I agree wholly. It's too bad that so many refuse to give these leaders the benefit of any doubt.

I am reminded of George Burns' observation: "It's too bad that everyone who knows how to really solve the problems of this country are busy driving taxis."

Sadly, the same principle is evident in the church.

Weece said, "You chose to value families. People over policy."

Where does the worship of Christ fit into this equation?

As a minister, I think the issue centers on canceling worship on a day that is suppose to be centered on Christ. Too many times the church accuses the world of taking Christ out of Christmas but now the church is the one changing things because a day centered on Christ conflicts with schedules. What kind of message does it send to those who we have condemned in the past? At our church we are rescheduling service times but not eliminating the opportunity to worship on a day centered on Christ.

The fact that some churches are choosing not to offer worship on Christmas Day-- which this year happens to be a Sunday-- really isn't all that surprising to me. I grew up in evangelical churches (Southern Baptist) and have served churches in three denominations (Southern Baptist, American Baptist, and United Methodist) where worship on Christmas Day, UNLESS it was on a Sunday, just wasn't the norm. So if the logic here is that "Christmas practices" trump "Sunday practices," I guess that while I find that unfortunate, I also find it not entirely inconsistent with much of what I've experienced and seen over the years in a variety of evangelical denominational settings. It's not my preference, nor anything I'd advocate for (indeed, in keeping with the larger ecumenical pattern on this, I would advocate for congregations to offer at least one service of Holy Communion on Christmas Day whenever it falls, in addition to whatever they would do on Christmas Eve)... but I wouldn't be ready to call a decision not to offer worship on Christmas Sunday all that insidious, either.

In that spirit, I'd like to post the questions I asked on the previous go-round-- but to which (and probably for no insidious reasons, either!) I didn't see any replies...

1. Does the church with which you are associated (mega, micro, evangelical, contemporary, traditional, "emerging"-- whatever the model) offer worship on Christmas Day when it is NOT on a Sunday?

2. Does your church offer a Christ-mass (whether on Christmas Day or Eve), a celebration of Holy Communion that centers on the Incarnation of God in Jesus Christ?

Peace to you in Christ our Coming Lord.

The media and some parts of the church seem to be confused about how and why Christians worship.

Sunday morning is worship, true. I know this at least because my church employs one of my best friends as the Worship Minister. (That means he leads the choir.)

But worship is about much more than just singing or even attending a service.

I should worship God in everything I do with my life. This doesn't mean I offer cheap lip-service to God for making my life comfortable, talking about blessings when I really mean wealth.

For example, this blog post is an act of worship. The way I greet my family when I go home from work is an act of worship. The way I talk to my co-workers. The dedication I give to my employer. The passion and inspiration I find in teaching or writing or editing or reading or mowing the lawn or ironing my shirts.

Every moment in my life that I give to the pursuit of excellence and service and unity can be worship if I am motivated by a desire to honor God by respecting his creation.

On the other hand, our motivations are important. We can say we are cancelling church on Sunday so families can worship at home (as if "church" is something other than the universal body of Christ scattered throughout the world to do his will). We can use logic to redefine worship in a way that is perhaps more accurate.

But some people will still have impure, self-serving motives. Just like some people who go to "church" on Dec. 25 will have impure, self-serving motives.

Let's all just focus on God this Sunday. He's a big Guy. I'm sure those who look for him will find him--even if they don't set foot in a church building.

What is most troubling to me is not that these churches are choosing to forgo having a “Christmas” service or have service on Christmas. The fact is that December 25th falls on a Sunday this year. Regardless of it being Christmas, I believe on Sundays we should attend our various churches to worship God and have fellowship with our fellow believers and coworkers in Christ. Even if we are visiting with family for Christmas, shouldn’t worship be a part of it on a Sunday?

I have read every post in this long disussion, and I keep seeing many of the same arguments over and over: Meet on Sunday. It's what Christians do.

But it seems to me that those who condemn the megachurch decision to close are demanding that they observe what is no more than a tradition. There is no biblical mandate that we meet on Sunday, only that we meet.

This is clearly a nonessential issue. Nobody's orthodoxy stands or falls on having a Sunday service. Nobody's salvation depends on having a Sunday service.

So where is the freedom to follow the Spirit's leading, and the grace extended rather than condemnation?

These churches reach many thousands with the gospel. How can others, many of whom are not leaders, and none of whom have to make these sorts of decisions, presume to judge them? Have you never read what we are told about judging others?

