One of the best classes I have taken was Theology and Film, from Craig Detweiler at Fuller Seminary. A great class, and it caused us to think in new ways about an important part of American culture.

Actually, as a Christian I realize that their is a gulf between the Christian 'culture' and the secular culture. And to be honest I am fine with that. Jesus and the NT said that we would be different, aliens in this world. When I travel overseas, my culture and the one I am visiting is a huge gap normally. I can learn about that culture and I can live in it. But it is not my culture.

When I decided to follow Christ I renounced the 'culture' of this world. As I walk with Him, I am going to become more like Him and that is going to separate me from the 'culture' of this world. I still interact with the 'culture' of this world and engage it, but I don't think we need to allow it to change us, as it will affect our relationship with the Almighty!

My thoughts!

How do you integrate Philippians 4:8 into a "gritty film about sex trafficking"? There are a lot of things in our culture that we cannot avoid, but I cannot see the benefit of encouraging believers to absorb any kind of visual pollution.

Truth Seeker,

The dominate culture around us is constantly affecting (dare I say "changing") our churches and the people who attend our churches whether we like it or not. The challenge for Christian leaders is whether they will choose to interpret the forces at play within culture, or simply bury their heads in the sand at the expense of their congregations. This "interpretive leadership" as Craig put it, is an important task that cannot be ignored.

I feel so closely to your blog, David b/c your thoughts about film are how I live every day as a film critic and Christian. I've learned to find God in every film I see and I must say that I've been successful most of the time b/c films capture people, God's creation, God's handiwork. My pastor used to always say, "You better find God in movies." I think what he meant was that we should always be careful to listen for God's voice in every situation we find ourselves, otherwise another message/voice (usually an opposing voice) will prevail.

Truth seeker, when you decided to follow Christ, to where did you think you would be following Him? Because He's not moving away from the world and its "culture", He's working in it, moving towards it like a shepherd seeking lost sheep. You are right that we should not swallow whatever the world around us presents without using discernment, but that doesn't mean we must abandon the culture around us. Christ redeems not only individuals, but cultures and art forms and nations and science as well. So I think in the area of film, wisdom and reflection is needed. If you think a particular film is not going to be beneficial for you, don't see it. But perhaps some good can be found there. In our "Christ-haunted" culture (to borrow a phrase from Flannery O'Connor) many films can reflect a profound understanding of redemption and forgiveness, and convey that echo of the resurrection far more vividly than "Christian" films like the well-meaning but ultimately boring and confusing "The End of the Spear".

Travis,

Can you point to me where Jesus said that he came to redeem cultures, art, science, and nations?

Because, with all due respect, your argument falls on this point. Nowhere did Jesus say that He was coming, or will come back, to redeem those things. He said I have come to seek and save the lost, not art, not science, etc. If anything that goes completely against what was revealed to John on the Island of Patmos: that when Christ returns he will destroy the world in fire and replace it with a new world.

Please show me where Jesus says that we are to redeem art and other stuff. I also have the question that if a film is inherently wrong and is not glorifying to God in that they pay due respect to Him, should we even bother with it? Sure, it may have a nice little story about forgiveness and all, but when compared to the story of the Gospel, it is a paltry, second-rate, B budgeted, waste of valuable film, movie!

For the sake of my family, children, church, and relationship with God I am going to flee the trappings of this world. I choose not to look at most art and movies as most of it is porn now-a-days. I do get into science, but I reject the "modern" evolution stuff. I prefer a pre-modern view. Politics is one where it is a necessary evil to be involved with, simply because we need to know, but at the same time it should drive me to my knees which it does most days. If anything, the culture, art, movies, science, and politics of this day make me weep as we are so far away from God and we, as a nation, have turned our backs on Him.

So, when I decided to follow Christ, it led me away from the world and closer to Him.

Dawn,
Be careful that you don't spend more time trying to 'see' God somehow in secular movies than you spend trying to see Him by spending time in the Bible. Time (and I mean lots of it) spent with an open heart and mind in God's Word will bring God much more clearly into view for you because that is where He has chosen to reveal Himself.

