weekend when fifty people in Chicago were shot, and ten of them killed. Eighty percent of this activity was gang-related and 100 percent of those gangs are funded by illegal drug sales.

It's time to stopadding vain commandments of men to the commandments of God (Mar 7:7), to cleanse Christianity from the spirit of religion and the self-righteousness of the lawyers and the Pharisees, which is not the righteousness of Christ. It's time to admit that the way that seems right unto religious man, is the way of death (Prov 16:25). Prohibition may seem right to the religious mind, but the bottom line is, it kills people. It's time to kill Prohibition.

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