I was hesitant to wade into this pool, the water and emotions being too hot. But, conviction overcame again, so here goes…
I won’t debate the whole date of the actual birth garbage. It is aside of the issues.
I would like to point out some troubling implications of Weece’s argument:
• He claimed it is everyone else who has a problem with their egos. All the while calling other’s reactions “knee-jerk”, un-Christian, “religious”, “arrogant”, “illogical”, “ill-informed”, “misguided”, and “hypocritical.” It appears his actions are the only righteous actions. Whose ego is front and center of this debate?
• He claimed all the others choose policy or religion over people. I believe when the testimony of Scripture speaks we should give it priority. When Jesus mentions it, it should mean even more (if that is possible). I wonder how Weece would deal with Matthew 12.46-50? By his previous description, Jesus is all of the negative things he called all of us who disagree with his decision. People matter. Family matters. The issue is: who is family? Jesus chooses His followers as family.

I would like to point out some simple solutions that many churches are doing so they can offer a service on Christmas Day:
• Simplify: Most are reducing or eliminating all other volunteer-led ministries in favor of a total family service, sitting together, celebrating together.
• Magnify the important elements: Provide the essential support services. This would greatly reduce the manpower needed to have a Sunday service.
I am sure there are many more options open to the pastor who is trying to offer a worship service on Christ’s birthday.

I would like to point out some troubling issues concerning mega-church worship as implicated by Weece:
• It is about religion. Weece claims by not having the service they are avoiding being religious. So then, every other Sunday must be about being religious to him. Sunday service = religiousness (weak argument I know).
• Family is more important the God. A very clear implication from his justifying comments.

For someone who is supposed to care about “seekers”, he has chosen the one time of the year when all people are confronted with Jesus, in some form or another. People are looking for Jesus and he locks the door.
It appears Weece is the one with the ego issue; the one who is being religious; the one is led by comfort and not compassion. In the final analysis he tried to shame all of us into agreeing with his actions. Shame, an appeal to emotions, is a very poor way of making his argument.

The question I'd raise with our brother at Southeast Christian has nothing to do with Christmas. That's just as he identified it to be - a celebration arbitrarily set on a date. By going down that road he dodged the larger question and the only one that matters IMO.

Do we worship together as a body on Sunday only when the culture and our conformity to it align with our schedules? Or not?

It's really not about Christmas at all. It's about what "worship" has become - a spectator sport that requires a cast of thousands.

Larry, I really appreciate your perspective on this and I continue to be a little surprised at the emotion involved.
Some of you seem to have wrestled long and hard with this issue (and I agree with Larry that it is non-essential). I would encourage you to begin the dialog early with your own elders or pastors or leadership structure so that you can prepare for this decision next year in a way that will honor Christ, affirm your people and fit into your local context. I'm afraid that the days of a single decision on this issue to be enforced in all local bodies has been gone since the reformation.
Somewhere this Christmas, we'll have to establish some trust and relationship with our own leaders and allow our brothers and sisters in other churches to make their own decisions.
I recognize that some are concerned over the timing of the Christmas service and its necessity, some are concerned over the ability for communion to be received and some are concerned over bigger issues--like whether you think megachurches are okay in the first place. If you have a bigger concern than whether it was okay for a church you don't attend to not meet on December 25, then please use your energy to address that issue and don't let this become just one more irritant for an opinion you had already formed.

Taylor, I am so with you on your post. I appreciate much of what the two Davids have posted just above as well--especially Wilson's: "Do we worship together as a body on Sunday only when the culture and our conformity to it align with our schedules? Or not?" I think it's a valid question.

Taylor, I am particularly blessed by your post because of the lack of name calling and arrogant spiritual posturing, and instead your asking questions that ought to be thought through and answered, rather than just argued about.

1. Does the church with which you are associated (mega, micro, evangelical, contemporary, traditional, "emerging"-- whatever the model) offer worship on Christmas Day when it is NOT on a Sunday?

No, unfortunately, it does not. We have prayed about this for at least the last five years, it is our desire, but we don't feel that the Lord has given us an open door to do this just yet. Our continued hope is "next year."

2. Does your church offer a Christ-mass (whether on Christmas Day or Eve), a celebration of Holy Communion that centers on the Incarnation of God in Jesus Christ?

Yes. In fact, that's been the answer the Lord has given us to our Christmas Day prayer thus far... Christmas Eve, midnight candlelight and communion service.

This year, we will be meeting at the Table on Sunday morning as well -- we simply wouldn't want to miss the opportunity to gather on this day (Sunday.) This particular Sunday being Christmas makes Sunday more of a blessing, which in turn causes our celebration of Christmas to be even sweeter. In this case, neither has to trump the other, but both allow for a greater depth and richness which I am very much looking forward to.

It may not work this way for others, but my actions, practices, decisions and habits are a direct reflection of what I am devoted to. So, for me, and to the body I serve, I seek to treasure Jesus (He always trumps everything) knowing that's where my heart will then rest (Mt 6:21). "I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord." (1C 7:35) (Because of the context, this really seems to carry weight for me in this whole discussion.)

The churches that I am aware of that are cancelling Christmas Day Sunday Services are having Christmas Eve Services.

