Caryn,
I wonder how many people googled their own name after reading this! :) I know I sure did. :)

Thank you for this article.
I've just started a Women's group (we weren't sure what to call it)here in rural England. I am American, living in a small village so I am "out there" whether or not I want to be!

I've just come across the Jezebelic spirit in one of the ladies...and oh my, I have had second thoughts about leading this group. Your article encouraged me to not give up!

Bless you, Kathy

Caryn,
I get the putting yourself out there thing. But I don't think it is particular to women in leadership. Men are just as hesitant to put themselves out there in the church today, speaking to lay ministry leadership. Yet I feel in my case, the benefits far out way the criticism. Jesus himself was controversial. If our purpose is to continue the ministry that Jesus started then I guess I am in good company. Don't get me wrong, I did not say it was easy or that I enjoy the criticism or controversy but I feel called to do what I do and those things come with the job description.

What you say resonates with me. At times I am probably treated differently. I am in management in IT. I am the only female that has ever reported to my boss. When I was meeting with him and my hair had been up in a bun which was giving me a headache. Without even thinking about it I pulled the bun out. He got a strange look on his face and said "a guy wouldn't do that". He will admit he isn't sure what to do with me. When I was first in this situation my dad advised me to consider my gender as the last resort to what is happening. It probably causes me to give some too much of the benefit of the doubt but it certainly saves my sanity.
btw I also google myself regularly there are too many crazies out there to not have a good idea what someone can find out about me.

Sometimes I think men fear criticism and mockery more than women do... That despite our being more relational, our skin can be thicker.
I do think I respond to people based primarily on their content/issues and much less, if at all, on their gender.
But very provocative point (and great opening!)

Wow, have you ever hit where it hurts for me! I feel I've been fighting this type of behavior all my life. From the first time I stepped out to become the Music Director in our home church, to Small Group Director in a mission church, and then as the Youth Pastor in a church plant that began in our own home. In each of these settings I faced the harsh reality that I'm a passionate, strong woman, on a mission from God that frustrates and intimidates most male church leaders!

I've asked God many times why I keep running into the same wall time after time. God has shown me that at some level in the beginning these walls of difference came about because of my immaturity in Christ and some sin issues. He revealed to me some areas that needed to be dealt with and changed, which was painful in itself. However, the balance of my experiences has come down to two other reasons: one is that the men in church leadership wanted me to stay in my place, real leadership was their responsibility. Two, that even mixed gender church leadership was intimidated with my spiritual gifting and my power of influence, resulting in changed lives. It's very hard to become, much less live out what God has called you to be when those who are supposed to be "stirring up the gifts inside you" are pushing you down!

This has also had an effect on my husband. As we've journeyed together for twenty-nine years, he's been hurt by all the inequality as my partner. He's shared in my tears, anger, frustration, and even shock as the body of Christ disenfranchises people stepping up to leadership only to stomp them out! He has served as a Deacon and Elder in two of the churches we served at, and both places began to push him out as well when he took a stand for such unchristlike behavior. Currently he will not even entertain the idea of stepping back into the leadership arena, and making new relationship connections is very guarded.

At this point in my walk, I'm still trying to find a place where I can be used for God and His kingdom purposes at any level. I don't pursue leadership roles; I'm just trying to live out my calling wherever God gives me opportunities. We've come into a beautiful body of believers at Faith Chapel Assembly of God that knows of our past hurts and has ministered to us greatly. I'm currently serving as facilitator of a women's study group, a mixed adult home group, and prayer ministry. We're just trying to "raise the bar and keepin1 it real" for Jesus!

Hi Caryn,
I host the website, www.nopaddle.com, about school paddling as physical abuse, sexual abuse, and sexual harassment. Many of those issues spill over into spanking out of school also.
I got a laugh that your "Christian spanking" article was picked up by spanking fetish sites. I'm sure you and many readers have no idea how spanking religionists and spanking fetishists are often standing side by side, singing out of the same hymnal, or how religious spanking tracts are actually seen as erotic to adults who grew up with religicized spanking.
The fact is Jesus never spanked a child or taught anyone else to either. My website is very blunt for those who have trouble seeing this connection with more mainstream articles, but if the site is a bit much you may wish to google USA Today's recent article: "Study: Spanking may lead to sexual problems later"

The first remembrance that came to mind after reading this article was one occasion when I got roped into participating in a panel discussion on women's role in ministry. I made the "mistake" of using the word "feel" in my remarks—at which time I was mocked. Women are supposedly led by their emotions and not by logic which means we are not fit for leadership (I suppose that is the male "logic.")

