Hermenuetics

Comments

I am a DUGGAR fan - often watch the shows many times. Although I "tried" to watch Jon & Kate + 8 a few times, it seemed each and every show Kate was putting Jon down. I doubt she would want any woman to treat her three sons that way. I think Kate should sit back and WATCH the episodes and how she appears to the public. If she does not find fault in her behavior than she has serious pyscopathic problems. I can not watch even a few minutes of their show now - and I think MANY others feel the same way - unless you like train wrecks!

On the other hand, the DUGGAR are delightful. Entirely different family structure. For one thing you will not see Michelle or any of her lovely daughters wearing a two pc bathing suit on the cover of a magazine like Kate of +8

Word to Kate: One more thing you've done in very poor taste my dear!

Michelle and Jim Bob are preparing the children for their adult lives. . . .and they are doing it in a team. They appear to be polite, kind hearted children. Wonderful to watch how they are growing up before our eyes. I especially like the newer shows about a couple/few individual children. I.E. - the dentist visits. I am looking forward to the birth of their first grandchild and will continue to watch for many years to come.

Thank goodness for this type of "family value" show. . .
which I would NOT consider J & K +8.

Posted By: sylvia | June 12, 2009 11:58 AM

I grew up in the same segment of the Quiverfull movement (Bill Gothard's) that the Duggars are in, as the oldest of 12 children - reading their book made me feel like I was reading my own life story. I hope and pray they are real...but unfortunately, I also know the power of that movement to make everything look good, no matter what reality is - which ironically, would likely make reality TV easier, because you're used to acting. So frankly, there is nothing I find fascinating about the Duggars, apart from watching my own life - nothing like seeing people take the same trips, wear the same clothes, watch the same movies, and use the same cookbooks you did just a few years earlier. :) As to Jon and Kate...I don't think reality shows are ultimately good for any family, and in their case, raising their family quietly in their local church and getting pastoral counseling for their marriage - for Jon to love Kate as Christ does the Church and for Kate to submit to Jon, would be far better.

Posted By: Lisa | June 12, 2009 1:38 PM

Sylvia, while I respect that we have far different beleifs, backgrounds and faiths, I am still shocked and appalled by the ending of your post. I do not believe that it would be better for Kate to submit to John. The entire concept of submission to one's spouse, either husband or wife is postively medieval. In a society where women have come so far, why would you believe the best course to save a couple's marraige would be for an obviously strong minded and independent woman to defy her entire nature and personality and surrender the choices and descisions of her life to her husband. I understand that a mutual respect is neccessary in any healthy relationship, but submissiveness is not at all healthy.

Posted By: Anonymous | June 12, 2009 5:22 PM

I respect the Duggars & Quiverfull, but I was sad when I learned that Michelle weans her kids at 6mos so her fertility will return. The AAP recommends breastfeeding for at least a year; the WHO for 2. Formula feeding carries many risks so she is compromising the health of her children just to get pregnant again. Breastfeeding is an integral part of God's design for fertility and should be respected as such.

Posted By: Annie | June 12, 2009 6:57 PM

These shows seem like a really bad idea to me. Having to maintain a marriage and your sanity while caring for that many kids would be a stretch enough for anyone. Adding a TV crew who is there all the time and will broadcast your every mistake to a national audience seems like a recipe for disaster.

Posted By: Joanna | June 12, 2009 7:24 PM

I'm not into reality tv, but I do enjoy watching the Duggar's.
They seem to remain down to earth and modest despite all of the media attention, and as we don't see them splashed all over the magazine stands - they obviously have figured out how to keep the balance between the public and private Duggar's.
Speaking as a viewer (because I don't know them in "reality"), they appear to be a good example of conservative Christians who "practice what they preach" and are respectful of others, regardless of any differences. While I can not fathom the whole Quiverfull thing for myself, I respect their ability to raise such responsible, articulate and admirable children amongst the chaos of their home & society itself.

Posted By: Jo | June 12, 2009 8:25 PM

The Duggars makes me feel like a failure as a mother.

