Hi Sally,

I think that if this is a Mega Church, that they could surely find a spot with a desk/computer/phone for this woman. It sounds like she does so much for them and is such a blessing, that this is the least they could do for her. Hopefully, they're not discriminating against her because she is female. It sounds like all of the other positions are filled with males or saved for future male employees.

Sincerely,

Sandy Polcyn
UW Hospital & Clinics
West Clinic Information Desk

How should I put this? Terry seems to be both a God and people oriented person-which is good.It is my view and biblical view that church people should take care of their own and should not add unneccessary pressure on the worker of God who is willing.Many times all that is needed is a disscussion.The article did not say whether or not the issue of an office was discussed. Maybe because of her seeming comfortableness an office was not seen as a priority to them for her(Just giving them the benefit of the doubt).
What are the advantages and disadvantages of having an office? Would it increase the effectiveness of the work she does to glorify God or would it bring a sense of false pride- putting her in her 'comfort zone' and therefore dimishing effectiveness?
She has never had an office-ever it seems- in this mega church:Is it what she wants? Is that her gut feeling's desire?
After answering all those questions honestly-I beleive this question can be self answered.

Rachel,

I agree that both honest communication with leadership and honest soul-searching about what she really wants are key to Terry's solution. But I wonder, too, if she might consider some creative problem solving. Take a walk around the building, look at possible options that would both honor the forward thinking space planning that has been done AND bring some fresh ideas to help them create an adequate space in which she can work.

If, indeed, she does have the ear of leadership and they trust her input, then it's possible that going to them with a creative, well-thought-out solution that includes the reasons why an office is important and appropriate will bring a fair hearing and the start of dialogue toward solving the problem.

If her proposal does not bring constructive conversation, then I think I agree with Sally--I have a bad feeling about this.

A few things are important to investigate. a)is does she want one but is keeping quiet because she's been told they are being held for others? b)did she start off with the understanding she wouldn't need one and now that her influence and responsibility is increasing it's time for a change which needs to be communicated? c) if the "management" were asked what would their reasoning be behind not giving her one?

I think the most crucial point here is what the management feels about this situation. If it is something they just don't realize then they can be extended grace, but if it is because they are discriminatory either because she is female or they don't think her ministry is as important as other ones, then it stinks.

This reminds me of a situation in my church. There are 13 fulltime staff; 20 part time, but women's ministry leadership is completely volunteer. What's that about? The children's, youth and worship ministries have several paid assistants. The women's ministry falls only under the male director of adult ministries. There are no assistants or interns paid for women's ministry.

Since more than half the church is made up of women I think something is askew here.---------

This situation is risky for this woman's future. By that I mean she is setting a standard for herself by not being assertive to her and program needs; and, setting a precedent for others that follow when she burn's out. Simply put, women do the impossible because most women want the best outcome. Work is not seen as glory and power by most women, but an effective way to improve circumstances and in this case the "megachurch."

Is she working in this manner for glory of Christ or the glory of the church. I know I've gotten the two mixed up myself and focused on the church and not Christ. I know only one or two men who would work under those conditions of no office and that my sisters is a guess.

Wary and prayer for discernment and wisdom would be my next step. I agree with Anon, something is askew.

I would be concerned about the ethical ramifications of meeting at Starbucks, restaurants, and hallways. If Terry has as much influence as it sounds like - do the senior pastors want that much church business taking place in a less than confidential environment? I do lay counseling and while a coffeehouse environment helps people feel comfortable and informal - I have come to realize that it's inappropriate for that type of ministry. If Terry's main area of influence is more natural and service oriented, then maybe it isn't an issue.