Obviously for these churches, their congregations can still worship the focus of Christmas, fellowship with one another, light the Christ candle and sing Hark the Herald Angel Sing.

Personally, I will be attending Christmas Day service because I cannot cook and do not have far to drive that day so luckly my self-righteous self can go to church that day. But I know several people who love the Lord who cannot because of hosting Christmas gatherings at their homes. What should we say to them? Or is the solution worshipping on Sunday and ordering pizza for everyone? Maybe this year we should have had Christmas at the agnostic Uncle's house while the "true" believers worshipped Christmas morning. How ironic that would be.

Furthermore, I sincerely believe Jesus Himself, would prefer to skip His own worship party and be with His family and remind them that worship is about the nature of our hearts.

I am curious as to what the response will be 11 years from now at our next Sunday Christmas date. Is this a precedent that has been set, or is it an error that will be corrected? By God's grace I plan to be around then for the next round of debates.

I agree with David for the most part. This is not about Christmas celebration as much as it is about Sunday as the first day of the week, the day the apostolic church chose to honor the Lord as a "new" sabbath. Not a legalistic Sabbath, but a celebratory one.

To answer Taylor, I don't think my church (which is quite traditional but often is incorrectly labeled as emergent) had a Christmas service last year (on Saturday) for the simple reason that we don't have our own facility, and only have use of the one we rent on Sunday evening. We did do a combined Christmas Eve service with the church who lets us rent space. This year we are again sharing Christmas Eve with another church and are having our own service on Christmas night.

The other thing I am wondering is this: what about Christmas Eve services? What is the historical tradition behind them? Would it be better for us all to cancel all of our Christmas Eve services in order to worship on Christmas day? I have a feeling that a decision like that would cause just as large of an outcry from the Christian and secular cultures.

This is essentially the first time that I've ever really read a blog and definitely the first time that I've posted a comment. I am simply dumbfounded by the tenor of so many of the comments, from each side of this issue.

To answer Taylor's questions, our church does not typically hold any Christmas day services (Christ-mass or otherwise) when Christmas falls on a non-Sunday. And this year, we have also decided to cancel our typical Sunday services on Christmas Day.

What is possibly unique to our situation is that we have canceled weekend worship several times over the past few years for a variety of reasons. We have sent out our congregation to bless and serve the community. We have called the attenders to try an experience of small group worship. None of these decisions were based on any sort of cultural capitulation or scheduling inconveniences. The decisions were made in light of the Spirit's calling.

What frustrates me about this entire discussion is the presumption that any of us can understand the specific situations and circumstances that apply to any given church where we do not attend regularly.

There is also a rather strange dynamic in these discussions, whereby all megachurches are lumped into one big generic category. But, from what I know, Willow Creek and Southland don't share a great number of church cultural characteristics, other than the fact that they are big (and now, they are not having corporate worship on Sunday morning). I may be misinformed about that, but such is my point. I don't know Willow Creek or Southland or any other church but mine because I'm not an active participant in ministry there. So, what is the value in getting so angst-ridden about what they are doing?

The final point that seems so odd to me is the failure by the harshest critics to acknowledge that every one of these churches (as far as I know) are holding multiple corporate worship services on Christmas Eve. The question that so many have posed is basically, "How can you justify not coming together in the house of the Lord to worship Him precisely when we have chosen to celebrate His birth?" But each one of these churches are investing themselves wholeheartedly and exhaustively in working with the Spirit to create meaningful worship experiences for church regulars and seekers on Saturday afternoon and evening. Unless someone is willing to argue that Sunday morning worship is an absolute biblical mandate (and given the various refutations of that claim, I wouldn't recommend it), then this criticism holds no water. These congregations are worshipping together. They are celebrating His birth. They are providing opportunities for the lost to come to know Christ. It's just happening a day earlier than normal. Where is the problem?

Reading Chad's comment reminds me of the times we canceled services because of snow (back when I lived in Tennessee). I'm struck that many arguments against those of us who aren't meeting would also apply to those who have ever canceled for inclement weather.

Do we really believe that the doors can never be closed on a Sunday? I can think of many reasons to shut the doors, as mentioned in a comment above. One church here in Dallas regularly does so in order to rent a park and celebrate baptism together, out in public and everything. Sometimes they close because the school they rent to meet in needs the building. If the son of the pastor dies (yes, I have an incident in mind), could the church meet together for a funeral instead of at the church building? Could a funeral be an appropraite act of worship in such tragedy? Absolutely, but the leadership of that body would need to make that decision, not me.

As for us, we're not having services but have four on Christmas Eve. However, I'm actually skipping entirely and taking vacation in order to be with our families back in Tennessee. The arguments that have been used above and in the previous post would also apply to many pastors who might dream of taking a vacation that would let them miss a Sunday. I'm just not so sure Jesus would get worked up about this--each local body has to make it's own decisions here and we need to let them. If they start skipping Sundays so they can squeeze in time to worship a couple of other gods, then we should get upset.

