I like this line of thinking. I'm going to chew on it a bit. Sally, you are so right. Perhaps, we forget what we are striving for in the first place. I find it exciting and liberating to realize I don't have to fight for gender equality in the church to do the mission God has given me. In fact, I might find myself doing it much better out in the "flattened world", as you say.

Love, love, love the invitation Laurel and you, Sally, are offering:

"...free to live and lead magnanimously, to function out of our authentic self: savvy, whole-brained, and refreshingly tuned to the now."

The reality is, when we do this, we face much resistance - frankly internally as well as externally - because who we've most truly been created to be brings forth loud, beautiful, bursting-into-the-world life. Though one would think that such would be desired and pursued, it's risky, fearful, and has sadly been met with disdain, contempt, and most-often dismissal. Because of such, we carry our own anxiety about what that would look like and mean as much as those around us!

One would hope, however, that such beauty and life is what the church would (someday) most deeply desire and fervently encourage. Perhaps then more Laurel's would hear and heed the call to lead in ways only yet imagined. Perhaps their ministry at Target would be seen as a model that makes far more sense than the old ones. Perhaps the Laurel's could teach the rest of us how to live in this "flattened" world - graciously, powerfully, with strength, conviction, and passion.

I am grateful that you are a renegade - living and leading authentically. May there be more and more of us...changing the church, living boldly, being who we truly are. Lovely!!! As always, Sally, thank you!

Yes, the flattened world.

Let me tell you of something that happened with me.

My church is what I hope you mean by flattened. It is young and emergent. There are three staff with a philosophy to release ministries as God plants them in people's hearts (any Christian people). There aren't traditional hierarchies or politics.

I was being trained in a course by a Women's Ministries Pastor at a large church.

I presented to her my vision for the ministry I planned to present to my church. She completely discouraged me.

I was told my idea might "detract" from women's ministries, I was told I need to consult with THE Women's Ministries leader (even though I told her there was none).

She said that in her church not just anyone can present an idea and have it "accepted" and they couldn't possibly implement what everyone wanted. (Leadership hording?)

While I wanted to charge money for offering a course I envisioned (to cover time and materials), this woman who led the very same course in her church said as a pastor she would be "suspect" of and outsider coming in to present a for fee class. Yet, she herself had led the same material for pay as she is on staff.

Why be suspect? Either people agree with the concept and join and pay or they go home in a huff and don't join. I don't see a problem myself.

As a matter of fact, this Pastor leads ALL the church women's Bible studies stating "she is paid to do so". She leads a group of 100-200 women at at time. (How effective is that? leadership hording?)

She also said how even putting an ad in the bulletin might make the church "suspect" as to why this different ministry is running concurrently with other women's ministries programming.

I broke into tears, as much for the discouraging words, as for her. I was sad that she is caught up in such politics that is full of protocol, skeptisism, leadership-hording, and what I see as a BLOCK to releasing other inspired women to do what God has asked them to do.

She has no concept of post-modernism.

God, give us more Laurels!! I definitely think Christian women are ready to be innovative beyond the typical Christendom roles. Whenever God has needed a deliverer he went to a woman to birth it. Jocabed - Moses, Hannah - Samuel, and Mary - Jesus. God is birthing something new in our women - a paradigm shift in the way we do minsitry - a getting off the pew, outside the walls of church into the real world. Breaking beyond barriers of normal expectations. Don't allow youself to be stuffed into a box. We need to listen to the call of God to blaze new trails, breakthrough barriers, climb over walls, do whatever it takes to fulfill the passion and mission God is burning in our spirits. No more rearranging the chairs on the Titanic -- on to meaningful ministry fullfilling the divine design within each of us.
According to Barna the church has been so impacted by our culture we don't even glow in the dark. One time when that happened God sent a John the Baptist to pave the way for a new move. John was eccentric to say the least. He didn't dress like a priest, he didn't preach in the temple or within the city walls, even his diet was radical. His father the Chief Priest must have received a lot of criticism over his rebellious son. But John the Baptist was fulfilling His purpose; true to his call. He didn't care what others thought. Laurel sounds a lot like John the Baptist to me. God, give us more Laurels.

When people come and ask a church to do 'their ministry,' they buy into the hierarchy.

People with real ministry find that people are always coming to them - they have to carve out time to get away. Desire for more than that comes from too much need for attention.

One word: Harmony.

God made women different, we need to face the fact. If we stop fighting against male leaders and accept our God-given places of leadership with peace and patience, I have faith our leadership and callings will be accepted by all true God-fearing men and women.

