Hermenuetics

Comments

Alicia's honesty is refreshing. Sincere Christian seekers can catch it from both sides. On the one hand many mainline denominational churches have lost their zeal and have degenerated into social clubs that promote largely liberal social/political causes, invoking religion as a cover for what is primarily a political or social agenda. On the other hand are the "my-way-or-the-highway" fundamentalists who can exhibit a stunning judgmentalism/exclusivity/closed-mindedness. Community churches are enjoying a resurgence, but methinks there are a lot of sincere Christians out there who, out of frustration with their local church, use outside social networks (like the internet) to maintain fellowship with other Christians, as opposed to consistent church attendance.

Posted By: Truthmeister | September 17, 2009 2:48 PM

Been there with both Lotz and Cohn. Worshiped for awhile in the early 70's with Plymouth Brethren and Church of Christ exiles who gathered at a local community center. Did the house church & guitar thing for several years, and finally gave up in the early80's, praying, "Lord, place us where you can use us." O wow, did he! Found freedom in an old fashioned American Baptist inner city church for 14 years and now 16 years in a suburban ECA Covenant church. Both have had awful, terrible ups and downs, but the relationships with the faithful have been sweet. Church has multiple purposes, including I suppose meeting my needs, but they are first avenues of worship and being equiped to serve. I learned from my exile, but have been used in steady service through a small body of believers. Grace & Peace

Posted By: Fred in Omaha | September 17, 2009 3:01 PM

I identify very closely with this post. I have ofen wondered if going to church was worth it when it seems so empty of any meaningful experience. I've church-hopped, still haven't found anywhere that seems to have genuine community. It's sad, really. But I try not to give up hope that somewhere exists a group of people who truly want to love each other in more than a superficial, shallow way--who aren't too busy or too scared to risk real intimacy--who are actually WELCOMING of others rather than clique-ish and closed-off. I have serious doubts about "the church," and I'm often reprimanded by other Christians for my feelings, which really just reinforces them.

Posted By: Seeker | September 17, 2009 4:08 PM

I have been hurt by Church leadership as well.
I think that is part of the process of growing in grace and the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
If there were no need for forgiveness, why are we admonished to forgive? And humility demands that we, not they, may be wrong. I look at Church as like a marriage or a job. I have been hurt at work and in my marriage as well. I never quit a job or marriage and only quit a church when I discovered they did not honor our Creator... i.e. They were not pro-life. The Church I currently attend has hurt me several times and not in trivial ways. Some of it may have been misunderstandings. I greet people and leave early because I have a ministry in a convalescent home. I try to maintain a real relationship with people there. I understand Church is essential to growing up.

Posted By: John Sinclair | September 17, 2009 5:41 PM

Has anyone not been hurt in church? I mean, seriously, you don't have to spend too long in a church without suffering from someone else's issues... and them suffering from yours!

It's just too easy to decide that you can't stay because you've been wounded. Nehemiah rebuilt the wall around Jerusalem with burned, broken stones... we're all burned, broken LIVING stones and we all need to find a place in the walls of the Kingdom of Heaven where we can belong.

I've been hurt by church leadership and I am church leadership, and I have been hurt by the congregation members also. We hurt each other, but as has been said, there's a reason why we're admonished to forgive over and over again ... because practice makes perfect.

There's an old Chinese proverb: It's better to light a candle in the darkness than to curse the darkness. Church is still God's way of reaching the world... we're still the Body of Christ, and if the hand says to the foot that it's not part of the Body any more, it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

God help us, if we can't work it through, what hope do we have of letting the world know that we are His disciples.

Posted By: Bev Murrill | September 17, 2009 5:51 PM

I know there are many me included that have been horribly treated by the church. And I know there are more and more quitting the church. I have felt like it several times. But the question I have is the Christian community stronger in America now or weaker. Jesus himself was horribly hurt by his church far more than anyone else. Yet still he died for it. His through his Spirit formed the body of Christ the church. Most of the NT was written to believers in who met in a structured invironment. They dealt with the same issue we deal with today yet the church moved on stronger and stronger. If I see the Christian community become stronger because they are leaving the church than I'll believe that it is right. I do not think that will happen? I will continue to grow through the pain of relationship and celebrate the fact that God never quit on me no matter how much I hurt Him. One thing we ought to consider before quitting the church and church hopping is the pain we cause by doing so not only to the strong Christians but the weak Christians. They may watch us and not onlly quit the church but quit on Christ also. I do not want to stand before Christ and see that.

