Her.meneutics: When Sex Becomes an Idol

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« Much Ado About Mark Driscoll | Main | Doing Authentic Ministry with My Smokin' Hot Bride »

July 18, 2011

When Sex Becomes an Idol

Jenell Williams Paris's The End of Sexual Identity seeks to overturn the power that sexual identity labels — homosexual and heterosexual — have in and outside the church.

Amy Julia Becker

In the past few months, I couldn’t help noticing the flurry of articles about the PCUSA’s decision to ordain people in same-sex relationships, the repeal of the military’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy, the passage of same-sex marriage laws in New York, and the decision of Chaz Bono, daughter of Sonny and Cher, to become a man.

Yet conversations about sex and sexual identity emerge as often around our dinner tables as on the front page of the paper. Recently, a pastor told me about a married member of his congregation who routinely cheats on his wife with other men. A friend described helping a female friend pick out an engagement ring so she could propose to her girlfriend. Another friend sat at our dinner table and talked about leaving the church after years of celibacy because he couldn’t deny his gay identity. Jenell Williams Paris, an anthropology and sociology professor at Messiah College, seeks to enter this cultural conversation in her new book, The End of Sexuality: Why Sex Is Too Important to Define Who We Are (InterVarsity Press). Moreover, Paris seeks to change the conversation within the church. Her analysis of contemporary culture offers a helpful aid to Christians trying to wade through the complex issues surrounding gender and sexuality in the modern age.

Paris does not want to overturn centuries of traditional Christian doctrine about sexuality, singleness, and marriage. Rather, she wants Christians to understand the manner in which we have capitulated to our culture, and then she wants to help churches create communities that offer a better way for all people, regardless of sexual experience, desire, or practice. To begin that new way, Paris insists we reclaim our core identity as God’s beloved rather than identify ourselves according to sexual preferences, either heterosexual or homosexual, which are relatively modern labels. Paris writes, “All sexual identity categories have a common trouble; they tell us that what a person wants, sexually, is an important measure of who a person is.” The same could be said for other identity categories, be they ethnic, racial, economic, or related to ability and disability. As Christians, first and foremost we know ourselves as members of the body of Christ, as new creations by the power and work of the Spirit of God. Only as we recognize this truth about ourselves and about our sisters and brothers can conversations about sexual practice proceed in a constructive way.

Despite her critique of sexual identity categories, Paris does not seek to overturn traditional biblical understandings of sex and sexuality. She calls herself a “ ‘sex only within marriage between a man and a woman’ kind of Christian,” and she acknowledges, “God did create humans male and female. But sin has influenced every dimension of human life . . . .” She upholds a biblical understanding of creation, sin, and redemption, although she might have spent more time examining the theological significance of being created “male and female, in the image of God.” Paris approaches the Genesis passage from a sociological standpoint, but she needs to provide an exegetical lens as well. Furthermore, she is so concerned about questioning the cultural construction of sexual identity that she fails to thoroughly discuss the Bible’s understanding of masculinity and femininity.

Paris asserts that reclaiming our core identity enables us to eliminate a hierarchy of “heterosexual” and “homosexual” within the church. Only then can we begin conversations about holiness in general and sexual holiness in particular. She writes, “In post-sexual identity Christian communities, sexual holiness becomes a common standard for all believers. Same-sex attraction and behavior still matter, but not as identity-constituting characteristics and not as points of theological disagreement that warrant separation or exclusion.” Sexual holiness, according to Paris, includes celibacy for people who experience same-sex attraction as well as for people who are unmarried and attracted to someone of the opposite sex. And rather than call for individuals to repent, be they individuals who have participated in same-sex sex or individuals who have condemned and judged others, Paris instead calls for cultural renewal throughout the church.

Paris suggests that celibacy is not currently “plausible” because there are very few ways to experience intimacy without sex in contemporary culture, even within the church. She upholds an ideal of celibacy that exists with institutional and relational support: “Long-term celibacy becomes plausible when there are widely held values, positive language, meaningful social roles and real social support for celibates.” Unfortunately, she doesn’t offer specific examples of communities — past or present — in which such support has existed. And she could spend more time examining the theological significance of Jesus and Paul and other New Testament figures who live holy and full lives as celibate persons.

The End of Sexual Identity could use more theology to balance out its anthropological focus. Nevertheless, Paris upholds a Christian understanding of who we are as human beings while offering a critique of the church for its appropriation of modern cultural categories that create false power structures and divisions.

Which brings me back to the headlines and dinner conversations of late. Paris’s book offers hope that the church might become a refuge for people who have been marginalized by cultural assumptions about sex. Instead of supporting divisions, The End of Sexual Identity reminds readers that identity is bestowed upon us by God, not by our sexuality. It rebukes me for my participation in the divisions created by sexual identity categories. And it helps me consider ways to support and equip single people as meaningful members of our church community. Paris herself doesn’t go this far, but her book also reminds me that — even when it involves self-denial, even when it involves countercultural lifestyles — God’s way of holiness is good for all people. It reminds me that the way of holiness is the way of love.

Comments

My husband and I are Episcopalians. Once, talking about our church's divisions over homosexuality, my husband observed that, "It's because we live in a culture obsessed with sex. Even the church can't seem to talk about anything else." Our pastor thought my husband was joking; he wasn't. We have made sexual identity into the bottom line for everything and everyone, both in the church and in the culture at large. It's why we insist on believing that little boys who like pink must be gay or transgendered. I would love to see Christians take the lead in embracing people for whom sexual identity is only one part of who they are, and not the most important part.

Wow! What a helpful review of an intriguing book. This gives me some hope about finding ways to navigate through the sometimes difficult tenstions between the fallenness of human sexuality, the realities of contemporary culture, and the unchanging standards of scripture. Thank you!

I agree. This sounds like an intiguing book. I've long wondered why people have to be identified by their sexuality at all. Indentifying people by one characteristic objectifies those people and it is very easy to dismiss a group we don't think we agree with. People are more than their sexuality. God is holy. God is love. God's words has standards, what is and what is not holy. But there is also grace that allows us all to approach God's throne through Jesus. I think I'm going to read this book. Thank you Amy for the review.

