Hermenuetics

Comments

Very interesting timing. My new copy of The Atlantic came today. The cover bears a picture of a thirtysomething woman and the caption "What, Me Marry?" The article is called "All the Single Ladies" and addresses the current state of marriage in America, and how the institution has changed--and continues to change--in the west over the past several centuries, and especially the past 60 years.

I think this is a fascinating discussion and I'm very interested in what hermeneutics readers have to say on this topic.

(And I married a few weeks shy of 22. That was maybe the best decision I ever made, 11 years ago. Although I would appreciate a discussion here of the statistics showing marriages that occur at age 25 or later are more likely to be successful long-term.)

Posted By: Anne @ Modern Mrs Darcy | October 13, 2011 6:20 PM

I have to disagree with the statement that the desire of young people to be independent for a while is selfish. Some people are selfish in their single lives. But IT IS wise to finish a degree or training and be financially stable before getting married and bringing children into the world. This puts most people some where around 25 or 26. Which is not still quite young.
Life never turns out the way you think it will in your early 20s even when you have some one standing at the altar with you promising to love you and take care of you for the rest of your earthly lives. I have seen too many examples of young women who have married in the early 20s thinking that they were going to have the "traditional Christian family". Only to be divorced before age 30 with 2 to 4 kids, no education, and no job experience to fall back on. That equals no money and struggling for the rest of your life.
Think Bethany Patchin (Torode)
It is off topic from the article--but life time singleness and celibacy is a fanatastic gift from God that pastors should take the time to address from the pulpit. It's not for every one, but I think young people should know every possibility that God might have for their lives.

Posted By: Kara | October 13, 2011 7:38 PM

Wow. I don't know when I've both agreed and disagreed with an article so vehemently!

Regarding marrying early--absolutely! My husband and I married when I was 19 and he was 21, had our first baby when I was not quite 21, and four kids and fifteen years later, we've never looked back! All those dire predictions (from Christians and non-Christians alike) about us marrying too young never came to pass. Why delay marriage, the healthy manifestation of the natural, God-given urges that young adults seem to be following anyway? It's certainly preferable to cohabitation!

But all that stuff about the man making the first move and the girl "presenting herself" seems rather silly to me, to be honest. It's completely cultural, and has nothing to do with the Bible. Why not just be yourself, nurture healthy, authentic, God-honoring friendships with people of the opposite gender, and see what develops? If sparks begin to fly, both parties will catch on quickly enough.

And seriously? If a man feels intimidated by a woman who seems comfortable in her own skin, he still has a lot of growing up to do. So maybe he SHOULD wait a couple years--either that, or pluck up his courage and simply ask if she would be interested in getting to know each other better. It's not the girl's problem for being too secure, and to act needy to make a man feel important seems dishonest, silly, and destructive--hardly the right foot to start a relationship on.

Posted By: Jenny Rae Armstrong | October 13, 2011 7:49 PM

I was really pretty disgusted with most of this article the first time I read through it. I took a deep breath, a break and then read it again.

I still don't like it. But I'm not throwing things at my monitor.

The church is going to have to do a MUCH better job of growing young people into mature adults before young marriage is going to be successful. It's also going to have to do a lot of damage control from the last forty years of easy divorce and cheating spouses saying "God wants me to be happy, right?"

The WWII era "presenting yourself" for the guy to make the first move needs to say under the apple tree.

Posted By: TM | October 13, 2011 8:57 PM

The author of the book didn't address the reality that there are very few men in the church. I went to a church once where the singles group was all women who were overweight, seeing the same counselor, and on antidepressants. Any woman that has any hope for a future eventually goes outside the church to land a husband. I dated a couple *christian* guys - one was addicted to pornography (which he used openly and free of guilt) and the other one was just using me until he could be sure he could get accepted into school where he knew that he would eventually find someone better (i.e. thinner, younger, and prettier). The women in the church concluded that god must not have a husband planned for me since it was his *will* for my ex-boyfriend to treat me like ****. I gave up believing that god would ever richly provide a husband years ago. I don't even want to marry a christian after the experiences I've had with them.

Posted By: Anonymous | October 13, 2011 10:33 PM

This article is so awful it is frustrating.

What I learned from my parents and college was that "Patience and high standards are a virtues." Not that marriage was bad and should be avoided.

While there are no doubt some that are "single and selfish" the idea that most are is insulting. "Careful" would be a better term. We waited so that we wouldn't make youthful mistakes.

I do agree that people need to date and not just be eternal friends.

I take issue with marriage is normative. Maybe. Possibly. But marriage doesn't fulfill you. You can't find your identity in marriage. Only God can do that.

Sure, flirting is a good idea. But guys need to not be so easily intimidated.

My husband and I got married later. I am so glad we did. Most of my friends that the church pressured into getting married in order to avoid premarital sex are now divorced. It's a horrible painful thing for them - and what is the church saying to them now? "It was because you weren't mature enough for marriage." Young marriage has become an excuse to have sex and then a get out of marriage free card in the church. Yet its causing incredible, horrible pain to a lot of people that isn't necessary if the church would stop focusing so much on how hot their lust is and more on whether or not they are actually mature enough and stable enough to handle marriage.

The culture has changed! When will we realize that?

Posted By: Joy F | October 13, 2011 10:50 PM

In the early twenties, the emotional centers of the brain aren't fully mature yet. I think that's why post-25 marriages tend to be more successful than early marriages because both people are't mature yet.

Anonymous - I totally understand. A good Christian man is hard to find. On one hand, men aren't in church, and many of those that are believe that the Bible says that they're the boss and therefore use the Bible to boost their egos. All I can say is to have faith that Christ will provide for you.

Posted By: K. | October 14, 2011 12:30 AM

Oops! I meant to say that in post-25 marriages, both are more mature than they would have been if they had married earlier.

Posted By: K | October 14, 2011 12:34 AM

This is so frustrating for me to read. I have tried so hard to be responsible in the search, dating, as well as wait on God to orchestrate it all, and I'm now 30 and still nothing seems to work. It's so simple to say, "Go Marry, Young Man" but even after many failed relationships, there's nothing. I left a lucrative potential to serve God and I ended up with a ridiculously frustrating wait and broken bank account due to college and seminary. Everyone sees me as a failure for not being married in this town where everyone seems to be married and having kids at 20. I'm so frustrated. I don't know how much longer I can continue, as I am very much alone.

