Hermenuetics

Comments

I find this incredibly stupid. Is there really a party out there that embodies only Christian principles? One can be a Democrat and oppose their anti-Christian platforms just as many Republicans do not subscribe to the Republican ideal. It's not naive of me to say there are even pro-choice Republicans out there, some of whom are leaders. If the Republican Party is truly the Christian party, then how can they tolerate such antichristian beliefs in their own ranks?

Posted By: Merciel | July 1, 2009 3:13 PM

I think Liberty should throw out ALL political groups. The Repubs are as bad as the Dems.

Posted By: alison | July 1, 2009 3:53 PM

I think it is important to separate our faith from political ideology and recognition with a group because neither party represents all Christian principles. We can then step in with our faith in the forefront of our mind and make choices appropriate to each election. Faith should be first then political choices. I thing the right thing to do would be to not have any official student political groups at a Christian university. It seems like Liberty handled the situation ineffectively. Its unfortunate.

Posted By: Melissa | July 1, 2009 3:59 PM

I definitely do not think someone needs to subscribe to every belief of a group in order to belong. Most Christians agree on a few, important beliefs that combine to make a person "Christian". But just looking at the sheer number of Protestant denominations alone shows that not everyone agrees on Biblical interpretation of smaller things. Also, I don't agree with my parents or husband on a number on issues, but does this make me less a member of the family? I certainly hope not.

One point I find interesting is the note that "conservative" groups have been targeted for years. While this may be true (my own public, liberal arts college in the south tried to ban military recruiters from campus when I was there) that doesn't mean it is right.

When you start talking Democrat versus Republican platform, most people start to think of a few, polarizing issues and nothing else (i.e abortion or homosexuality). Most average citizens follow neither platform fully, but must pick the one most closely linked to their views because we simply and rarely have few other choices. There are many issues I lean towards the Democratic platform, and others for the Republican. I think it is incredibly naive to call the Republican party the "Christian" party without a comparative look at their true platform versus Biblical principles.

I think it is actually a wise idea that if political parties are going to be represented on college campuses, even private, religious campuses, that all should at least have a voice because then (possibly) honest debate can occur. In a Christian school, platforms of the parties can be openly compared to Biblical principles and people can make educated decisions. After all, isn't that part of what college is about? If nothing else, for example, an ardent conservative Republican supporter can learn about the Democratic beliefs he or she is so against and why they are so "wrong".

Posted By: NicoleJ | July 1, 2009 4:11 PM

While I wouldn't necessarily call the Republican party the "Christian Party", I do agree that the major issues that Democrats stand for do oppose the Christian belief. So, as unpopular as I can imagine this statement will be, I gotta say that GENERALLY speaking, Christians AND Non-Christians can be Republicans, but I do always wonder why a Christian would choose to be a Democrat. I think that the major issues - which are issues of morality - do trump most other issues. It would be nice of Liberty to allow the Democrat club to exist, but I also respect their right to refuse it. The church has become so wishy-washy these days that it is refreshing to see a stand (even in unpopular) to refuse compromise. The students who attend there dont necessarily have to believe it, but they do have to respect the beliefs and/or rules that go with them, even if they seem silly.

Posted By: Liz | July 1, 2009 11:13 PM

Liz, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Both sides have "Christian" beliefs, and it also depends on your interpretation of the Bible. If you look at Christ's example of being a non-military Messiah (much unlike the Jews were expecting), I could see why you would align yourself with the Democratic party. After all, they are less likely to enter into a war. Also, the democrats tend to lean towards a "care for the orphans and the widowed" worldview, at least as far as government responsibility is concerned. As far as homosexual marriage is concerned, I see no reason in the Bible to oppose gay marriage. Marriages that are issues by our government (not our churches, our government) are legal, not spiritual, in nature. They provide many rights for couples. They are completely different from the marriages of the Bible. Abortion is probably the big hold up for most people. However, I'm guessing many democrats view that issue pragmatically. Abortion has been legal for 36 years. It wasn't changed when there was a republican president and a republican majority in the Congress, so it's probably not going to be changed anytime soon.