Posted By: Wendall | September 18, 2009 9:55 AM

The church is not perfect but Christ is.

If we call ourselves believers then we need the church and the church needs us.

We are exhorted to build each other up, encourage each other, pray with each other, rejoice with each other, and weep with each other. "Cyber church" will not cut it.

I do understand that some people are hurt by the church. But that is no reason to stay away from the bride of Christ. Yes, we are sinful and miss the mark. But Christ is fashioning us to be his bride. And we shall be perfect as Father is perfect, ultimately.

I pray that those who have felt betrayed, wounded, insecure, used and hurt in other ways would personally sense the love of God, the support, love and building up of God's people the church.

Posted By: D. Bhagwan | September 18, 2009 5:11 PM

Some people think too much and don't act enough. I have been a regular at several churches over the years depending on where I was living, but largely at the same one during my early single days and now for the past 20 years married and single again. I have worked on the the staff part time in my 20's and again in my 50's with parachurch jobs and business jobs in between. Rarely during that time have I been satisfied or excited about the current state of affairs at any of those churches-maybe a couple of 2 year stretches until something happened that tore people apart- even now we haven't had a good teaching pastor for many years. I know why particularly single people feel left out, since my wife died in her 40's, much of my social life has shriveled, just disappeared. But, there are a ton of people out there who need me as part of their congregation. Someone they have known and trust because of time spent together, someone who really cares about how they are doing, someone who understands what it means to be a widow while I am still quite able to physically go and help those my parents age, someone to visit shutins- they come in all ages, someone to reach out to the others who look uncomfortable or on the fringe of the big time latest going thing that the 30 something staff think is a big deal. Someone to just make them feel loved during their trip to this mediocre church. Going somewhere else isn't going to improve things for long. I know too many friends who have moved around to various churches over the years and they don't stop for long. Some have been through here twice and are still moving. I don't really think it is proper to leave unless I am sent or the leadership is obviously ignoring sin in the camp. These are the people God has given me to live with, take turns serving and being served, and even learn with through the tough times. God has used the unlikely members to bless me as well.

Posted By: phi | September 18, 2009 9:43 PM

Graham Lotz can be right and wrong.If we didn't remember or realize that we as individual is the church or if we see the assemblies of the churches as a the problem she can be excused to think so.If not we and she is the church and the building with denominational name where the churches gathered daily or occasionally cannot be ignored and mind you that the we're the churches individually we're still in the world we've not been perfected.I think what the holy spirit says or tells an individual church matters.But mind you we cannot make alone we need others too.

Posted By: Emmanuel Mbara Omeagu | September 19, 2009 8:10 AM

Good post and interesting comments. I think there is a movement afoot. "Church," as in a building and corporate structure organization, has lost its bearings. The latest seeker-friendly models produce numbers and good feelings, but nothing substantial and lasting. There is no power or life there, just show. I too have been hurt and disillusioned by church after church, because of the failure of those in charge or those who think they are in charge. Either way, it isn't right, especially when you start looking at how the church functioned in the early years. More like a small-group than a formal church. It was a unique thing at the time -- no building or temple, no clergy, no ritual, just people living in community under the Lordship of Christ. That's what I want. That's what I'm looking for.

Posted By: found and lost | September 21, 2009 9:26 AM

For those who wonder "everyone has been hurt at church" I just want to remind you that not everyone's experiences are the same. While we all might hurt each other's feelings, there are times when its clear you are not wanted:

Take for example, when I was 5 years old and I finally told my mother what my father was doing to me when she wasn't at home. Did our pastor come to our rescue? Um, no, of course not. Because obviously my mother wasn't doing her wifely duties or I was lying (despite the medical evidence). WE had to find a new church. I doubt the other church members ever knew they had a pedophile in their midst. And yes, at 12 years old I got scared for a little girl in that church when my dad said something about how cute she was.....