Posted By: Frustrated | October 14, 2011 12:46 AM

I am going to try and give Mr. Cunningham the benefit of the doubt. Surely he is not the flippant and arrogant man his answers suggest. Surely he does not mean to suggest that unless you are staying single in the service of Christ (as a nun, perhaps?) the only other motive is a selfish one. I have to say that based on his answers, I don't think i would be encouraged much by the marriage picture he presents. I honestly would not want a husband who 'pursued' me because I put out signals that I 'needed' a husband. Honestly, that tends to attract the ones who want to dominate....

Posted By: Katherine Gunn | October 14, 2011 2:33 AM

I agree many of his answers leave a bit to be desired. But I do think that we are in a society where we think we need more than we really do to get married. You don't need have everything in order to get married. But you do need realistic expectations. My parents married young (probably too young) and they were poor, moved a lot, worked to many hours, probably had children too quickly. I married at 24, still had two years of grad school but we were financially stable and fine.

I do think he is inappropriate to put much blame on women. Men tend to be less ready than women to marry. But I also think, as a guy with a number of single women friends, that some women's expectations are inappropriate. They want to get married, but their standards are misplaced. Not that they should have low standards about guys, I tend to think many of them already have too low of standards. It is just the priority of the standards I think are sometimes misplaced.

Posted By: Adam Shields | October 14, 2011 5:51 AM

"I’m not pushing the book on people who want to stay single and selfish"

*facepalm*

Really? Look, I'm currently seeing someone, and it's a young relationship, so I'm not a bitter single person here. But that said, this did not come easily. I didn't wade through my 20s as a single person buying the latest tech crap on Credit Cards, sitting in my basement playing XBox, and avoiding church and adult responsibility. I simply did not meet many single women who were prepared to date - and frankly the church and culture seem to encourage women to be eternally immature just as much as men. As Adam said, both men and women can have wildly unrealistic expectations, and at least the interviewer acknowledged this.

Look, if you're dating someone, think about getting married if you're 19 or 49. You'll never have enough money, a big enough apartment, all of your school debts paid, or have the other person figured out enough.

But please, enough of the shaming of single people. Not all of them are 2 years into a relationship making up excuses to avoid responsibility.

Posted By: David | October 14, 2011 8:38 AM

I read this article last night right before bed time. It was everything I could do not to cry myself to sleep. Honestly the author of this book should be absolutely thankful that he was no where near me last night because I don't think I could have had a Christian response.

Dear author of this book: Thanks again for making singles feel like pariahs! Thank you for again making us feel like failures. You, at home, with what I assume is a loving wife and children- of course you are going to say that marriage is "normal" - well I have news for you - when GOD HIMSELF has yet to introduce me to a husband how do you think that makes me, a single woman in my 30's feel when I'm told that "marriage is the standard" and that by my nature of my singleness I'm selfish! What the ^&@*&? I am purposely not learning your name because honestly - If we were to ever met I don't want my first reaction to be of anger.

And by the way - the health of the church does NOT ride on marriage! It rides on the independent relationship of each member with our God! It does not build the church - that's going out and making disciples of all the people of all the nations of the world!

You sir are wrong. Marriage is a gift. Singleness is a gift. There are things that only singles can do; there are things that only marrieds can do. You are purposely destroying a gift of God with your attitude and I assure you are chasing people away from your church and from God.

Posted By: Leslie | October 14, 2011 10:27 AM

A couple places in the answers really concern me:

That’s not enough; you have to go to a pro-marriage church. You have to be part of a community where the little boys are being challenged to become men.

This suggests that the way little boys are challenged to become men is by telling them real men get married. I can't find that in the Bible. And what a horrible message to send to those men (and women!) who are not married yet pursuing God with all their hearts.

But if I’m going to have to pick a message on Sunday morning and encourage something, I’m going to encourage marriage.

Really? If you have one message to preach it will be on encouraging marriage? That doesn't say much for a minister of the gospel. How about instead encouraging people to repent and trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior?

Here’s what young men tell me: They feel intimidated. A lot of young ladies put out an aura that they don’t need anybody.

Word choice means things. Referring to "young men" and then using the phrase "young ladies" instead of "young women" effectively and unnecessarily places these young women in a category separate from the young men. This is degrading (even if unintentional) and hinders the discussion of how to pursue God as we pursue relationships (romantic or not)with one another.

And I must say that I really appreciate David's point that people considering marriage should not try to wait until the have "enough money", etc. When a friend of mine decided to get married immediately after graduating college, I asked him how he knew it was the right time. He told me esentially the same thing David said, and concluded by saying that if people wait for the perfect time they will never get married.

That said, though, people also should not assume that any time is the right time. My wife and I met at 26 and married at 27. Earlier would not have been right. God has his timing, and "pro-marriage" churches and pastors who teach that marrying later is contrary to that timing are treading dangerous territory in shepherding the sheep entrusted to them as God's undershepheds.

God has blessings for all of us to pursue whatever our relationship status may be. That is the message we should be preaching and teaching to young and old alike.

Tim

Posted By: Anonymous | October 14, 2011 10:41 AM

I absolutely agree with the author about encouraging couples to marry young, if they are ready. We married young, four years ago, and we both agree it was the best decision of our lives. Even still, we both waited until we were done our degrees because it seemed like the "responsible" thing to do. Looking back, I have no idea why, and I have often wondered why we didn't marry earlier. There is way too much doom and gloom in our society about marriage.

The rest of the author's ideas, however, are too old-fashioned. And too critical of single people. I feel sorry for my single friends because mature adults are hard to come by these days, it seems - a lot of the good ones have been snatched up. If my husband hadn't come along, I don't think I ever would have found anybody yet.

Posted By: Nadine | October 14, 2011 10:45 AM

I want to echo the comment made by Andy Crouch on the original post by Ruth, linked at the beginning of this post.

