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January 15, 2010Where Was God in the Earthquake?
A theological response to the Haitian calamity from Fleming Rutledge.
At the time of the tsunami in the Indian Ocean, David Bentley Hart, the Eastern Orthodox theologian, wrote a column in The Wall Street Journal that attracted wide attention. Bill Eerdmans, of Eerdmans Publishing, contacted Hart and asked him to expand the column into a book. Hart did so, and the resulting The Doors of the Sea: Where Was God in the Tsunami? is the most useful short treatment of the problem of evil and suffering that we have.
A tweet I saw this morning reminded me of Hart's book. The tweet said, "Why don't we have earthquakes on Park Avenue? The people of Haiti are so poor."
Why, indeed?
A frequent response heard from Christians is, "God has some purpose in this." "Something good will come out of this." "Haiti will become stronger as a result of this."
In one sense, all these things are true; however, these are deeply wrong responses, both theologically and pastorally. In a long chapter on the problem of evil that I wrote last year for my forthcoming book on the Crucifixion, I reflected long and hard on these matters. Glib, monochromatic responses to catastrophe should have no place in our faith.
It is important to maintain two contradictory attitudes at once in many areas of Christian theology, and this is one of those areas. These are the two clashing points of view in this case:
Point of view #1: The Creation does declare the glory of God, and the "Thunderstorm Psalm" (Ps. 29: "The Lord breaks the cedars of Lebanon . . .") proclaims that message magnificently. God is not only the Creator but also the One who rules over the cosmos. The theophany (a manifestation of the power of God) in the Book of Job (chs. 38-41) is the preeminent biblical passage treating of this subject, and the phrase "the doors of the sea" is derived from 38:8.
Many people have experienced a sort of theophany even in the midst of destruction; people have testified to this even when they have had to face the dire consequences of a natural catastrophe (there are examples of this in Isaac's Storm, the book about the hurricane that destroyed Galveston, and in David McCullough's account of the Johnstown Flood). So the wild, untamed aspect of nature can be either comforting or exhilarating or both, depending on one's point of view.
Point of view #2: At the same time, nature is not benign. Nature is "red in tooth and claw." Nature, like the human race, is fallen and is subject to the powers of the Evil One who continues to occupy this sphere. Flannery O'Connor wrote that her work was about the action of grace in territory held largely by the Devil; we should not fail to realize that "nature" is part of that occupied territory. Nature is often hostile, as Annie Dillard has so powerfully shown us, and the nature-worshipers among us fail to acknowledge this hostility in their pantheistic enthusiasm. Only by action of the Creator will the peaceable kingdom arrive, where the lion lies down with the lamb. (Isn't it suggestive that "Lion of Judah" and "Lamb of God" are both titles of our Lord?)
The conflict between these two realities cannot be resolved in this life. Does the Creator of all that is have the power to say to those tectonic plates, "Be still!" Of course. Then why doesn't he? Why does he permit earthquakes in the poorest country in the hemisphere?
We do not know.
Saying "there is a reason for everything" may be true, but that is a cruel and heartless response at the point of great suffering. The most pastoral response, as well as the most truthful theological response, is to live in the contradiction.
Several years ago, in Piedmont, Alabama, a tornado came through the town on Palm Sunday and crushed a United Methodist church, killing the pastor's daughter. The pastor said, "I don't think this is a time for asking 'why?' We just have to help each other through this."
There are many ways to give money for relief in Haiti. (We are sending ours to Episcopal Relief and Development.) All Christians need to pray and be mindful of the terrible sorrow and need. And we can read accounts of the disaster and take the details of the suffering to heart. Here is one such account, from a statement posted online at The New York Times:
Words cannot begin to describe the devastation that has taken place in Port au Prince, Haiti.I am the Director of Disaster Services for The Salvation Army in Haiti, and I am from the United States. My wife and I have been in [Port-au-Prince] since April, and have fallen deeply in love with the country and its people.