Is this a paid position that she holds? Why not meet with people in various places within the church plant, surely it will become obvious to those in leadership that she needs private space for meetings and clerical work. It may be that her ability to be so effective is because she meets outside the church grounds.
Pastors,both male and female have a tendancy to over look the needs of supporting staff or volunteers. They would not let their space issues linger for too long. If the Lord is running the ministry, He will tell them to do what is best for all of them. I am sure that she is praying for the wisdom to know when it is time to approach the subject, should it come to that. You would think that there would be equity in the administrative structure; yeah in a perfect world.
I do volunteer work at my church; work that most churhes would have to pay for, the Pastor is only grateful when it to her advantage, like she needs more work out of me or needs my alliance on some forth-coming issue. Is that right? Of course not, is it right that I allow myself to be manipulated and used? No, but in obedience to a position and responsibility that I have, I have to do what is best for the whole and not just what is best for me. So many times I have wanted to walk away and be done with it. It is extremely frustrating to be in a position that everyone around you seems to take for granted. Hard call to make as to when and how to get things changed. Not so easy to wait upon the Lord when that waiting is putting a heavy weight on your back and heart.
Seems like the Lord will have an answer for Terry's situation pretty soon and I will be interested in hearing how it was resolved. God is in control.

If she is is that involved in church leadership, she should have an office. An honest talk with the pastor and the church leadership would clarify her role, whether it is paid or volunteer. Maybe she could share space with another volunteer. There are several unanswered questions. But if there is a problem with needing space for meetings to help carry out the church's mission and God's work, then that need will certainly need to be addressed before it becomes a problem.

To me it seems the bigger the church is, every one is just worried about themselves, then doing the right thing in GOD sight, this is sad but true, people never recognized, people that are humble and have a servants heart. many times in ministry, we brush pass these poor souls, and look for fame for ourselves, in the last days the church, or the building of people in high standard never are seen heard or recognized, poor souls right under our very own noses, we want to make an impact to the poor, by the poor, own finances to show what a great work we are doing for the Lord, sad but true.
i have a ministry which i myself was not see or heard about, made the announcement, if it is not to their advantage, or even if it is, sad, we have one top celebrity in very ministry, that has to steal the show, when it should have been JESUS, and not us.

I have to agree with Connie and with Deb above. Setting the standard that it is ok to not support a ministry appropriately is poor form in the long run. The ethics of public meeting places is also a concern.

If you take your ministry seriously, you must prayfully consider what is appropriate support, then pray for and make those needs known.

Lots of possiblities and angles to consider in these posts. Thanks for taking the time to dialogue, heads and hearts engaged.

Here's something I ran across last week. More food for thought...

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."

Martin Luther King, Jr.

--Sally Morgenthaler

I resonate with Terry. I am also in a ministry position where I find myself gaining responsibility. It is a struggle being a woman in a man's environment, but one that is so worth it. My advice is to not remain silent, but your attitude and approach in addressing the situation is key. I've found that expressing my concerns in a calm, purposeful manner achieves the best results. Otherwise, they'll see any negative comment as nagging!

Terry already knows how to communicate with these guys, and has already earned their respect. Her approach can be to simply state that she is no longer able to do her job effectively without an office space. Have a list of reasonable reasons ready. She can also point to the fact that not having an office space limits her influence in the congregation, b/c the congregation can see that the pastors don't value her enough to give her a space.

I am happy to say that my 'guys' are really making an effort to include me. They are coming to realize that tapping into the potential of women is something they can't ignore. They are also learning that they need to rethink relationships/friendships on ministry staff. For understandable reasons, pastors are leery of spending alone time with a woman. However, they don't think twice about going out to lunch with each other. It's a learning process and I'm so thankful that I have the opportunities and staff that surround me.

Terry seems content, I see no mention of her
having a problem with it.
Leave it alone. Let Terry and Leadership
tend to such matters.

I have spent time reading the other comments after reading the article. I have served in the ministry for almost thirty years and have never received the same treatment given to the boys in the ministry. I have never received a paycheck, Christmas bonus, or special celebrations. But we just realize that what we do, we are doing because we are serving our Lord and answering His call.

However, that does NOT mean I do everything that they ask me to do anymore. I select what I believe my ministry involves and stick to that objective.

One comment expressed the fact that we do need to begin to set a standard for future generations. I have a granddaugter and if she should choose to go into the ministry, I do not want her to have to go through the battle I have had to go through.