Posted By: pao | June 15, 2009 4:44 PM

I watch the Duggers and prefer their show over the others, though my time spent watching the others is limited. This is my favorite show on television. I am able to learn through the limited scope given via the filtered lens and am entertained despite the simplicity of the concept. Duggars go shopping, manage an ice storm, visit "The View," etc. I loved these! I'm grateful for their courage to introduce the predominantly disasterous scenario of reality TV into their peaceful family and home, yet understand their incentive to do so, I guess, as an evangelical tool and as provision (Any idea what they earn per show? Probably 50k+). I've seen a lot of judgement aimed at them, yet it has been balanced with abundant praise, hopefully the latter tipping the scale. It is my humble opinion that each child is well loved and knows it, and we'll see if there's fruit from the tree. My money would be on it, but I'm no betting man (I'm a PhD in biostatistics and know better!). I enjoy recommending this show to others and have had many great discussions yielded. My experience with the big-family model has been positive, though there are (and will always be) arguments and exceptions. I see kids under this model having a greater sense of unity, responsibility, maturity, respect and values (i.e. those I consider important, such as: http://www.duggarfamily.com/characterqualities.html
http://www.duggarfamily.com/houseguidelines.html), particularly in the the way they treat others. . .

God bless you all!

Posted By: Brent (Charleston, SC) | June 16, 2009 6:34 PM

I have had a chance to speak to both Jim Bob and Michelle at length via phone while working on an article about how homeschool families celebrate the holidays and have found them both to be honest, down-to-earth, intelligent, happy, Christian people, and people whom I would love to visit someday with my wife and child. They are wonderful people and so much unlike other TV families as they have kept a perspective on what is important in life--not the ratings and money but instead those treasures that are laid up in heaven. The Duggars are real people who care for their family. May God continue to bless them mightily!

Posted By: John | June 16, 2009 6:36 PM

Its an ugly rumor that Michelle weans her kids at 6mos so her fertility will return. She says in their new book that she's living proof that you can get pregnant while breastfeeding.
I started watching Jon & Kate to see a show about raising multiples. But when they got their teeth whitened and Jon got a hair transplant, I stopped watching. Its turning into Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous.

Posted By: Lisa | June 16, 2009 9:12 PM

To compare the Gosselins to the Duggars is like comparing night to day. They both confess to being Christian families, but I believe that the Duggars are more authentic. Jim Bob and Michelle live out their faith - I don't think it matters how many children they have, it is how they are raised. Compared to the Gosselins, the hair transplant, the tummy tuck, the hair change, the weight loss, the rumored affairs, the Duggars do not have to worry about a thing. I think the world should start praying for the Gosselins or at least have Michelle counsel Kate to get back on the right Christian track. God Bless the Duggars and May God bless the Gosselins so they start legitimately caring for their children.

Posted By: Nancy Klintworth | June 16, 2009 9:22 PM

Lisa, I disagree with you about Kate submitting to Jon. To submit doesn't mean that she has to belittle herself, but that she is to allow Jon to be the head of the home as Christ is the head of the church. Of course, Jon also must allow Christ to be his "head" and submit to the Lord. I don't know this couple personally so I can't tell as a fact that both of them are not in proper submission, but it sure appears that both of them need to get it right between themselves and with God.

Posted By: Anonymous | June 17, 2009 7:25 AM

I watched Jon and Kate one time, about a year ago. I was shocked and disgusted by Kate's behavior. She is rude to her husband and her children. It's one thing to celebrate a woman's contemporary independence and quite another to be an overbearing contentious wife and mother. I never watched the show again, as I saw the storm brewing back then. Nancy, you are right, neither Jon nor Kate are in submission to the Lord! As for the Duggars, I've been watching since Michelle was pregnant with #17. Because they keep their first love, Jesus, before them, everything else falls into place. May they never lose sight of that!!

Posted By: Joan | June 17, 2009 8:49 AM

What I don't like about the Duggars is that they do not seem to encourage their children to think for themselves. What if one of their daughters actually wanted to be a scientist instead of a stay at home mom of 30 kids? *GASP* What if one of their children decides they DON'T want a gaggle of children? *GASP* They don't give their children the option of being their own individuals. They're all the SAME! It appears (APPEARS, though I don't know them personally) that the kids are taught from a very early age that there is only ONE right way to deal with family, birth control, schooling, etc.