When the earthquake struck, I was driving down the mountain from Petionville. Our truck was being tossed to and fro like a toy, and when it stopped, I looked out the windows to see buildings “pancaking” down, like I have never witnessed before. Traffic, of course, came to a stand-still, while thousands of people poured out into the streets, crying, carrying bloody bodies, looking for anyone who could help them. We piled as many bodies into the back of our truck, and took them down the hill with us, hoping to find medical attention. All of them were older, scared, bleeding, and terrified. It took about 2 hours to go less than 1 mile. Traffic was horrible, devastation was everywhere, and suffering humanity was front and center.
When we could drive no further, we left the truck parked on the side of the street, and walked the remaining 2 miles to get back to the Army compound. What I found was very sad! All of the security walls were down. The Children’s Home itself seems pretty intact, but our quarters, which is attached, are destroyed. Unlivable. The walls and ceiling are still standing — but so badly compromised that I wouldn’t even think of trying to stay there. All of the children, and hundreds of neighbors, are sleeping in our playground area tonight. Occasionally, there is another tremor — another reminder that we are not yet finished with this calamity. And when it comes, all of the people cry out and the children are terrified.
As I am sitting outside now, with most people trying to get a little sleep, I can hear the moans and cries of the neighbors. One of our staff went to a home in the neighborhood, to try to be of assistance to the woman who lived there. But she was too late.
The scene will be repeated over and over again.
Fleming Rutledge, having spent 22 years in parish ministry, now has an international preaching vocation. Her most recent book is Not Ashamed of the Gospel: Sermons from Paul's Letters to the Romans. This post originally appeared on Rutledge's blog.



Comments
"Saying "there is a reason for everything" may be true, but that is a cruel and heartless response at the point of great suffering." Not necessarily. It depends upon what's in the person's heart who says it, what they mean by it, and what they say and do after saying it. For example, if someone said in a cavalier tone of voice, "There is a reason for everything. Now, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
..." Well, that would be tacky - to say the least!
Posted By: Dan | January 15, 2010 10:49 AM
I think the comment about "there is a reason..." stating it is cruel and heartless is valid. The condition of the heart when it is being said is only one perspective. We must ensure that the feelings of others are not trampled on by the glibbness of what we say. I hear over and over, the woundedness of someone after the careless words of others. If we are Christians, we must be loving first and not so narcissistic as to assume our good intentions are sufficient. How about using our words wisely instead of running the risk of causing pain to someone already in pain?
Posted By: Tracy | January 15, 2010 11:31 AM
The title "Where was God in the Earthquake" begs us pause and consider the sovereignty and love and sympathy of God - not to question it. I think of Elie Wiesel's WWII account of an execution in a Nazi concentration camp. He among others were forced spectators witnessing the grisley hanging of a little Jewish boy, "...he heard...a man ask, “Where is God now?” Wiesel wrote, “And I heard a voice within me answer him: “Where is He? Here He is—He is hanging here on this gallows.” So we too may ask "Where is God now?" But unlike Weisel, whose answer admits a loss of faith, our answer is a proclamation of God's presence in the midst of a natural evil beyond remedy. Where is God now? Beyond question, in Haiti.
Posted By: Dan | January 15, 2010 11:40 AM
You ask the question, where was God in the earthquake, and I answer, the same place He was in the Nazi concentration camps - He was in heaven weeping for the human race. He is there in Haiti, comforting the people through those who are trying to help them. We don't need to spend needless energy on asking why. We need to interceed for them, that they will be helped - and they are by hundreds of Christians who have been placed their through relief organizations and thousands of us here sending money, food and help. Thank you for the perspective.
Posted By: Kathy Benton | January 15, 2010 5:39 PM
The comment "there is a reason for everything" isn't necessarily evil, but it's distant; removed from the situation. And as christians, that is not what our response should be. As christians, we are called to be the hands and feet of Christ. So when we ask "Where is God in the earthquake?" what we should really be asking is "where are we in the earthquake?" Are we merely sitting on the sidelines coming up with theological excuses for how and why something like this could happen? Or are we in the midst of it, donating money, clothes, time, prayers, or whatever we can to help? Are we watching everyone suffer, or are we there with them (physically or spiritually), sharing their grief and their discomfort and, through that unity, showing them that Christ is indeed present.