Just be able to be proud of what you do at the end of the day and be able to know that you will not have to ask God to forgive you for the way you handle the situation. But if Terry insist on doing the work for the guys, then they should give her an office to do the work in. And if they insist on saving the office space, then they should share one of theirs or give it up- anonomous

Hi all,
I think the quote Sally tossed in mid-way through this discussion speaks volumes. "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." I hesitate to weigh in on this because I don't know Terry, her staff, her church. The details of staplers and desks do not seem to be the big picture here so I will dare to dabble in this conversation. Putting the physical office space aside, this larger issue stands, do women get equal footing and if not, why? We've come a long way in that our voices are heard, our hearts are allowed to preach, the dance we do between family and office and worship is recognized by many as a very valuable and daunting, one men admit they cannot and would not do. But, why is this not as valued as the male voice? I am thankful that I have been asked to use my voice in male circles, but I can't help but wonder if it is valued as highly, even when some say that it is. But I stay silent at times because I keep thinking, "at least I got to speak up a once or twice, at least I got the job." But is this enough to go on? Are we so thankful to be heard, after years of battling for our voices, that we are okay with whatever we get? Is this okay? Or should we, can we, will we ask for the complete package? A corner office with a view of the beach for me please.

I'd have to ask the very basic and obvious question - has she specifically asked for an office, or only hinted at it?

Perhaps Terry needs to rethink her 'influence' in this context. She may think she is being used for the kingdom of God, but she's just being used. With this much responsibility and this much influence she should not only have office space, she should be a paid staff member. One of the reasons her male superiors (an oxymoron) use her so much is the fact that she allows it to happen.

I also question Terry's underlying motives. It's difficult to discern just from what Sally shared, but my bad feeling about this scenario isn't from Terry's lack of space, it's from Terry's mega-involvement. Sometimes we can desire to be so involved in the kingdom of God; we become so over involved that our leaders cannot see the problems that result - like the need for space. Terry doesn't give them 'space' to realize what's wrong with the picture. What would happen to the ministries of this church if Terry was no longer there?

Quite honestly, after reading the posts here it seems there's more angst about whether Terry is equal with her male counterparts, than whether she is being kept from adequately fulfilling the tasks God has given her because she doesn't have an office. Is that what we're about as Christian women in leadership? Offices? Recognition? Making sure we have what everyone else has because we're "so amazing"? If so, I'm deeply troubled and grieved. That is so opposite of what Christ taught those who would serve Him. Our Lord taught dying to self and washing the feet of others. He modeled humility and sacrifice. He urged His followers to count the cost of discipleship before committing to Him, reminding them that "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay His head."

I’m an older woman (56) who as a volunteer in my church has many of the same responsibilities Terry does, and I work out of my home. I, too, have influence with our pastor and elders. Knowing this, my biggest fear is that Satan will use that influence to tempt me away from my Savior. I pray constantly that I will not become prideful and arrogant, and thus shame my Lord. Oh, how I pray we will have the right attitude about ourselves. Let us consider the words of the Apostle Paul in Philippians 2:1-18 and examine ourselves to see if we have the mind of Christ. Then, let’s choose topics for discussion that encourage one another and honor our Lord. Forgive me if I come across harshly. I do not wish to offend, but I am passionate about maintaining humility in leadership.

1. IF Terry is really bothered/impacted by the lack of a specific office space to call her own (and, as others have mentioned, it is not clear this is yet a serious concern for Terry herself), then has she made clear her need for more formal accomodations? Having worked in the business world for years, I know it is all too easy for many women to assume that men will "see" our needs, and we fail to clearly articulate our concerns.
2. Sally's quote from MLK is a good one, but I think we need to ponder it; is this office space issue a thing that "really matters?" We need to be sure we choose our battles wisely.
3. I have avoided large churches for most of my life because it so often seems the "professionalism" of the leadership does not allow enough involvement of every member for Christ. Somehow, this issue confirms my bias.

Weather we as "women" are from a "Mega church or a small one, (even in this 21st century) we're still struggling in our leadership roles as women. I believe and feel that Terry's role as a "woman in leadership" is being Tested. I hope we/she do a lot of praying and wait on God for his wisdom and the direction to take in this matter - ummmmmmph.