Or how about the time when I was in college and had no car and asked the church I was wanting to attend if I could be picked up via the church bus -only later to find out from the bus driver's wife that "it was a terrible imposition I had placed on her husband to asked to be picked up for church" He was the bus driver. I was in shock and for the first time (and last time) knew that "punched in the gut feeling" was not cliche.

Or how about recently when I was carless and when my sister-in-law died I requested prayer on behalf of my family and some brilliant man replied all saying "Pray for Leslie that she'll be faithful to the church" I was stunned and shocked. Especially since I lived twenty miles from the church and no one had offered to give me a ride. I really wanted to know how I was supposed to have gotten to the church? (And before anyone says "Why didn't you ASK - this was when gas was $4 a gallon and most people lived in the opposite direction of the church - it would have been a HUGE sacrifice for someone to have offered - even with me giving gas money - and I knew that if I asked they would have been "required" to help - and I'd already seen one person's attitude about helping someone in the same way in the past from the same church, and I really didn't want to be the brunt of such resentment)

Thankfully God has led me to a wonderful fellowship - its a smaller congregation - around 20 or 30 adults - and in a denomination that more and more people are being attracted to - Messianic Judiasim. More and more people are growing closer to God as they study the whole of the Bible and not just the New Testament.

Posted By: Leslie | September 21, 2009 5:48 PM

It can be hard finding a good church...I keep finding that churches that I've tried to attend are either far too accepting of moral depravity or far too accepting of behavior that condemns both the sin AND the sinner. Neither of which is an act of love. I, unfortunately, have been a party to both and a victim as well. But I do feel that even though the church may have its share of hypocrites, I cannot change them, and so it is my responsibility to try not to be a hypocrite myself--and if I say I am a Christian and do not follow the Bible when it says not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together then I am a hypocrite. Hurting people need the healing of Christ. And hurting people also hurt people. Pain is inevitable--but we must strive to be a force for good in these hospitals called church--to not only acknowledge our pain but to acknowledge how we have hurt others so we, too, can change. I still need to find a church home myself (a place that is both doctrinally sound and gently loving)and would greatly appreciate the prayers of those reading this article concerning this matter. Thank you for writing this Alicia and thank you for your honesty.

Posted By: Yvonne | September 28, 2009 9:53 PM

I want to agree with Leslie. Not all people's experiences in church are the same. It is quite clear in a church when you're not wanted there. The first time when they shun you out of something, you can still just look it over, even the second, third or fourth time. But when it keeps on going on, when leadership does not support you anymore, now that's something else. Yes, our eyes should be on Jesus and not on people, but when it comes to the point where you can not serve with joy in a church anymore, then one is loaded with guilt and condemnation. There is not supposed to be any condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, but people place condemnation on you when they make you believe that this particular church is your covering and when you leave, you go out from under the covering.
Isn't Christ supposed to be our covering?
And when you don't agree with them, you are always wrong, never them. I may sound like a bitter person, but it's built up over quite some time.
Churches are the greatest discouragement for unbelievers, for they just drive them away. With double standards and judgment within denominational churches, where will people find a "family"? We are led to believe that our particular church is a safe place, but it's the place where I feel most insecure and unsafe. Our "family" church has failed to be a family and it really saddens me, because there was a time when I was really happy in this church and I felt like I was part of a family.
Going to church is not the only way to have fellowship with the brethren. There are many other ways. I do not say that going to church is the wrong thing to do, because I have received many great teachings in churched. I got saved, baptized and schooled in church.
I currently attend our church every Sunday because I feel it's God's will, but I am begging Him to release me, because it feels like I am in a cage.
I love God with all my heart and to seek and do His will is first priority in my life.
But currently I feel that my spirit is tainted and my soul, contaminated.

Posted By: Marix | October 26, 2009 9:41 AM