How about this? What would Jesus do? That question has become a bit trite over the last few years, but it is an important consideration nonetheless. Compare the decision and the responses to it to the Pharisees and Jesus as found in the Gospels. What do you see?

Perhaps this is a time for some of Paul's situational ethics from Romans 14.

Many don't give them the benefit of the doubt because some have been to the megachurch, know it's workings and fear that the leaders and founders are like the superapostles that Paul talked about. Too many similaries, even 2000 years later. It's a free country and they are free to worship however, and whenever they want...they provide a great service for those in need of self-help and motivation seminars...and if they want to use Christianity as a foundation then that is their right...that doesn't mean they are part of His Church...just means that it's a free country.

This is my first ever post to a blog. So forgive me if I am not doing this right.

You know what I think is funny? 99% of the people who are complaining or debating this issue don't attend the churches that have decided not to hold Sunday service on the 25th. Of that 99%, I would bet that 50% don't even attend church regularly, if at all. A co-worker was speaking about this the other day and saying "how awful it is that they are not having service on Christmas Day". I asked them, "were you going if they did?" Thier answer was "uh... well...uh....I...uh... no." Then I asked, "when was the last time you went?" and they then asked to change the subject. I asked them to attend a Christmas Eve service with me, but they declined. Just as they have declined the other 100 times I have asked. One day they will accept and oh what a blessing that will be !!!

I attend Southland, and despite the press reports, the church is behind our Elders and Pastor (Jon Weece). How many of you witnessed the standing ovation from the packed auditorium he received last Sunday during his response to the press? I did.

How many of you will go out and "be the church" Christmas morning as many Southland members will be doing instead of holding a traditional service? Worship is not a "Sunday only" activity. My life and how I live it is an act of Worship. I am not just a Christian on Sunday morning for an hour.

I could go on and on, but I will just ask one more question:

What about those who could not attend church on the 25th because of health issues, injury, weather, family gatherings, etc? What do you say to them? Do you make a national issue of thier non-attendance?

putting "People over policy"......isn't that what Jesus did when the Pharisees condemned the disciples for "harvesting" grain when they were hungry, walking thru a field on the Sabbath?

The problem is not the closing but the stated reasons for closing. They said they were closing for family. I guess then, they close church on Mother's Day, Father's Day, and Grandparent's Day. If not, then it is hypocritical.

The problem is not the closing but the stated reasons for closing. They said they were closing for family. I guess then, they close church on Mother's Day, Father's Day, and Grandparent's Day. If not, then it is hypocritical. Is not family important on those days? What then about Birthdays of people in the church? Should we close for each individual's birthday so they can spend the day with their family? Worship how you want and when you want. Just don't blame it on the love of the family.

Truthfully, I don't see what the huge deal is. Let every church decide for itself what it should do on something like this. It's an area of personal opinion - last time I checked Scripture didn't say "thou shalt be at church on Christmas..."

The pharisees used to make a huge deal about the Sabbath and had all these thoughts and opinions that got laid on everyone else. As a matter of fact, Jesus ended up in direct conflict with them as a result - because the legalism of the whole thing overshadowed the reality of it.

Ever think that maybe one of the most worshipful things we could do on that day would be to spend it with our families. Particularly when church staff and volunteers are so busy every other day of the year. Sure, maybe its a cultural thing here in the US, but when has the the cultural context ever been absent in shaping the way the church interacts with the larger society. Maybe that's how the whole Christmas holiday got started to begin with considering it used to be a pagan holiday?

Don't make laws about things that God didn't feel the need to make.

The only trouble I have with the decision to close churches on Sunday is in relation to those who would only attend on a holiday such as Christmas or Easter. I know that many people flock to churches on these days so they can "feel accepted" or get their "church" in for the year. I see it however as an opportunity that God has ordained to open the door and share the love and truth of Christ with them. I know that the Holy Spirit can penetrate any heart, cold or hard, it doesn't matter- and I believe that by shutting the doors of a church on Christmas day- we may be denying some non-believers the opportunity to come into a connection with Jesus this Christmas holiday.
I'm not going to debate over the historical significance of Christmas- but you can take it for what it is worth. Our purpose as Christians is to "Know Christ and Make Him Known" and I feel that by closing the doors we are neglecting the opportunity to share Christ with those who do not know him on a day when they will come without hessitation. If these churches are open across America and only one person comes to know the Lord Jesus because of it- Praise be to GOD! He will be glorified through that- better that one person is saved from eternal damnation than to give families a few extra hours to be together.

Pastor Weece's defense sounds like it came straight from Karl Rove's playbook: those who disagree with him are not only wrong, they are helping the devil stir the pot.

