Hermenuetics

Comments

Some logical questions regarding the rape issue-
Who else would be a witness to know if this was the fourth night?
What if there was a bad case of Alzheimers?
What if a wife was just plain malicious?
Sounds like huge empowerment of the wife to charge a husband with rape.
Hardly conducive to the eager giving of oneself that should be natural to a Christian. Hardly conducive to a healthy relationship.
Seems Martin Luther had a similar idea that, 'twice a week should be sufficient'. Luther might have meant,"twice a week should be a bare minimum".
Seems the U.S. and U.N. have redefined rape as well as marriage.

Posted By: Ronnie V. | April 8, 2009 8:56 PM

To the previous commenter, Ronnie V:

For the government to establish a standard for how often a woman should have sex with her husband implies that if they do not submit as often as the law requires they are breaking the law. Do you really think a law like this empowers a woman to file a rape charge? Afghani women are anything but empowered. This is not a case of any mainstream media semantics circus, this is information well documented even on The 700 Club. Comparing the eager giving of oneself as a Christian to women oppressed in a Muslim country is hardly fair. You're right, none of it is healthy, that is the point of this article and the point of those who oppose this law and its implications.

Even though marital rape has only been recognized in The United States for just over 30 years, it is a real issue and not something made up by the United Nations.

Also disconcerting are the stipulations regarding child marriage and child custody issues. As Christians these should be concerns, that women and children are at risk. This is a country we are aiding with our military support and tax dollars, this is a very relevant concern.

Posted By: S. Scott | April 9, 2009 10:46 AM

Considering the millions of dollars the US is pouring into Afghanistan, I believe we should let our Congressional representatives know that we don't want our tax dollars used to support a law that allows rape and other rights abuses for women. Yes Ronnie, rape can occur within a marriage.

Posted By: K. | April 9, 2009 10:49 PM

The issue of rape within marriage is a delicate one. What draws a line bewteen rape and "legal sex" is the consent.

Posted By: Adeola kehinde | April 10, 2009 7:01 AM

The issue of rape in marriage is not just an issue of consent. It only became illegal to rape your wife in all 50 states of the US in 1993. In many states, there are still exemptions to the marital rape law, such as if the wife is physically or emotionally incapacitated (unable to consent), the husband cannot be charged with rape. yes we must be concerned for the women in Afganistan. But we should also be concerned for the women in the US who are not afforded all the protections of the law.

Posted By: Kate Johnson | April 10, 2009 7:15 AM

Can anybody here show me that this is NOT a redefinition?
Can anybody here show me that this new definition IS biblical?
Can anybody here show me that this new definition IS in societies best interest?
In closing, allow me to tell society- that if this new rape definition IS actually enforced- I will encourage my sons NOT to marry. There is far too much risk of life imprisonment.

Posted By: Ronnie V. | April 10, 2009 7:33 AM

Ronnie,
show me where in Scripture forced rape in marriage IS allowed? It is not, it is condemned (love your wife as your own body, 1 Pet3:7 treat your wives with respect). This is not a new definition, if I understand what you are asking. So if your sons are being brought up to honor women and their wives, this should not even be an issue as to stop them from getting married. Honorable Christian men who love the Lord would not even consider raping their wives as a option. And if your sons' wives are being treated with honor and respect, they would never think twice about making false accusations. So I am not sure what the problem is? Unless I am completely misunderstanding you - and if I am, please help me understand.

Posted By: Anonymous | April 10, 2009 1:40 PM

Ronnie,
In a country like Afghanistan, where women have few legal rights and low social status, I would be much more concerned about malicious husbands who might use the law to punish their wives. As you say, who verifies the "every fourth day" rule? If it comes down to he said/she said in an Afghan court, guess who's going to lose?

Posted By: M. Berry | April 10, 2009 8:13 PM

Ronnie - you appear to be seriously confused. Under old English common law (which every state in the US except Louisiana adopted at some point), rape has been illegal since time immemorial. States in this country also adopted penal codes based on the common law understandings of particular crimes, including rape. Rape was generally defined as sexual intercourse by a man with a woman by force or threat without the woman's consent. Until the end of the last century, however, there was an exception if the attacker was the husband of the victim (generally as long as they were living together). In other words, it was legal for a husband to force his wife to have sex.