I married at age 19 in my sophomore year of college because we had no reason to wait. My marriage--by the grace of God who has been at its center--has shaped, grown, and matured me far beyond what I would have done on my own during prolonged years of "independence."

My husband and I will celebrate our 27th wedding anniversary next year.

Posted By: Karen Swallow Prior | October 14, 2011 10:55 AM

I totally agree with the author on his point that it is good to marry young! I built my life with my wife as a result, instead of trying to build it independently on my own and then trying to bring our two separate lives together.

It doesn't sound to me like the author is all that old fashioned, nor does he sound like he's ripping on singles, rather, he's encouraging young people to consider marriage earlier rather than waiting until they're thirty years old to consider it.

In a lot of ways the idea of marriage is taboo at age 18, 19 or 20 these days, even in the church, especially to parents who want their kids to finish college first. What's up with that??

Posted By: Anonymous | October 14, 2011 11:58 AM

"But please, enough of the shaming of single people."

AMEN David!

Please, we singles need encouragement. We need to know that we're not freaks and that our desires ARE valid, but we also need encouragement to seek contentment in Christ alone where He has us NOW. We do not need platitudes and false hopes and ever-shifting and contradicting advice. We need to know that yes, sometimes God answers "Wait", but that "Wait" does not automatically mean, "'No', for now, but 'Yes' later," it might mean "Wait on Me now, I will definitively show you that my answer is 'No' later, but you're not able to handle it now," but regardless of what His answer is, it IS good, because He is GOOD. We need to know that it's OK to mourn our dashed dreams and disappointments because grief is not a sin!

Perhaps some of us do need a swift kick in the pants, and none of us need to be allowed to wallow in despair or idolatry. Honestly, though? Most of us are pretty darn broken in our singleness--we've dealt with years of deferred hopes and disappointment--tread lightly. Mostly we just need some non-patronizing encouragement and a chance to heal.

The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit. Psalm 34:18

Posted By: JR | October 14, 2011 12:10 PM

"Honestly, though? Most of us are pretty darn broken in our singleness--we've dealt with years of deferred hopes and disappointment--tread lightly. Mostly we just need some non-patronizing encouragement and a chance to heal."

AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN (and yes, I say that as I sit here crying).

Posted By: Leslie | October 14, 2011 1:10 PM

I agree with JR. Looking for a church that "encouraged" marriage was not an option for me when I was in my teens. My father was the pastor, and there were not that many decent mature boys in the congregation. Moreover, I was intellectually above them. I went to a fine Christian college, but did not find anyone there, either, although I was reasonably attractive and certainly looking at that point. God called me to ministry in my own right, and I just have never found many single men of my age that were also involved in ministry where God had called me. I am now nearing retirement age. God gave me no special "gift" of celibacy, but He has helped me to remain pure as well as single and reasonably happy.

There were many years of intense loneliness in my singleness and times when my hopes were crushed. There are just many more single Christian women around than single Christian men.

Posted By: ER | October 14, 2011 1:16 PM

Here we go again with yet another round of “bash the single males”. Kind of like the T-shirt that says “boys are stupid – kick them!”

Once again, we have a happily-married pastor preaching that if only the single males would “take initiative” everyone in church would be married tomorrow. As if single males are solely responsible for the crisis of singleness in the church. No mention whatsoever about the role of the typical single Christian woman, who insist on rejecting every male who is not the perfect prince accompanied by a choir of angels.

As a 40-year-old single male professional who has been saved by my Lord Jesus Christ decades ago, I have “taken the initiative” countless times with young Christian women throughout the years. Each and every time I have been rejected due to “lack of feeling” or something equally vague. Of all demographic groups in any church (I have been to many churches of all orientations throughout the years), it is always the young women who are the least hospitable to a single male like me. In contrast, as someone who owns a (thanks to God’s blessing) reasonably successful professional practise, I often attend after hours corporate networking events where I meet other professionals, many of them young women. These young women are warm, friendly and open to forming relationships. Quite a few of them have done much more volunteer work for secular charities/NGOs than the typical single Christian woman did for the church. A lot of them are nice young women of excellent and noble character. The one and only drawback is they tend not to know the difference between Jesus and Buddha and whoever the most popular spiritual guru is at the moment.

As I look at my 40th birthday in hindsight, I can’t help but wonder the wonderful life and family I could have had by marrying wise and caring non-Christian woman, had I not insisted on constantly hitting my head against the brick walls known as foolish and arrogant single Christian women.

Faith in Jesus Christ is not a prerequisite to having a happy marriage.

Posted By: 40-year-old virgin | October 14, 2011 2:04 PM

This post makes me ill. I married just shy of 27 and would have been happy to do so earlier if God had brought my husband and me together before then. As it was, however, I spent several years as a single Christian adult who was NOT single out of selfishness but rather because it was God's plan for me. The statement that marriage is normative and singleness is not is absurd. Not everyone gets married, but EVERYONE, for at least a short period of time, WILL be single. They are both completely normal, biblically-supported, states.

Cunningham is making an idol out of marriage.

Posted By: Kelly | October 14, 2011 3:34 PM

I sure agree with Kara. I sure don't want to read this book. It seems a bit silly. I do admit I am married, have been for going on 18 years. I met my husband in Africa when I wasn't looking for a husband. And then it happened. I think we need to learn to be content in living for Jesus and in God's time He'll bring the right one into your life.

Why do we worry so much about this stuff? God fulfills all our needs if we let Him, including a spouse. We so often think we need to take things into our hands like God can't handle it. He knows us better than we know ourselves.

And man, the sexiest thing is to see a person confident in themselves, in their faith in Christ, in where they are going. If a guy can't take that in a woman then he needs to grow up a bit. And if a woman can't take it in a man, then she too needs to do some soul searching first. Get confident in Jesus. Go places with Him. Then, He'll bring along a partner (or maybe in a different order, but seek Him and all these things will be added unto you).

Posted By: Jane Hinrichs | October 14, 2011 4:01 PM

Kelly wrote "Cunningham is making an idol out of marriage."

You hit the nail on the head, Kelly. Well done.