I left the church in my teens - returned (or more accurately finally arrived) in my thirties. One of the reasons I left was the in-fighting, bickering and criticisms over issues like this. I returned because I met a God who is bigger than all of this.

Perhaps we could all try trusting a big God while extending a little grace to brothers and sisters we may disagree with...resting in the hope that God will not allow one person to arrive at eternal damnation because several churches chose to have Christmas at home (which may be exactly what God intended for those churches in the first place).

I was raised Catholic; I am not evangelical, so my comments are for comparison purposes and historical perspective only. One point that may be influencing the larger, national-level discussion is that Catholicism is now the largest US Christian denomination, so for many Americans, Christian or otherwise, Catholic is the "normal" or default value of Christian. That is certainly the case in the Northeast, for example.

For Catholics, Larry's statement that "Nobody's orthodoxy stands or falls on having a Sunday service" is untrue. Christmas, whether Sunday or week day, is a Holy Day of Obligation, so not attending Mass on Christmas is unthinkable, and a Christmas that falls on a Sunday actually is *easier* than one on a weekday, because you were going to church anyway.

In my youth (more than 30 years ago), you could go to Christmas Mass on Christmas Day, or you could go to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve, which began no earlier than 11pm. It was a sign of approaching adulthood when a teenager got to go to Midnight Mass, because that meant you were going to be staying up until 2 AM and not getting up at dawn to unwrap presents like a little kid. And the Midnight Mass was always the coolest, because they began with all the lights off, then candles were lit and passed from hand to hand.

Most families went on Christmas morning, and we cooks usually went to an early service (sometimes at dawn, before 8 AM, which was a wonderful and special experience), then came home and put the food in the oven to be ready for the big dinner in the early afternoon. Most of the families with children went to Mass at 10 or 11 (one of these was usually the "Children's Mass), and those services were packed to the walls, like Easter, with the full chorus and musicians.

When I hear of any church of any denomination cancelling services on Christmas Sunday, it's a deep shock because I'm thinking of the huge Christmas morning services of my youth.

But what you-all talk about happening at evangelical churches seems to me to just be a more obvious example of a general situation. If you surf around to the websites of Catholic churches, you'll see that many now have an extensive schedule of services on December 24, and no more services on Christmas morning than for a usual Sunday, often fewer. The "Children's Mass" and the big choral Masses are now on Christmas Eve, starting around sunset, and there may be 3 or 4 services on the 24th.

It looks to me, as an outsider, as though Christmas worship for *all* American Christians is moving from December 25th back to December 24th, it's just happening faster at the cutting-edge megachurches.

As for why this is, you might ask your congregations. Is it because the secular gift-giving part of Christmas is on the 25th, so the religious part moves to the 24th? Is it because extended families often don't all go to the same church, so there's less tension if the big family dinner is on a different day than the church-going? (don't knock reduced family tension as a motive, please)

Or is it something as basic as the desire for adults, especially Moms (e.g. me), to be able to *sleep in* and make it truly feel like a holiday? Frankly, *all* traditional holidays, Christian or otherwise, involve a lot of work for Mom, and sometimes the best present for Mom is to give her some time to actually rest.

Yes, the church I pastor has a Communion Service on Christmas Eve. Yes, we will conduct a worship service on Sunday, December 25th because it is Sunday, December 25th. Whether it were Christmas, or any other date, we would conduct a worship service.

There are good thoughts on both sides of these discussions, but the real point is that as Christians we have committed to Sunday as our "Sabbath" Day of Worship. What better theme can you have laid in your lap as a minister than the birth of the Savior!

Wherever a Christian chooses to spend Christmas Day, hopefully, Christ will be at the center.

Dear Christian Friends and others interested in this discussion:

I have enjoyed reading the comments ahead of this response. The comments today by "Doctor Science" were particularly helpful as a view into the experience shared among Roman Catholic worshipers.

I serve a new church development, Morning Star Presbyterian Church, in Surprise, AZ. We anticipate a fairly good number of people at worship this Sunday in a school cafeteria we rent after a larger group gathers on Christmas Eve in a chapel we are allowed to use at a neighboring Faith Presbyterian Church (PCUSA as we are)campus in Sun City.

We had no discussion concerning Christmas Day worship, but we did ask people to let us know (marking "C" in the worship registration booklets) if they expected to be with us on Christmas. This allows us to plan a service and arrange seating to really work well with the number of people coming.

This number, we hope, will be larger than those responding on the registration booklets. We anticipate visitors and have no intention of shutting our doors on any Sunday. It is hard enough to get an open door for contact with people looking for God's love (whether they define such a search explicitly for themselves). We would be ill-advised to close our door on a day that may prompt an unusual visit to a church service by someone!

Another factor, I'm sure: I selfishly look forward to being able to preach on any occasion, even as I appear to have done in this place.

