Hermenuetics

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I am eager to read my single sisters' responses. I have this friend, an amazing guy, servant of Christ, sweet, funny, charming, well-educated, gainfully employed, just turned 41....and single. And looking. And not slender.

Some fine woman is missing out, and I suspect it has something to do with his perceived level of "cuteness."

Posted By: Sheila | August 3, 2010 2:06 PM

Hey, what can I say, Sheila, I hope he finds someone good. Me, I've got a lot of great qualities, but I'm very ordinary looking and not slim. I've resigned myself to not remarrying. (I was widowed ten years ago.) Wish that looks didn't mean all that much, but we all know that they always have and always will.

Posted By: Darcyjo | August 3, 2010 2:53 PM

Anna Broadway wrote: "they reminded me that a date was not a pledge of betrothal, but could sometimes even be fun".

LOL. Miss Broadway forgot that she is supposed to have "kissed dating goodbye". :)

Regardling physical attractiveness, in the Bible God clearly tells us that "man looks at the outward appearance" (1 Samuel 15:7). So why would Christians somehow think differently? Of course God looks at the heart instead, but is anyone God except for God Himself?

And as the examples of Sheila's friend and Darcyjo show, shallowness is not just a problem for "man", but also for Christian women. Until these gentlemen start to grow their hair long and play in a church rock band, they might as well start to plan for lifelong bachelorhood. "Servant of Christ, sweet, funny, charming, well-educated, gainfully employed" - none of these mean anything for today's single Chrsitian woman.

Posted By: Andrew | August 3, 2010 3:32 PM

Wow, the comments are pretty hard on Christian girls here. I know plenty of girls who have fallen for Christian guys who weren't traditionally good-looking (and didn't play in bands). And I think you could ask pretty much any Christian girl and she would say that character plays a major role in feeling that chemistry. But you just can't deny that a person's physical presence is also a factor. Seriously, guys, would you want a girl to marry you for your character and then just grit her teeth and bear the other stuff? Because you can't force yourself to feel something that you don't feel.

I agree with Anna: attraction has a healthy place in courtship.

Posted By: Leigh | August 3, 2010 4:57 PM

hmmmm...I recall a time in my life where I felt I was enrolled in the "blind date of the month club". It didn't lead to any marriage proposals, but did give me insight into what I did/didn't admire and want in a partner.
I did however soon after meet a wonderful man, whom I was really not into physically at first, but it was his heart and integrity that won me over, that and he knew how to court a girl...and those are the words he used too. He asked me a month after we met if he could "court" me. It was as if God handpicked him just for me, (which He did, incidentally) because I had been praying for a spouse who would pursue me and court me with intention. God does deliver on His promises and hears the prayers of his children.
I was 28 also, kind of late in the dating scene, and have known many well into their 40's that have found true love. Never give up praying and hoping, but do keep on living in the meantime, it may be just then that you meet that someone.
Yes, unfortunate that looks play a deep role, but God did design us with certain reactions and emotions. It seems that those who are too overly occupied with looks end up with a situation that quickly withers down the road when our looks head south, as they will, since wrinkles are inevitable.

Posted By: Anonymous | August 3, 2010 8:57 PM

When I was single (9 years ago), I had a policy that I would go on one date with just about anyone. What did I have to lose? A couple hours of my time during which I might actually *gasp* have fun.

I met the man I married through a blind date set up by... my mother. I guess she really does know me best. And, he wasn't then, nor is he now, "slim." He isn't a pastor, doesn't play in a rock band, and doesn't make a six-figure salary. But he is the most loving, kind, selfless man I have ever known. And I wouldn't trade him for 10 Brad Pitt look-alikes.

Posted By: Robyn | August 3, 2010 9:05 PM

Robyn, I wish more Christian women were like you.

Posted By: James | August 4, 2010 12:08 AM

Since when are Christian girls gaga over guys in rock bands?? Last I heard, that was not a plus factor. My sister left a guy BECAUSE he wouldn't give up his rock band dream. Buddy - you're 29 and you're little band is never going to make it big! Cut your hair, stop sulking, take a dose of reality and start thinking about a family and propose already.

Yeah...guys who think they're cool cause they're in a band...actually not so cool....So let's just stop that train before it accumulates any more misconceptions....

