While I really would like to sound a note of sympathy to Ed and those who may feel similarly betrayed/concerned by this subject, I also voice a concern.

There are those whom God raises up and calls out to sound an alarm when the identity and function of the church begins to go off course. Those whose identities have become so enmeshed in a particular ideology and way of being are also usually unwilling to hear and heed this call. They label these folks traitors, disturbers of the peace, and sometimes even crucify them.

If for no other reason that our own sordid history, we should not be too hasty to call pirating that which may be prophetic. As in all matters of Christian faith, the proof is in the fruit.

I mean no disrespect in my dissent to Mr. Young's follow up statements. I appreciate his effort in trying to help me (or other dissenters) understand the view he is taking.

Where I can't seem to follow him is in his statements like: "But when someone in your staff becomes a pirate, the mission is jeopardized. The focus shifts from reaching out to the world for Christ." If the mission is the lost as he has repeatedly said, how does someone leaving Fellowship and taking people with them (no matter their agenda, or level of position) jeopardize reaching the lost? For him to honestly believe that, one would have to logically conclude that Mr. Young must believe that God has given him certain people who are lost and only he can reach them. Those lives are literally in his hands. And that this "distraction" might cause him to miss out on reaching those people. If that's true, then Wow!! What a burden he must feel on a daily basis. I say this sincerely.

The other statement was said earlier in his response where he says, "Pirating rears its ugly head when those leaders that you cultivate work behind your back (and the church’s back) maliciously and intently to gather their own “kingdom” and head out the door. The real issue is betrayal." I agree. It's betrayal. And it must hurt to invest time & energy into someone just to see them years later walk out on you. But, wasn't that work, that investment, done on behalf of God who Mr. Young serves? If so, isn't this an issue for God to deal with in His own way? Our responsibility is to love & forgive. To remember that we wage war not against flesh & blood but against the evil one. I wonder if Mr. Young would call church pirates evil or just misguided? If misguided then forgive them and allow the church to be blessed even more from it.

Can we all please remember that no one can pull out the betrayal card more than Jesus? He could have called Judas all sorts of names but, in the face of his betrayal he called him (according to Matthew's account) a friend. Jesus is the image we are to imitate. And while I don't expect pastors to be perfect, I do wish to see more mercy, more grace & more forgiveness shown from the pulpit or the worship stage of our churches. Actions still speak louder than words.

Jesus says, "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." I guess that's why so many people who are lost are still lost.

I wonder...will the critics ever be satisfied? Sadly, the answer is no.

Thank you, though, Ed, for stepping out once again and sharing your heart. Thank you for continuing to point to Christ week in and week out...no matter what the critics say.

I hope that constructive criticism is never satisfied in any of our lives. How are we to grow and learn if we can't constructively look at our lives and others to learn and grow. In the art world the definition of 'criticism" is to define, analyze and interpret works of art. How suitable it would be if in the Christian world we could provoke each other to good works with loving, constructive criticism that defines, analyzes and interprets how to live for Christ as His disciple.

I appreciate Ed's response, and thank him for continuing to converse on the topic. I also thank the other "Out of Ur" commentors for continuing to ask questions and provoke conversation. I have learned a lot from this conversation the past few days, and many from my church have tuned in to discuss and re-think some ideas.

First, I didn't seem much new in part 2. Young talks about ethics but doesn't define them to make clear what the "pirate" had done wrong.
Second, I would like to hear the other side of the story from the alleged "pirate".
But my most basic question is "Why does Ed Young care?" When he talks about betrayal, that translates to "I thought you were helping me with my enterprise, then you started your own enterprise!"
Perhaps the pirate IS trying to build his own little kingdom where he can be the big man, and all his talk of expanding the Kingdom is a cover for expanding his own ego. But if that is his attitude, then it makes no difference whether he left or was sent out by the church or just arrived in a new field. On the other hand, if he really is trying to follow Christ's call, it still makes no difference. All the talk about trust, malice, authority, etc. is trivial. Any leader in any circumstance must constantly ask himself "Am I trying to build the Kingdom of God or my little enterprise?"