Posted By: Morgan | January 15, 2010 6:15 PM
??
Where was God?
In Heaven.
Where He has always and will always be! However Heaven itself cannot contain him, so Heaven is where God is. God is Good and Just, but not Fair. Not in the sense we understand Fairness. That is why the Earthquake did not happen on Park Avenue.
However when His Kingdom is finally Establish, it will be a Kingdom of True Fairness, His Fairness however; not ours.
??
Posted By: Salero21 | January 15, 2010 7:28 PM
Sure there IS a reason for everything, either nothing makes sense or everything makes sense, it cannot be both. God is everywhere. But the Lord is a jealous God, so let us put nothing before Him. To achieve this we must abandon the obsession with worldly things.
Posted By: J. Heart | January 16, 2010 1:03 AM
Having just read The End Of Poverty by Jeffrey Sachs and engaged in a discussion of it at church Monday before the earthquake, I found it very pertinent to the current situation in Haiti and would recommend this book to others in our rich country. I was struck by the timeliness of Jesus' parable in Luke 19:16-31 about the rich man and Lazarus. It doesn't take much imagination to expand it to the present proximity of our two countries. Hopefully, we will heed the wakeup call to repentance on our part and avoid condemning Haiti.
Posted By: A Ford | January 16, 2010 5:49 AM
A note to correct the preceding Bible reference to Luke 16:19-31. Please pardon my dyslexia.
Posted By: A Ford | January 16, 2010 5:59 AM
Where was God?
Exactly the same place he was when his Son died on the cross.
Posted By: Dennis Brostrom | January 16, 2010 9:52 AM
Where is God? God is indeed here, there in Haiti, everywhere. HE needs us to act as HIS hands, his heart, his compassion. WHY? Why indeed. Maybe to tell us what we haven't heard through other means, His word, His example His teachings. We need to be more loving, more respectful of other's needs, more responding to those needs, less selfish and more given.
Posted By: Pina | January 16, 2010 10:24 AM
Most catastrophic events like the one in Haiti don't come with a detailed commentary as to why they happened and then with a future assessment as to what good (or evil) will come in the wake of it. We can only guess. Haiti may rebuild but may still wallow in poverty because the heart of the issue politically has not been addressed. The best course of action not to take is be like Job's friends who sat by his side and endlessly speculated as to the reason for his suffering.
Posted By: Basil | January 16, 2010 12:42 PM
Fleming Rutledge is a breath of fresh air. What a thoughtful, compassionate approach! Love the fact that she's a female Episcopalian priest, too.
For those who are so quick to condemn anyone who questions or temporarily loses their faith in the face of utter evil or disaster: Please note that even Jesus questioned God, asking that the cup be taken from him. God invites us to "come, let us reason together." He doesn't condemn questioning. He does, though, condemn the simplistic, soul-less, moral superiority of those whose need to make a theological point outweighs the commandment that we love our neighbors as ourselves.
The Bible teaches that there is a time and place for everything. Surely, Rutledge is correct that the time and place for saying "there's a reason for everything" is NOT right at the point of the suffering. (Although, I guess Pat Robertson is still out looking for that particular clue.)
Posted By: Christian Lawyer | January 16, 2010 4:11 PM
To ask such a question is foolish and unanswerable!
One could ask where was He in countless other disasters
on this planet Earth? It is usually Christians-of some note-
who come up with answers equally as ridiculous as the question.Chance or Purpose? How can any human mind put
such a question and even attempt to come up with an answer!!