I'm sure they certainly have the right and freedom to live according to their convictions. Good for them! I applaud that! But, there are other ways to live out the Christian faith that are just as legitimate and God-honoring.

Posted By: Robyn | June 17, 2009 9:57 AM

And the Bible does not say that the husband is the head of the home. Head of the wife, yes. (What exactly that means is debatable, obviously.) Head of the home, no. So, yeah.

Posted By: Anonymous | June 17, 2009 10:02 AM

I am not advocating that the Duggar family represents the ONLY way to live out the Christian faith...then I would be in trouble, as I do not share most of their conservative practices. But aren't we all, in a way, taught that there is one "right way" to deal with family, birth control, and schooling? Just as I can't imagine doing it their way, they can't imagine doing it mine. We are all limited by our own experiences, and I think (and of course this all perception based on the show, as I do not know them personally) that they are simply instilling in their children Biblical values as best they understand them, and they all seem to demonstrate the fruits of the spirit. Would the Duggar children be happier if they were more exposed to different ideas? Possibly. Would I be happier if I had been raised like the Duggars? Who knows. But, judging at least by the example of Josh, the oldest, they seem to be prepared for a happy life in the family and social circle of which they are a part. And more importantly, they are pursuing what they believe the Lord has called them to, which is something I think we all want to be said of our children and families.

Posted By: Laura Leonard | June 18, 2009 9:04 AM

When I first started watching Jon and Kate, I enjoyed it,
as time went on, I found Kate's behavior unexcusable.
Her constant whining and berating of Jon was nuts.
Although I don't agree with everything to do with the
Duggars, their obvious love for the Lord and each other
is truly inspiring.

Posted By: Gina | June 19, 2009 8:50 AM

I have watched both shows, and by far, prefer the Duggars.

First and foremost, I love the way Michelle and Jim Bob speak to each other with such respect and love, and it carries out to their children and others around them. It certainly shows the fruits of the Holy Spirit in their lives, as well as all the tools God has given us to communicate with each other. Something I’m guilty of not always using. In turn, their children have learned the same traits, and have the same love and respect among each other and their parents.

I haven't seen the show with the Masches yet, but honestly, am not interested.

But, this post certainly did spin one of on my blog!

Posted By: GiBee | June 19, 2009 9:54 AM

One problem with the Quiverfull movement: where does the money come from? My wife and I stopped at 2 kids, who are now grown and on their own, but we are strapped with enormous debt due to several layoffs over the past 24 years (I am currently unemployed and my wife has been unable to work due to health problems). Of course, we all know that "God will provide"; the question is when? I need $212K NOW, not after I die. I cannot even expect to retire; I will have to work till I die, barring a miracle, even if I live till I'm 80. As such, I cannot find inspiration in other people's good fortunes.

Posted By: MesaP | June 20, 2009 12:44 PM

The Duggars are wonderful! I just love their show. They are the real thing while some other tv families are NOT!
I respect their godly lifestyle. They obviously honor God with the way they treat their children and each other--with love and respect. Michelle never raises her voice. Her sweet and gentle countenance is a gift to her children and husband. I admire greatly how they have put their lives into God's hands and are enjoying his blessings. I loved their book, too! I hope this program never ends!!!

Posted By: Christine | June 23, 2009 5:12 PM

Although I don't agree with everything the Duggar family believes in (for example, why have none of the eldest children that have graduated from high school go to college? I know a couple of them wanted to pursue careers that would involve college, such as midwifery), I do think they are a wonderful family. Although they are heavily criticized by the mainstream media for their own beliefs, I have always observed them being very careful about whether or not they are judging other people. They seem very careful to frame what they say with, "We believe" and "What works for us". Thus, I think they get something right that so many of us Christians don't.... they don't throw stones, at least not on television.

Posted By: Sara | June 28, 2009 12:57 AM

I'm sorry. As the eldest of 8 children, homeschooled, raised in a very conservative christian home...

I find the Duggars, their worldview, their theology, and their choice to have so many kids appalling. I'm a Christian, and I do believe in the importance of family - but I disagree SO FULLY with their "be fruitful and multiply" approach. I think it is unbiblical and wrong.

They may indeed be "nice people", but that doesn't make their behaviour something that should be emulated by ANYONE.