Yours for worship all the time...

John

If we are the CHURCH why should it matter whether a building closes its doors on Sunday or not? Have we concluded that the church is only contained within four walls where we choose to meet? Perhaps if we really believed the body of Christ is a living organism, in believers, then issues of closing the doors to a building would not matter.

I can't help but wonder what it might be like for some family who would like to worship with other Christians.

TWAS THE MORNING OF CHRISTMAS

'Twas the morning of Christmas, and though we did search,
Not a creature was stirring, not one was in church.
The pews were all vacant, the pulpit was bare.
They stayed home with Santa, because the family was there.

My family was dressed up as we were driving our Ford,
We were looking for people with whom to worship the Lord.
We drove to a large Church to sing and to pray,
With others who should be there on this the Lord's day.

We pulled into the lot and saw no one was there.
We walked to the door and received quite a scare.
Because what to our wondering eyes should appear?
A big sign that said "Leave, for the Lord is not here."

"We have decided not to worship this day.
Corporate worship is a tradition that with us, holds no sway.
It doesn't matter what Acts 20:7 might say.
Worship is like Burger King, simply "Have it your way."

"If your reading this notice and growing quite sad,
It doesn't matter to us, that's just simply too bad.
What you show through your sadness is that you're 'misguided and jealous.'
Like a Pharisee of old, your zeal is too Zealous."

"Don't argue with us because we've already decided.
If you don't agree with us, for that you'll be chided.
To tell us to open our Church doors is so evil.
To do so will make you a tool of the Devil."

"If your desire is to worship the Lord this Lord's day,
Well it won't be with us, so there's no need to stay.
Go home and open presents with your girls and your boys.
Then call it worship by giving away all of your toys."

"You see worship can be anything that you do.
Give a gift, blow your nose or go shine your shoes.
It's all considered worship if you do it for Him.
So on the Lord's Day there's no need to meet with Judy or Jim."

"Corporate worship is outdated, antiquated and old.
Today, there's no need for you to get out in the cold.
Give a gift to somebody in the world who is needy.
Then stay in bed and watch our worship DVD on your TV."

It took me a moment to understand what I read,
Then I turned to my family and I said with great dread.
Today in this Church there will be no great crowd,
For to worship with this group today's not allowed.

My son in his innocence said "Dad that's just not fair."
"The Lord died for us to show us He cares."
I said, "I know son, what your saying is true."
So let's go find Christians who want to worship with us too."

So my family and I got back into our Ford,
And we went to find a place where we could worship the Lord.
And I heard my son pray as we drove out of sight,
"Lord have mercy on our souls if you come back tonight."

Tim Lorenzo

Having attended Southland Christian Church for several years while I lived in Lexington (before I moved to Louisville to attend seminary), I am familiar with Jon Weece and his ministry. Southland has long been a church devoted to loving God and loving people, and sometimes they break "The Rules" to do it. Sometimes they depart from the "But that's the way we've always done it!" thinking that permeates so many dying churches. But self-serving motives are not catalyzing their decision-making on this issue (or others). The Southland congregation has been rightly challenged to "BE the church" rather than be IN the church on Christmas day. Additionally, families have been given guides for how to worship and grow together with their children at home on Christmas and during the days before. Surely, this is at least as valuable an opportunity for worship and growth as attending the typical candlelight-and-carol services that most churches will offer.

I don't mind breaking "rules" if they are man made rules, but I've been kinda of surprised that there haven't been any scripture reference listed in the responses. In II Thess. 2:15, Paul tells this congregation to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." We are not suppose to make up our own rules.
The first church (recorded in the book of Acts) examined scripture daily (Acts 17:11) and in Acts 20:7 and again in ICorinthians 16:2 "rules" for the church are given for when they "met on the first day of the week." They met to break bread(each week) they met to take up a missionary offering, for a sermon and for fellowship (Acts 2:42) We are to "BE " the church everyday. But, the practice of the first church was to meet together on the first day ... the day of Jesus resurection.
It was also pointed out that Christmas is not a scriptual day. Jesus birth was probably in the spring. Our family has decided that moving Christmas is better than moving the Lord's Day, so we are celebrating our family time on Tuesday the 27th. (That way we can also enjoy the after Christmas sales! ;}
If the reasoning behind moving Sunday is for family - family can celebrate anytime.
After all the fussing that has done over taking Merry Christmas out of stores and then to have churches turn around and declare it too much bother for Sunday morning ... what are we really telling the world. We can and should worship everday, but loved ones...this looks bad.
I don't think Jesus would miss church with His familly, to open presents with His family.