You're ignoring the very basic fact of gender as God created us. If you're think that God can't get it right, then we, His created, certainly are not going to. Stop trying to second guess God's creation and pay attention to what His Word says about homosexuality. No matter what spin you attempt to put on it, homosexuality remains a sin and should be treated as such. If we don't then we're in that sin along with those practicing homosexuality.

To Charlie Dyer: I think you may have missed the point of the review and most of the comments. The point isn't to condone homosexual PRACTICE but to be charitable toward those who have homosexual identity, just as we routinely remain charitable toward those who engage in other kinds of heterosexual PRACTICE. Various things lead us into sin but in the end it is the "being led into sin" that matters. Hell will not have different categories based on WHY one was a sinner, or WHAT led them to sin.

"...could use more theology to balance out its anthropological focus." So why doesn't she? Perhaps she doesn't have a grasp on the theology. Or maybe she doesn't like the way the Bible addresses homosexuality. It's almost as if she ignores the fact that there can be never be a rapproachment between the homosexual belief about their own identity (as being normal)and what the Bible says. And I don't think the conversation can ever move forward w/o gays first acknowledging that their homosexual sexual behavior is sinful. Leviticus 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." There it is - the 800 lbs. gorilla in the room. And Becker almost seems as if she wants to ignore it. So is she trying to sneak acceptance of gays in through the back door of the church so as to - you know - "dialogue" about what we have in common? That's what liberals do - talk, talk, talk. So my question is "Is Becker a closet progressive liberal?"

@ Dan
ironic that while this whole article is about how our relationship to sex is too simple to define us you insert another label — one that is even far less important — to contain sexual identity.
why even waste your time asking someone if they are an anti-christ? just ask them if if they are a progressive liberal.

Amen to the comment written by Charlie Dyer. We should love the sinner -- but, when we start blessing the sin and trying to cover it with societal norms instead of Biblical truth; we, as a society and as the body of Christ -- are in trouble. God bless, Bill Gray

What an ugly topic indeed! What meant to be personal and intimate from the very beginning, becomes a subject of a casual public talk, scientific-like, yet, cynical, without moral boundaries. It's sickening, don't you agree, brothers and sisters? It seems to me, an outsider for American failing church culture; that some of you, guys, really like to entertain the idea of being even more "merciful", than the Savior Himself! Any person, who lives in sin, who does not resist its mortal temptation CANNOT become "a better" one, in light of God's word! Christ Jesus, however, gives us that power to fight and overcome!And Repentance is a key word in the process of true redemption! There is power in His blood, power by faith and the work of the Holy Spirit!

@Ellen and Jim-Thanks for your thoughtful comments!
@Charlie-No one is ignoring gender; it's just that it isn't our identity. What the author is saying is that we have elevated it above our identity, whether we are homosexual or heterosexual. We are children of God (if we are believers) first, then there are other aspects of our nature such as gender that are secondary. All of us are in process toward holiness, although some of us are more disordered than others.

Once the Bible has been stripped of all patriarchy and gender has become merely an accident of the physical, we then can proceed to gloss all sexual distinctions as social constructs to be manipulated as we please. Thus, all hierarchy must be eliminated, including the hierarchy of sin before God. In one sense, all sins are worthy of divine condemnation, but the Bible is clear that not all sins are equal in their evil consequences. In the NT churches, all believers sin, but not all sins are equally punished such that discipline is enacted. Sexual sins are always severely dealt with since they are destructive of body and soul, of the very fabric of the social order and indeed of personal identity. Gender is integral to personhood.

[Shake the tree and see what falls out. What's the matter, CG, can't interact w/o being snobby? Or is it b/c you are a prog lib, too?] The Gospel should always be the issue - and that Biblical standard should never be compromised by "dialogue". I hope Becker is not suggesting a sort of "coffee and cookies icebreaker" hoping that we can sort of, kind of bring up a rather unpleasant subject. The Biblical prohibitions to homosexual behavior are clear. And if you don't like it - tough.

Sounds like an interesting book, and I really appreciate the balanced way in which you reviewed it, Amy Julia. "...the way of holiness is the way of love" = beautiful!

Though many Christians - and contributors to this page - see the Old Testament as precluding homosexuals from a relationship with God, there are an equal number who do not see sexual identity and practice as some "800lb gorilla in the room" which prevents being close to God. Throwing around facile labels such as "progressive liberal" or "conservative" as pejorative terms continues to miss the point about us all being children of God. These are labels created by man, just as sexual identity classifying terms have been created by man. Live by your own interpretation of the Bible and be true to what you feel and know in your heart. But don't presume to judge the beliefs or interpretations of others for it is arrogant and naive - especially when our faith springs from inside each individual, not from belonging to a human-defined "category". This book sounds interesting and insightful.

You guys are so lucky that you are not gay. Because my church and family think I should be dead because I am. All I want is to love someone and start a life. But a long time ago someone 'heard' the word of God and wrote in a book that says what I feel is wrong. Now, people follow these words without thought and cast stones at what they think is from the devil, like I'm some monster. But if God still speaks to you and me, then why does he tell me that he made me this way? Is that the voice of God? I know that it is. God tells me that I am not separate from him and that he made me this way. You are saying to yourself right now that the voice I'm hearing is not God. But you can not hear it, so how do you know? Can you judge another person's heart without living their life??? It is a sweet voice that tells me this is how I made you. There used to be another voice. It told me that I was bad and should kill myself. But God's voice is stronger than that one. His voice comforts. His voice does not judge. God made me to for a reason, and that reason has nothing to do with who you think I should be so that you feel more comfortable around me. Can you imagine a life lived without a kiss or a hand to hold? These are beautiful things! That is what you are asking gay people to give up by denying the truth. No wonder so many gay people kill themselves. Loss of love will drive them to that. Lack of support will drive them to do that. Is that the Christian way? I think not. Stop being so selfish. This issue is not about being right or wrong. It is about being loving. You have more sympathy for the alcoholic stranger on the corner with the card-board "homeless" sign that you do for your brother who was born gay. He chose to drink...I never chose this. I am this. I'm done with feeling bad because you say I should. I'm done with living my life to make you happy. I hope that you will all one day accept that gay people are just like you: They want to be accepted, loved, welcomed. Be aware of the harm you may be causing someone.