It's just sickening to me. I feel really bad for their kids. I hope that, like me, they can one day break free of their upbringing and learn to think for themselves and find THEIR OWN faith in christ rather than aping their parents beliefs and practices.

Posted By: Gloria | July 2, 2009 2:30 PM

I have a hard time with the fact that the Duggars continue to have more biological children rather than helping take care of the MANY children who are already in the world who desperately need homes.

I pray for the Duggars. I've watched the show a couple of times and there's at lest one daughter who seems very unhappy. I don't understand why their adult children are bound by the same rules that the younger ones have. Why can't the girls use some of their own money to buy clothes that they want to wear? Why must they continue to wear denim skirts everywhere?

And what if they don't find a man to take care of them? Will they be able to go to college, educate themselves and provide for themselves? I hope so. Although God is definitely a God of order and truth, he is also a God of freedom and I don't see a lot of freedom in the Duggar household.

Posted By: Lisa | July 10, 2009 9:45 AM

@Laura: Actually, I was taught by my parents that there ARE more than one way to glorify God, to deal with family, birth control, and schooling. My parents were always careful to encourage me to think for myself, to research and dialogue, to recognize that there is more than one way to do things and that, most often, those ways are equally valuable. So, no, I wasn't taught that there is one right way to do things. And I try to allow my children the same freedom of thought.

Posted By: robyn | July 13, 2009 2:02 PM

Its not fair to compair Duggars to Gosselins. The Duggars don't have more that 2 kids the same age. As time went on and the Duggars kept having kids, they have the older ones to take care of the younger ones. The Gosselins have twins going through the same thing at the same time (or close to the same time)along with sextuplets going through the same things as well. Its not fair to compare the two families because the older Duggar kids get a buddys for the day which basically means they do everything the parent would ie: waking the kid up, giving the kid a bath, making sure teeth is brush, lessons are done and just everything for them that day. The Gosselins can't just give one of the sextuplets to one of the twins because A) the twins are only 2 or 3 years older and B)its not fair. People talk about Jon and Kate but there doing what the Duggars can't; and thats giving each and every one of there kids special attention and nuturing them to be there own people, not to look and act the same way.

Posted By: Anonymous | September 1, 2009 2:20 AM

The Duggars are completely unreal. You see no independent thought, no real strong personalities, you see a bunch of little clones--as is the case for many many in the Gothard scene. They do not give to their children what our Heavenly Father desires to give to us; marriage and families are examples of what is in store for us in eternity in our relation to our Creator and Jesus. The reality inside these kids heads and hearts is really not what you are seeing on TV. Many of the kids inside this way of life even know of other kids who step out of line and get sent away to Gothard's boarding schools/boot camps.

They live under fear and heavy rules that do not even allow them to be normal individuals. It puts God's Word and love to shame. Their acceptance inside the family is conditional as long as they tow the line.

God made us different for a reason, we are unique, we have strengths and weakness that are utilized by Him. It is not ok to snuff out all individuality. It is not Biblical or ok to worship certain cultural aspects or traditions to the point that they take away from Jesus's message. It is not ok to twist the Word of God and add to it in order to defend that culture or tradition, to rationalize errant human behavior even if that errant behavior makes you appear to be "holy" or zealous.

These outward things are not salvation, they do not make one "holy", and they are not supported by the Word of God. Jesus fulfilled the law, he did not come and add laws to govern every single area of life. It would be easier and more convenient if there was a nice formula one could follow in every aspect of daily life that answered every question, but there isn't. To promote a certain culture as holier than another is outright wrong and completely unbiblical.

And the children from these families are having their entire relationship with Christ twisted and distorted. Gothard is actively doing damage to the God's children and to God's Truth.

Posted By: Lunachic | September 5, 2009 1:30 PM

I have met and known many many Gothard families beginning in the 1970's until present, and there is a reoccurring theme that is present 100% of the time. Authoritarian husbands, parents filled with fear of the "world", husbands and sometimes wives who want to control, micromanage and have an answer for every aspect of living. Fear (resulting in control and authoritarian issues), lack of real God-centered Grace (resulting in the lack of recognition and understanding of the Cross, Jesus and the freedom of real salvation) present 100% of the time--yes, 100% of the time.