My answer (what I wish it would have been then): "Jesus wept" and that didn't disqualify Him for ministry any more than any of the other feelings He expressed did.

Life is full of these inequalities, both inside the church and outside. It's another expression of the sinful nature which we will have to live with, and find Christian ways of dealing with, until eternity.

I think that women are treated much differently in the church than in the secular work force. That's not to say that bias does not exist in the secular setting, but we still have many churches that hold to traditional gender roles. I have worked in both settings and find it hard to reconcile the differences.

I am on staff at a church that holds to these traditional gender roles. Part of my frustration is that the Pastor wants to believe that he has a more progressive stance. I am the only female on the ministry staff and, as Caryn pointed out, they really don't know what to do with me. I lead children's ministry, am paid far less than the men,and am offered fewer benefits. Like many women leaders I have a strong personality. I came from a secular job where I had a great deal of authority and respect from both men and women. Now I feel like I have stepped into the dark ages!

I have found that competent women are somewhat intimidating to male leaders in many of our churches.

I encounter this type of treatment frequently and I really don't have a choice in the matter. I am a pastor's wife. We don't get paid to endure such hardship not in monetary means anyway.
It is quite ironic after over two years of constant criticisms and unexpected situations (more than usual) which all stemmed from having to take a stand against an immoral situation involving another staff member, I was reminding myself (just before coming to the computer and discovering this article) why I endure the pain - my comittment to my Lord and my committment to my calling. We are still at the same church because we are committed to our service to the Lord and He has not given us permission to leave. It is not the church that drives me to keep on keeping on, it is who I serve, otherwise I would have given up a long time ago.

Rhonda, thank you for your reminder of how we can and should respond in so many of these situations.

I was in the same position of Becky Davidson for a long time, being the only female manager my vice president had ever had on his team--and then only because HIS boss had promoted me--talk about awkward! It is really hard for some men to understand how deeply ingrained some of their attitudes are, and I had to struggle on a lot of days to avoid being uncivil in my responses. What really made things difficult is that my VP was the father of three teen-aged girls, all of whom he was encouraging to go into business! Sometimes I just wanted to ask him if he ever wanted his daughters to be treated as he had just treated me.

But Rhonda, you are right; if we are in positions where God has led us, secular or church related, we have a responsibility to respond as Christ has called us to do! Thanks for your thoughts from an often difficult position (I have a sister who is a pastor's wife, so I know something whereof you speak)

"Putting yourself out there" seems to be so natural for some of us that we don't alway look were we are "putting". My personality and experiences in life make me a natural leader. I went to Bible College and took classes on Church Leadership. My husband is a minister and I seem to fall into areas that are in need.
I find that I need to watch were I"m going "in the name the of Lord". Just because I "feel" like this is my calling or that God wants me to be in a certain place, doesn't necessarily mean that my feelings are correct. Many things affect my feelings, including my simple desire to help. I have had to learn to submit (very biblical) to the leadership above me. This may be the elders, the minister, the youth minister or my husband.
I would love to say that every time I submitted to the leadership it turned out great, but that is not so. One, they are human also, and two, we are warned in the book of Acts that there will be "wolves in sheeps clothing". They are people who have gotten themselves into leadership roles but, are not godly. Satan is out to attack.
Our church has communion every Sunday and I'm so glad. I am constantly given an opportunity to "examine myself" (I Corinthians 11) (and not the others critizing) so that I can find were God wants me to be.
Thanks for the article - I'm going to google ;}

Because I dare to question and not go along with the crowd, I am labeled as recalcitrant. Thus I often lump myself in with the "mens." But I think of Sojourner Truth, Nellie Bly, Queen Elizabeth I, and a few others who stood out from the crowd and eventually made a difference, even if they didn't live to see it. Oh, and on the Hermaneutics Quiz posted on the Out of Ur site, my score was 76 out of 100. (My husband scored 46, responding "you liberal fruitcake!") Yeah, we are going to have some words...

"Cowardice asks the question, 'Is it safe?' Expediency asks the question, 'Is it politic?' Vanity asks the question, 'Is it popular?' But, conscience asks the question, 'Is it right?' And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular but one must take it because one's conscience tells one that it is right."
-Martin Luther King, Jr.

We all must find our conscience and remember to keep doing what is right.