I think your last statement pretty much summed it up. What is your purpose? Who are you trying to reach?

I think if people would focus on that, the goals the "Truth" (reaching out, not in) sets out for us in scripture this might not even be an issue.

I visited your church with my Father-in-law (a member) a while back and I know your [Ed's] heart is for the Lord.

I have been a pastor for over 14 years and I realize a couple of years that one of my assistance pastor was undermining the ministry. I don' t want to go into details because it would not do any good to talk about or write about the situation. I am call to pastor and to teach the kingdom of
God and to raise up disciples that will do the same. But in the process their will be those who motives are not godly. People will come and people will leave my only concern is that if they leave that I have done everything posible to teach and to make sure that I have done my part to the glory of God. I am a full time pastor and I don't understand everything that has happen to me, or why certain persons would want to destroy me. But I find that some not all, want the prestige and the glamor and the wealth of what they perceived is what pastoring is all about. pastoring is not about wealth or is it about prestige, it is about soul and teaching them the truth of God's Word. I forgive those whose eyes have been blinded. I hear from God and I understand by the Holy Spirit what God intends for me to do. This topic needs to be shared and God has used Pastor Ed to make us aware that we are one body in Christ, but their are those who main mission is to have their own Kingdom, instead of promoting God's Kingdom.

This talk of "pirating" seems one-sided. It assumes the leader is always truly "pouring his heart into... laughing with... crying with... molding and shaping" the pirate-to-be.

Is it possible that the "molding and shaping" that happens over the course of several years breeds in the person a sense of being held back and a feeling of being conformed into the image of the leader rather than the image of God?

It is my guess that in a church the size of Fellowship Church, there are hundreds of people with a call to shepherd. How many of them are being molded and shaped ... empowered and released to be who God has called them to be (not just encouraged to fill a role witin the church ... to make IT a better organization)? Without this, as the Proverb says, "Hope deferred makes the heart sick".

Is it possible that in some situations the senior pastor could be partly at fault for the "pirating"... because maybe he didn't nurture the person in a healthy way... and no outlet was provided for the person to be "sent"?

While I think it is important to have unity in the Body of Christ, to avoid church splits and unhealthy departures from church staff members, it seems like the senior pastor in these situations is always the victim and not much air-time is given to the other side of the story.

I believe I understand what Pastor Ed is saying. Pirating is unethical and immoral. I think the issue is more that of ethics than loyalty. Piracy is not about starting a church next door and it's not even about one man thinking he can do a better job than the current pastor. It's about working in a church (often times getting paid and yes for maybe 20 years or more) and secretly gathering people and resources (mailing lists, member files, etc.) because you will need them some day. And then that day comes to set out on your own. And you are ready because you have all your stuff together and a full list of potential church members. Calling on members of church A to come out and visit church B. "You know about all of the problems up at church A - at church B, we are all about worshiping God." Piracy.

Here's an excellent example of piracy (and it is real). The PASTOR works at the church for many many years. Everyone loves him. Then he decides to "retire" and a new pastor is hired. Except he doesn't actually retire. The old pastor cannot let go and eases his way into meetings under the guise of "I'm just trying to help". Then, he does leave, for good, and joins an established parachurch ministry nearby which needs funding and volunteers. The old pastor sends letters to members of church A. "Hello Church A member, this is your old pastor. I would like for you and the Mrs. to have lunch with me, just because I love you". Lo and behold, half the congregation of church A, follow along. That's piracy in action.

For myself, I am bitter about it and therefore I am sinning by not getting over it. I'm trying, but I just want people to understand Piracy is real, and don't think it can't happen to you.

“I agree that church members and attendees don’t belong to the pastor. They are God’s people, called by him to serve him above all. Pastors are called to shepherd them, not own them.”

Nice opening statement, a pity that you had to go qualify that statement with … “The issue with pirating is all about what happens in the church leadership—specifically the staff.”