It's not a question of what you can and cannot do, it's about what God wants. It's not about what the church says, but what God says. We all, like Laurel, have a sacred calling. Fighting against the leaders in the church supposedly "hording" the roles is useless. Take that energy, sister and invest it in prayer.

The Lord will reveal to you a calling. If that is meant to be, God will give you the means of acchieving that position.

Have faith in his word! Ask and it shall be given.

Pete, perhaps you are speaking from a male's point of view.

I disagree with you. How can someone come to us if we haven't been given the forum in which to shine?

For my ministry the biggest hurdle is meeting space. I can try to rent a room around the city or try to invite strangers into my home, but having a room in the church to use would make it a lot easier, thus I need to ask the church.

We can say it's not of God or a sister hasn't "prayed" enough, but there are many many times HUMAN's albiet even egotistical control freak Christians, stand in the way! Yes, Christians can prevent God's work from being released.

If it weren't so, why do some churches lose attendance and even die?

Wow - how very exciting that you write about his at such a time as these! When so many churches have lost the evangelical fire - getting out and showing people what life with Christ is REALLY all about by living it, living with them in their non-Christian-like messiness. Without a thought to what attention she is or is not getting...just getting it done! Now, that's leadership!

Yes getting it done sounds appealing!

I read with much interest this article as it is so refreshing to hear this perspective of women and their role in the church. I am part of the Balm of Gilead Community, a group of 3 women who are pursuing God's agenda for our lives to support others and release them in their giftings. We all came from a church that was exclusivley male orientated and where a specifically important word from God was dismissed.As a result the church missed a life changing experience with God and a new direction with Him. In our community we aim to simply hear from the Spirit. We meet in a house. Each meeting is open to what God wants to do. We are now deeper, freer, more joyful and in love with God than we have ever been. We are free from the institutional constraints of the traditional church system but still seek God with all our heart. We are functioning at an organic level and this is where I believe the church will need to go if it is to truly become the Bride that Christ is returning for.

Peace to you,

We are pleased to introduce "Biblical Educational Ministry of Pakistan" who is registered and approved ministry by the government of Pakistan under Reg. # RJSC/Fsd/53 and a Church named S&Y Prayer House who are serving the Lord in the poor Muslim country Pakistan. We are not affiliated with any organization or Church, mean we are working on self-supporting basis.
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Its honor for our ministry that you join us for revival of Pakistan, and we hope our people will also be blessed from our fellowship.
Bible Says:
"And now I have heard the groanings of the people of Israel, in slavery now to the Egyptians, and I remember my promise." (Exodus 6:5)
Praise the Lord! that we are serving the same Lord of Israel and we believe that He will also save our people. Its very easy for you to minister, because this is not a new thing for you to ministering the people.
Bible says:
"Because people who are well don't need a doctor! Its the sick people who do!" Was Jesus' reply." (Matthew 9:12)
Moses & Jonah don't want to go there, but our mighty Lord uses them to serve His kingdom.

Our Boss (Lord) is same, but only difference is that you are serving Him there and we are serving Him in Pakistan. Where Christian being a poor community has to face lot of difficulties, majority of Christian men are addicted or jobless and their wives are compel to work in Muslims houses to earn something for their children due to un skillness they work as a housemaid. Unfortunately their pay is not sufficient to meet their needs but most of them become victim of Muslims sexuality some time they lost their life by denying to do so.
As other third world countries mostly people are poor, so firstly they want to fulfill their daily needs and then they are ready to hear the word of God. In Pakistan 60% of the population is jobless. Many of the younger generation are unemployment due to a lack of skills and they easily become involved with bad people. They are compel to do so because they don’t have enough sources and facilities to get good skill or high tech for better job to make their future bright. This is militating on their future. Consequently they are adopting evil ways. That’s the reason our people produces and helps the terrorists.
Revival Crusades and Seminars are one of the best and effective way to teach the people. We can easily teach Christians among Muslims in these types of meetings.
Now who have burden to teach & preach in the depressed & needy people?
If you are able to help our people in anyway please do not hesitate to sown a seed and do it for the work of God and join us for revival in Pakistan.
If you are unable to come than how you can help us?
Through Prayer Support.
Send your friends for Revival Crusades & Seminars
Through Financial & Moral support
Through religious materials or other things as you like.
We can’t give you any reward for your help, we can only pray for you, but we believe that our Lord will give you reward from the doors of haven.
God blesses you, empower you, strengthen you and encourage you with Holy Spirit so that you may help the needy people more effectively.
Thanks and God bless you all.
In Jesus Love,

Ev. Razia Boota & Pervaiz
Raziaboota@yahoo.com