"Christmas began as a pagan holiday to the Roman gods"

I don't think that's true, Pastor Weece. Among other places look at William Tighe's fascinating pieced from Touchstone Magazine a couple of years ago :

Calculating Christmas: The Story Behind Dec. 25
http://touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-10-012-v

And many others have made the point , but I have to say the same thing :

If you are not having worship at your Church on this Holy Day of Christmas because "this is a time that families should spend together " how is it that they can't be together at Church on Christmas Day , then go home and be together some more after Church ? They're together in both places, Church on Sunday morning , and home in the afternoon and evening .

Keep the Christ in Christmas , but also let's keep the Mass in Christmas .

I haven't read all of the comments on this matter, but it seems to me that we are living in an age where folks want the worship hour to be no more than one hour long, less if possible, and above all no extra worship during the week. I would sincerely hope and pray that we can experience a revival in our land that might spread out across the boundries and circle the globe with love.

I will add a few observations.

In my in ministry, I have gladly conducted worship for a group as few as five. I currently serve church which averages 70 in each Sunday service. In this setting, some might say it is not worth having a service if less than ten would come. In a "mega" church it may seen not worth having a service if less than 100 would come. I still think that where 2 or 3 are gathered together, the Lord is there.

A few years ago, when I served a larger church, one of the older members thought it scandalous that we had only one service (not two) on Christmas Day. I have also noticed over the years that New Year's Eve and New Year's Day worship tend to have declining attendance with a mostly older crowd, and these services also are not as common as they once were. My current church does not offer them, and I am not encouraging it.

One more observation. My church has a Germanic (Lutheran) heritage and it seems that Christmas Eve is the most popular time for Christmas worship. My wife's family is from Norwegian (Lutheran) stock and her family (including her grandfather, a pastor) always stayed home on Christmas Eve and went to worship on Christmas Day. I wonder what the trend is in other ethnic groups.

I am a Vietnamese refugee and, sadly, all these arguments about celebrating the Lord's Day this Christmas or not remind me that I have forgotten how wonderful it is to be able to worship God together freely with others and not get into trouble with the police.

A few months ago I helped translate for a Vietnamese pastor who was visiting a Christian publishing company in the US. He was surprised that some of his old Vietnamese congregation members, who were so lucky to move to the US, no longer kept the daily gathering for prayer and worship like they had done in Vietnam. They used to meet early in the morning before going to work. Some had to take an hour or so to get to the church. Here, they told him that people in America only worship on Sunday; besides, it's too cold so early in the morning.

I believe these Vietnamese Christians didn't go to church daily in their country because they had to, but because this was the time where they received their daily strength, peace, encouragement and guidance from God and from each other. They also did this because they loved God and they loved one another. They did this because it's satisfying and it fed their hunger for more of God. They did this because, just maybe this was the last day they could worship before the police found their house church and closed it down…

You may say, but this is America, who cares, we can worship whichever way we think fit. But I am reminded of Hebrews 10:24-25: "And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another -- and all the more as you see the Day approaching."

Christmas Eve in Vietnam was truly magical and full of wonder as we waited for Christmas Day, our Lord's Birthday. Usually, we would be worried about the shelling and rockets that always came at night, but on Christmas Eve, as we sang and recited the Gospel story of the birth of Jesus, we were given this indescribable joy that overcame our fear, and a sweet hope that our worshiping Him and preparing for His Birth would bring the greatest peace that we all longed for. For many Vietnamese Christians, Christmas Day marked the first day of the New Year: Sunday school teachers gave the children gifts -- fruits, soap, toothbrushes and toothpaste, I still remember! -- and a big pot-luck feast after the Christmas service.

As long as I live, I will thank God for this free country. And I thank you for bickering about this Christmas Day 2005. You have helped me to re-examine my own heart and see where my Lord is in all things: how I live my life according to what He has taught me, how His love for me has changed me, and whether my own love for Him is visible (not necessarily audible) through me and my relationships with others.

I am genuinely glad that Americans don't have to go through persecution for their beliefs, but, at the same time, I've begun to be keenly aware of the blessing of the hardships I had to go through. Without such hardships I wouldn't know the incredible joy of being in God's presence and the great pleasure of worshiping Him, in His house, freely with my brothers and sisters, let it be on Christmas Day, the Lord's Day, or every day. It’s a privilege.

Why does December 25th have anything to do with whether or not we worship on Sunday? Since when is worship, or the lack thereof, for the benefit of the worshiper? I thought it was by the worshiper, for the only One who matters.

I go to Southland Christian church. At first it really upset me that so many Christians were putting up a fuss about our decision to not hold services on Christmas morning. But then it came to my attention that it's okay and even good. If Satan were okay with our decision then no one would be upset. The devil hates what's going to happen Christmas morning as a result of Jesus’ love flowing out of his disciples. I’d encourage everyone that listens to Jon’s message to go out and spread Christ’s love on Christmas day!