So, left with the definition of the opening statement, I can correctly assume that the “staff”, in your opinion, is not considered part of that “church members and attendee’s” group. Interesting structure you have in “your church."
Which now begs the question…where does "your staff" belong in that hierarchy…where is that…oh yes, just a wee bit down…ah…there it is…

“Pirating rears its ugly head when those leaders that you cultivate work behind your back (and the church’s back) maliciously and intently to gather their own “kingdom” and head out the door. The real issue is betrayal.”

So, now we come to it, you’re bent out of shape because these people, whom you yourself have defined as "your staff" and not just “members and attendees” betray you and "your mission." This statement implies an expective feudal practice of personal fealty, loyal to you and "your cause." You also point to the fact that they also have the damnable audacity to go and start their “own kingdom,” which speaks volumes about how you perceive yourself, and the church you’ve been placed in.

Ed, I’m going to give you a solid piece of advice…when you find yourself in a deep hole, your first objective should be stop digging.

You yourself said it at the beginning of the interview, now it’s time to believe it and live it: “Not my church, not my staff, not my kingdom, they all belong to you, G-d, they are your church, your staff, your kingdom, and in you I trust.”

Wonderful and informative series.
I love your blog!

I had to chuckle when I read this commentary. The whole jargon is so foreign to me as one in a fellowship of believers that has no capital "P" pastor and functions organically without "staff" or "employees." We prefer the New Testament structure of elders and deacons who "aspire to do the good work" without expectation of position or pay. Paul told the Ephesian elders to: "Take heed therefore to yourselves, and to all the flock, wherein the Holy Spirit has set you as overseers, to shepherd the assembly of God, which he has purchased with the blood of his own." If you are doing this in accordance with New Testament principles, will this issue worry you?

To those who say it doesn't matter whether a person is a church planter or pirate...

The person who leaves without any blessing from the church usually recruits his following by speaking negatively about the lead pastor, church, elder board, etc. in order to provide a backdrop for his promise of hope in moving to a new church plant. What is left then, after he leaves, is a large amount of disunity in the body and a continued trickling of people out the door heading to this new promise of hope down the street. And while where people worship should not be as important as the fact that they are worshiping...

To those who say it doesn't matter where people worship and if people leave the church to go down the street, "so be it"...

The people that a church pirate takes with him are not the lost people and they are not the ones who just came to faith. They are the leaders. They are the believers in the church with the gift of leadership, teaching, shepherding, prayer, etc. who are growing and leading others to grow. When they leave en masse it sucks the life out of the previous church as it can no longer minister effectively to the number of lost or new believers it currently has. Each leader who remains now has twice the work to do and can rarely do it effectively. The people recruited to leave are often givers as well. When they leave, the previous church now has the same financial burden it had before, but with a sudden drop in giving that will take some time to rebuild.

There is way more going on in these situations that where people go to church. I don't care if people want to go to another church down the street. I will gladly refer them there. But I do not want to see the people that are growing and finding fellowship here be lied to caught in a battle which serves only to feed the pirate's ego.

Church plants are strategic and maintain unity in the body and a Gospel centered focus. Church splits are ugly and take many years for churches to recover from if they ever do.

church multiplication by church split is a time honored tradition.

I know of a place that had 2 baptist churches literally across the street from each other.talk about a finger in the eye.

If you were able to dig into the history of churches, I bet you'd find that more often than not "new churches" got planted just as often from splits as they did from denominational "mission".

I hardly think that there was all this "strategic" blah blah blah going on like it is today with the mega-church minority experience.

At the end of the day, who cares?

Let Ed Young have his church, his views and his sensitivities.

Personally, I don't care about these mega-churches or their pastors. No matter how much protestation to the contrary, we still listen to this small minority of pastoral voices because our underlying assumptions still are grounded in the bankrupt idea that the size of these people's ministries means they have something to say to all of us, and that we should listen.