The reasons you sited on why women shun responsibility interest me greatly. I have been thinking a lot lately about servant leadership and the fact that most of the books written on the subject are by men. Why is that? Is it that our reality as women is not that we grab power and have to be encouraged to be a servant, but that we shun the power we are offered or have ... and prefer to follow the less controversial role (in many of our settings) and become subservient ----
Helen Bruch Pearson wrote in the book "Do what you have the power to do: a study of six New Testament Women":
Power is of God, but like all God’s gifts, humankind has the freedom to misuse power. When this happens, it becomes corrupt, and it violates and dehumanizes others. Powerlessness limits human development and denies persons their promised fulfillment.... We have each been given the power to do what we can do, but are we willing to claim it? To accept it? Or is it safer to ignore or rationalize it away? Is claiming this kind of power worth the cost of change or the risk of rejection?"
May we all be courageous to follow God's call to uncomfortable places

I have really struggled with this question because I am reluctant to say that people treat me differently simply because of my gender. I have worked both in the corporate ennvironment and now as a senior leader of a large church and I have experienced challenges in both environments. I think there is more going on than simply a gender difference. I think personalities and age also play into the equation. For example I have discovered that the younger generation (some gen-Xers, but mostly millennials - those 30 and younger) respond really well to my leadership. I think they have grown up with women much more prominent in leadership roles and so they don't wrestle with the same issues that those in previous generations do. I have also discovered that sometimes those who challenge my leadership really have more of a personality conflict with me rather than a gender issue.

I do sense that some of the male leaders I work with aren't exactly sure how to respond to a female in a leadership role, especially in the church. For some people it takes time to get past some of the views of women in church leadership that they may have grown up with. What I have discovered is that if I am patient, they will eventually grow to respect and appreciate my leadership. Is that fair? I don't know... probably not, but it's worth it if I earn the right to lead them or alongside them.
http://jennicatron.tv

In hurtful situations of commission or omission by men in leadership, God read my heart and advocated immediately on my behalf. Soveriegnly, the Holy Spirit arranged for a representative of the men in leadership that were dissing me to apologize for the behavior of "the brothers." These were genuine encounters, one including footwashing, that brought healing and hope. I purposely reflect on God's love and his point of view when I encounter a double standard, especially in my local church. Lately, he's used Deborah's story to help me accept leading men who don't get it, in church and business.

If God has called us to a particular work or ministry, He will adorn us with a gentle and quiet spirit to strengthen us to trust and hope in Him and to "do good and do not fear anything that is frightening." (See I Peter 3:1-6.)

Hebrews 13:20-21.

There is certainly a lot of prejudice both within the Church, and in the secular world, towards those in leadership. As a woman, I have often been frustrated with the expectations and accusations of others. However, to be fair, men also face expectations they may not (personally) agree with, and can be the object of derision and ridicule, just as much as women can. I have been told since puberty that I am too "aggressive", though I am fully aware that no one would find me so if I were male. I think there is a general misunderstanding about the meaning of the word "gentle". Gentleness and meekness are desirable qualities in men as well as women. Biblical gentleness requires strength, and is not about being passive, weak or timid.

This is a great sit. I feel as if I'm a misplaced MOM. My age, health, and responsibilities would never find the correct space in "The normal progress of womanhood" chart. Oh, it started out fairly normal--the 2nd child and 1st daughter in a family of 12 children (not usual, but normal). Outstanding parents that put God as a priority in all things. As a teenager, my life started to change. The loss of a baby brother right after birth and a few years later when I was 17, my 15 year old sister died tragically in a freak accident.
Life went on and I attended 1 year of college and 3 years of nursing school, graduating as an RN and continued to work in that field for 40 years.
I now am 64 and have 2 sons. One is 35 (single) and doing very well. Our 2nd son (29) is disabled and needs constant attention. When people ask me "How is retirement?" I don't know what to say. We are caring for a son who is like a 3-year-old, but is a young man. We love him dearly, but at timres I feel trapped with the responsibilities. I would rather be on a cruise than at home in an immobilizer protecting my shoulder from when I fell on the ice and dislocated it.
I don't know which age group I belong to...my friends are grandmothers...some are still working...and right now I can't even drive my car.
The advantage is I can't shovel snow. Things take much longer than they usually would take to do.
When I am invited to Senior Citizen activities I am insulted, but then realize that the one asking me is younger than me.
I really don't know where I belong on the chart. I tend to run with the younger crowd, and teach women's Bible classes (I'm the oldest). I'm happy with my life--maybe that is why God put me in so many catagories. I enjoy life and I guess it doesn't really matter what line I fit on, but just that God can use me where I am.