David asked:

If you are not having worship at your Church on this Holy Day of Christmas because "this is a time that families should spend together " how is it that they can't be together at Church on Christmas Day , then go home and be together some more after Church ? They're together in both places, Church on Sunday morning , and home in the afternoon and evening .

I believe this doesn't work for many people because Christmas is a time *extended* families get together, and many of us have religious differences within our extended families. For all members of an extended family to be in the same church (or even the same denomination) is now rare, and I'll bet it's particularly rare for mega-churches. Your system is perfectly traditional and is still followed by many parish-based Catholic families, but if there are religious differences within the extended family it's a recipe for resentment or outright conflict.

Theoretically, religious differences within an extended family could be an opportunity for evangelism; in practice, they more often lead to shouting, tears, and acid reflux. I'm not surprised that many families decide to celebrate the birthday of the Prince of Peace with actual peace.

I also think you're overlooking the extent to which Americans at Christmas travel to be with their extended families. Here again, I'll bet that megachurch members are more apt to travel than other Christians, and so are less likely to be at their usual home on the 25th.

With a world that is leaning more toward getting rid of religious symbols and contents in schools, communities, and in public, I believe we should use this Sunday to step up and show the world how real we are about our faith.

We've been grilling retail stores, the ACLU, and hard core left politicians that we need more Christ in Christmas. We were outraged about the whole "Happy Holidays" and not being able to display religious themes in our yard.

Now when we have a chance to show the world how much we really love our God, several churches have decided to close. I think that it's a slap in the face and a set back for us.

The world is not changing anything on Christmas. Kobe is still going to play Shaq, there's going to be some football games, news reporters will still report the news. But the church is changing to make the day more convient.

Without Jesus, there would be no Christmas. Now we have a chance to celebrate the day in his house and we don't. The day is about him and we can't lose sight of that.

Merry Christmas to all the Mega churches
leaders, too bad not all memebers are looking
for physical fellowship but Spiritual connections on Sunday the happens to fall on
Sunday.
This has certainly sent negative message to our ministries in the 3rd world. and specially what America is trying to accomplish its presence in the Muslim world.
Should not have made a media converstaion
This impact is devestating.How can we fix the problem?

If, and I agree, Christmas began as a pagan holiday to the Roman gods and is not Jesus' actual birthday, there is no legit reason to cancel Sunday services if Christmas happens to fall on that day. This pastor has, himself, defeated his own argument. If you are a Christian, Sunday is your Sabbath, period, not to be trumped! They preach "fellowship," but close the doors on the day we are supposed to celebrated the birth of the baby Jesus.
It is the arrogance of these baby boomer, elitist megachurches that allows them to do as they please. Just question one of them and watch how defensive they become. They have the canned answers for everything.
A reply I received on the subject, and I quote, "We are doing this for families, those little churches have to have services on Christmas, they need the money."
Listen closely to the megachurch goers near you, it is frightening what they believe. They and only they have the Holy Spirit, all denominations and other religions are wrong and they "believe" better then you or I or anyone else.
I have never been introduced to a more arrogant, judgemental, superficial and ignorant group of people.

Wow! What a lot of interaction on this subject. It seems we all want to get it right and be right. I too was disappointed in the lack of Biblical perspective on most of the reasoning put forth. Romans 14:5,6 is helpful to me on this one."...Some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. Each personshould have a personal conviction about this matter. Those who have a special day for worshiping the Lord are trying to honor him..." and then also conclude by reading verses 10 -12. I think we move into the danger zone when we try to nail down for others convictions over which God has given us some latitude. Perhaps He has given us that freedom so that we don't become to legalistic. I hope that each of us were able to show Christ's love and message of the wonder of incarnation this Christmas, and that we enjoyed however we did it.

Two thousand years of tradition accross religious lines should say something about the LORD's day. I know Jon Weece's father. I wonder what his take is on this? Also, it is not just Xmas. It is Sunday--Mia Ton Sabaton. On the first day of the week etc. We do not operate on a lunar calendar. Culture is not evidence. Jon should just suck it up and drive on. I think unfortunately that the example set by megachurches in this manner is what most people will remember rather than there examples of living Christianly

I happened to run into this discussion in February. I am a catholic who used to be an evangelical. To the catholic lady, Christmas starts on the evening of December 24 because the jewish custom, and all the first christians were jews, the day starts on the evening. We celebrate on December 25 because Jesus associates his birth with Hannukah in the gospel of John. John calls Hannukah the feast of Dedication. The jewish feasts were celebrated on a lunar calendar.Pope Gregory changed the calendar to a solar calendar. All the events of Jesus life were associated with jewish holidays. Easter is associated with Passover. Dec 25 was not Jesus real birthday, but it is a liturgical calendar replacing the Jewish holidays which were instituted for all time. Therefore, since the holidays were instituted for all time, to not attend on Christmas is wrong. The mega church is just another consumer activity, so of course since they are really a "store" they close on Christmas.