God bless, Ed Young, whoever he is. Bless his Fellowship Church, wherever it is.

But at the end of the day...he's just another man in some place I don't live and has nothing to do with me.

One last thought - it is doubtless that if Ed has a betrayer on staff - his/her comments may be here or on as many blogs as he/she can - describing how wrong Ed really is. Also, those guilty of doing exactly what Ed has described will post their thoughts on how Ed is wrong - obviously so they won't feel guilty for their sinful actions. There probably are a few betraying church members on comment boards also who would post some "Ed is wrong" comments to placate their guilt as well. Always remember who might be in the "room" with you and what their agenda might be.

CT/UR? Can we do a non-scientific poll? Because I wonder if those who agree with the portrayal of a pirates betrayal are also on staff or heavily involved as volunteers? It would make sense that their view would be as such, in order to defend the institution.

I believe those who are against however, are trying to defend a more conservative "Calvinist" view... a judgment on someone's heart reserved for God & God alone. We may judge each others actions/motives but our ruling must always be to love. We're simply not sovereign enough to know the whole truth. And while the alleged "pirate" may deserve to be burned at the pulpit of public opinion, that price has already been paid.

The Plain Truth: If a church split is ugly, it's only because both sides made it that way and now they're throwing Jesus in to the middle of it.

So you gain your consumers by having the best service, the best children's programs and the best facilities and then become frustrated when a consumer is being a consumer?

But there's a far bigger issue.

You can't "pirate" someone from a church any more than you can "pirate" someone from your family. A local church is an interdependent relational body not a place you go or a cause you belong to.

If people are in deeper more interdependent relationships with another body than they already belong to that other body.

We've transformed the church into a consumer based institution and then complain when people treat it that way.

This conversation is simply another example of how far we've come from the biblical idea of church.

Amen Ed! Thanks for your indepth discernment. I also believe the issue is one of ethics. I greatly appreciate your clarification of those who are with you, for you or using you. Would John the B call them sons of snakes?

Well, he also asked them what they came out looking for and to prove themselves by changing their behavior and turning toward God. perhaps we still need to ask that question.

*When someone on your staff usurps the authority of the church, starts a rogue movement, and does their own thing, then you are dealing with a pirate.*

Do you even hear what you're saying? What's wrong in so many "church's" is they are run like corporations which is exactly what caused Jesus to overturn the "moneychanger's table" in the Temple. We've gotten ourselves all turned around. The priorities of the church should not be the church! Membership is never mentioned in Scripture ... EVER! It's a "Man" idea. We don't covenant with God & a local pastor, we covenant with God! Pastor's are responsibile only in the sense of overseeing ...

Look at a real shepherd. They don't spoonfeed the sheep, they simply lead them to where the food & water is and do their best to protect the sheep from preditors. Preditors are not other pastors, for pete's sake! Today's "sheep" are so stuck in their pews they can't see past the pastor. Shepherds shold be spending more time teaching the "sheep" how to stand on their own, how to feed and water themselves rather than how to pass the offering plate gracefully.

So sad ...

Ed

Not sure if you're reading this. I have massive respect for you, but had concerns about your video. Many of those concerns are gone now thanks to this post :)

You said: "It ultimately comes down to one question: who are you reaching? Because pirates are all about reaching into the church first for their own agenda rather than reaching out to the world to save lives and fulfill Christ’s agenda".

I think this would have clarifed a lot. I left a church that wasn't reaching the lost to start a church that was sold out to reaching the lost. I got demonational approval. I sought approval from the church, but they didn't give it. Even though I wasn't on staff, I got heavily criticized. I didn't intentionally take anyone with me. Obviously some found out and came (about 15-20ppl).

My point is, sometimes you can work really hard to get approval. Sometimes you can do everything above reproach. But at the end of the day, I refuse to stay at a church that doesn't reach people when there are so many going to hell. Not all church planters who plant close to their previous church are in sin. Some have done everything right, and have gone above and beyond. But there are many pastors out there who are threatened by new church plants. And sometimes they attack.