Tim

Posted By: Tim | October 14, 2011 4:14 PM

Kelly, thanks for summing it up so nicely....
"Cunningham is making an idol out of marriage."

Posted By: Katherine Gunn | October 14, 2011 5:36 PM

" ‘Present yourself’ would probably be a better way to say it than pursue. I don’t know too many guys who are into the rolled-out-of-bed look. Fix yourself up a little bit when you know you’re going to encounter a guy you’re interested in."

When I was dating my first-ever boyfriend (at the age of 25), an older female relative persistently told me that I needed to "fix [my]self up," put my hair up, wear skirts and make-up, etc. I told her, respectfully and patiently, every time, that I wasn't going to do anything differently. I am who I am—I'm not going to pretend I'm someone else to "catch" a man. That amounts to lying about who you are, and lies are nothing on which to build a meaningful relationship. I was going to be me—-makeup-less and all, with my plain and practical ponytail and sweaters—-even if that meant rejection, because why be with someone if they don't love YOU? This guy meant too much to me for me to introduce any dishonesty into the mix. We got married two years later and my husband's comment when these exchanges were brought up was that one of the reasons he picked me was that I was just myself.

Marriage is something more than a friendship, but it starts AS a friendship (or at least has an element of friendship within it). Those who pick their friends based on whether or not they have that "rolled-out-of-bed look," are probably not ready for generous and committed relationships with others, and the same goes for marriage partners.

My advice would be that the kind of person you are in dating is the kind of person your significant other is going to expect to marry. Don't lie about who you are or put on a false show that says you're somebody you're not. If you do, you'll either end up having to be somebody else for the rest of your life, or your spouse is going to wake up someday realizing that he was on the betrayal end of a bait-and-switch. Neither scenario is fair to anybody.

Posted By: Lark | October 14, 2011 7:06 PM

This all seems to me to be an example of a pastor pushing his personal opinions on everyone, as if they were a message from God-- because he thinks the pulpit gives him license to do so, no matter whom is hurt by his blanket statements and categorizations.

Sorry to sound harsh, but I think the pain expressed by some of the single people here warrants a plain-spoken response.

Posted By: KR Wordgazer | October 14, 2011 7:17 PM

"Here’s what young men tell me: They feel intimidated. A lot of young ladies put out an aura that they don’t need anybody. Put out those feelers that no, I enjoy your company. Give those cues, give those signs and present yourself."

"A lot of young ladies put out an aura that they don't need anybody," is rather an ambiguous statement. Are they behaving, in fact, as though they don't need help or community with other people, or are they acting sure and comfortable in their own abilities to manage in life without requiring others to carry them or relying on others to take care of everything for them? There's a big difference there: one displays arrogance, while the other is the product of confidence, maturity, and strength. The first needn't intimidate anyone—it’s just a weakness in disguise. The second need only intimidate those who lack those characteristics themselves, in which case the attraction to that woman is just an opportunity for growth. Implying women should be less strong and mature so that less confident men feel more comfortable is, in fact, doing the opposite of challenging them to "become men." Removing challenges doesn't make people stronger or more mature.

If men are to be given the exclusive right to "take initiative" than they should probably be at least as confident, mature, and strong as the women they're considering pursuing—that's the responsibility that comes with the right. In this paradigm the pressure shouldn't be on the woman to downplay herself—it should be on the man to "man up" to his responsibility. (Although, personally, I don't understand why we should put such a burden on men; women are just as capable of coming out and telling someone of the opposite sex that they're interested in them as men are. And if women should defer that ability because the male ego is too fragile to be preempted, then I would bring the same argument into play.)

And I apologize for the double-post back there.

Posted By: Lark | October 14, 2011 7:18 PM

While it is true that the culture encourages perpetual immaturity, I think it's wrong to assume that anyone who is above the age of 25 and still is single is in such a state because they lack initiative or are selfish. That's painting the issue with too broad a brush.

I find the comment about marriages being what builds the Church baffling. People should get married so they have children so there are more Christians who go on to get married and have babies so there are more Christians? I'm sorry, but the Church isn't built that way. I know far too many people who were raised in faith-filled homes who don't follow Christ today.

Indeed, Kelly, Cunningham has made an idol of marriage.

Posted By: Marie | October 14, 2011 9:31 PM

"God fulfills all our needs if we let Him, including a spouse." - Jane Hinrichs

What Jane is pretty much saying is that everything happens according to god's will. I grew up in an abusive home. My mother beat my self-esteem into the ground every single day. As a result I had primarily abusive relationships with both friends and boyfriends all the way through my late 20's. After a christian boyfriend slapped me across the face, I stopped dating. That was 7 years ago, and now I'm almost 35 years old, single (of course) and probably already infertile. And god planned all of this to happen to me in accordance with his perfect timing, perfect will, and perfect plan. God actually WANTED my mother to abuse me. To this day, my mother uses the fact that I will never be able to land a husband and have children against me - it's the ammunition god has provided for her to hurt me. If god didn't want my mother to abuse me, then it simply wouldn't have happened. He would have provided a loving and supportive mother to build up my self-esteem and prepare me for a life of loving relationships. But he didn't want me to be able to get a husband or have children. He wanted me to be alone and be ridiculed by both my mother and the married christian women in the church.

Posted By: Anon | October 14, 2011 11:33 PM

Anon, I'm writing this and trying to be helpful and non-judgmental. I grew up in a home with two violent, alcoholic parents, and I was physically beaten with the belt many times by both parents, emotionally hurt very much, never loved by my mother, etc, etc. But I learned about Jesus at a very young age and truly believed in Him and that He would someday return for me. I guess my point from experience and having two siblings who also lived under these conditions is, that if you choose to be angry and bitter, it only hurts you, it doesn't hurt your mother at all. If you have to separate yourself from her, then do that. I did my best to stay on good terms until my parents passed away, but I stopped letting them hurt me when I was an adult. Sometimes the most I could do was call occasionally and see my parents on the holidays. But it is much healthier and better for you if you can find it in your heart (through prayer and reading the Bible), to somehow forgive your mother and let go of the anger. Perhaps you can talk about what you have gone through with other people who have gone through similar childhoods, that was helpful for me. It's not an easy thing to do, but for your own emotional health, you are far better off to forgive and go on with your life without being bitter. Being bitter only hurts you and makes you depressed and angry, which others can easily pick up on as well. Jesus can truly heal you if you allow Him to. One of my siblings is a Christian too, and is healed, and the other one is not a Christian and remains bitter. I am not and cannot judge you, but just saying that prayer to God to take away the hurt and the anger truly worked for me and I feel very blessed by God, and am truly happy.