I have had the opportunity to serve as Women's ministry Director in our small church in the past and I of course did not have an office.

My question is this: Since Terry is serving in such a high level role for this mega church, does she receive a salary or is this a lay/volunteer position. I would think if she was a paid person on the staff ministering to the Women of the church then she should have her own office. But I also dont think it is worth causing a discension over if she would not get one.

I have found that even though a person may be trusted by her ministry peers she still may not be viewed as an equal member of the team and therefore may not receive an office because of that fact.

Thank you Nancy for helping us to remember that our service to God has nothing to do with the corner office with a view. It has nothing to do with who we can influence in the church. That is pride, and is there ever a place for pride in our service to God?

As I read this article I couldn't help thinking that the comments back were going to be interesting - I wasn't disappointed.

My advice to Terry is to speak to whomever is in charge of office space and lay out her need for an office - NOT her concern over not being offered one. If she knows those offices are being "held", and she's obviously perceived that she's not going to be offered an office, she needs to politely ask for one. The fact she was even speaking to you about this indicates she has some hurt going on there. Terry shouldn't let that develop into a stronghold that Satan can use to disillusion her and cause her to stumble in her ministry.

Is it true that women are perhaps not treated the same as men in ministry? Absolutely. Is it also true that Jesus knows it and will deliver what He feels we need in our ministries if we will ask Him to? Absolutely. Terry needs to put her trust in Christ for her office - not the men she serves alongside.

This also raises the question ladies of whether we are thinking and behaving with clear motives when we accept certain responsibilities - especially when we know that may be unprecedented in our church or ministry area. To not realize that and think through the implications of that before agreeing to serve is foolish. We should enter into our commitments to ministry with a clear commitment to our Lord - not just our pastor. Realizing our own expectations in how we would like to be treated is the first step in not being disappointed. If we can see that we might be serving in an area where women aren't usually seen, aren't we being a little naieve in assuming the men don't see that also? Have that conversation with the man giving you the job BEFORE you enter into it - not after. Many of the comments posted here were from women who went into something knowing it was unusual and then decided to be disappointed when it didn't turn out the way they had expected.

I would have asked for an appropriate place to meet with the first meeting of the first committee. I wouldn't have waited until I was meeting with EIGHT committees and hoping someone would notice.

I had a similar situation with a new senior pastor. It was worse than just having an office (which I did) and eventually led to my resigning my position. Long story short, 3 other women also resigned after I did. It is the consensus of many women in our church that there is a problem with women in leadership and that ministry to women doesn't really matter much. It has been a devastating reality and, instead of helping and encouraging Women's Ministries to grow (which was my plan), it has stopped it's growth and put it back on the shelf to wither. So my advice to you would be to try to work it out as best you can because how the church treats you is vital in letting the members know how valuable you are to the leaders. It sends a huge message. The senior pastor needs to show people that he respects you and values you enough to be a real part of the team - not a tag-along.

There may be a leadership problem here that needs to be addressed. When confronted in our church, the senior pastor dismissed it and barely speaks to me - or anyone else who talks to him about it. My leadership term is over in June and I plan to leave the church...after over 25 years of active membership. It's about respect - not only for the position and the person, but for the ministry and for all of the women in the church.

And let me say that I'm not a bra-burning feminist! I don't think that way. I guess that's why it was such a shock that this happened to me; because in 2007 I expect women to be given a fair shake. Discrimination never entered my thought process. It was a very painful experience. When it happened, I thought it was personal but looking back, I have seen that it was more about women, not me. It's sad. It needs to be addressed because one way or another, it will affect and effect the ministry. God bless you!