Thanks for all you do for the kingdom.

No matter what our criticisms may be. I hope that we all see the authentic desire that Pastor Ed has to warn all of us; Pastors, Church Leaders, and Church Members not to be manipulated by the select group who recruit by undermining the current Pastor or leadership of a Church. No one is denying that God being God can take that new group of people born out of such circumstances and use them for his Kingdom in some manner at some point in the future.

However is that the most beneficial or ethical way of doing it?

Even if I felt that my Senior Pastor was holding me back I would tell him to his face my frustrations and I would pursue the wisest path from there. Either I accept what I don't like or I should leave. That's between me and the Pastor. It should not involve anyone else. I believe God would honor that above all because no one is slandered and the Church is not marked with strife. We just agreed to disagree.

Those who do not find any validity in what Ed is addressing have probably not been knifed in the back by someone they trusted and supported in ministry. I have had opportunities to "start a new church" where there was trouble in the "current church." I didn't because there are no pure motives in going into competition with "those who have hurt me." Anyone who says God has called them to start a church to "show them how it should be done" isn't being honest with themself or God. God does not call us to division, criticism and disrespect. He calls us to unity. Let's grow up and talk about our troubles.

Recently I was sent out to help reach some people who are geographically distant from from our large church campus in Southern California. I am 30 miles from the main campus. We are reaching people for Christ. I am part of the mission of our church. I am helping people who were commuting a long distance to being involved in serving instead of just driving.

I love that I get to do this, but I can tell you something for sure. It was far easier to be at the main campus enjoying all the amenities. Now it all goes back into the trailers every week and we are hot and tired. Isn't God great!

So, check your motives before you start anything new close to home. I just knew that my heart would not be focused on the lost in those opportunities I had and it would have rotted my heart to build up something that close to a church where I was known and loved. It would have weakened that church and caused hurt in the body. It would have caused brothers and sister to stumble - on one side or the other.

Dave

I sympathise with Ed, really I do... his hurt is evident in the video... but, and it's a big BUT, is that what he complains about is a natural result of the ecclesiology he and th mega-church movement espouse... as someone said, you build a consumer Church you get consumer Christians, you build Empires and you will get usurpers (read your history!), you operate hierarchies/power structures and you get ambition! Time to look back the Trinity to understand authentic community - perichoresis - mutual indwelling and mutual self-surrender - to find a model for and an invitation into real Christian community. With all due respect Ed... you reap what you sow.

I cannot believe there is such controversy on this point that Pastor Ed Young makes. As a staff pastor for the past 14 years I have seen first hand "pirating" and it is always a hurtful and harmful thing to the church. It simple comes down to doing the right thing. It is not about who's people they are Gods or the pastor. It comes down again to simple doing what is right. If a staff pastor is feeling it is time to step out then he needs to talk to the Lead Pastor and the two work out the best way to help continue Gods kingdom together. That could be helping support a church plant in another community or maybe in the right circumstance in the same town. But, it must come with the blessing of the pastor and the church that staff person is leaving. This is not complicated it is simple the right way to do it. If hurt and harm is cause to the church (which I have seen in ever piracy act of a staff person) it should not be hard to figure out it is wrong. For those of us that have to pick up the pieces after something like this happens and the hurt and betrayal that individuals of the church feels you would understand this is not Gods way of furthering his kingdom. When the pastor and his staff member sits downs and prays, communicate, blesses the future plan together. Gods kingdom grows healthier and strong. Going behind the back and having the heart of well I am going to do what I want to do. God does not cause dissension in his own church. Actually I remember reading somewhere it is in the top things he hates. This is a easy one.