Posted By: Sheryl | October 15, 2011 12:09 AM

Anon, my heart goes out to you. I agree with you-- that quote is wrong. A lot of things happen in this world that have nothing whatsoever to do with God's will. We Christians aren't nearly careful enough what we so blithely say, without regard to people's pain. So sorry.

Posted By: KR Wordgazer | October 15, 2011 12:25 AM

Anon...I understand. I was abused by my 'godly' parents...and molested (not by them) repeated throughout my childhood, starting when I was 2. And I have been told that all of that was God ordained. Bluntly, that is bulls***. The people that abused me are the sole ones responsible for their actions. The devil did not make them do it (tho he may have suggested) and God certainly did not make them do it. They, with their very own free will, chose to do it. Period. To be blunt again, when I was told that it was 'God's plan', I had a conversation with Him and told Him that if He was behind what was done to me, He was a bastard undeserving of worship. He agreed. And, of course, none of that was His will. And those who think that by telling a victim of abuse that 'God works in mysterious ways' and 'all things are in God's plan', they are 'helping', need to get real.

Deep breath...okay, end of rant.

Posted By: Katherine Gunn | October 15, 2011 1:32 AM

Dear Ted, if you have a great marriage, congratulations, but thank God you aren't my pastor. Your generalizations and lack of sensitivity are appalling. Food for thought: rather than basking in the perks of their selfishness, the single women in your church might be waiting for men who love them for who they and who can appreciate their independence and intelligence. For some of the them, contentment might be a battle when the wait seems interminable. But, no doubt, they appreciate your blaming them for their own loneliness in the meantime.

Posted By: Anon2 | October 15, 2011 1:37 AM

Sometimes 'marrying young' is a guise for encouraging young people to find a outlet for sexual expression first. It's really not about seeking Christ first then marriage and His will for a persons life. Sexualization in the culture is hard so go ahead and marry.Alot of it has crept in the church so I think alot of pastors feel this might be the solution.And if two people really don't know any better it proably is for most but not all. Those who have the theology to wait should...God won't disapoint them.

Posted By: Anna | October 15, 2011 7:20 PM

I like the model that my own church uses better. Marriage is seen as a sacred covenant agreement between not just a man and woman but between their families as well. The people in my church just don't date around and get married young to avoid falling into sin. They "court" for the purpose of marriage (betrothal is the actual term), not because they had a lustful attraction that needed to be kept in check. Also, there is usually a betrothal ceremony where the couple agrees to be exclusive for the express end result of marriage. The betrothals are also not for a long period of time (months instead of years). However, the betrothal is a covenant between two people who are able to provide for each others needs in spiritual, emotional, physical and financial means. That doesn't exactly describe two teenagers in love. Teenagers in my church are not allowed to just date around and create soul-ties, which is what love does—it creates a soul-tie between two people. So, you are probably wondering, "do complete strangers meet and marry at my church?" Well, they are not exactly strangers because they are friends first. Once romantic feelings come into play, there is a betrothal ceremony (initialed by the father and his son), so that the couple can learn about each other. The marriage and celebration phase comes after the families (usually the groom's father) feel that they are both ready to live on their own. It's a very old-fashioned model, but that's because its from the Bible. So describing young people who are not married as selfish, is unfair and unBiblical—if these people are staying pure until marriage, then they are following God's model for marriage.

(I did not meet and marry my husband until I was 33. Not because I was unwilling or selfish, but because I allowed God to bring this man into my life without me doing the pursuing.)

Posted By: Debbie | October 16, 2011 7:50 AM

I have heard a lot about the betrothal model. The problem I have with it is that the Bible never says anywhere that this model is God's plan or God's best-- it is simply one of the ways the Bible shows people getting married. The Bible also shows men going out and capturing women and forcefully marrying them. It also shows someone sending a servant back to his home town to bring back a bride for his son. None of these are shown as God's plan for marriage-- they are simply shown. All of these models come from cultures in which women were viewed as property. But under the New Covenant kingdom of God which Christ inaugurated, we are no longer to view anyone according to the flesh. (2 Cor 5). My experience with the way betrothal models are usually worked out in modern churches, is that they there is a strong tendency to view the woman as something to be given by her father to the groom, rather than a full human being, a sister in Christ, able to make her own choices. When Paul addresses both men and women about marriage in 1 Cor. 7, he indicates that women, just like men, are to make their own decisions about marriage-- an idea that was radical for his time. Paul doesn't say anything in 1 Cor 7 about adhering to the then-standard cultural practice of betrothal. Paul says nothing about fathers being, or needing to be, involved in their children's decisions to marry.

Posted By: KR Wordgazer | October 16, 2011 5:31 PM

KR Wordgazer--

Although I would actually agree with your conclusions (rather emphatically!), I would point out that 1 Corinthians 7:36-38, in a larger passage on marriage by Paul, is all about whether or not it's better for a man to give his daughter in marriage or keep her as an unmarried virgin, with no reference to the will of the daughter that I can find. I'm not aware, though, whether or not there are alternative readings of that passage. My translation does note that the word "daughter" doesn't actually appear in those verses; it just says "virgin." I guess that might affect the meaning somehow. I don't speak Greek and I'm not a Corinthians expert!

Posted By: Lark | October 16, 2011 9:51 PM

Wow...I am a 36 year old, single female. I want nothing more than to get married and have a family. After my last birthday I think I cried everyday for two months because I realized that might not happen (at least the having kids part). I've been in plenty of great relationships with wonderful men who were truely following Christ, the problem was we weren't right for each other. Getting married, just to get married (or just to have sex) would have been selfish, if you ask me.