It is sad to see that this woman does not have an office given the level of influence that she has at the church. She is indispensable and should be treated accordingly. I wonder why she has not spoken up about this? Her contributions are just as valuable. I too question the confidentiality of meeting in public places, surely there is somewhere at church where she can conduct her business. She should make her needs known and speak up about it. Hopefully, she will be prayerful about the situation and ask God for favor from him and from man

Hmm...a woman who is overseeing 8 highly visible ministry teams? If she is not on paid staff she should resign from at least 6 of those! She must be single or her family would have disappeared long ago.
If she's paid staff, there's no excuse for not even having a desk and phone. When I interned in a church I got my own little office space (big enough for my limited needs and all mine :) If she's on staff and doesn't have an office, that's just ridiculous. (I bet all the secretaries have desks, etc, heck,the janitor in my home church has his own office.)
If she's a volunteer, perhaps she should, as someone wrote, scout out the building and calmly propose an office area for volunteer staff like herself who are meeting in coffee shops, hallways etc. It must be difficult to have to carry around materials etc for 8 teams and keep track of agendas, notes etc. Confidentiality is not just important as far as being overheard but also in that she has no place to store notes that may be of a confidential nature. It may be she prefers to hold some meetings in "plain sight" where it can be obvious there's nothing going on between her and male colleagues. That's often a tough one to resolve.
Someone else observed that if Terry brought up the topic, it's probably bothering her. The problem with "minor" issues like this, is that when they are not resolved, they can lead to much bigger problems or even resignations. They have a way of turning into bitterness if not properly dealt with and resolved.
There really wasn't enough information to draw certain conclusions - perhaps for the next "case study" we could have more concrete details?

I have a yahoo group I would like you all to join... www.theleadershipconnection@yahoogroups.com

The comment I have it that if the Body of Christ to move out, we cannot afford a leg or arm to be missing.

She is a definate asset to the Mega-church.

She is not recognized which leads me to believe the church is feeling inferior to the call of God on her life.

They realize they are not letting her in and they are refusing to follow the leading of God to modernize themself.

God is the author and finisher of our faith.

So she is to still remain lead and guided by the Holy Spirit and pray for a breakthrough.

Along with millions of other women who are overlooked in a mans world of business. They are often called strong willed, when a man is considered assertive, they are often looked at as over emotional on certain issues, when a man is considered observant and on top of the issue.

Double -standard? God is aware of it all, so we must trust HIM.

My humble opinion.
Take it for what it is worth.

God sees her work and will reward her openly in due season....She is a Blessed Woman. Amen.

Dee

I would love to hear the rationale behind why the church hasn't given this woman an office. We can all agree that this is a mistake and believe the church is making a mistake, but I am more impressed with her. She is aware that she deserves and could benefit from an office, but she isn't being negative or resentful. Instead, she is living within her community, doing ministry in the best way possible in her circumstance! Thank you for providing a model for being a woman who is gracious, even under unfair circumstances.

It's not about where the space is to serve, it's about women serving alongside men. It's not about the feminist movement taking over, it's about equal rights. If a man can be called pastor, why can't a female also be called pastor? If Christ was an egalitarian in his actions why does contemporary Christianity seem to be the biggest opposition to females in ministry leadership roles?

In my opinion, Terry's quality performance may be partly due to the fact that she is not too'tight' with the 'establishment'. You may want to rethink this office issue.

Secondly, I cheer on those women who have broken the mould. Such responsibility is a great opportunity to institutionalize recognition of women's gifts in the Church. I suspect Terry probably hasn't given the office matter much thought - and so it should be with pioneers. But Terry should not forget to train more women according to their giftings and helps to integrate them further in the church decision making.That will be an additional service she is doing the Universal Church because so many gifts are going to waste today simply because God gave them to women.

And just one last point: If the church is paying of the places Terry does use, then she has been given an office! Stick withit Terry and pray for other women to be integrated fully in Churhc ministry as you have.

In Christ

I think the biggest issue here is that it sends a message of worthiness. This says that as a woman she is worthy of carrying out the various tasks, yet by the standards of the church she is not worthy to receive an office. The question then becomes what does this do for her self esteem? I think were it not for her dedication to the fact that she is working unto the Lord and not man it could be disheartening. But what happens to the next female that takes on some form of responsibility in that church and is not as grounded? What message are they really sending and do they realize it?