All is meaningless? For myself, in my life's experiences,
regardless of all the pain,unjust things that fall upon me,
and the horrific disasters that has visited our earthly abode, has my helplessness, uncertainty and often abject
terror and despair in the face of the cruelties of this
world, and a supposed Christian Church who prosecuted me
for allegedly stealing a book from their Church library, when my wife and child needed prayer,love and support!!!
No! none of these things, however tragic the view can ever
remove my faith in God.
Posted By: Jaffray Geddes | January 17, 2010 12:52 AM
The matter of what not to say in the midst of another's suffering is illustrated in an incident I heard about recently.
The mother of a 9-year-old girl was killed in an automobile accident. Well-meaning friends and relatives tried to comfort the child with comments like, "Your mother was such a wonderful person, God wanted her with him in heaven" or "God needed another angel with him in heaven."
Days later, instead of showing signs of recovering from the shock, the child seemed even more distraught. When asked what was making her so sad, she replied, "My daddy is a wonderful person just like my mama. I'm scared God is going to make him go to heaven too."
Our finite minds can't understand why unspeakably awful things happen to innocent people. Better to do as Fleming Rutledge suggests and admit that we don't know but make ourselves available to "live in the contradiction" with the suffering person in whatever way seems best. Offering up platitudes can actually be more harmful than helpful, as the example above illustrates.
Posted By: lizbeth | January 17, 2010 2:23 PM
I agree with Fleming Rutledge, glib judgments about others problems is endemic within the Church. It can take many years for the Believer to come to realise the Lord’s Hand in their lives. I wonder how long Joseph took to come to the place where he could say to his brothers when they met, ‘You meant it for evil but God meant it for good’. Perhaps it was only just before they arrived. Consider that Job himself was never told the reason for his disasters. May we who cannot go out to Haiti should not only pray for the country and give generously, could we not contemplate ways and means of breaking the aid dependency cycle? Anyone got any ideas how to replant the island for starters
Posted By: Ed (UK) | January 17, 2010 2:46 PM
Without meaning to sound glib or heartless, the question "Where was God in the earthquake?" made me think of the story of Elijah in I Kings 19, where God was not in the strong wind or the earthquake or the fire, but in the still small voice.
Posted By: rhb | January 17, 2010 3:32 PM
The best way to help the people of Haiti is to help them move to other countries. The future for them will be far, far worse than what happened in the earthquake. For Example the salt water in the Pacific Islands is spreading over their food crops, killing their fruit trees. Australia and New Zealand need to train them in jobs so they have a future in these countries.
Posted By: Acushla | January 17, 2010 6:04 PM
A week before the Haitian earthquake a slightly less powerful quake struck a well populated area of NW California. The result? Hundreds of thousands of $$ in property damage but not even one life lost. The massive and heartbreaking suffering and loss of life in Haiti is due to the greed and callousness of sinful men who build inferior structures, and government officials who turn a blind eye because they exist only to enrich themselves. Once again man has the temerity to ask 'Where was God?' when he has only to look at his own sinful choices.
Posted By: mb oregon | January 18, 2010 4:00 PM
"Does the Creator of all that is have the power to say to those tectonic plates, 'Be still!' Of course. Then why doesn't he? Why does he permit earthquakes in the poorest country in the hemisphere? We do not know."
So, if a person asks, 'Why does God allow suffering?', they can't ask you, because you don't know! Funny, since the Bible explains why!
(1) Satan the Devil is "misleading" the entire inhabited earth. (Revelation 12:9, 12) He has temporarily been granted "all authority" over all human governments. (Luke 4:5, 6) Jesus said there would be "great earthquakes" in the last days which began in 1914. (Luke 21:10, 11) He said it was a sign that the "kingdom of God is near." (Luke 21:31) This kingdom is a global government that was set up in 1914. (Daniel 2:44) It will replace all human governments so that there will be just one government for all people.