Two quick points. 1) I don't need to watch porn, snoff films etc to know that they are out there and to know that they are wrong and 2) I do not need to give my money to people who see things like Dakota Fanning's "rape" as art and entertaining.
As a youth Pastor , I am in tune with what kids watch, but often, the commercials communicate enough to know the content without having toplace unGodly images in my mind.
I will set no worthless thing before my eyes- Ps. 101. And are we "sitting in the seat of mockers" when we sit for hours ingesting the philosophies and religion of those who reject the Lord?
Not all movies are wrong to watch, but that is not to say that they are all redeemable because we find 90 seconds of "truth" in 100 minutes of filth.

This discussion reminds me of an interview we posted on Christianity Today's Faith In The Workplace channel. Two Hollywood directors discuss a lot of these same issues (on the Fuller campus no less).

I was there when they spoke. And Scott Derrickson said two things that profoundly effected me. (I'm going to paraphrase him very loosely because it's been a long time.)

1) Christians are too quick to lust after the power of movies without ever spending time loving movies. If we want to speak to our culture through movies, we need to understand the tools that make good movies. And that means some of us at least need to love movies--and understand the full history of cinema. From Citizen Kane to Star Wars to Taxi Driver to Pulp Fiction.

2) Philippians 4:8 (my favorite verse by the way) is not a universal measuring stick. That is, something doesn't have to be true and noble and right and pure, etc. In fact, many things that are true are not lovely. Consider Schindler's List. Not a lovely movie. But a film with an important--and arguably Biblical truth. Consider The Passion.

Would I show either of those two movies to my young children? Or even to my youth group? No. But the fact that they are inappropriate for some people does not make them inappropriate (or even immoral) for all people.

If you need to limit yourself to the Bible, that's wonderful. If you prefer to challenge yourself with powerful and edgy cinema, I think that's wonderful too. But let's not impose our personal purity needs on each other as general moral mandates.

Personally I find that Satan has provided us with a world of placebos, to fill that empty space in which Jesus Christ would love to dwell. First it was comic books and baseball cards, then came movies and TV, then there are sports to attend, with fishing and boating to fill up the weekend. While the Pastors strive to lead people to Christ, Satan dazzles them off to Hollywood cheers and bright lights, smothering them in materialism. As I see it, it is critical for Christ ministers to teach their people how to fast from over indulgence in materialism. For until they learn to keep Satan’s smorgasbord in moderation, they will never get around to picking up a bible.
Proverbs 30:8 "Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me: 9 Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the Lord? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain." Amen!

If the above posts are an indication, there won't be a flood of UR readers flocking to Sundance next year!

My concern is that the falsehood is so well communicated in film, complete with swellling music or profound silence and the telling of an emotional tale that perfectly fits the world view of the writer/director/producer.

In the movie the world view makes sense. It is persuasive. But its not the real world. Its not the real God.

Yes interpretive leadership is needed. But one preacher against the subtle falsehood of a well-done movie is David and Goliath. (And in that metaphore is dispair and hope.)

"The devil walketh about as a roaring lion seeking those he may devour..." As I have heard it said.."One doesn't have to stick one's head in the lion's mouth to know it can devour." One should know one's weapon and how to use it against the "wiles of the devil." Our weapon (sword) is the WORD. As "Truth Seeker" said: "Spend your time in the Word." The eyes take in everything in a film...not the few (perhaps) redeeming moments. Why open up your heart, soul and mind to that trash? Know the truth from studying God's Word and error will stick out like a sore thumb. Do we really need to waste precious time "studying" the error?

Thanks for sharing this idea of "interpretive leadership" - its surely the role of Christian leadership to open the window on what our media culture says about the world that God loves? When we crack that window we get to see a lot of pain, yes and sin, but in my experience most sin is born out of the pain of life without a consistent revelation of the presence/knowledge of God.

The Pharisees of this age are those who propound their dualist notions of "evil" things out "there" in the world waiting to "get us". These people are quick with their "straw man" accusations of compromise and straying from the Bible. I'm not saying that there aren't some harmful things that should be avoided - and some of those things are more harmful to some than others (the food offered to idols springs to mind).

But I am saying that "flee the world" is not biblical. I'm not a WWJD fan - what we know is WJAD: what Jesus actually did. And he was found in the world mediating its pain and hurt and sin to a loving Father. His teachings asked us to flee an inner world of lust, anger, hypocrisy; not to massage our outer world into an acceptable and manageable haven. "Do not conform to the standards of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind"

One of the things that I find very interesting is, the church (Christian community) is to be making an impact on the culture. We are not doing that, because we are too busy following culture in every aspect of life our intertainment, our relationships. Take dating for example it is a thing of the past even in the "church". We like how some one looks we hop in bed with them. Never mind morality much less what the Wordof God teaches about sex outside of marraige. Every where Jesus Christ went he made an impace on culture. He is to be our example not culture. Until we follow him in life we will not impact culture. The 'church' is following culture not Christ. Let the Chrsitian community become the people that God has called us to be.