Yes I'm sure there are a lot of unattractive but genuinely great guys who go unnoticed, but I'm pretty sure that river runs both ways, so there's no need slam girls exclusively for it.

Posted By: Nadine | August 4, 2010 2:55 PM

I just wanted to add - being an extremely shy person myself, I kind of like the "card" idea. But it wouldn't have to be used based exclusively on looks - you could give a person a card because you had an interesting conversation with them, or there was something else about them that impressed you.

Of course, even giving a stranger a card would require a lot of boldness! Imagine seeing them throw it away a minute later when they thought you weren't looking! Talk about being crushed.

Posted By: Nadine | August 4, 2010 3:00 PM

Single non-believing women have one advantage over single Christian women: the former freely admit that they want in a man movie star looks, investment banker income, and community leadership status, while the latter want the same deep down inside but deny it and claim that they are looking for "character" or some other fad term in vogue within Christian circles at the moment. After a while non-believing women would come to terms with reality and re-assess their criteria and abandon that which are unrealistic or simply wrong. Christian women, however, have been poisoned by all that Christian talk about "waiting for God's perfect person for you" that they never realize that God's person for them are just human beings and never perfect. Only God is perfect. They continue to blame God for "not enough Christian men in church" while rejecting every Christian man who approaches them, expecting that God would send a chorus of angels to escort a glowing man in shiny white robes to marry them in front of some magical altar that appears in thin air.

Once, a sngle Christian woman was in a shipwreck. While keeping herself afloat, her fellow passengers in a lifeboat reached out their hands and said, "Come on up here! Get on this lifeboat so we can find shore". The Christian woman replied, "No, I'm going to wait for God to save me perfectly". So the lifeboat left. Then, a rescue ship arrived, lowered a line to the woman and told her, "hold on to this line, and we will bring you to safety". The woman replied, "No, I'm going to wait for God to save me perfectly". So the boat left. As night fell, a helicopter spotted the woman and lowered a ladder to her, saying, "climb on this ladder, and we will take you to land". But the woman still replied, "No, I'm going to wait for God to save me perfectly". The helicopter left. A little while later, the sea became very rough and the woman drowned. When she reached heaven, she asked God, "Lord, I waited for your perfect rescue. Why did I still die?" God answered, "I sent you a lifeboat, a rescue boat, and a helicopter. What more did you want?" Then the Almighty who made heaven and earth added, "And let's not get into the dysfunctional shipwreck that was your dating life."

Ladies (even though you often do not behave like one), stop looking for perfection using Christian-sounding excuses. What you see is what you get. Before you complain to God about the lack of perfect Christian men in your life, look at those whom you rejected. There, you will find the men whom God has been trying to bring into your life.

Posted By: John | August 4, 2010 3:10 PM

Loving the attitude, Robyn! There is absolutely NOTHING wrong in going out on a date. I've seen so many Christian women staying in their own circles, never expanding, never meeting new people, convinced that Mr Right will ride in on a white horse. And even if a wonderful guy does show up, the fact he's not on a white horse means he can't be the one.

Yes, lighten up. Have fun.

A friend of mine in her early 30s decided a couple of years ago to adopt that attitude. She figured at the very least she'd have an excuse to dress up a bit, get out of the house, enjoy the conversation and a meal/drink. She felt she was falling into the trap of only being at church/work/home with no reason to go anywhere or do anything else. She's had a ball. Not every guy she meets she clicks with; not every date has good converstaion. Some dates have led to a second or third, others have led to finding a new great friend to catch up with once in a while but nothing more. But who knows? Maybe those guys have friends, brothers, cousins, they might think will get on well with her.

Nothing wrong in getting out there, meeting people and giving guys a chance.

Posted By: KP | August 4, 2010 7:08 PM

fMs. Broadway emphasizes getting to know each other--and it seems that Christians often fail on this first step, whether because they are looking for perfection, or scared, or waiting for a lightning bolt.... I think she makes a good point that a more relaxed dating scene would help Christians become more comfortable with themselves, others, and the possibility of romance.

And by the way, men, it's not about perfection. However, mutual interest is important. I am sorry if you have ever been or felt rejected for not being good enough. But no one can make you feel inferior without your consent: go find the girl who does see how special you are.

