What Women Wish Pastors Knew
August 24, 2007 |
The purpose of my new book, What Women Wish Pastors Knew, is simple: “To help today’s pastor better understand women in the congregation so the pastor can better minister to them.”
My research included survey responses from women ages 18 to 92, working both at home and outside the home in numerous occupations, high school to Ph.D.-educated, married and single, with and without children/grandchildren, and from more than 30 denominations. My mailbox, and email box, were overwhelmed with an unexpected avalanche of responses! (I’m onto a new project: What Pastors Wish Church Members Knew. If you’d like to help your pastor share—confidentially—hopes, hurts, needs, and dreams with church members, email me at cdwg@aol.com and request a “Pastor’s Survey.”)
When I reported the survey responses to groups at the National Pastor’s Convention this past February, they listened eagerly, stated some shock at the findings, and pelted me with hard-hitting questions.
I knew I had hit a nerve.
Researcher George Barna calls women “the backbone of the Christian congregation in America.” Without women, he writes, “Christianity would have nearly 60% fewer members.” I have discovered that George Barna is right on target!
So what did I find?
1. Women are tired. Almost every returned survey included words like “exhausted,” “stressed-out,” “too much to do,” and “worn out.” We’re trying to juggle too many jobs at once. Author John Eldredge writes in Wild at Heart: “Walk into most churches in America, have a look around, and ask yourself this question: ‘What is a Christian woman?’ Don’t listen to what is said, look at what you find there. There is no doubt about it. You’d have to admit, a Christian woman is tired.”
2. Women are hurting. I often received eight to ten pages of hand-written letters from women describing personal painful situations. They mentioned infertility, a child’s suicide, an unmarried pregnant teenaged daughter, “post-abortion syndrome,” a parent with Alzheimer’s Disease, and childhood sexual abuse. They described deep depression, thoughts of suicide, spouse abuse in their marriages, husbands with “dirty little secrets” and secret addictions, the pain of divorce or becoming a widow, intense loneliness, etc. They begged for biblically-based counseling—with another female—sponsored by the church. They also yearned for a church-supported network of women to “tend and befriend” them.
3. Women want to grow spiritually. The majority of women told me they craved church-sponsored Bible study. They complained about “spiritual fluff” in churches today, and yearned for “spiritual meat.” I discovered a deep hunger for theology among women today.
4. Women want to raise godly children. Moms admitted they were “swimming upstream” trying to rear up Christian children in today’s secular society. Many were single moms who needed practical help from the church. Married moms complained about “spiritually-inept” husbands who refused to take spiritual leadership in the home. They asked for the church’s help in teaching their husbands how to be spiritual leaders, good husbands, and loving fathers.
5. Women often feel like “second-class citizens” in church. I heard that expression a lot from singles, divorcees, widows, and also from the young and the elderly who felt they had no place in the church. Women want to use their God-given spiritual gifts to serve God and others through the church. Many, however, are not allowed to serve in what they called traditional “male-dominated positions.” (I found it interesting, however, that those women wanting other women in church leadership roles was equally balanced by those women who didn’t want other women in church leadership roles.)
Women also told me they wanted respect from male church leaders, to serve (in harmony) with men on church committees, to have their insights and opinions valued, to be empowered, equipped, and encouraged by the church to use their unique God-given gifts for God’s Kingdom, and many other things.
I am convinced that when pastors take the time and interest to better understand the hopes, hurts, needs, and dreams of women in the church, the pastor and the congregation will both benefit!
Posted by Amy Simpson on August 24, 2007
Comments
I agree with most of these points.
Another thing women want, however, is an idyllic life, which includes an idyllic husband, idyllic church, and idyllic pastor and so forth. It's tough to make us happy, especially when 2 women's idea of perfection is so different.
Posted by: Rosalie G on August 25, 2007
An interesting, but not surprising, result. We are a church of 1,000 in suburban Philadelphia and have found that traditional women's programming is not just not working. We have planned focus groups for the fall, but I would not be surprised that our findings mirror yours. Thanks for the insight. I plan to order the book that I am confident will help to round out programs that will provide women want they want and need, and may be too tired to ask for!!
Posted by: DK on August 25, 2007
I posted a comment on this earlier, but strangely it seems to have been deleted--so I'll re-post.
Denise,
Did you interview any women in churches with female pastors? I pastored 2 churches and wonder if you can tell me what the women in my congregations wish that I, (another woman who just happened to be their pastor) knew? As a biblical egalitarian, women in my congregations were never treated like second class citizens. Both men and women were considered equal to serve with their God given gifts. I taught mutuality and modeled it in my own marriage. My husband and I, like Priscilla and Aquilla were both spitiual leaders in the home, both did housework, and both shared child rearing responsibilities (Oct. 18 is our 27th anniversary).