"...the way of holiness is the way of love" = beautiful!
Couldn't be more awful, Rachel! Deceptive, truncated, misleading and contradictory statement of that nature that Paul, the Apostle, would indeed say "Anathema"! God is not a sort of soft-cloud-like deity at all, but a consuming fire! Our very salvation cost Him everything - that is Love! which, however, cannot substitute the foundational righteousness of God. (Psalm 89:14)

There is salvation, there is redemption, there is hope and victory for everybody in Christ! As long as His lovingkindness is extended, it's time to run to Jesus! (Matt. 11:28)

@Caeli L.
1.I'm taking a little survey: do you believe in moral absolutes?
2.You are entitled to your own opinions, CL, but you are not entitled to your own facts. What God's Word says about human sexuality is the issue here, and I don't give a whit about what anthropologists/sociologists/psychologist or any other -ologist says. What God's word says trumps your interpretations, my interpretations and their interpretations. And God's word, the Bible, gives us plenty of plain and simple facts about what is morally right and wrong. Now the fact is - if you're willing to accept it - God condemns same-sex sex. [But if He doesn't please provide book, chapter and verse where He has changed His mind.] And a plain and simple reading of God's Word tells the truth about homosexuality: it is immorality. Here's what God's word says: Jesus said
Matt. 4:4 “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.’”
Interpretation: The OT Law was Jesus' sole authority and formed the basis of His moral theology and His teaching.

What does the OT teach?
*Exodus 20:14 “You shall not commit adultery."
*Lev. 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
What does the NT teach?
*Matt. 15:19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications..."
Conclusion: Gay/lesbian sex is nothing more than sexual immorality - which Jesus condemned.

3.Lev. 18:22 is the 800 lb. gorilla in the room and he won't be ignored. You can say that others interpret this text differently as if to dismiss it from the conversation -but it doesn't change what it means. Jesus obviously believed it as it was God's word and He believed and trusted God's word. And dismissing this verse b/c it is inconvenient is like ignoring the 800 lb. gorilla in the room. His presence is always felt tho not seen. (By the way Paul addressed same-sex immorality in Rom. 1 - I know "it doesn't mean what it says." Yeah, I've heard that before, too. It's the other 800 lb gorilla in the room.

4.And regarding the label PROGRESSIVE LIBERAL - That's THEIR LABEL FOR THEMSELVES - I didn't make it up. [Had I been asked to think up a name for them, it would have been REGRESSIVE LIBERAL.]

5."...it is arrogant and naive..." as you so judgmentally put it. Typical...

6.So even tho Paris says she is a “‘sex only within marriage between a man and a woman’ kind of Christian,” "...and she acknowledges, “God did create humans male and female," I find her admission of this truth a little too rehersed. She never really comes out in the review and says same-sex sex is sinful. Becker points out "...rather than call for individuals to repent, be they individuals who have participated in same-sex sex or individuals who have condemned and judged others, Paris instead calls for cultural renewal throughout the church." [Prog lib speak alert!!!] Becker even says she "...seeks to change the conversation within the church." [More Prog lib speak!!!] And Becker's review keeps pointing out that Paris doesn't use the Bible to support her book - much like prog libs don't and can't! use the Bible to support their erroneous beliefs. And it's this lack of Biblical "lens" that Becker refers to that gives me pause.

If it walks like a duck and if it quacks like a duck...

@Jack: The ground at the foot of the cross is level. That means homosexual, heterosexual, or any other orientation - it doesn't matter, in order to find peace with God we must come to Him in repentance and humility, confess our sin, ask His forgiveness, and trust Him as our only sacrifice for our sin. See the following link. It will give a fuller explanation of what I just said: http://www.fbcpleasanthill.org/pdf%20documents/stepstopeacewithgod.pdf

But Jack, just because someone tells you the truth about yourself doesn't necessarily mean they hate you or want you to kill yourself. And I know for a certainty God doesn't hate you or want you to kill yourself (Ezekial 18:32 "For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and live.” He loves you. But to experience real happiness in a relationship with God you must not only trust Christ as savior but obey Him too. And obedience means abstaining from sexual immorality - for homsexual and heterosexual alike. You may not have chosen your orientation, but you can choose how to behave. I really hope you choose Christ and find the peace and experience the change He will bring into your life. II Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come."

Is the Bible God's Word? And if it is, should we measure God's Word by our personal experience and feelings?

Checking back this morning to see if there was a compassionate response from someone on here. I am met with the same words that those around me hold in my face. I am sorry, but I can not abide by that "rule". The bible was written by men, the human hand. There is a lot in it that is valuable ( a whole lot!) But there are also words in it that many Christians do not think are relevant. Why do you cling to this one? I can not allow any one or any book to tell me that I am sinful because of who I am in love with. My life and spiritual growth have blossomed since I listened to my heart. I would rather follow my heart today than to try and live by an unattainable standard as told by a heterosexual tribe leader 3000 years ago. The human heart is stronger than the human mind. My mind told me to feel the way my elders told me I should feel, which led me to despair and darkness. But my heart and God have another path for me: a path of love and acceptance.
I'm going with God. I can no longer give attention to Christians who want me to be something sexually unattainable for me. I am a new creature in Christ. One who does not care anymore about human opinion based on an out-dated sentence in a book that more and more followers of Christ are disregarding. I will find a church that accepts me the way that God made me. I am as able to change who I love as you are able to change your skin color. I won't be checking back on here. I am well aware of your inability to think without your biblical filter in place (I did that too), and I am not one for banging my head on a brick wall. I am sorry that I thought you were capable of any different action. I know you will not change for me, and I will not ask you to anymore. You must live what you feel in your own heart, as must I. Good bye.

