Hermenuetics

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I want to find movies that pass this test. Then I want to make sure that my granddaughter AND my grandsons see it. Because the boys need to understand, too, that girls' lives aren't just about boys.

Posted By: Sheila | August 6, 2010 2:06 PM

hmmm...thinking of some older non-animated movies, Anne of Green Gables, Polyanna, Little House Series, Kitt Kittredge, Because of Winn-Dixie, Bridge to Terabithia, Parent Trap...

Posted By: Anonymous | August 7, 2010 9:07 PM

There may be a very insightful reason for this lack of women's conversations in the Pixar movies, and others. The measurement that says women have to discuss something among themselves in order for the story to be respectful of women could be a bogus measurement. In a film like "The Hours" in which there are three women at the center of the story, I can see women in discussion. But in a story like "The Way We Were" its about a woman trying to make it in a man's world and standing out as a real independent thinker, with all that that cost her. This measurement doesn't encompass enough. Just a thought.

Posted By: Jack Hafer | August 8, 2010 1:01 PM

Hayao Miyazaki's film Ponyo, based loosely on The Little Mermaid (the Hans Christian Anderson tale, not the Disney movie version), passes the test. Multiple times.

As a matter of fact, almost all of Hayao Miyazaki's films pass the test. They are considered the Japanese counterpart to Disney's animated features (so much so that Disney owns the rights to distribute the films in pretty much all non-Japanese territory). I'm sorry, but if you're going to point out the Disney princesses, I would suggest you check out some different "princesses" -- found in Princess Mononoke, Castle in the Sky, Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle, etc.

Not saying the Miyazaki films are without flaw, but in terms of sexism influencing our children's films, I think Japan was a step ahead of America, and that's one of many reasons I'll happily show the Miyazaki films to my children over and above the Western Disney films (minus Mononoke until they're teens, for the obvious issue of violence).

Posted By: Patrick Gann | August 9, 2010 11:59 AM

Thanks for the recommendation, Patrick! I enjoyed Howl's Moving Castle, and I will have to check out Ponyo and the others you mention from Miyazaki.

The movies Anonymous mentioned also make me realize that Walden Media http://www.walden.com/movies/ has done several films with multiple women characters

Jack, I completely agree that the Bechdel Test can't be used to determine whether a movie has something to offer women - many great films with wonderful women characters wouldn't pass the test.

I still hold out hope that Pixar will do more films in the future with female characters; their films are so wonderful and imaginative and have broad appeal - I suspect they are capable of making films with strong female characters that would also appeal to boys and men.

Posted By: Hannah | August 9, 2010 12:31 PM

I can think of several interesting movies where women have rich friendships and conversation, but most of them are not kids' movies, which is the subject in view. When I think of the stories which really inspired and defined me as a child, the stories that come to mind are from books, not movies. Maybe that's because my parents taught me to view movies more like candy (if books are entrees), and if so, they were right, in my opinion.

Posted By: Susan | August 9, 2010 1:05 PM

I'm not sure I agree with viewing movies as the candy to books entrée. It may be true for many people because of the movies they watch and how they watch them. But I am a strong believer that film, when made and used properly, has the potential to be just as viable and useful an art form as any other medium, including books...

Posted By: Sam | August 11, 2010 7:05 PM

I enjoy all the movies that don't pass the "Bechdal" test. We sometimes look for something to talk about merely for the enjoyment of casting "flaws" on what we would consider more appropriate or better. There are so many movies out there showing women in healthy relationships that this is truly a non issue in my opinion.

Posted By: TruthBTold | August 13, 2010 8:19 AM

How about the Narnia movies? Lucy & Susan certainly talk to each other about all sorts of things!
Ella in Ella Enchanted discusses the politics of her magical kingdom with her best friend and debates political issues with her stepsisters!
And Anne Hathaway in Princess Diaries discusses politics, leadership, fear, and more with her best friend, mom, and grandma!

Posted By: Maman A Droit | August 16, 2010 10:12 PM

I definitely disagree with the comment stating that this is a "non-issue". It's actually a huge, important issue in our culture today! Unfortunately, although we have made great strides towards gender equality, we are not there yet. Apparently some film schools even teach against writing films with strong female leads (http://thehathorlegacy.com/why-film-schools-teach-screenwriters-not-to-pass-the-bechdel-test/)! No, this is definitely an issue and shouldn't be ignored.

Thank you, Hannah, for this insightful post. I love Disney (having grown up during the golden age of animation myself), but still think this is an interesting and unfortunate observation. It's perhaps even more unfortunate though that many don't share that concern.

Posted By: Megan | August 16, 2010 11:27 PM

Jack, I completely agree that the Bechdel Test can't be used to determine whether a movie has something to offer women - many great films with wonderful women characters wouldn't pass the test.

Posted By: Book Publishers | August 18, 2010 11:05 AM

I think your point is a good one, Jack: that the Bechdel Test is a flawed measurement of whether a movie includes multi-dimensional female characters and friendships. ('The Way We Were,' about the strong, smart, *and* romantically inclined Katie Morosky, is a great example.) But I think the Test at least gets moviegoers thinking in the right direction. It helpfully brings to light just how few non-sexualized female characters there are. (By non-sexualized, I mean female characters who are not primarily there to add sex appeal and nudity.)

Thanks for the movie recommendations, Maman and Patrick!

Posted By: Katelyn Beaty | August 18, 2010 3:34 PM

Thanks for raising what I think is a very important topic. You didn't even mention Disney Channel movies, shows, music either. Yikes!

Posted By: Melody Hanson | August 25, 2010 7:57 PM

Yes, that's probably a reasonable criticism. There are a number of adult movies about women who aren't obsessed with men (I would recommend The Secret life of Bees, for instance), but less so with Disney animated films. I think the girl in the new Princess and the Frog movie probably has a conversation with her friend about her business, but the friend is something of a dope. Her family is less dysfunctional than Disney usually produces, however. That may be a good example of the difficulties a company like Disney faces, however. They want a strong, independent woman, so they have someone who wants to work her way up in the world and open a business. But what "happily ever after" looks like has to be the same as it has been, and so there are all the same character development difficulties there have ever been: the resolution for a Disney princess movie apparently cannot be ambigous or non-romantic the way Miyazaki's often are, because that's not in the genera, as it were.

Posted By: Irene | August 25, 2010 8:35 PM

Thanks Hannah! Well said. I've also noticed that many of the friendships that do appear in movies are often born out of pain or a difficult shared experience. Of course this often mirrors real life, and movies by design are built on this sort of drama. But often it appears that friendships exist because of a difficult situation rather than because women are healthy and this is what they seek/celebrate in this life. I thought as I read your piece of the older film "Pretty Woman." And how out of a profession that is deeply degrading to women the friendship of Julia Robert's and her friend Kit emerges. CLEARY we are not talking deep film making here but this film is a classic around which many women of my generation still make casual notes and references. And while some might suggest it is because they want a rags to riches princess story where a wealthy Richard Gere to rescues them, my sneaking suspicion is that they could skip the man and that they wanted a friend like Kit.

Posted By: Tracey Bianchi | September 7, 2010 4:11 PM

Very late to this conversation, but in light of Disney's announcement they won't be making any more princess films after Tangled and that they shifted marketing of Tangled from focusing on the female lead to the male, we do still have gender equality issues. This is a problem bigger than the films being made, of course.
I was thrilled to see the Miyazaki recommendation, though, love love love those movies.

Posted By: Amy | November 24, 2010 1:07 PM