All that to say, there are certain reasons for being a Republican and certain reasons for being a Democrat. By Liberty choosing to take "a stand", they simply decided that some issues are more important than other issues.

It disgusts me how married the Christian faith, Republicanism, and patriotism are all to each other. I would HATE for some of the actions of the US to be looked upon as "Christian." I'm spending my second summer on the music staff at a Christian camp. Last summer, we sang a song about America with the lyrics,

"The faith of a common people
Who are not ashamed to say
We still believe "In God We Trust"
In the USA"

It saddens me that anyone would look at the actions of the US and equate them with God or Christianity. We have done some despicable things in our history. Why would we ever want to put God's name on those actions?

Posted By: Adam | July 2, 2009 9:27 AM

I think saying things like "While I wouldn't necessarily call the Republican party the "Christian Party", I do agree that the major issues that Democrats stand for do oppose the Christian belief" is incredibly dangerous. Which issues, specifically, are you talking about? Republicans tend to believe in a free-market system - are you saying that a system run by greed, which leaves the poor to fend for themselves, is what Jesus had in mind when he told us to not care about material wealth, and to care for the poor? Based off that, I think we could make a case that Democrats (who generally favor higher taxes, which go to public programs) is the more "Christian" party. Of course, I think that labeling parties that was is a horrible idea, so I don't want to do that. I'm not saying that capitalism is bad - on the contrary, I think we should keep religion out of politics. I think there are many great arguments for both Republican and Democratic ideals - each side has some very smart, educated followers. What I am saying though, is that when we start saying that certain politcal parties are more "Christian" than another, we're entering extremely dangerous territory. I'll preface this by saying I know I'm biased, but I think, if we look objectively at what Bush did for the past 8 years, we we see a person who started/continued two wars in which thousands and thousands of people died (say what you will about the wars - but I think we can all agree that innocent civilians dying is probably not a good thing), and although he ran on a "Christian values" campaign, abortions continued to take place on a very large scale, and gay people shockingly continued to be gay. Why some Christians continue to think that you "must" align with a certain political party (and that that administration will act in a "Christian" way) is baffling to me.

Posted By: Lauren | July 2, 2009 9:50 AM

I do believe that there will be Democrats in heaven ... and we just might be surprised who ends up there - and who's absent. God's Word reminds us that "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved" - Joel 2:32. Let's take a deep breath before we judge and condemn. I'm glad that the final results will be by the One who judges justly. And it won't be me - or you.

Sadly, the Republican party has repeatedly shot itself in the foot, and has modeled poor behavior and made decisions that are open for discussion. At this point in time, I'm very wary of claiming it as my voice.

I think that God, whose ways are so far beyond our own, is sadly shaking His head as He looks down on His people as we attempt to orchestrate everything around us.

Let's give our young adults the freedom and wisdom to begin to integrate their faith and their politics, to discover their own biblical worldview. Let's allow them the ability to wrestle with the hard questions, and trust that the Holy Spirit is able to guide them into all truth, as His Word says He will do (John 16:13).

Posted By: Linda Stoll | July 3, 2009 8:27 AM

Let me clarify - I did NOT say the Republicans were a Christian party. I did NOT say that every Christian must be a republican. And I did NOT say that how what the USA does should be labeled Christian. I think there is bad behavior in BOTH parties. I think there is a much hypocrisy in BOTH parties. I think most of the time, when we choose one of the major two parties, we choose the least of two evils! (for lack of better words).

Adam - Yes, Jesus was not a military type, but I don't think his stand was "anti war". He had an agenda, and came to accomplish it - and didn't get wrapped up in the political scene. I will disagree with you on the gay marriage thing. As it stands, gay people have the legal rights that married people have with a civil union, except for the use of the word marriage. Since its for legal purposes only, then why must the word "marriage" be insisted upon? The very creation of marriage IS spiritually based. People have the right to live however they choose to - but why force ME to have to say its OK. I wouldn't want to force them to say that my religious beliefs are OK. You are right though, abortion hasn't changed, no matter who is in office, and I don't anticipate it will change anytime soon, but I do appreciate knowing when certain candidate at least "feels" opposed to it, however useless that might be. :)

Lauren - I hope you understand now that I didn't mean that Republicans are equal to Christians. I definitely don't think this is the case, and I don't think I said that to begin with. I totally agree that politics and religion should be separate. Government shoudl definitely stay out of religion. However, we cant help but be influenced by our beliefs in all other areas of our lives, including who we vote for, etc.