Like them, I too was concerned about raising godly children (they're now both grown and out of the nest). I too battled being tired, had areas of hurt in my life, and even with an M.Div. degree there will always be room for spiritual growth in my life. One thing that the women did get in my congregations were sermons of meat not fluff, and for one of our studies I had our adult SS teacher using Gordon Fee's book "How to Read the Bible for All It's Worth." So Denise, please tell me since you did the research, are there other things female parishioners want their female pastors to know since there are a lot of common concerns? Other than having the theological degree, the ordination and being their shepherd we are still women just like them dealing with the same issues. And for a number of us, we have experienced the "second class citizen" piece in the form of the stained glass ceiling.
Posted by: Rev. Carlene on August 27, 2007
Amen Rev. Carlene! Thanks for pointing out that women pastors need to know how to help women in their congregations as well. Not just men. :)
Posted by: Sarah on August 28, 2007
I've found a lot of pastors live out of self-protection, rather than living like the "church". For instance, a friend of mine has a college level diploma in counselling and offered to help with the load of counselling at the church. She was told they only refer to those with a Masters degree. - Self protection. So there she sits unused.
In the life coaching ministry I belong to coaches share their frustrations with trying to become available within their own church - helping Christian women find their life purpose, getting out of ruts, moving forward, having a support and accountability partner.
When we offer our services within the walls of the church we are expected to do it for free and can't be seen as trying to drum up business for personal gain. Because we are set up personally as a small business and charge a fee we become suspect. But how does this fly in the face of Jesus words, "A worker deserves his wages"?
We pour ourselves into our callings and have chosen it over salaried jobs. Why can't we charge for our services? Why doesn't the church utilize us for group facilitations and refer congregants for personal coaching?
One coach did a workshop in her church. Because at the end of the meeting she told about her personal services, the response was woooah - what are you trying to sell us.
I think Life Purpose Coaching may be before its time. It is always hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
Posted by: Rosalie G on August 30, 2007
I just graduated from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary and feel God is leading me to be an Associate Pastor. God has prepared me throughout my life, as He walked with me through many situations to be a leader for women in ministry. I find women are looking for a spiritual leader who will give them the truth of the Word and who will lead them with boldness and sincerity. I attend a church of 1000. We do not have a female associate on staff. Instead we have a male senior pastor and 2 male associates. We need a female on staff. This is loudly voiced by all the women in the congregation, and I have sent a letter to our elders and staff relations regarding this situation. Women need help, leadership, guidance, an ear who will listen and understand, someone who knows where they are in their lives and the stuggles they face. We need more women in ministry like Rev. Carlene. And I know without an doubt that this is where God has called me. But there are men who do not want to see this happen. I am in a struggle as to whether to "shake the dust off of my feet" and move on to another church and offer my service, or whether to stay and fight for the women in our church who so desperately need a leader who cares. I ask for prayer that God will reveal His plan to me and open the door where He would have me serve.
Posted by: Debra on August 30, 2007
To Carlene, Sarah and Debra,
I didn't see anywhere in the original article that said this information was only for male pastor's. I didn't see anything that said there should not be women pastors... only that some women want more women leadership and some don't. That's not surprising... sometimes I want to be with my girlfirends and sometimes I'd rather talk with my husband or other guy friends. I think Rev. Carlene and women can use this information as well male pastors and other men. I don't think it excluded us in the first place. A survey about men doesn't mean it's directed only at women and a survey about women is not necessarily directed only at men.
Posted by: Sherry on August 30, 2007
I agree with Sherry's response to Carlene, Sarah, and Debra. You totally miss the point of the article. Why be so narcissistic about who you are what you've accomplished or have to offer? I affirm your calling as educated women in the ministry. I wish there were more of you, but please, get a perspective! You're not super-heroes. A man could never get away with making the same statements as you without coming under criticism.
Men are hurting in the church as much women, maybe in even more (yes, we do feel hurt, pain and fear). We express it in different ways - not better, not worse, just different ways. We also want to grow spiritually, raise Godly children, and we too can be made to feel like second class citizens of the church because of our age, marital status, and occupation. We desire to br affirmed and to be valued for our god-given gifts.
We need to get passed this "men vs. women" and "we vs. them" if the church is going to function the way it should.
Posted by: Robert on September 1, 2007
As a woman the pastors and other people should realize that women are the same person like any other person. S o the treatment to a woman should not be different from that of the treatment paid to the man.