There are times where I have been standoffish and acted like I could do it myself, mainly because I've had to do a lot by myself. Sometimes it's my defense mechanism because my heart can't take much more. I am very girly, I love to wear dresses and do almost every day. I don't do it to "present myself." I don't think that has anything to do with attracting or not attracting a man. I want someone to love me for who I am, not that I'm wearing a dress and put makeup on that day. I am who I am. I feel better in a dress. If I felt better in jeans and a t-shrit, that's what I'd be weaing.

I admit, there are times when I probably am a bit selfish, but I don't think that has anything to do with being single. I have married friends that are plenty selfish, it's called human nature. Also, most of my married friends didn't get married to be in "service to Christ". I spent most of my 20s & 30s working in ministry full time. I serve at my church in so many different ways. (Not to say that if you aren't in full time ministry you are selfish). In many ways, I have served more than my married friends because I had more time. The way I see it, we are all doing important work.

Singles in the church (or at least the ones I know)have a ton of fun but on some level we always feel like we don't measure up, that we are not normal in some way. Thank you Mr. Cunningham for making us feel that way again, and for writing a book about it. I don't think I've ever seen a book about us being abnormal.

As the body of Chirst I thought that we were suppose to lift each other up and be an encouragement. All I've seen is that you've made quite a few people cry. I think that as I follow God's plan for my life I am in God's perfect will. If that means I get married, then I get married. If that means I don't get marreid, I guess God has something better for my life. I will choose to serve him no matter what and I will take every opportunity He throws my way.

Posted By: RM | October 17, 2011 3:08 AM

I think he probably has a good message which was presented poorly: single people certainly should not be shamed! But at the sane time, we do live in a culture that pretty clearly sends the message that you shouldn't even bother getting married-even if you're in a long-term committed relationship-until at least after college. As a result, most of the couples I know either 1.) lived as if married until after college, then got married after as many as 8 years of dating 2.) got pregnant and had shotgun weddings, or 3.) didn't consider anyone they were dating as a potential spouse until about junior year of college.
For some of those people who feel they are ready to commit, hearing the message that it's okay to marry young, and possibly better not that singleness but than arbitrarily waiting to reach an age approved of by their parents and professors-could be a huge blessing.

Posted By: Anonymous | October 17, 2011 9:06 AM

Seem like Marriage is being idolitarized at some church in Mo. "Singles welcome there.....but only for a while".

Posted By: Basil | October 17, 2011 10:36 AM

BTW This leads to wonder which phrase would be better? Family Church or Church Family? Random digression there.

Posted By: Basil | October 17, 2011 10:56 AM

Lark said:

"I would point out that 1 Corinthians 7:36-38, in a larger passage on marriage by Paul, is all about whether or not it's better for a man to give his daughter in marriage or keep her as an unmarried virgin, with no reference to the will of the daughter that I can find. I'm not aware, though, whether or not there are alternative readings of that passage. My translation does note that the word "daughter" doesn't actually appear in those verses; it just says "virgin." I guess that might affect the meaning somehow."

Actually, the words "his virgin" can just as easily mean "the virgin he is betrothed to." In fact, in light of Paul's words about "acting improperly towards her," this is much more likely to be the sense of the verse. Would Paul really say, "If you're acting improperly towards your virgin daughter, marry her off; you aren't sinning"?!

Many translations, including the NIV, do render "your virgin" as "the virgin you are engaged to."

But if you look at verses 28, 32, and 39-40, all of these mention women getting married, or choosing not to marry, without reference to the will of their fathers. This was a departure from cultural norms, and it was women exercising their choice to remain unmarried, against Roman law, that resulted in the "virgin martyrs."

Posted By: KR Wordgazer | October 17, 2011 11:21 AM

The early church fathers would be shocked that "we don’t want the message getting out there to young people that singleness is better than marriage." Although they affirm the goodness of marriage (and its reality as the institution in which most Christians will participate), they were more than happy to affirm with Paul the important place and calling of singleness. Marriage is good, but so is singleness--in fact, so say many of our ancestors-in-faith, even better. (And, for the record, I'm not single but have been happily married since 21, lest anyone think I'm only defending singleness because it is my own state.)

Posted By: Sandy | October 17, 2011 12:52 PM

What surprises me is the lack of outreach to singles outside of the churches as well as the disdain for those inside when so much of the population today is single. One would think the churches would be jumping at the bit to reach this group.

Has Mr. Cunningham ever considered that maybe God has instructed some of us to wait? Even when we don't want to?

Posted By: Over 30 single | October 17, 2011 4:04 PM

Also, as has been stated several times, there are simply fewer single men in the churches than single women. No commentary on the characters of the single men who are there, we can all add.

Mr. Cunningham, why don't you begin by praying for the singles in your community and for the future marriages in the church whether they begin at age 19 or age 50? Do you actually interact with any older singles or are you one to only associate with others within your own demographic?

I have found that the churches tend toward two extremes with singles: either suck it up and accept that God wants you to be single or you're too picky (immature, selfish, pick your vice). Why must everything be so black and white? Why can't people and situations be more nuanced? Why can't God have a hand in it?

BTW, I went to a Christian University and the ONLY time I was asked out there was by a guy who wasn't a student and worked in the cafeteria.

Posted By: Over 30 single | October 17, 2011 4:53 PM

Well, isn't this interesting. I agree on the admonitions for marrying young instead of delaying it indefinitely because of X, Y, and Z. I also think he's right to encourage men to take initiative, and for girls to care about how they look.

However, I disagree with beating up on men and blaming them for everything wrong, a common malady of the modern American church, and the parts on singleness. I am a 23 year-old male and single. I would love to get married and start a family, but I haven't had any opportunities. Now I live (and attend church) in Japan so my situation is a little unusual, but prior to coming here I lived in the US and tried to go to many college ministries and other young adult church events over the years.

In church, I hadn't met an appealing girl since I was in 10th grade. I'll be blunt: most of them were overweight, unhealthy, made no effort to appear the least bit attractive, and didn't have much to commend themselves in the personality department, either, often reeking of feminist you-go-girl propaganda and generally un-feminine behavior. It's easy to complain about how nobody in the church wants to date you, but perhaps some of those ladies should take a step back and work on making themselves better people in order to attract the sort of person they want to date. The same goes for men, as well.