First of all I don't know Pastor Ed, but I have been in his shoes. The point that is missed here and not understood by the obviously novices that have written in this blog is the subject of Spiritual Fathering. Yes, and you may not understand this if you are a spiritual orphan, God has given us pastors and all the five-fold ministry, the anointing to be spiritual fathers of certain people with the sole purpose to bring some answers, stability, honesty, protection and mostly love in their lives. Yes we know that they are not our children, like we know that our physical children will one day leave the nest and go build their own homes, but like our physical children so our spiritual ones, they do not have to leave in strife, unless their motives, ambitions and the spirit of Absalom is allowed to take over. Although my children are all grown up and out of the home, they are still my children and we can have fellowship and I can help them and be a source of wisdom and experience in their lives and ministries. Usually what characterizes a "pirate" is disrespect and dishonor for the spiritual father who worked on their growth selflessly, like most true fathers do. If you feel that the only way to have people in your church is bad mouth the church you came from and point out all the things that your pastor did wrong then my friend stop beating around the bush. You are the very definition of a "pirate". Moreover what goes around comes around and you will feel the sting of betrayal and dishonor soon enough, because that's what you are producing. And God forbid if you start caring for the people you gained with this unethical way, betrayal will sting more.

Wayne Boyd: "But, it must come with the blessing of the pastor and the church that staff person is leaving."

Okay, I'm curious, where does it say in the New Testament, any translation, that this rite of separation is a "must" i.e. biblically mandated codified writ of behavior expected of all believers seeking to start their own church?

note: Ed may be a fine pastor, all around nice guy, and the best christian this side of 1000 AD...I wouldn't know, I live in California, so his pastoral skills, his personality, and his faith are not in question.
What is in question is his perspective on his role in that church. This is not a slight against the man, nor am I challenging his "leadership" position, it's a reality check on his perceived "ownership" on that which belongs to G-d.

Xenofon:
"...subject of Spiritual Fathering. Yes, and you may not understand this if you are a spiritual orphan, God has given us pastors and all the five-fold ministry, the anointing to be *spiritual fathers of certain people* with the sole purpose to bring some answers, stability, honesty, protection and mostly love in their lives."

Def: Cult of personality: intense devotion to a particular person

I strongly encourage you to rethink what you're doing, and determine if it is mentoring and advising because if you are setting yourself up as a "spiritual father" to "some" christians you are opening doors that you, or anyone else engaged in that behavior, have no business opening.
All christians are sign posts pointing to G-d, the real spiritual father...anyone trying to be something more than a sign post has left the job, and has gone wandering into the wilderness.

I can see where both sides are coming from. Iam not in shock to see how much the article and the blogs are in line with what our church is going through. God had spoke years ago to my husband and I about our calling, when we went to our pastor we were indirectly shot down. Hey it was o.k. with me at that time i was comfortable,then four years later God told me to move. I didn't want to go, but i wanted to be in his will more than i wanted to be comfortable.Note no one came with me.Here Iam another four years later. I have been questioned by detectives concerning my pastor locally and federally. Iam crushed and my pastor has stepped down. However God did not call my husband and I to take that church over. We are ministering to hurting people in the midst of our pain and trying to get them to the place where their focus isnt their pain, but on those who don't even have a relationship with God. Now that is real pain! Please pray for the restoration of those who have taken the bait of satan. Let us all remember to consider our own spiritual candition before we point at someome else, we need to have a heart of compassion not condemnation!

Ed Young, Jr is simply confirming that christian pastors in America are operating a profit making business and not a church. Their egos and their finances are stoked by cold hard cash so they don't like it when their "best paying customers" are stolen by the competition. Its all about the cash and that's why I don't bother going to church anymore. Until the christian church gets back to Jesus and off of their addiction to cash I recommend that all church goers simply say no when the collection plate comes by. When the profits are gone from church then we will see who really believes and who is just a profit making business man in spiritual robes.

God Bless You All,
I think the underlying issue is conflict. Conflict is a major issue affecting the church and until we properly deal with handling conflict this issue of piracy will continue to manifest in the church.
If conflict is not resolved, "church-hurt" begins to build up which is very dangerous and members begin to leave. I feel this is a sensitive issue that with WISDOM, churches need to begin addressing. If we want to be an example of Christ to others in the world, we must FIRST be that example to our Brothers and Sisters in the church and handle things as Christ would.
Yours Truly,
Jennifer Taveras
President of Cornerstone3
www.Cornerstone3.net

Let's not turn this discussion into a question of mega-church vs. minor church.