It is not the United Nations organization, since God's government is located in heaven and is no part of this world. (John 18:36)
(2) God allows suffering because of the Devil's challenges to God's sovereignty and human integrity. (Job 1:6-12; 2:1-7) Also, God is committed to his purpose for the earth that was affected by Adam and Eve's rebellion. (Genesis 1:28; 2:15; Isaiah 55:11) If God had destroyed Adam and Eve immediately, then no humans would have suffered because they would never have been born! But its not fair that Adam's children should pay for what Adam did, is it? So, God purposed for a solution. (Genesis 3:15; Galatians 3:16, 29)
A child may suffer because it doesn't listen to his Father and falls off his bike. So, the Father provides comfort by taking the child to the hospital to see a doctor. The doctor is Jesus Christ, the hospital is the true Christian congregation and the prescription is found in the Bible. (Matthew chapters 5 to 7; John 3:16) Of course, the child may experience more pain in hospital but the Father knows this will make him better. (Revelation 21:1-5) If the child doesn't want to follow the prescription, of course, then it won't recover. But, whose fault is that? Not the Father's since everyone has freedom of choice.
Those who are willing to accept the prescription and follow it will recover from sin and imperfection. Those who don't are not choosing life. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) God will allow this rebellion only once for all time to set a precedent for anyone who contemplates this action again. (Isaiah 65:17, 18; Nahum 1:9; Ephesians 1:8-10)
Any questions: pnbkkbhk@hotmail.com
Posted By: Paul | January 19, 2010 3:21 AM
"It is important to maintain two contradictory attitudes at once in many areas of Christian theology, and this is one of those areas. These are the two clashing points of view in this case"
They are not contradictory "attitudes" they are contradictory claims. I was a passionate believer until I realized this.
Haiti Earthquake Why did God allow it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-5tHKrC0-s
Posted By: cwieand | January 19, 2010 10:56 PM
With great respect to Flemming Rutledge, perhaps the question should be changed to "Where was I". I lived in Haiti for thirteen years, but now reside in Honduras. On the evening of January 12, I was with my wife in Winnepeg, visiting our son. We have friends and collegues who are now part of the relief effort. I am back home in Honduras, seeing Haiti as the Samaritan on the road. The question before me is, "Will I be one of those who gives the wounded person a wide berth, or will I be like the person who stopped and met the needs of that person?". We like to give God the responsibility for both good and evil, but fail to remember, that we, as Christians, are part of the universal body of Christ. As members of that body, we are compelled to be there with the wounded and the suffering. We are compelled to grieve with the families who have lost loved ones. We are compelled to give solace to those who are without hope. In the days, months and years to come, will we stand with Haiti, or will we give Haiti a wide berth?
Posted By: Caspar Geisterfer | January 20, 2010 6:11 PM
It certainly took the author a lot of words to expand on the answer "I do not know", which is the right answer. I also think the ultimate theological answer is that everything happens to the glory of God. The difficulty is to provide the pastoral response. But as ministers, we need to be mindful that we do not try to override God, but to minister in His name. Perhaps God is reminding us that of all of the technological advances, we still do not understand how the created universe works, let alone trying to control it or change it.
Posted By: Joe | January 21, 2010 3:11 PM
Does the Creator of all that is have the power to say to those tectonic plates, "Be still!" Of course. Then why doesn't he? Why does he permit earthquakes in the poorest country in the hemisphere?
We do not know.
But anyone who reads Paul's words in Romans 8:19-21 does know: when mankind fell, all creation fell with him; when we are finally redeemed, all creation will be reborn along with us.
Posted By: ConnecticutYankee | January 23, 2010 12:08 PM
This is an excellent, thoughtful article. However the Apostle Paul did say, "All things work together for the good for those who love God and who are called according to His purpose" (Romans 8: 28). This was said in the context of great suffering and persecution which Paul himself endured.