For me, the problem is that there aren't many Christian girls around, and most of them in church are much older than myself. The temptation to look outside of the church for dating options is constant, and I can understand why it would be a probably for many young men in America, as well.

Posted By: Kyle | October 17, 2011 7:47 PM

I think (hope) that the argument of this book isn't that marriage is better than singleness and singles are doing something wrong. I think/hope that the argument of this book is that it's better to get married when you feel God calling you to rather than arbitrarily waiting until after college/grad school/whatever because that's when your professor and your aunts think would be the most appropriate time to do so. And that is a message many young Christians do need to hear.

I completely agree though that this author needs to work on not degrading and alienating singles who would love to be married someday if they meet the right person and fall in love, but instead make it clear that he is arguing against co-habitation and dating for unnaturally long amounts of time just because you feel societal pressure to wait until a certain age to marry.

Posted By: Crunchy Con Mommy | October 17, 2011 10:33 PM

I think what we need are fewer articles telling us that all Christians should get married young, fewer articles telling us that all Christians should wait to marry, and more articles about helping Christians discern whether it is God's will for them to marry young or to wait or not marry at all, and what his purposes are for each path. I truly believe it is different for each person and every time a spiritual leader tries to make sincere believers who want to follow God's will believe there is one "right" way, it alienates the Christians who are not on that path and encourages pride in those who are. Why can't we all just support each other wherever we happen to be in God's plans for our individual lives? I also see a lot of family ministries as others have alluded to, that seem to place children and the traditional family in a higher position than Christ himself, and I would love to see more discussion about that.

Posted By: Julia | October 17, 2011 11:09 PM

". . . didn't have much to commend themselves in the personality department, either, often reeking of feminist you-go-girl propaganda and generally un-feminine behavior"

I'm glad the man I married didn't think like this. He's still happy with me too after 23 years, despite my having a you-go-girl attitude. He wants a strong friend and companion, and he doesn't think it's unfeminine of me to take the initiative from time to time. Since when did the Bible say a woman shouldn't? Abigail was a strong, capable woman who took the initiative to protect her household, and was praised for it.

Posted By: KR Wordgazer | October 17, 2011 11:56 PM

Overall, I think that articles/books like this are a symptom of a greater problem. The church is no longer walking with people in true community and fellowship.

To paraphrase the designer Tom Ford, [One size fits all, doesn't fit anyone particularly well.] The unique situation about Christian circles is that you have people with a wide range of circumstances-from the 30 year old who's never been kissed to the 20 something who's had a variety of sexual experience (and then a continuum of everything in between). Wide sweeping generalizations and advice without knowing the individuals involved can do more harm than good.

In addition on an anecdotal level, as a 33 year old Christian single, I don't know of any woman within my circle of friends who has delayed marriage so that she can focus solely on her personal goals (career, etc.). Most of the women that I know are either 1) not being pursued at all or are not being pursued by Christian men or 2) have met someone but it became clear that the person they were dating was not a good fit.

That's my 2 cents.

Posted By: Chrissy | October 18, 2011 12:06 AM

Ted Cunningham, your judgemental words were the last straw. I am 22--going on 23--and have attempted to go out with a woman my age--any woman--without any success. This tragedy is rooted in my lifelong "war story."

2011 marks the 20th anniversary of my diagnosis with autism, which at first had little bearing on my dealings with the opposite sex. In fact, after my diagnosis had been revised to a very high-functioning form of autism called Asperger's Syndrome, I was on the best terms of my life with girls and the opposite sex in general. Instead of plaguing me from day one, my trouble with girls didn't begin until third grade, when the girls started to do better on in-class activities than boys like me. I was suspended repeatedly for my vitriol towards girls and continued to betray suspicion of girls through junior year of high school.

The last five years, if anything, have been a process of slow and painful healing. On the one hand, while vitriol toward my female peers has flared up briefly in my college career, it has been much more intermittent and is well on its way to disappearing altogether. On the other hand, the damage my spirit sustained during the years of more consistent vitriol towards girls may be as irrevocable as my Asperger's itself. Too often, I have desired to see some of my female friends, only to be rebuffed on the grounds that they already have a boyfriend. Is it too late for me?

The closest I have come to taking a female peer on an outing was this past April. I desired to take a female friend to the spring game at the University of Minnesota, where I am currently a student. I wouldn't have called that event a date, but merely an outing that could have led to outright dating. Fate, however, had other plans, as she works at a bar in downtown Minneapolis every weekend during Twins baseball season. As the spring game happens to coincide with the fourth weekend or the MLB season or so, that plan fell through.

This past January, I joined a group of fellow Aspie adults and the social experiences in that group have been uplifting; but as most of the group are substantially older than I am--and employed or even retired by now--I have yet to find any girl who would be interested in me, save for the one example above; and even in that case, she has already graduated and moved on.

I don't think my struggles are entirely tied to my disability, but shame on you, Ted Cunningham, for assuming that everybody should marry before age 30 or even age 25.

Posted By: Edward Genereux, MST3K fanatic | October 18, 2011 9:32 AM

KR Wordgazer--Thanks! I've always wondered about that passage. It's always nice to be aware of alternative interpretations.

About the whole issue of marriage in the church, it is really odd that the church pressures people so strongly to get married when the only lengthy passage I can think of that talks expressly about whether or not people should get married says that probably (in Paul's opinion anyway) it's better NOT to (in 1 Corinthians 7). I'm just sayin'. I know circumstances and what not have changed a lot since then, but it might-should give us pause before throwing marriage bombs at people.

Posted By: Lark | October 18, 2011 11:13 AM

To 40-year-old virgin - I think you should consider that people working in the same industry are going to have similar things in common and even similar traits which make them attracted to that profession in the first place. If you work with someone daily, it's going to be a different relationship than the once a week or so that you have with people from church. An after work cocktail party is going to lend to easier conversing than a Sunday morning church conversation with the yentas standing hopefully by.