It always strikes me odd how the Evangelical community is quick to blast the gays by " speaking the truth in love" or " loving the sinner but hating the sin" condemning people for loving...all because as the earlier reader so eloquently spate " the 800 lb gorilla in the room " namely the passages from Leviticus that condemn homosexuality ( he was probably trimming the corners of his beard while having a shrimp cocktail)but by in large the Evangelicals welcome divorced people from all walks of life, seemingly ignoring the stern warnings of Christ Himself ( btw Jesus never mentions homosexuality) Jesus said that we are to stay married except in cases when infidelity is involved...divorce for any other reason was the same as commiting adultery...and we all know that the adulterer will never inherit the kingdom of God...right? Both of these life-situations involve sex and relationships and I think the bigger point is that all of us should be like the publican beating our chests bowed down before our loving and graceful God lamenting over our sinfulness and praising God for His matchless mercy rather than acting like the Pharasee thanking our creator that we aren't like the humble sorry sinner....that in reality we all are...

@Jack: God loves us with an everlasting love and He always accepts us the way we are, yet He never leaves us the way He finds us. He radically changes us from the inside (our heart) out. He makes us new people with new desires [II Cor. 5:17] so that we may enjoy Him and His riches in Christ for eternity [Eph. 1] But He won't fellowship with us while we are living in sin. [1John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.] Jack, you may think you are okay living the homosexual lifestyle, and you say you feel this is right. But God's Word says differently. Feelings change; God's word never changes. [Isaiah 40:6-8 “All people are like grass, and all their faithfulness is like the flowers of the field.
7 The grass withers and the flowers fall...8but the word of our God endures forever.”
Jack, it is tragic if people have rejected you like you say they have - and I don't doubt you - and I am sorry for your pain. But God sent His only Son to be the sacrifice for the world and pay the penalty for our sins; and we must accept as true what His word says about us. Again I want you to know He cares for you more than anyone ever possibly could; but to experience that love and forgiveness you must receive Christ as your Savior (see the link above).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTTsGIf1U58

Very well spoken, Dan!

Visiting some tough places (like Russian prison, for example - not for everybody experience!), i noticed how people are quick to start crying about themselves. Because they eventually find themselves in a very uncomfortable place. Which is, I have to say, a quite logical continuation of a lifestyle since their very childhood. However, only a few of them can actually repent! Why? Because, it requires some courage to make this small, yet huge step ahead; and some honesty. Usually, you can hear a lot of creative stories from those guys, blaming whoever you can imaging...

Yes, God Almighty accepts sinners the way they are, but He never leaves them the way they were! He turns them away from their sin; then He makes them, forgiven and born again, His wonderful testimony. But, until it happen, there is no opportunity for "celebration" this kind of tragedy - unfortunately, sin always separates us from God. Let's run from it! to Jesus!

@Vik: sin always separates us from God. Let's run from it! to Jesus!" Amen, bro! Amen. And thanks for your encouraging words. Now, I may be completely wrong about Paris' book, but Becker's review left me feeling like the author is trying to figure out a way to welcome gays into the church w/o requiring them to repent of their sin - so as to move the conversation forward. (I am reminded of the "fox in the chicken house" analogy here.) Of course this isn't the first time this has happened. This is how the mainline denominations went liberal about a century ago. They let non-Christians become members and then into leadership and seminary positions w/o gospel conversion - so as to "move the conversation forward." Big mistake then; big mistake now.

Bro. Dan,
Thanks very much for responding generously on my quite poorly composed remark(English composition is still a challenge for me).
Indeed, it is a big, costly mistake! Sin inevitably produces grave result (James 1:15), don't we see some churches as spiritually dead as a cemetery? What a bitter "celebration" indeed!

Oi. I don't even know where to begin. Jack, God bless. Please ignore these arrogant comments. People are just trying to make themselves feel better, more holy, and less sinful by condemning you.

Read Mick's response people! There needs to be a discussion regarding that!

----It always strikes me odd how the Evangelical community is quick to blast the gays by " speaking the truth in love" or " loving the sinner but hating the sin" condemning people for loving...all because as the earlier reader so eloquently spate " the 800 lb gorilla in the room " namely the passages from Leviticus that condemn homosexuality ( he was probably trimming the corners of his beard while having a shrimp cocktail)but by in large the Evangelicals welcome divorced people from all walks of life, seemingly ignoring the stern warnings of Christ Himself ( btw Jesus never mentions homosexuality) Jesus said that we are to stay married except in cases when infidelity is involved...divorce for any other reason was the same as committing adultery...and we all know that the adulterer will never inherit the kingdom of God...right? Both of these life-situations involve sex and relationships and I think the bigger point is that all of us should be like the publican beating our chests bowed down before our loving and graceful God lamenting over our sinfulness and praising God for His matchless mercy rather than acting like the Pharisee thanking our creator that we aren't like the humble sorry sinner....that in reality we all are... ---

Bro. Vik - You don't need to apologize for your writing ability - you do fine. Your comments are simple and direct (Jacque Barzan's test for good writing)as well as biblical, sound and relevant. As for me, I am an English teacher and started commenting here b/c I wanted to work on writing concisely about Biblical issues. And in my own self-assessment, I think I have improved; so keep writing and you'll only get better. Guaranteed! On another topic, your unique experiences in Russian prisons should be shared more widely - sounds fascinating. So keep writing!

I agree with Mick and Lindsay, but I would go even further than that - if you read Jesus' words on the topic I don't think he even allows that.

Matthew 5:31-32: “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.”

Matthew 19:3-12 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?” And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so, And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.” His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given: For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He, who is able to accept it, let him accept it.”

Evangelical's will eventually accept gay marriage because they have already accepted divorce/remarriage - once the Boomer's are dead there will be nothing left to stop it IMO.

"Evangelical's will eventually accept gay marriage because they have already accepted divorce/remarriage - once the Boomer's are dead there will be nothing left to stop it IMO."