Posted By: JMV | January 24, 2010 10:24 PM
One BIG mistake we all tend to make when questioning God in response to natural disasters and evil is that we mostly examine these from the perspective of the immediate impacts in the here and now, ON EARTH. We always need to remember that THIS reality is not the one in which God is MOST concerned with, that He is ultimately concerned upon our eternal spiritual destinations. Those who He foreknows will eternally reject him are as good as dead today, as they will be if they live to be 100 and die in rebellion. And certainly, He uses such calamities to draw many who otherwise would not have come to Him. Such disasters help us to refocus on things God finds TRULY important, while also drawing us all closer together in sharing grief, pain, mercy and love. While these are just partial things to consider, in the face of disaster, they are clues to God's perspective.
Posted By: Philip | January 25, 2010 9:25 AM
Good grief. I think it is a mistake to theologise about this matter. Earthquakes like floods, volcanoes, hurricanes, rainfall, snow, sunny weather, or wind are simply natural phenomena. Aren't natural penomena part of Gods creation. Earthquakes also happen to be very hazardous because they still remain unpredictable, and we live in houses and buildings which are not flexible. There wouldn't be a disaster if we lived in tepees or tents or simple flexible structures. The solution is simply - either spend a lot of money and build earthquake proof buildings or move away from there. Haiti now has a chance to relocate their main city somewhere else - safer. If they are responsible they will do so and we can help them.
Istanbul is a very large city sitting right one top of a very major fault which has been failing progressively westward. Sooner or later a large earthquake will hit that city and probably level it (probably within 30 or 40 years). What are the people doing about it - nothing. Yet we know it is going to happen. No point in complaining to God when it does happen. Our little planet is very active in its interior and the crust is constantly on the move.
If people build cities along plate boundaries then sooner or later earthquakes will occur and level the city. Back when Port au Prince got started the folks then didn't really understand earthquakes and what caused then so the city just kept growing. The problem isn't God it's us. WE build in hazardous areas. Then when the disaster strikes we just rebuild in the same stupid location again. Its like building your house on a floodplain (now illegal). Its not Gods problem its ours.
Posted By: john | January 27, 2010 11:14 AM
The point of this discussion is that we all do theology, but the underlying question is whether or not it is good theology, which is so critical to making a right response in a time of crisis. Pastorally I would have to say that an inordinate percentage of my time is spent assisting people to undo bad theology that they have constructed for themselves, or absorbed from others, or most tragically of all, had foisted on them during a season of troubles.
Whether we like it or not, we will all one day have to wrestle with theodicy due to our own suffering, so in the meantime it is healthy to wrestle with the concepts theoretically. We also need to be able to bear with others who are suffering, rather than inflicting on them our disturbed questions regarding pain.
I cannot help but notice that suffering, even from natural disasters, tends to disproportionately impact the poor and vulnerable, especially women without menfolk, children and the elderly. It was true of the tsunamis and Haiti is no exception to the rule. I am mindful of how frequently Scripture commends these same groups to our care.
Sitting in my comfortable house, with ample food, running water, and available health care, living in safety, it is tempting to turn away from the immense tragedy of Haiti for my own peace of mind. It is scandalously easy for me to view this theoretically from the other side of the world and to forget that each one of the people who made up the death toll, and each of those presently begging for help, is known by name by God, and loved by him.
God have mercy on the people of Haiti. God have mercy on us all.
Posted By: Kerry | January 29, 2010 6:06 PM
I beg to differ with Fleming.
In the Book of Job, the most painful, awful, example of suffering is brought to us by God Himself. If we stopped to ask, why, and if we were honest, we would be forced to answer that it was done both to teach Job and us about the glory of God and about the sovereignty of God.
In the New Testament, Jesus teaches the apostles that sometimes bad things happened because of sin and sometimes they happen for the glory of God. God is not fearful to make these statements; thus, why should we be fearful about answering the question of suffering with these same statements?
Are they indeed heartless as the author of the blog states? I believe that answering the question is heartless, only if one subscribes to the bible of the politically correct. I refuse to make excuses for God. I refuse to sit on the fence out of fear of the world. The Bible of God must speak for itself. I will not apologize for it, nor will I try to justify it. The fact of the matter is that God was speaking to the Haitians and God was speaking to the rest of the world. Another fact remains, and that is that the other half of the island remained unharmed. God could have stopped the earthquake or protected the Haitians from harm and He didn’t. Yet He did protect the other side of the island.