Posted By: Esther | August 4, 2010 7:23 PM

Marriage, sex and dating advise from a virgin spinster?

Posted By: anne goldsmith | August 5, 2010 12:59 AM

I'm sorry if you've had a bitter experience, but generalizing doesn't help anybody. I rejected nobody before my husband came along, that's for sure! In fact he turned me down for a date first.

Posted By: @ John | August 5, 2010 8:58 AM

I think there are lots of Christian women who love their husbands and chose them because of their character rather than their looks or earning power. And husbands who chose their wives because of their character rather than their looks, too. I know many. I don't think MOST people are as shallow as some have suggested.

I think it must be more difficult for women (and men) who are shy. I never had a problem asking a young man to coffee and conversation, nor accepting when asked, but I know there are people for whom that would be difficult. It would be interesting to see what kinds of solutions could be found for those people to get to know others.

OTOH, I have two single acquaintances in their late 30's who are so picky that I don't think they'll ever get married. They want super-model millionaires. They are also very controlling and must have everything "just so." I'm not sure why anyone would want to marry someone like that anyway even if they were gorgeous, but I think those types of people are the minority. But maybe I am just naive.

Posted By: Robyn | August 5, 2010 11:54 AM

Wow, Andrew. I'm glad you're not bitter.

Posted By: muse | August 5, 2010 2:24 PM

One more thing. I had co-workers who got married a few years ago. Neither one of them carried that he was a "devout" Christian and she wasn't. What they cared about was that he was rich and she was beautiful.

Posted By: muse | August 5, 2010 2:27 PM

Yes, God looks on the heart, but I'll be looking my future husband in the eyes every night!

I have yet to meet a single man who can honestly say that looks don't play into his interest in a woman, so I'm mildly amused when I hear men complain about women having the same standards. Quite apart from issues of faith, character, lifestyle, career, family, etc., there's also the marriage bed to consider. Even St. Paul--a bachelor--had opinions on that. So, if we're not suppose to withhold ourselves from our spouse without mutual consent, it seems relatively obvious that there's wisdom in not ignoring physical attraction in the dating process. God created us as sexual beings after all! Let's not pretend we're more or less than we are.

Thanks for the reminder to not take dating (or courtship) too seriously. Marriage, as desirable a state as it is, is just one path to heaven. And from what I've seen, it's better to be lonely and single than lonely and married.

Posted By: Andrea | August 5, 2010 6:59 PM

All the comments from guys telling women they should not care about looks in a man and that there are all these "perfect" men out there who have everything except looks make me want to either laug or cry (or both). Seriously, why is it that men, no matter their looks, believe they are entitled to a gorgeous women and yet tell women they shouldn't care about looks?

Honestly, it makes me angry. You see movies all the time where an average looking guy ends up with a gorgeous women, but you never see the reverse. Yet these comments are making it out as if women are the only ones who ignore the less attractive members of the opposite gender. If anything, it is the reverse.

We all care about looks to a certain extent, both men and women. Both genders needs to learn to look beyond good looks and see more. And one can be physically attracted to someone who doesn't necessary meet society's standards of what an attractive person is.

Posted By: Anna | August 5, 2010 8:37 PM

Thanks, Anna, for the great article! Totally agree with your perspective on physical attraction and glad someone said it.

Yes, Christians should look beyond the surface when relating to others, but most relationships don't have a physical component. Marriage does. Physical attraction is necessary in order for both members of the couple to enjoy physical intimacy.

I want to add my voice to the chorus of women who are concerned about the attitudes of some men here. To the guys who are reprimanding women on this site: The day you ask out a girl YOU find unattractive is the day women will start taking your advice. In general, men are even more visually oriented than women, and lots of women who are overweight, plain, or otherwise unattractive by the world's standards get left on the shelf. I see it all the time, and, in fact, single women in churches nationwide outnumber single men three to one.

I hope we can stop blaming one sex or the other for this state of affairs and acknowledge that both men and women are allowed to want marriage partners who are physically attractive to them. That said, once the requirement of physical attraction is met, we could all stand to be more focused on godly characteristics in a potential partner rather than things like career success, flashy talents, and so on.