The calender does not confer virtue, Steph.

Thank you Steph for making it so clear why homosexuality is such an abomination to God. It is because a man and a woman, who are believers, become one when they are married, and during the sexual act, and this is a blessing from God. It must be between a married man and woman only, not only because God says so, although this in itself is more than reason enough, but it is an impossibility between 2 homosexuals to do it as God ordained. Sodomy is also an abomination, as are 2 women attempting to do what they cannot do, because of their anatomies. God has shown His wrath a few times in history at people doing such sinful, disgusting things, and He will in the future. If you think that true Christians think that divorce is just fine, you're terribly mistaken. As God's word says, divorce is only allowed in the case of adultery. My church has disfellowshipped Christians who insisted on getting divorced for non-biblical reasons, and they are just following the instructions given to the Corinthians in dealing with immorality among church members. (1Cor 5)

To those who say that Jesus didn't specifically say they words "homosexuality is a sin" , I have to ask, you either do not read the Bible, or you purposefully distort it so that you can push your beliefs and place them above Gods. Jesus says in John 14 says "He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; And Jesus saying this in Matt 19 does make it clear what He says is the only correct and only way, other than abstinence:
“Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

And as for those who twist and distort God's word, this in NO way refers to idol worship. Give us a break. The vast majority of us are tired of the lies and distortions. People who lie and twist God's words and try to justify their sin certainly don't fool God. They may fool people on this planet who have been "dumbed down" in their classes and by the media and by foolish people in this world who have no love of God in their hearts. Because if you love God, you try to please Him. It is not ok to continue in sin that is an abomination to God, and not ok for those who try to teach children that homosexuality is not wrong, for they will pay a huge price on judgment day. They cannot be lovers of God and try to destroy His Word at the same time, and try to destroy the next generation. For those who tried to keep the children away from Jesus, He had this to say in Luke 17 'It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble.' Those who teach little children that homosexuality is ok, will pay a great price. I pray that they will repent. They are on the level of pedophiles, they are doing GREAT harm to the minds of children, something that affects their eternal life. People have become so brain-washed that they fail to see the great harm that is being done.

I hope I am wrong Steph, but you sound happy that once the older generation passes away, you can all sin to your hearts content. But there will always be a remnant of believers, and I know a great many young people who follow God's Word and want to, because they believe it with all their hearts. I hope I'm wrong, because God's judgment will be harsh for the sinners of immorality. And those who are promoting it and actually looking forward to the day when they will no longer have their sin pointed out to them, will have all of eternity to suffer because they think that their ways are wiser than God's ways. I pray that sinners who keep willfully sinning because they don't believe God's word, will repent and return to Him. He loves His children, but Jesus repeatedly said how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God, not how "easy" it is to enter.

Saying you must believe that Jesus is your Lord and Savior, and believe this with all your heart and soul is what is really required, along with loving God, and wanting to do His will because of your love, because even satan believes in Jesus. We all must have Jesus #1 in our lives, and that really is not that easy a task, and it is not done by those who are constantly quibbling with God's word so that they can try and redefine what God's word says regarding their sin, so that they can justify it. Jesus, and His words to us, must be placed above people's sexual desires, or whatever other sin they are placing above their love for God.
.
A real, true belief is not so easy, we must be willing to give up everything, including our wilful, disobedient, sinfulness. When we believe the gospel message, it conforms us to the image of God. It does not conform us to become people who look for ways that we can be disobedient to His word, but rather, it conforms us to become doers of the word. Sanctification is the end as it grows in us now, not as legalistic fulfillment of law, but as fruit of faith in Christ, the fulfiller. Because we have died, we are called upon to put to death that which is earthly within us. (Col 3:5). We must consider ourselves as dead to sin and alive to God. (Romans 6:11-13) This will not change just because there will be a new generation. Truth does not change.

But Becker's review is not about divorce/remarriage but of "Jenell Williams Paris's The End of Sexual Identity [which] seeks to overturn the power that sexual identity labels — homosexual and heterosexual — have in and outside the church." But, gay advocate, you are 100% correct! The Bible condemns divorce as sin. (Not exactly front page news, tho, and evangelical pastors preach about it quite a bit.) But here's my question: how is it you can clearly see what those passages mean and yet be completely confused as to how to interpret those verses which condemn homosexuality? It's almost as if you suddenly forget how to read. Or could it be gay advocates are just disingenuous, dishonest, cunning, sly, designing, wily, insidious, feigned, artful, two-faced, shifty, deceitful, insincere, duplicitous, underhanded, guileful..." But that's what I've always suspected. And the more evangelicals see how dishonest gay advocates are the more likely they are organize politically to put a stop to their agenda. Thanks for the opportunity, gay advocate, to make that observation.
@Steph - "Evangelical's will eventually accept gay marriage ..." Momma always said, "Wish in one hand and spit in the other and see which one gets full first.

"Evangelical's will eventually accept gay marriage ..." Steph, then I will be also naively interested, as one old preacher cried: will God then apologize before Sodom and... San-Francisco?

"The calender does not confer virtue, Steph."

I never meant to imply that it does and neither am I evangelical, though I have many friends and family who are. Large swath's of the evangelical landscape have already ceded their authority on remarriage to the culture. One hears implicit and sometimes explicit arguments such as we could never ask someone to forgo sex/family/companionship for the rest of their life because of a mistake they made such as divorce or marrying the "wrong person" (Why don't you believe in grace?:)). This is the argument that those in favor of gay marriage make all the time, except in that case it asking should someone be expected to forgo sex/companionship because of an accident of birth.

Remarriage is the Achilles heel of evangelical "family values" discourse. Therefore my contention is that it is only a matter of time before gay marriage becomes a moot point in these circles.