Toward the end of the last century every US state abolished the exception that made marital rape legal. In other words, it is now considered to be rape when a husband uses force or intimidation to have sex with his wife without her consent. This is now also true in every Western democracy. So, in that regard, fairly recent laws that make marital rape illegal do change the definition of rape to now make marital rape illegal. This really is not controversial anymore. The world has not come to an end. (Yes, there can be false accusations with any type of rape, but that's what prosecutorial discretion and juries are for.)

The law being discussed in the CT article, though, is a law in Afghanistan. There, the history is different. I don't know what the status of Afghan rape law was going back to the time of the Soviet occupation, but at least under the Taliban, women had no rights, so marital rape was permitted. It was not illegal under the Taliban. After the US ousted the Taliban government, the Afghanis adopted a constitution that gave women equal rights. Thus, marital rape was not permitted (although in practice the ability of women to prosecute rape cases was still limited by tradition and culture). The new law, which Afghan Pres. Karzai first supported and now has agreed to reconsider, now permits marital rape (one part of the law seems to permit the rape every 4th night, but other parts imply it is permissible at any time). So, this is a change also, because it goes back to Taliban-style treatment of women, but it is a different change from what happened in the US. That's why our President, Vice Pres., and Sec. of State, among others have all spoken out against the law and urged Pres. Karzai to reconsider allowing the law to take effect.

Of course the Afghan law is not biblicaly-based: they are Muslims. The Afghan law is based on Sharia, which is the traditional legal code that some Muslims accept.

All Western democracies agree that marital rape IS rape (although there are some variations among the laws). It is a violation of a woman's fundamental human rights and personal dignity to be forced or coerced or threatened into sexual intercourse without her consent, regardless of whether the rapist is her husband or not. What part of the mercy of God would hold otherwise?

While there are always issues of proof in rape cases, whether marital or not, because almost always there are only 2 people present at the time, that doesn't affect whether the act of marital rape should be a crime in the first place. Moreover, rape is often (although not always) proven because the woman suffers physical injury (yes, even in marital rape cases). But, even where there are no injuries, circumstantial evidence can be used to prove the crime. Juries can be instructed that lack of physical injury is not proof that the woman consented. Unless your sons live somewhere other than the US or another Western democracy, this is the law they already live under.

Please be assured that these state laws prohibiting marital rape, which are in effect in every US state, are being enforced and enforced seriously. So, if you and your sons don't get the concept, please allow me to speak for women everywhere and urge you to keep your promise and keep your sons off the marriage market.

Posted By: Christian Lawyer | April 10, 2009 9:02 PM

Ronnie,
Arranged marriages which are so common in the Muslim world can create a situation in which a woman is raped by her husband. He husband might be a man she hardly knows and did not choose. One former Muslim friend told me how her marriage was arranged. After researching her family, the man she had never before met talked to her for about 10 minutes to make sure he thought she was ok, and they were married within 15 days. You could see how this situation puts a woman in a very vulnerable situation. If forced or concerced into marriage, considered unequal with men, it is highly unlikely she would ever exploit a marital rape law.

Posted By: Sar | April 18, 2009 10:27 PM

//Of course the Afghan law is not biblicaly-based: they are Muslims. The Afghan law is based on Sharia, which is the traditional legal code that some Muslims accept//

so what? just because its a muslim country doesn't mean is run on the sharia. the sharia is based from the quran and hadith.
ALL muslims try to follow sharia worldwide. again its based on 2 things we follow 1) quran and 2) hadith.
and theres nothing in islamic scriptures that allows this. if your gonna go to faith freedom, answering islam or investigate islam to pull out anything that goes against what i said please give it a rest they have been refuted by muslim men and women.
also this applies ONLY to the shiite women. i think this is more of a hatred law against them.

Posted By: Ali | June 26, 2009 12:13 AM

Thanks a lot blogger for a nice post. In a country like Afghanistan, where women have few legal rights and low social status, I would be much more concerned about malicious husbands who might use the law to punish their wives. As you say, who verifies the "every fourth day" rule? If it comes down to he said/she said in an Afghan court,

http://oopslaw.changjy.com/2009/10/21/rape-law-its-use-in-different-parts-of-world/

Posted By: David hogard | October 21, 2009 6:22 AM