As a mother of three, I have tried to stay aware of what is going on in the culture, especially music, film, print media, tv, and internet. In doing so, I am able to know more about the world that my kids and their friends are living in. When they were young it was my job to monitor their activities and filter out the harmful influences. As they grew up I found that I had to continually release them into the freedom to make their own choices and mistakes. Many of their friends were simply told what not to do and mistakes were just not tolerated. Most of them learned to look to their peers and the culture to develop their identity, not how to think and make decisions of their own.
My kids are now in their 20's and they are independent thinkers unlike many of their peers. They are developing a christian world view that is their own. It is exciting to hear them express the truth in their own words. We have many discussions about what is being presented in the culture in light of biblical truths. There is alot of darkness in the media. It's important to me that I am able to give an answer for the hope that is in me in these times. That may involve some level of familiarity with what is being presented in film and other media.
I appreciate the caution that many people have around this issue. We had a dear friend who decided to "minister" to the lost and hopeless women involved in strip clubs. He ended up losing his marriage. No one is immune from the possibility of being drawn into darkness.

So, to follow the recommendation to a slippery-slope conclusion... At what point are we, as leaders, to draw the line at interpretive leadership? This essay implies that we can see God in anything (not just films) and that it is our role as Leaders to find the redemption in things we would normally condemn so we can leaad our people. If I partake in the drug culture, or pornography - all to find the redemtion - am I acting in responsible interpretive leadership, or in sinful lust?

The goal of film-makers is generally not to show us God, but their own interpretation of the world around them - rarely through he lens of the Redeemed. It is not our task to find God in the works of the world, but to take people out of the world so they can see God. We can't serve two masters.

The world, ruled by Satan, is not our home. John tells us not to love the world or anything in the world. Paul tells us to know nothing of the evil that others do. James cautions us to correct the sinner, but beware that we don't succumb to the same temptation. How do these admonitions line up with watching movies in the name of "interpretive leadership"?

I find it just a convenient excuse to do what was once considered sin or at least temptation.

I've not read all the comments, but if this is new and you think it postworthy, use it. I believe the suggestion given by the author is great for some, not for others. There are some that can stand strong in the face of dipping into the sinfulness of society and use it as an evangelical tool to reach the lost and guide them into truth. Jesus did that and He was accused of hanging with the wrong crowd. For others, the suggestion bears caution as it could be a detrimental step into temptations. We've all got our callings and there are grey areas where what is good for one, is not good for the other. It doesn't ever mean keeping our head in the sand. But the Lord knows where each individual is and what He's doing in each life at any given moment.

I've never been to this site before but I must say that reading all these comments has been an encouragement that the Body of Christ (or at least a segment of it) is engaging the culture and many have discernment! Imagine that?? God asks us to use discernment when it comes to things like current films. And, when something on the screen is offensive to you, get up and leave! When we have done this, the theater operators are very understanding and give us a raincheck.

Thanks for the comments on my post folks. From the looks of things it seems that most of the readers believe that as Christians we should keep our distance from films (and perhaps other cultural artifacts) that are not at least somewhat "Christian." I certainly appreciate that perspective.

I'm curious if there are any readers who are more sympathetic to my call for an "interpretive leadership" that necessitates a more intentional cultural engagement? Thoughts?

Brett, I like your comments. If you just got here, go read Brett's comment.

One of my favorite recent movies is M. Night Shyamalan's "The Village." Not because it was a great movie...but because it showed us that while we can sequester ourselves from evil by creating our own little worlds - we often awake to find that the evil is among us. We brought it with us when we built the walls that surround us!!!

I personally love movies - probably many that some on Ur might find objectionable. If I'm honest, my motives for watching some of these movies are probably not always pure and righteous. But I also know that I love to show up to work ready to discuss the latest movie with coworkers - offering a different take on the movie - providing what I hope is interpretative leadership. Engaging these movies head on (within reason) offers an excellent opportunity to build bridges rather than walls.