But since this all began with Liberty's statement, I guess the "safest" thing that Liberty could do if they felt that a certain political group contradicted their values, would be to not allow any political groups at all. It would probably anger/disappoint a lot of people, but at very least it would be fair.

Linda - We shoudl give today's youth the freedom to figure out life, religious and politics for themselves. But sadly, most of our young people, including the "churched" youth, have been taught that "absolute truth" is "wrong" and politically incorrect, thereby tossing out the ability to stand up for what the bible says as the final authority. (which has nothing to do with politics, but just life in general)

Thanks for the discussion - I know some of you disagree, but I appreciate the respectful discussions on this board.

Posted By: Anonymous | July 3, 2009 8:38 PM

We don't know what the platform of this particular Democratic unit is, or, was and why the Committee Head felt he should resign from the unit. What this particular platform said might be the problem. Anyway, Jesus never said we couldn't be political according to our beliefs. His main command to the Apostles was to go forth and spread the word of Jesus. Now if a party contradicts the basic order of Jesus we can certainly say something especially if it goes against the teachings of Jesus (his word). You pick how, hide in caves until the outside world changes or be killed, be killed for your views, stand up for the morals and thus the teachings of Jesus which in effect spreads the word. Helping the poor is an order to individuals to do so, not the government to do so. Government is to keep law and order or to provide for citizens as a whole what they can't do as individuals, like clean water cannels, etc. Early Christians did not, I repeat did not, carry weapons. That came centuries later as man changed the Christian viewpoint about physically defending yourself or giving yourself up to your enemy. The Resurrection wouldn't have happened if Jesus would have been a weapon carrier. We are to spread the word and that means if you need to change the government politics you live under, well do it or walk away period. It's your choice. If this Democractic unit was saying otherwise, we don't know, if it was, it is going against Jesus' teachings and thus should be removed from the campus. It can rent a room elsewhere to spread its teachings. Contradicting politics should be covered in classes under teachers who can make sure the students don't end up being brainwashed but learn how to study and learn the differences of opinions and hopefully choose to maintain and become stronger in their Christian beliefs. That's what college should be about because young minds need to learn how to pick out the bad from the good as their brains mature and gain the comprehension that older brains have matured to and not just listen to one person's political belief. During the 60s we ended up with a bunch of socialists after being taught by people in college to young immatured minds and we're paying for it today. And parents paid for that too.

Posted By: Anna | July 4, 2009 12:35 AM

I have to say that it's very encouraging to see a mature political discussion. Lots of disagreement, but no name calling or throwing of labels. For my own comment I say that one of the best things we can do is separate Religion and Patriotism. Just because I hold certain political or religious beliefs does not mean I am more or less of a patriot. There is no such thing as "un-American" as long as you are for democracy, and the freedom of everyone else to disagree with you.

But I do worry for the Christian youth (of which I am one) who are afraid to stand for anything absolute. I interpret absolute truth as a set of principles, not rules. Principles that may be interpreted differently by different people, but principles that are present and relevant nonetheless. The collegiate in the church need to know that it doesn't make them any less of a thinker or intellectual if they choose to stand by their spiritual beliefs.

Posted By: Anonymous | July 4, 2009 2:57 AM

My daughter goes to Liberty. This is a hyped-up non controversy. Liberty has school sanctioned clubs and clubs that are non-sanctioned. A non sanctioned club can freely meet and the Democrat club was offered everything the sanctioned clubs have. The only thing is that a school-sanctioned club has to meet standards of the University. Since the Democratic party has legal abortion as a main plank of their platform the school will not recognize them as a sponsored club. They are in no way kept from meeting or censored in what they can say - they just cannot claim to represent Liberty.