I was in a small church with only lay pastors, no recognized pastors and no formally recognized eldership. And we experienced piracy to such a degree it split the church and destroyed many good things in the process. You're naive if you think that a different form of church government or worship style is going to protect you from that.

As the Bible has so clearly shown, we are to obey our elders and submit to their authority. We are commanded not to be divisive and cause flock splitting. Even if we feel that the shepherds are leading the sheep wrong.

If you are not in ministry or have not ever experienced the betrayal and undermining of a staff member, you cannot begin to understand the damage it does to a church.
Usually, when a staff person undermines, it is for self-centered reasons and their intent is to makle themselves look better than the person they are undermining. Very rarely is it for the advancement of the Kingdom.
The point of this matter is not Ed Young or his church but an ever increasing problem in churches today. When these scenarios take place they always take the focus off of our purpose as a body - reaching the lost.
As a pastor's wife, we have experienced such an atrocity. The results- an injured body. It usually leads the body into a competive spirit of who is leaving and who is staying and who's side are you on and not about the Kingdom of God.
For those of you who are senior pastors or intend to be - count your blessings if you have not encountered such - your time may come.

Hey Ed,
Thanks for the great new term "Church Pirates" I have experienced this in the worst possible way...my son was on our staff and he asssited other "church pirates" on his way out to none other than the Dallas area. Your thoughts are right on target. Myself, along with our church family, are left with the significant pain of betrayal. The persons left behind are always confused and are forced to "choose sides" You feel "stained" having been placed in this situation with the constant reminder of the pain by the "always against you" existence of the ill-started church. Their outreach strategy is not to share the love of Jesus but to share their dislike of the church they once covenanted to build. To each of you that have endured this horrible experience I hurt for you. They don't teach you how to deal with anything like this in seminary. Thank you, Ed, for exposing these "pirates" Simply having a name for the pain helps. Knowing that there are others out there is bitter-sweet. To all of you who have yet to experience this, you might consider getting down on your knees and praise Jesus that you have been insulated from this "kidney stone" of ministry.

I oversee a relatively small ministry in my church. I am blessed because the pastor I serve under (and who shepherds me truly, disciples me Scripturally) is a man of vision and courage. Even within the ministry I've be entrusted with, we have betrayal. And at its core, it's an ethical issue. It is not an issue of protecting any earthly kingdom. Our institutions however effective of ineffective will all pass away, and praise God for that. I believe Ed's emotion on this topic doesn't detract from it's central message that deception by church staff or leaders is never okay, and if you are an assistant pastor or ministry coordinator and are meeting covertly with members of your church or other staff members, you are deceiving somebody -- either the pastor who has been given authority by God to lead your particular local church or yourself into thinking that somehow the ends justify the means.
It's clear from the posts here that many of the writers do not know Ed Young, his heart, or his ministry as the pastor of a local church. Boil it all down, and that is the position that Christ has called him to. One of the things I've always admired about the church he leads is that he is entirely honest and unpretentious about the fact that it is not for everyone, and that's fine. As church attendees or members, if it's not the church for you, great. Leave, and find a church that is. The New Testament is very clear that we are to commit to a local body of believers for our benefit and to join together to benefit others (blessed so that we can be a blessing). Ed's not addressing people leaving the church; he's confronting key leaders or staff who use unethical means to divide the local church, another issue Scripture is pointedly clear about.

It wouldn't be a problem if pastors were interested in pastoring and not being the king over their little kingdom. Some pastors refuse to partner with the person that feels called to leave and decide to entertain a spirit of retaliation against the one leaving. Some pastors develop the "stabbed in the back syndrome" and spend years whining and preaching about the situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0N2Kd-m5dE