Lindsay, you spoke wonderfully about specifics of certain sins!
In all of these cases repentance is a crucial moment or process. Which includes realization of necessity of deliverance from sin in the light of the Word; regretful and prayerful confession; complete abandonment of that bad, poisonous stuff of life. In some cases, the weeping process is also critical (like in King David or Peter's instance. Then renewed soul is filled with desire to follow Christ Jesus again, which results freedom and joy unspeakable! All of the above is POSSIBLE with sovereign work of the Holy Spirit, who helps us to stand up again and walk in Him and with Him!
Despite all the criticisms of Christianity hundreds of millions once poor souls are saved exactly that way!
But there is absolutely no way of "celebration" of continuation of living in sin; it destroys the person gradually or rapidly! No acceptance or our most super-compassionate love will help! There are many serious Scriptures on this matter.

Yes, Bro. Dan, indeed it was quite an experience!
I was only able to help to those precious Christian friends, who dedicated themselves for that kind of hard work by responding on their plea to come and visit them with my sinning and preaching team.
Once I was stunned observing about a thousand inmates with their eyes suddenly filled with tears, while we sang a beautiful ukrainian song, a call to Jesus - the very touch of the Spirit of God was at work...
Some of those guys are now ministers of the Lord in various places, like Chechnya. God bless, everybody! enjoy your good night!

"Remarriage is the Achilles heel of evangelical "family values" discourse." Gay advocate, you are ignorant of evangelical Christian theology, as remarriage is not the Achilles heel of evangelical "family values". Of all people evangelicals are most keenly aware of their own sin and its consequences - we put Jesus on the Cross. But we are also keenly aware of God's all-redeeming love, His forgiveness of those who don't deserve it, His cleansing of sin-stained human hearts, His filling us with His blessed Holy Spirit, His daily advocacy for us at the side of the Father, His grace [grace is getting what we don't deserve], His mercy [mercy is not getting what we do deserve] - I could go on...and I think I will - His justifying us [justification is God's declaration of acquittal for the guilty sinner], His sanctifying us [setting us apart for His purposes] & making us Christlike, His reconciling us to Himself, His answer to our prayers, His protection from the enenmy of our souls - Satan, His faithfulness to His promises, His inerrant and infallible Word, His fellowship with us, His comfort in our suffering, and His promise to come again for us His church... No, you are quite wrong, gay advocate, the Achilles heel of the Christian isn't remarriage - for that we can be forgiven. The Achilles heel of the Christian is found in Revelation 3:15 [Jesus speaking]‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16 So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked..." Lukewarmness is the Achilles heel of the evangelical.

@Dan If remarriage can be forgiven than so can homosexuality. And I am not a gay advocate - quite the contrary - I believe in marriage between one man and one woman for life and sadly 95% of evangelicals that I know do not share these opinions.

Of course homosexuality can be forgiven. Who says it cannot?And remarriage is not the real issue - it is adultery that is the issue - and adultery can be forgiven. But it is the practice of sin that shows that repentence is not real.
1.Gal. 5:19-21 "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,... and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
2.1 John 3:4 "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness."
3.1 John 3:8 "...the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."
4.1 John 3:9 "No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

So what is repentence? Paul says in 2 Cor. 7:9 "I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death." Repentence it seems to me is the end product of godly sorrow over sin. And godly sorrow over sin is seeing sin for what it is and for what it cost God's Son.

Now it seems to me that from Becker's review Paris leaves out repentance as a part of moving the conversation forward. But from Scripture it seems repentance - the end product of godly sorrow over sin - is exactly what moves the conversation forward.

And I apologize for calling you a gay advocate. Please forgive me.

All the people making sweeping conclusions about Jenell Paris' politics or theology just need to read the book. The review says she wishes it had more theology, not that it doesn't have any. She uses scripture plenty. It's a very smart book, although judging by a few of the comments here, that won't be seen as a virtue. You don't even have to buy a copy if you're so afraid of supporting heresy, but read it before you post again and further expose ignorance of the argument.

@Brian: "...read it before you post again and further expose ignorance of the argument." [Hey, I resemble that comment.] Perhaps you need some context: I am a reading teacher/English teacher. As you noticed so perceptively from my posts, I have not read the book. Neither have most readers of this review - hence the purpose of Becker's book review.

Now you should also have noticed, Brian, (but apparently you did not) in my posts I asked questions, made predictions, speculated as to the author's purpose, interacted with other's comments, and generally framed the issue from my perspective - which is conservative and evangelical. I did this intentionally, Brian, as a sort of pre-reading activity for myself and others. [Within 10 business days I will send CT a receipt for remittance at the standard consultant rate for services rendered here (I'm kidding CT - & Brian).

You may have also noticed - I hope - I am usually somewhat confrontational in my responses. That, too, is intentional. There is nothing like a good debate to get the blood pressure up and the "little gray cells" working. It worked with you, apparently, b/c you seem annoyed by my comments. You probably even stopped playing your video game long enough to rip off your snooty rebuke (now doesn't this last sentence really make you want to reply to me again?) Don't bother - it was merely for demonstration purposes only.

So, Brian, next time read the posts closely and try to determine the commenter's purpose for their posts, and for goodness sake, relax, and enjoy the romp.

"Adultery"? Which one? The biblical definition, or the Church definition. They're not one and the same.

I'm Anonymous. Dang! Forgot to sign my name.

Have you all forgotten that God Himself can not look upon sin. If He says Homosexuality is a sin, it is a sin. Jesus taught us to love the sinner but not the sin. I have many gay friends whom I love dearly, I don't however accept there lifestyle choice.
Anyone who is involved in any form of sexual impurity is not at peace. God will allow your life to become very unstable and not fun when you go against His will. If Homosexuals accept Christ as their Savior, live a life of celibacy and have a true heart for God, I do belive they will have peace and joy in their lives.

Yes, Dan, you're very confrontational and so good at drawing people out. But this whole discussion of "is homosexuality a sin?" entirely misses the point of Paris' book. If her book were about that at all, this little thread would make sense. But it's not. In fact, it's kind of about the opposite of that. The question she's asking is if "homosexuality" exists. And she's arguing that it doesn't. It's as if she wrote a book saying "Elephants don't exist" and then people start arguing about what they think about elephants. (Some) people are just really really not getting it here.