Posted by: Rev. Damary Anya on September 4, 2007
To Robert and Sherry:
"In Christ there is no male or female..." But many, many churches treat their women members as second-class citizens when it comes to using their giftedness and knowledge in ministry, due to mistaken understandings of Scripture. Thus, in these churches, women's needs, desires, and opinions are viewed as less worthy of serious recognition, consideration, attention, and RESPONSE from those who do lead the churches, at the same time that the churches depend on the women to be Martha-like and get things done. For example, male pastors -- most often the most pastorally learned person in the church -- lead "men's" Bible studies and work closely with men to disciple and equip them for ministry -- but how often do they lead "women's" Bible studies, so that the women can receive the same level of teaching, discipleship, and the small-group and individual pastoral counsel that the men do? If you think, "Well, it takes a woman to minister to women in Bible studies," you are agreeing to the need for male pastors to read the book; how else would they find out about what goes on in the hearts of most women beyond what they have learned from their own mothers, sisters, wives, and daughters? The rest of the "What women wish their husbands knew about..." genre of books on marriage, sexuality, etc. were expressly written for men to read, and the men's wishes books were not written so that men would read them and know how to minister to each other more, so it seems very unlikely that this book was written for women to read, either.
Finally, until male pastors are equally available to women for teaching, small-group leading, "lunch with the gals," individual discipleship, etc., women will continue to receive second-class treatment from those pastors -- and search committees and church councils will need to hire at least one additional pastoral person on the basis of her female gender if they truly want their churches' women to be treated as equals.
Posted by: Robin on September 4, 2007
It makes me sad to think that someone had to write a book to tell pastors about their own congregations? How bizarre. In my job as a manager, I am responsible for the career and talent development of all my employees-both men and women. I, too, have had senior pastors tell me that they are "not called" to disciple women or lead the women or work with women in developing and releaseing their God-given gifts. That always puzzles me? So God wants them to ignore over 1/2 their congregation? Somehow they seem to hide behind the protecting their integrity issue but I do not believe most women are asking for one on one but are asking that the leadership of the church truly be vested in the growth and development of the whole congregation. My perception is many gifted women leave the church and use their talents and gifts in other places-work, schools, their children's focus, etc. My prayer is that men in leadership especially in those churches where women are NOT welcomed into leadership for whatever reason,- make deliberate choices to "know" the women and their needs in their church.
Posted by: trisha on September 6, 2007
Just noticed this website and figured that one of the comments is someone I used to correspond with through the internet. But I lost touch.
Rev. Carlene...if you are the Carlene that I think you are drop me a line.
Posted by: Barbara on September 6, 2007
My question is, when a pastor becomes a widower in the church the congregation of married couples seem to have mix views of that pastor. What can the church do to help support the pastor?
Posted by: Mary on September 11, 2007
It seems as though those churches and denominations which desire to stay the truest to God's word also tend to be male-oriented in their leadership models. It seems as though this is a characteristic of the evangelical / reformed movement.
This seemed acceptable until other fields in women's lives began to be increasingly leveled. In other words, in the fields of education, sports, music and arts, performance, professions, independent wealth and status, power and influence, even family choices, women are finding themselves ever more able to operate at the same level with men: acknowledge, respected and valued as equal partners. Except, that is to say, in the field of church (where the best women can hope for, it seems, is "separate but equal." We know that isn't really ever true, since the pastor teaches and trains the men leaders, but not the women; the men do the strategic planning, the governing, the budget, the programs and so on).
Why? The short answer is wrapped up, I think, in a parallel movement of fewer and fewer evangelicals seriously engaging in "secular" culture, and living more and more in a sort of "protected environment" for Christians, much like we protect fragile eco-environments for vanishing species of plants and animals. Women are allowed to gain ground "out there," where the non-Christians live, but not "in here," in church, where the Christians live.
This sort of split view makes it possible for politicians to say that that their religion is a private matter and has nothing to do with their political decisions. This split view makes it possible for a Ph.D. candidate to write a thesis about palentology from the evolutionist's point of view with absolute equanimity (as featured a number of months ago in the NY Times), and personal sense of integrity, though he is, in fact, a creationist.
This split view says that it is okay for women to "have authority over" men and "teach" men in other environments. But not in the church environment.
Some might argue that there is, actually, a dichotomy between the spiritual and material realms. Secular, or earthly, authority has nothing to do with spiritual authority. I wonder if that is true. I wonder if that is just our western culture influencing our thinking.
I haven't finished thinking about it yet. But I must say, it is strange to me that a vice president in an international business would never be an elder or a deacon in many churches simply because she is a woman, but a man who has none of her education, or savvy and experience, or skills, talents and abilities, could be her "head" simply because he is a man. I understand the "lesson of the Levites" (only Levites could be priests, no matter how unworthy; no non-Levite could be a priest, no matter how worthy). But I think the current interpretation of how church leadership should operate is too simplistic to accomodate what God did back in the Garden with man and woman.