Posted By: TheLordIsMyShepherd | August 5, 2010 11:41 PM

It's been many years for me, married 35 years, but I remember struggling mightily with this issue, especially as a young girl growing up without a father.

My primary desire was for a solid man in my life. As a young Christian, many major life decisions were based upon whether I might find "him". Fortunately, I also realized that if I wanted a "great" man, I had some work to do on my self to become a "great" partner for that man.

I chose to involve myself in life in a big way, doing what was my passion, though I wanted above all to be married. I met my husband doing what was on my heart, which was serving international students.

I've met hundreds of couples all around the world, and been amazed at their stories of God's bringing them together in the most remote locations where they "happened" to be working or serving.

So, the lesson I've taken from this is to follow what God puts on your heart, keeping in mind that being married is simply a part of life, not the sum and substance of it.

The worst possible outcome would be receiving what you thought you wanted (husband) while missing out on becoming an interesting, whole human being.

Posted By: mary | August 6, 2010 8:02 AM

I don't think Christian women should excuse the desire to date (and marry) someone who not only matches up theologically, but also in the other aspects as well. Sure, looks shouldn't be the main factor. But if you're not attracted at all, forcing attraction just because the guy is amazing in every other way is not fair to either person in the long-run.

Posted By: thefirst46 | August 6, 2010 12:32 PM

Since when are all of the beautiful people in the world married and all of those who are less attractive single? There are plenty of good-looking single people to go around and plenty of not so good-looking people who have managed to find a spouse. And I'm sure it's not just because the single good-looking people are all horrible, mean, snooty people who can't come up from a mirror long enough to find someone to love them. And just as equally, I'm sure not all those who are less attractive are morally superior either.

Posted By: Christian | August 11, 2010 12:01 PM

Hmm...Andrew, we're "supposed to have kissed dating goodbye" simply because Joshua Harris said so? Forgive me, but I answer to the Father, not to Christian authors - who can sometimes be helpful but should never be perceived as infallible. If we lived that way, we'd all be entirely confused - they say so many different things! ;)

Sadly, I've known a few young couples who did the courtship thing, were never alone together until marriage, married the first person they ever became involved with - and today find themselves split up. I think dating can be a healthy way to see how you mesh with lots of different kinds of people, to see what you really want and don't want. I just think you have to be careful with it. If you're saving your first kiss until marriage, stick to that; if you feel like God doesn't want you dating anyone you couldn't see yourself marrying, don't; if you don't feel comfortable dating anyone you haven't known in a friendship capacity for a certain amount of time, then turn down blind dates and accept offers from guy friends who interest you.

Each must be fully convinced in his own mind. If you court, court carefully. If you date, date responsibly. And always be open to the Father's leading - with that attitude, you can't go wrong.

Posted By: Cattie | August 12, 2010 3:59 PM

Thank you to Anna and TheLordIsMyShepherd for your comments, very true I'm afriad. I'm 42 1/2 and still waiting for my first serious relationship, yes I'd like to get married but it seems that men don't want slim, intelligent and attractive (so I've been told) women. At least not here in the UK anyway!! I've had over 20 years of feeling frustrated and its very difficult to suppress the feelings especially when one has a high sex drive and no partner. Depression quickly sets in. Years of myself and friends praying hasnt helped either - except to more frustration!!!

Posted By: Cathy | August 12, 2010 6:58 PM

Cathy and Stillalone - same here. I am 39 and I have went on endless dates, without a checklist or a fantasy-man in mind. It is a struggle no matter how much you practice laws of attraction. Men are not "manning up" and asking us out! BE CONFIDENT, make yourselves available and go to places of like-kind. Not just church but if you like boating, do where Boaters are. Golf? Go where golfers go! I am certain, good man will show up for us eventually. IN the meantime, keep the faith!

Posted By: PBeach | September 4, 2010 10:00 PM

Cathy - I couldn't agree more. When you're slim and attractive, everyone assumes it's your own fault that you're single. AND THERE ARE SOME MEN WHO REFUSE TO MAKE EYE CONTACT WITH A WOMAN THEY FIND ATTRACTIVE. It's extremely frustrating especially when you feel you're being judged unfairly. Thanks for your candor and for letting me know that I'm not the only one.

Posted By: Christian | September 8, 2010 4:00 PM