@Brian: "...she's asking is if "homosexuality" exists. And she's arguing that it doesn't." Well you have certainly piqued my interest with that comment. What an interesting thesis: homosexuality doesn't exist. Hey, wait a minute...I wonder if Jack and the other gay advocates know about this? Shhhhhhhhhh...don't mention it to them - it will probably ruin their day. But hold on, Brian, does she also think heterosexuality doesn't exist?

@Dan: No, Jack and other gay advocates don't know about this. They are invested in the existence of homosexuality. That's why a gay activist would not like Paris' book. However, her bigger point is exactly what you say: heterosexuality doesn't exist either. These concepts of sexual identity are modern creations that have no parallel in scripture. I can't do her book justice in a comment. I would just encourage you to read the book! It's very good! (as the review that started all this said.) :-)

Having sex with somebody of the same sex is sin, God commands us to repent of all sins, not just the ones we feel like repenting of.

The author of this book does not call for people that have committed the sin of same sex to repent, since she says:

"And rather than call for individuals to repent, be they individuals who have participated in same-sex sex or individuals who have condemned and judged others, Paris instead calls for cultural renewal throughout the church."

This author needs to repent of going against the clear Word of God, she is leading many into error.

Sorry Dan; your false theology might impress Biblical illiterates and 'cultural Christians', but Christ is unmistakably clear that whoever divorces and remarries is guilty of adultery and remains guilty of adultery until they repent, which means leaving behind the sin of remarriage and remaining single. Jesus speaks those words in the perfect present participal, which means it is perpetually present tense.
Whoever remains in a 'second marriage' is an unrepentant sinner, and thus not a true believer.

Mark, are you really saying that the answer to divorce and remarriage is. . . more divorce?

"Jack and other gay advocates don't know about this. They are invested in the existence of homosexuality. That's why a gay activist would not like Paris' book. However, her bigger point is exactly what you say: heterosexuality doesn't exist either."

Clearly, you don't know many gay "advocates", whatever those are supposed to be.

The whole point of the gay movement is to allow non-heterosexuals (like myself, I freely tell you) to make society one where issues of sexual orientation aren't relevant, where people are able to construct meaningful, honest lives embedded in families and society without being punished for their inclinations, where sexuality becomes as much of an issue as--say--handedness.

"In post-sexual identity Christian communities, sexual holiness becomes a common standard for all believers. Same-sex attraction and behavior still matter, but not as identity-constituting characteristics and not as points of theological disagreement that warrant separation or exclusion."

I don't think that many gay Christians of my acquaintance would disagree at all with this particular statement.

Randy, you'd be a little more believable if you didn't have things like your warped parades, where you show you definitely are NOT like the rest of us. You'd be more believable if you and your friends hadn't already pushed for signed legislation in California to have in all it's textbooks (and because California buys so many textbooks, they'll also be in other states books) the "history of the gay movement". So, please give us a break when you say that you wish it were treated no more differently than handedness. You could have remained silent and continued with your jobs just like homosexuals have for hundreds of years. When I apply for a job, I don't say, "Hi, I'm Barbara, and I'm heterosexual". You want to be able to say "Hi, I'm gay" and be given special privileges and rights. You want much more. I know in my lifetime you will be pushing for pedophilia because you will say it's wrong to "punish" people of certain ages to not be able to express their sexuality. If you wanted it to be treated no differently than handedness, you wouldn't have corrupted so many of our institutions, such as the military, churches, and our schools already.

@Mark: [Wow, Mark, I'm feeling pretty bad now that I found out I didn't impress you. [Sigh] And I had such high hopes, too...But at least the Biblical illiterates and the cultural Christians appreciate me.] Rom. 3:4 "...let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written..." So I do stand corrected in part of what I said. You are quite right: remarriage is forbidden by Jesus for any reason except marital unfaithfulness. Here's the text by Jesus.

*In Matt. 19:4-9 Jesus based His authoritative statement on the Gen.2 passage: "And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5 and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” 7 They *said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?” 8 He *said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Even His disciples connected the dots: v.10 “If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry.”

What does Paul have to say to Christians about divorce/remarriage?
*I Cor. 7:10 "But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife."

Both Jesus and Paul agree here: Christians who divorce their spouse for anything other than unfaithfulness are to remain unmarried or they are to reconcile to their spouse.

So what are the evangelical churches to think with the divorced and remarried couples who divorced and remarried as Christians in disobedience to God's Word?
-Are these marriages illegitimate?
-Are the couples in those marriages in a perpetual state of adultery?
-Can their remarriage be forgiven?
-Should they annul their marriages and return to being single?

How does God's Word counsel us here? This is your chance, to shine, Mark - impress us with your Biblical solutions - but give us Biblical texts to support your solution. And please, give us more than the put-downs you gave last time.

@Randy McDonald:
A little survey:

1.Randy, do you believe in moral absolutes? YES/NO

2.Should beastiality be legalized by society? YES/NO

3.Should polygamy be legalized by society? YES/NO

4.Should polyamory be legalized in society? YES/NO

5.Should consensual pedophila be legalized in society? YES/NO

Unless you reply, I will take your silence as a NO for each question.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1722155##

ya know in reading all these rebuttals ...as the Christian parent of a gay daughter ...I throw my hands up...it seems that the evagelicals are quick to judge and quicker bludgeon us all with their impressive knowledge of scriptue...Do you even know any Gay people? While I'm not sure that homosexuality is as black and white as I thought before my little girl " came out" meaning you either are or you aren't...I think with some its a choice and with others its in their DNA...like my hetrosexuality is...and I'm really not sure that it matters especially in the case of two committed monogmous individuals...I think unfaithfulness or sleeping around is a very poor choice in both sexual orientation camps...intamacy...and the longings and needing of sexual intamacy is a God given gift and should not be shared, despite our societys bent, randomly and carelessly...It seems to me that God is very concerned with how we get along with each other...so much so that Jesus put our loving each other on equal footings with loving God....So thatis what we should do and it appears to be a full time job...