Posted By: Lunachic | September 5, 2009 2:05 PM

I've watched most of the episodes of both "Jon and Kate Plus 8" and "!8 Kids and Counting."
I really believe that both families are real, and all those kids have a chance at a normal, Christian life.

I don't believe it's fair of us to call anyone or anything "Anti-Gosselin" or bash that family in any way. What we read in tabloids or see on the cover of People is not a fair way to judge someone's faith or ability to raise their children. Also, those children deserve better than us disrespecting their parents.

The Duggars are much more strict and have a much more conservative lifestyle. Their children seem happy for the most part. It amazes me that Michelle never yells at them and that they are so patient and loving towards each other. The children laugh and run around, and I think their cousin Amy gives us a pretty fair glance into their life from a more unbiased point of view.

Posted By: Tori | January 14, 2010 10:40 PM

I like watching a program about a household that is structured on Christianity, yet I know that the Duggars are very camera-aware and so many incidents seem chorographed. I found it difficult to believe that Michelle and Bob's reaction to Josh's pregnancy announcement was initial; I'm sure that cameraman went through several takes to get it just right. There are strategic placements of objects, such as the open Bible on Josh and Anna's honeymoon bed. We viewers have heard many times about wholesome swimwear. I believe in modesty but not to the point of being Puritanical about it; to do so is to be ashamed of the wonderful bodies the Lord gave us. Those kids are absolutely little clones and I still have difficulty telling the three older girls apart. There is the issue of individual preference. Does every Duggar son really want to play violin and wear a polo shirt every day of the year? And while I don't need to see fighting and drama, I cannot believe frustrations and lost tempers are never shown. These are human qualities, we all have them, and they would make for valuable discussions about conflict and resolution. A little more realism, please. Spirituality can be messy at times and we are all works in progress.

Posted By: Penny | March 9, 2010 12:46 AM

I have to agree with Lunachic and Tori here. Some of Gothard's teachings on family size, birth control, adoption are extra-biblical and yet they are taken as God-breathed. That said, I like the Duggar's. They seem genuine, yet the lifestyle they live (as opposed to when they didn't have a reality show) is not reality to most Quiverfull families. I wish they had a "disclaimer" because they are the "model" for huge families and most families this size need public assistance just to cope. I also think they discourage their girls from higher education and what is biblical about that? I also think Michelle couldn't cope without the older girls doing so much of the work in schooling the younger children, housework, cooking, cleaning etc... Working as a family and having responsibilities is one thing...imho...the older girls are work horses.

Posted By: Sue | March 13, 2010 12:39 PM

Even though the bible doesn`t mention that the man is not the head of a home i believe that christianity has a real longbackground and history , So sad that it exist one Christ , One Jesus and we are very diversified in our faith. The lord prayer was so'' Father, let them be one, as me and you are one body'' An example to be followed from our mater.

Posted By: Mutuelle santé | September 20, 2010 4:22 AM

After reading all of these posts and conglomeration of "righteous" ideas, I have a very sad heart. In the midst of authoritarianism vs. tolerance, it seems the mind of Christ is nowhere to be found. The true believer who follows hard after Christ. The true believer who seeks understanding from the Word of God. I find it hard to see Christ involved in these types of arguments. God is the judge of these families, not me, not you. If you don't agree with how they do things, then it is the gift from God to fulfill God's commands in your life as He has convicted you and taught you. That is a privilege and not a right! God allowed you the freedom to make choices, the way He has allowed each of these families to make choices. Have no fear...He will judge all in the end! Heb 9:27. I am not advocating everyone for themselves with no direction, but I am encouraging each one to examine the "beam in your own eye, before you pull out the splinter in their eye." Matt. 7:3-5. I think it would do us all good to be more concerned about our hearts before the Living and Coming Righteous Judge, then what this family or that family does.

Posted By: Jessica | November 17, 2010 8:44 PM

Your post is so important. Recently the cost of those cultural values you describe was brought home to me by my 14 year old granddaughter's suicide threat on facebook when her boyfriend broke up with her. Fortunately she was stopped by her grandmother and some of her friends. That's the cost of our culture saying you're nothing without a man. Thanks Again! revbarb

Posted By: Barbara Worden | August 17, 2011 9:37 AM