Two reasons can be taken from the pages of the Bible. The first is that God allowed it because of sin. The second is that God allowed it for the glory of God. In any case, God is sovereign. The Holy Spirit of God will use this event to teach each individual who questions Him. And those who have indeed sinned, and God is convicting, they will know it. But, the lessons are twofold. The one mentioned above, for the individual; that is personal between God and that individual. The other is a corporate message; a corporate message meant for the people of God. Those who hear God will know that God does not fool around with sin. He is both a just God and a merciful God. He is just to punish those that turn away from Him, and He is merciful to those that call out to Him.
There are a few things we can know for sure. He only speaks to those who listen to Him, and He only chastises those that He loves. If God was chastising the Haitians for a supposed pact with the devil, then it is only because He loves them. Who are we to take that away from God or the Haitians because we think in our small minds that it is “cruel and heartless?” Are we the judge of God now?
Whenever something painful happens in my life the first thing I do is evaluate what God is saying to me. For someone to come into my life and tell me that there is no answer destroys my significance. I would think that they were being cruel and heartless. If there is no point to suffering, then why should I have to suffer? If God doesn’t use suffering to teach me, and/or others around, then there is no good reason to suffer. After all, Christ suffered all that was necessary for salvation and an eternity with God. So don’t steal my importance by saying, “We do not know.” Great suffering requires the presence of God. Taking away answers destroys the possibility for those suffering to reach out to God. We as humans need to know. We need to feel important to God. We need to know that He loves us. We need to know why, in this love, He would let us suffer so greatly.
Therefore, the most compassionate, the most pastoral, and the most truthful theological response is God’s response. Not some politically correct willy-nilly, silly, weak-kneed, on the fence, lacking conviction response that states, “We do not know.”
Posted By: R.A. Holloway | January 30, 2010 4:39 PM
RA Holloway, the question of suffering has plagued scholars for thousands of years and the great majority have concluded, as Fleming has that : "we just don't know". Please be careful about presuming to speak for God.
Posted By: Kerry | January 30, 2010 5:26 PM
I don't understand why there is so much confusion over the origins of natural disasters. The Bible is quite clear about it. God created the earth perfect, no earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, etc. There was no death. That was the garden. After Adam and Eve sinned and God cast them from the garden, he cursed the earth, making it difficult for mankind to grow food. Then he judged mankind with the flood, which changed the topography of the earth dramatically and brought about the shifting of the tectonic plates.
What is the purpose of God's judgments? As with those judgments of Israel in the OT, God judges nations and people for their rebellion against him. But the judgment is only partial (complete judgment will happen in the Great White Throne of Judgment) and intented to motivate people to end their rebellion. That doesn't mean that God determined that Hatians are greater sinners than everyone else and deserve this round of earthquakes. God's judgment was general, against all of a rebellious mankind. Sometimes the judgment falls on one group, sometimes on another. But the main purpose is to rescue us from a far worse fate, final judgment at the Great White Throne.
So why do Christians have to suffer from the same judgment as non-Christians? Because God didn't want "rice" Christians, that is, people who follow him just for the material benefits. He wants people who freely choose him because of who he is. And as Paul and Peter remind us, God uses suffering to teach Christians about himself and his grace.
What should we learn from the Haiti earthquake? Sin is terrible in God's eyes, so terrible that he will allow such horrible tragedies in hopes of persuading some to repent. The heart of mankind is very hard and wicked if things like earthquakes won't cause men to repent. Also, the final judgment is far worse that mere death from an earthquake.
Posted By: fundamentalist | February 2, 2010 2:42 PM
Bravo Pina. The consequences of living in a sin—corrupted natural world are best met with sympathy, empathy & compassion.