I'm a little dismayed by how convinced some of you are of the power of Satan. First off, Satan doesn't provide us with anything; he didn't make comic books or television, and saying those are works of the devil (on the internet, no less!) is about as sensible as saying the printing press is a work of the devil.

Secondly, the power of God is greater than any temptation Satan can throw at us. (This, by the way, is not an argument for testing God by throwing ourselves into temptation.) Even if we assume that movies are gateways to sin and lies and not goodness and truth, they are at the very least expressions of a sinful world into which we must go--the same way Jesus came into this sinful world to save us.

A final response: Paul's words about creation in Romans 8 suggest that all of creation, not just humans, long for redemption. I'd concur with Travis that the redemption that Christ brings is to all creation, not just people.

While the Christ was condemned by His enemies as being a whoremonger, winebibber, and friend of publicans, He was in fact only the latter one. He was indeed friend to the worst of society. Why? Because they were the 'ill in need of a doctor.' And by the way, why have we been so quick to forget the fact that it was they, the sinners, that came out to Him, and not vice versa. Ultimately, it was the knowledge of and the attraction to the Messiah that changed lives, no matter where they found themselves in society or a culture. Some of these expressed opinions sure seem to turn that around.

While He didn't go into them or even infer acceptance of the houses of prostitution, or the opium dens, upon receiving the truth, those that did populate them ran out to Him! Why would I, the one who now knows the truth, want to sit and fill my spirit with the opinions, thoughts, and perversions of those 'artists' who are living 'in the world, and outside of Him?'

I never forget nor attempt to not put into practice, loving those in sin and bringing them into the knowledge that will set them free! Sort of makes you wonder what we Christians will support next; why not a Dove Award for 'The Davinci Code' and at least a standing ovation for that classic film, "The Last Temptation of Christ?'
Well, after all, He did say that He had come to separate didn't He? It seems that He has.

Several have echoed a comment above "There are some that can stand strong in the face of dipping into the sinfulness of society and use it as an evangelical tool to reach the lost and guide them into truth" and I have a thoguht or two on this sentiment.

First, when does "dipping into sinfulness" become sin? Your motives do not necessarily overide the actual sin. To say "I will sin so that God may be glorified" is a contradiction. I think it takes more strength to stand at the water cooler and explain why you wouldn't see a particular movie. It is the easy road to go along with the crowd, it is much harder to stand with the few, or to stand alone. Where has my witness gone if I tell a non Christian that I spent money and time watching Saw2 just so I could understand the depths of sinfulness? Do I need to watch Victoria Secrets fashion show to discuss exploitation of women and the lustful hearts of men?

Most of this thread seems to ba a cover for watching what we want to watch and rationalizing it as "evangelism research". Sorry, I don't buy it.

Corey,

I don't recall reading the statement "There are some that can stand strong in the face of dipping into the sinfulness of society and use it as an evangelical tool to reach the lost and guide them into truth" - perhaps I may have missed it. But I am definitely an advocate of interacting with culture - and offering a differing perspective on what we encounter to those we have the opportunity to interact with.

As far as dipping into sin goes - I assume that none of us is beyond sin - so we're all immersed to some extent or another to start. I don't advocate watching Saw2 or Victoria's Secret specials - but I also don't advocate boycotting the Davinci Code either.

As someone who has stood outside the Christian community for most of his life - I can tell you that Christians aren't the City on the Hill because they abstain from certain behaviors (or watching certain movies) - the "lost" are attracted by love and the hope for something eternal - there's enough judgment to go around in our culture without the church acting above the fray.

Thank God that Jesus chose to dip into a sinful world...while showing that it's possible to live in a sinful world while living for something redemptive beyond this world.

While I definitely agree that there are some things that Christians shouldn't view for entertainment purposes (for example: any of the Saw movies), I'm just not sure that viewing them is a sin in its own right. I think there's a subtlety that this conversation is lacking. It's not the case that we must absorb all of American culture or reject it entirely. That's how we wound up with the ridiculous, Christianized sub-culture that we have now (Christian putt-putt, Christian wrestling, Christian dance clubs, Christian everything). We've got to participate in broader culture judiciously, taking some of the bad with the good - and it's our response that matters most.

For argument's sake, here's a contextless proof-text: "What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.'" Matt. 15:10-12