God calls us to live in obedience to His commands, regardless of our affections.
*I Peter 1:13 "As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; 16 because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.”

"...Jesus put our loving each other on equal footings with loving God..." Jesus said the two greatest commandments were to love people and to love God.
Matt. 22:37 And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘(YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

I don't think He had same-sex attraction in mind when He said this.

"Do you even know any Gay people?" Since you asked, yes. I also know some alcoholics and I also know some mentally ill people, too. I don't condone the alcoholic lifestyle, nor do I approve of the schizophrenic lifestyle. Both are said to be genetically based.

".so much so that Jesus put our loving each other on equal footings with loving God..."

Um, no. Loving God is the first and greatest commandment.

As I read through these comments, I see a lot of snippy and mean comments from so-called Christians. Make your points, but do it in a way that honors Christ. That means be polite.

IJ agree with her idea that we should not label by sexuality as our culture has taught us. But other than that she attempts to creat an enviorment that will never exist.
Why? Because their is no Evangelical church where hertersexuals or gay people are living "celabet" lives.
And if they both desire to get married (rather than burn in Lust),then that changes the game from the church's view does'nt it? Her explanation sounds like "dont ask don't tell" to Me.

PS: to the writer who said Homosexuality should be treated as the sin it is. I guess that means since Jesus forgave all the hetersexual people their adultry, and sleeping before marriage as is the practice for most young christians today (with few exceptions). then we ought to forgive too?

@Dan: "God loves us with an everlasting love and He always accepts us the way we are, yet He never leaves us the way He finds us. He radically changes us from the inside (our heart) out."

Why say this when you believe that we must first change ourselves... that God does not accept us as we are ("But He won't fellowship with us while we are living in sin")?

Here ya go Jim-bo 731:

http://www.billygraham.org/assets/media/specialsections/touchonelife/Printer-FriendlyStepstoPeacewithGod.pdf (To see the illustration that accompanies the following explanation you have to go to the web site.)

STEPS TO PEACE WITH GOD
1. God’s Plan—Peace and Life
God loves you and wants you to experience His peace and life.
The BIBLE says: “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

2. Our Problem—Separation
Being at peace with God is not automatic, because by nature you are separated from God.
The BIBLE says: “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

3. God’s Remedy—The Cross
God’s love bridges the gap of separation between God and you. When Jesus Christ died on the cross and rose from the grave, He paid the penalty for your sins.
The BIBLE says: “He personally carried the load of our sins in his own body when he died on the cross” (1 Peter 2:24, TLB).

4. Our Response—Receive Christ
You cross the bridge into God’s family when you receive Christ by personal invitation.
The BIBLE says: “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name” (John 1:12).

To receive Christ you need to do four things:
1. ADMIT your spiritual need. “I am a sinner.”
2. REPENT and be willing to turn from your sin.
3. BELIEVE that Jesus Christ died for you on the cross.
4. RECEIVE, through prayer, Jesus Christ into your heart and life.
CHRIST says, “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in” (Revelation 3:20).
The BIBLE says, “Whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved” (Romans 10:13).

What to Pray:
Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner and need Your forgiveness. I believe that You died for my
sins. I want to turn from my sins. I now invite You to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and
follow You as Lord and Savior. In Jesus’ name, Amen.

(I just love the copy/paste function on computers. Is it great or what?)

Dan, you seem to be one of those Christians who believe that "we can do nothing to save ourselves," but who then lists all the things we must do to save ourselves. I appreciate your passion but you apparently miss the hypocrisy of your claims.

Since you quoted John 1:12, have you read the verse that follows it?

John 1:13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God.

1 Cor. 12:3 ... no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit.

We are not reborn by a choice on our part, but by a choice on God's part. You want to take the credit for "receiving" Christ but refuse to acknowledge that it is only through God's actions that we come to believe -- His gift of faith, and thus His gift of salvation.

You have very nicely copied and pasted the rules of religion, but have you kneeled in awe of the Son of God who came to destroy them?

Peace to you my friend.

Barbara, hi!

"Randy, you'd be a little more believable if you didn't have things like your warped parades, where you show you definitely are NOT like the rest of us."

You mean the gay pride parades which--in major cities, at least--attract very large and overwhelmingly _heterosexual_ audiences? (That last bit alone suggests that, yes, quite a few heterosexuals do like Pride parades.) And you also know most gays do not go to pride parades, right?

"You'd be more believable if you and your friends hadn't already pushed for signed legislation in California to have in all it's textbooks (and because California buys so many textbooks, they'll also be in other states books) the "history of the gay movement"."

Would you oppose history textbooks mentioning the history of the civil rights movement? Same deal.

"So, please give us a break when you say that you wish it were treated no more differently than handedness."

I do. Unfortunately, quite a few people don't want to do that. So, you need a fairly big movement to correct this.

"You could have remained silent and continued with your jobs just like homosexuals have for hundreds of years."

... and always have to be on guard, at risk of being found out and be made to suffer: losing your job or your home because an employer or landlord is repulsed at the idea of dealing with you, not being able to form a family at all or never enjoying a stable one, and so on. You know anti-gay discrimnation is common, right?

"When I apply for a job, I don't say, "Hi, I'm Barbara, and I'm heterosexual". You want to be able to say "Hi, I'm gay" and be given special privileges and rights."

Define "special". The ability to live openly, to not fear for your material subsistence and to be able to form families and not be constantly on guard from all kinds of persecution up to and including violent attacks, strikes me as a basic right.

"You want much more. I know in my lifetime you will be pushing for pedophilia because you will say it's wrong to "punish" people of certain ages to not be able to express their sexuality."

No, informed consent matters. As you could find out if you did basic research.

"If you wanted it to be treated no differently than handedness, you wouldn't have corrupted so many of our institutions, such as the military, churches, and our schools already."

Corrupted? How is wanting to be treated no differently from others on account of a minor difference corruption?

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