Clearly it isn't working that well anymore. Women are feeling left out, isolated, not valued or understood, under-utilized in the magnificent work of God in their church communities.
What's the solution? I'm eager to find out!
Posted by: joanne on September 11, 2007
"They begged for biblically-based counseling—with another female—sponsored by the church."
This is so important! Why are female staff-members such a rarity in most churches (secretaries and children's ministry aside). Many churches in my area are working hard to make sure staff is diverse--that they include people of many cultures and ethnicities. Yet many churches don't even have one woman on staff! (Again, with the exception being secretaries and children's ministry).
Women need intelligent, Christ-centered councilors to go to with their marriage problems, abuse-related problems, etc. With some problems, for some women, they would much rather suffer in silence than take it to a man.
I also agree with you, Robert. Men are certainly hurting too, perhaps more than women. I wonder if women's pain is driving them to the church, and men's away from the church (little "c").
Posted by: The Walk on September 15, 2007
sounds like a bunch of whining to me. Everyones tired men and women, it comes down to choices we are making of being to busy.
Women and Men are hurting. John chapter 5 Jesus asks a guy who has been crippled for 38 years do you want to get well? Seems like a dumb question but you get use to your hurts and you don't want to let them go. so let them go and stop living in the past and choose to get well.
Women want to grow spiritually stop depending on someone else to read you books and the word. Pick up your cross and move on.
Women want to raise godly children so do men.
No one wants to feel like a second class citizen. So don't your choosing it.
Posted by: darren on September 17, 2007
I am
Posted by: Denise George on February 29, 2008
I had a counseling session with our pastor. I told him right off I was going through a heavy spiritual trial. He had planned in advance what he would talk to me about. The fact that I was going through spiritual torment took last place to his telling me how I should love myself. He gave me a book and said he'd see me in three weeks. The agony I've gone through trying to get help from male pastors is beyond belief.
Posted by: Cheryl Bonham on November 11, 2008
I really hate books like this. They are simply pop psychology sanitized with Biblical references. It is not addressing the true Biblical issues with Biblical answers.
Posted by: Michael on April 21, 2009
I don't think it is a male/female issue.My people perish for lack of knowledge.It is like speaking Greek to a Frenchman or woman.Those who have experienced abusive or destuctive behaviors in the family know first hand what it is like.Just as Jesus came to earth and experienced our fleshly sorrows.But He had the Words of Life and Truth and Love to set us Free.Just like Salvation, until someone has come out of the darkness and been set free, he can't be used to transform other lives.These good Pastor's are not equipped in these areas of addiction, strongholds, abuse, and denial. And do not understand the principles involved in the lifestyle and how to become Spiritually/Emotionally/Physically Free.Those who have lived it,Know it! Freedom! I was Blind, but now I See!
Posted by: Grace on May 10, 2009
I don't think it is a male/female issue.My people perish for lack of knowledge.It is like speaking Greek to a Frenchman or woman.Those who have experienced abusive or destuctive behaviors in the family know first hand what it is like.Just as Jesus came to earth and experienced our fleshly sorrows.But He had the Words of Life and Truth and Love to set us Free.Just like Salvation, until someone has come out of the darkness and been set free, he can't be used to transform other lives.These good Pastor's are not equipped in these areas of addiction, strongholds, abuse, and denial. And do not understand the principles involved in the lifestyle and how to become Spiritually/Emotionally/Physically Free.Those who have lived it,Know it! Freedom! I was Blind, but now I See!
Posted by: Grace on May 10, 2009
My people perish for lack of knowledge.It is like speaking Greek to a Frenchman or woman.Those who have experienced abusive or destuctive behaviors in the family know first hand what it is like.Just as Jesus came to earth and experienced our fleshly sorrows.But He had the Words of Life and Truth and Love to set us Free.Just like Salvation, until someone has come out of the darkness and been set free, he can't be used to transform other lives.These good Pastor's are not equipped in these areas of addiction, strongholds, abuse, and denial. And do not understand the principles involved in the lifestyle and how to become Spiritually/Emotionally/Physically Free.Those who have lived it,Know it! Freedom! I was blind,but now I see!
Posted by: Grace on May 10, 2009
My people perish for lack of knowledge.It is like speaking Greek to a Frenchman or woman.Those who have experienced abusive or destuctive behaviors in the family know first hand what it is like.Just as Jesus came to earth and experienced our fleshly sorrows.But He had the Words of Life and Truth and Love to set us Free.Just like Salvation, until someone has come out of the darkness and been set free, he can't be used to transform other lives.These good Pastor's are not equipped in these areas of addiction, strongholds, abuse, and denial. And do not understand the principles involved in the lifestyle and how to become Spiritually/Emotionally/Physically Free.Those who have lived it,Know it! Freedom!
Posted by: Grace on May 10, 2009