Posted By: Byron Sherman | February 2, 2010 3:53 PM
It's very hard to believe, but yes - an all powerful inclusive loving God was there!
However, for Religion to explain this, it has to Take on board the truth of evidenced based information from both science and Historical research!
Can it be explained? Those seeking truth have found several answers, but the most plausible one for me is:
If God wishes to populate his wonderful Universe, then it has to be with free thinking spirits that have a track record of having chosen to live responsible caring lives, then the creation process involves the very complicated one of evolution – otherwise one gets some form of hell.
Unfortunately, the only kind of evolution that can generate “intelligent free-thinking beings” is driven by catastrophic necessity which in turn generates a high enough level of inventing that eventually triggers not only intelligence, but free will – the freedom to choose.
One can see today that where catastrophes have not occurred for thousands of years - man is still in a stone-age like existence. Also today, one can see cultures degenerating - where life has been too good for too many for too long - new generations think the world owes them a living, there is no incentive to work, let alone invent or create. High levels of boredom, over-indulgence and inability to work constructively with others quickly develop. Some even choose a life of Benefit-depency, by having children with no personal means to support them! Others just get lost on drugs.
To interfere in any one catastrophe means that God would need to interfere in all of them and the evolution process would not deliver.
It is our job to show God's love and help in these situations.
It should be the mission of religion to help us understand and by proclaiming that part of God's love for us is a place, in heaven - should we choose to accept his love and love in return by sharing His love with others – especially those in need. In many ways this leads to a way of life lived by many non-religious folk who may well work in education, medicine or care.
So, importantly, the inclusive key to heaven is not to be found in the multitude of different exclusive faiths - all proclaiming different routes to heaven – but in the very route faith on which they are all based!
Some can understand that there might be an all powerful intelligent force that caused the Universe to be, but cannot understand how that force, known by many names, can be everywhere and able to communicate with us all at the same time.
However, it may be helpful to note that even Man has created an entity that can communicate with millions of people across the world in what appears to be in real time - it is called the WWW and is based on intelligent multiplexers. As new faster processors come on line the Web gets more powerful and provides even more services to more people, but it still needs a minute finite time to do anything.
Meanwhile God is not tethered in any way by time - in human terms he can be everywhere in the Universe at the SAME time - demonstrating the vast difference between a very large number and infinity.
Some claim that the paranormal has been disproved by Science, but one only has to conduct a national survey to find a massive population of folk – far too large to be statistically ignored - who have gained information that someone has died in circumstances that cannot be possibly explained by Science - so that premise and the claims based on it are not sound.
Some claim that Western Science is expanding exponentially and consequently it will soon know all the truth there is to know and perhaps there will be no need for a belief in any God! - However, it has not expanded much on explaining how gravity is generated, water expands anomalously, why electromagnetic energy parcels travel through atom-less space at the speed it does for billions of years! Many advances in science still go on to show us how very very little we actually know and how much more we have to learn! If we are not positioned to know how much undiscovered truth lies out there then exponential improvement in some areas cannot be relied on to position science as the source of all knowledge.
Hopefully parts of this will be of help to some in finding answers to very difficult questions.
So let us urge Religions to refocus on their central Mission of helping folk achieve their full potential and letting us know God's “Good News” for us. Important as our life here is, it is only a stepping stone to much greater things – unless we just throw this most precious gift away – and far too many are. Hopefully those caught up and killed in these national tragedies are now enjoying a very much better life now in heaven.
Otherwise, how can Religion possibly effectively proclain a loving inclusive God – when it cannot see and absorb the truth of evidenced based information and is itself fractured into many exclusive and warring Faiths and Denomonations?
There's little hope that Religion will be credible to main-stream society - until it becomes truly inclusive and it can work in complete harmony with other Agencies, like Scientific and Historical research, that are actively searching for the truth.
This negative religious behaviour does not help folk to understand the credibility of God and threatens their God given heritage! This could be unforgivable!
Posted By: Rhys Goodwin | August 4, 2010 8:04 AM