Posted By: Teri | July 4, 2009 5:08 PM

I believe, love and adhere to the teachings of Jesus in submission to His sovereignty as our Lord, Savior and Son of the living God. I am also very aware that racism is not of God but very satanic. To say that the democratic party should not be represented at this University quickly brings to my heart and mind the traces and behaviors of bigots, racists bigots that are as real as God Himself. These racists are often from my experience found in the Republican Party feigning Holiness that they DO NOT HAVE. Racists raise their children to hate any and everything that does not have white skin. They do not pray for their brothers and sister in Christ but instead condemn them to their sins and hold themselves in arrogance above them because they lack the wisdom and heart to see beyond superficial skin tones.

I don't affiliate myself to the Democratic Party because I see the unholiness of what they are doing and trying to get the world to cosign onto, but I do pray for them. Just as I pray for the Republican Party whose lies, deceit and greed have ran the country's economy into dust. Neither side is more holy then the other and that keeps coming out more and more as hypocrits get caught doing the very deeds they condemn the other party for. Unbelievable the offenses that both sides have against the people of this country and unbelievable the use of God to justify evil in them both.

However, thank God, that He is God and that He is not fooled by any of it. We all will either rise or fall together because one is not above the other and all are accountable to Him. Careful who you judge and what are kind of heart you are judging from.

Posted By: Angel | July 6, 2009 9:48 AM

Linda, I appreciate you writing, "Let's give our young adults the freedom and wisdom to begin to integrate their faith and their politics, to discover their own biblical worldview. Let's allow them the ability to wrestle with the hard questions, and trust that the Holy Spirit is able to guide them into all truth, as His Word says He will do (John 16:13)."

As a recent college graduate, I certainly struggled and wrestled with, first of all, what my political ideology was, and secondly, the bigger question of "how do I engage in the political sphere in light of my faith?" I have gone from conserative to liberal to apathetic to moderate, and I thank the open-mindedness and varied viewpoints of my college professors (a Christian college) and peers for the way they challenged me to think through politics. So, although I do not know much about Liberty (aside from a few discussions with people who went there), I do think it's important to at least allow young people - who either just turned 18, or who will be able to vote soon - the opportunities to engage with politics in many ways. I certainly don't think that any political party is inherently more "Christian" than another; however, I think that Liberty's actions gives off the message that a genuine Christian wouldn't be a Democrat. I certainly understand Liberty not wanting to align themselves with a pro-choice party, but by doing this, it seems that they are making abortion the #1 sin, while disregarding many other problematic areas. Maybe the best way to deal with this is, as someone said above, to not even have politcal groups on campus. I'm not sure. Anyway, I appreciate the honest, kind-hearted discussion regarding this subject! It's certainly something I continue to struggle with and I appreciate reading the thoughts of others.

Posted By: Lauren | July 6, 2009 10:32 AM

I very much appreciate the thoughtful and courteous discussion here....I am no longer identifying myslef as "Christian" which is said, because so many of the so-called that I know, do not really reflect the true meaning of wthe word..."Follower of Christ" I was raised in a fundamentalist homw, attended church 4 times a week, attended a Baptist high school run by teachers and acolytes of Bob Jones University, and have read the Bible through many many times. When I attended a secular college I was accused of becoming tainted by 'humanism' as if this was the equivalent of devil worship...when I chose to marry a Catholic man ( who professed Christ as his Savior, and was willing to marry outside his faith) the Baptist church I attended, taught Sunday school, and played the piano for refused to marry us, unless my fiance would "renounce" Catholicism. they told me that I was "deceived"

They did however have no problem marrying a 30 something year old deacon to an 18 year old girl, who they had allowed to date while she was still a minor.

Linda,I really like the part of your article which discusses group beliefes and group membership. Psychological studies do show that any group, over time, becomes a victim of its own success in a way, as it tends to focus on conformity and ostracize those who question the "party line"

I have yet to find any group which tolerates questioning the held beliefs...anad I am all cor peaceful co-existence. It seems to threaten folks so much to hear doubts expressed. I don't understand why everythign has to be absolute. Seems to me , like any relationship, one's realtionship to God will evolve over time as well.

My two cents.

Posted By: Kim Jennings | August 22, 2009 8:30 AM