Be careful in generalizing all Christian single women just because you haven't had any luck with them so far. There are lots of good men out there who aren't suitable for me but I'm not blaming them for my singlehood. It's just the way it goes sometimes. Christians don't have to have anything in common except Christ and you're probably running into women who fit that category.

Posted By: Anonymous | October 18, 2011 11:23 AM

Couples should get married when they are ready to commit to a lifetime covenant. Not before, regardless of age. Encouraging early marriage may lead to couples marrying who are immature, unready, and/or not compatible.

I know that if I had married my high school/college boyfriend of 4 years I would be miserable and/or divorced right now. I'd say that more than 50% of my 30-something peers who married in their teens and before the age of 22 are now divorced. Careful counsel from parents, friends, and spiritual mentors is vital before couples marry.

Posted By: Robyn | October 18, 2011 12:25 PM

The author says, "God gave it to us. It’s what keeps the human race moving; it’s what builds the church. It’s what models the gospel of Jesus."

I'm stunned. Could be he needs to review the Life and Times of Jesus Christ.

Posted By: Resi Arriot | October 18, 2011 5:31 PM

The one thing I have not seen in these comments is the perspective that perhaps the single women appear a little standoffish because they have experienced so much rejection, that they hardly dare to hope any more. I know that was the way I came across in my twenties. It seemed that I liked Christian men, but they did not like me. I'm sure the same is true of many men in a similar situation. The church would do better to remember that Jesus was all about healing.

I got married at 35, after God brought someone into my life that actually suited me. But I thank Him also for that time of singleness, because it allows me to relate to my single brothers and sisters. And just for the record, I was in a low paying, exhausting job at the time and at one point had chronic fatigue. Let's not assume that just because someone is single, they should be doing more for the church, either.

Posted By: Ann Phillips | October 18, 2011 7:15 PM

"The one thing I have not seen in these comments is the perspective that perhaps the single women appear a little standoffish because they have experienced so much rejection, that they hardly dare to hope any more."

Actually, I've heard that theme often in the comments in this thread, and they resonate with me in my own life's early experiences. Romantic rejection has an effect. Happily, acceptance from God has a greater effect.

Tim

Posted By: Tim | October 19, 2011 10:16 AM

I've been married for forty years, and I don't think the idea of marrying young is an unqualified great idea, as so much depends on the couple. Maturation is very important and can spare much grief. Counsel from parents, teachers, pastors, and counselors should be taken into consideration.

Growing up together can be a blessing too, and shaping our lives together can help us learn accommodation skills that hone and beautify our characters, though they may be painful on the way. It is important to recognize the lifelong commitment of marriage though, and when problems inevitably come, work to solve them in that context, rather than thinking that problems justify re-thinking that decision under all but the worst circumstances.

Another important consideration is chastity, as I see much emotional damage from the serial monogamy that happens in the single world today, even between Christians, because couple's hormones overcome their ideals when the marriage is put off for years. Our God-given sexual drives are very powerful, and as Paul says, "It is better to get married than to burn with lust." And outside of the commitment of marriage, there is no place for sex, according to the Word of God.

About the need for women to attract the attention of the men, beauty is something most people appreciate. I see no particular virtue in presenting oneself as an "old shoe" that is comfortable, but aesthetically unpleasing, just to be authentic. Most of us dress up for some occasions, and cosmetics enhance a woman's natural assets and minimize the imperfections that are the inevitable result of living in a world of sin.

The "old shoe" mentality ignores the self-respect engendered by a positive presentation; and a healthy, attractive mate also contributes to our self-esteem. So enhancing our appearance offers our best both to ourselves and to our mates, or potential mates, when we are single. Many women see no problem with cosmetics in public, but see no need to wear them at home. While it may not always be necessary, what does it say if we always present our best self to the world at large but look like something the cat dragged in for those we know and love best?

Choosing our attire with an eye to enhancing our best traits and minimizing the less attractive ones, even when choosing our most casual clothes, can and should be done.

That said, beauty is only skin deep and we must never lose sight of the fact that real beauty emanates from within, from the adornment of a gentle and Christ-like spirit. If we neglect the inner beauty, nothing we put on the outside can make up for this lack. So, inner beauty is the best and most important kind, but it doesn't preclude looking our best, for our mate or for a potential one.

Posted By: Rhonda | October 19, 2011 1:48 PM

"Since when did the Bible say a woman shouldn't? Abigail was a strong, capable woman who took the initiative to protect her household, and was praised for it."

There are many women in the Bible who could be described as strong or capable, but many of them do great things in a distinctly feminine way, not by aping male behavior as modern feminists seek to do. The Bible's equivalent of this would probably be a woman who thinks she should be doing Joab's job, for example. Instead we have people like Esther, Ruth, Rachel, and many others who make an impact as women, not by pretending to be men. Deborah, as a military leader, is probably the only one that feminists could reasonably count as being on 'their side.' The Bible says plenty about what women should be like - check the last chapter of Proverbs and plenty of passages in Paul's writing. It's very different from what feminists say.

The truth is, most men (especially ones who haven't been brainwashed by gynocentric modern western culture) don't care how assertive, independent, confident, and ambitious a woman is, and they don't care about her academic or career accomplishments. Men care if a girl is sweet, pretty, loving, and nurturing, for example. The things that attract men are not the same things that attract women, a key detail feminists have failed to realize. In short, it's a destructive and counter-productive philosophy with which Christian girls who are already struggling to find a mate need not unnecessarily shackle themselves.

I'd rather marry a girl who can cook delicious food and raise our children well than one with a BA and master's degree who has a high-paying job and oodles of "success." And no, don't tell me it's not an either-or situation, because it is: try to work your paper-pushing white-collar job, and your children will suffer for it.

Posted By: Kyle | October 19, 2011 7:14 PM

Kyle, please don't try to speak for men in general. I know too many godly men who fall far outside your description of the "typical" male desires. I don't know many who fall within it, although I'm sure (taking you as an example) that they exist.

Tim

Posted By: Tim | October 19, 2011 10:46 PM

Kyle.....My advice Look up Doc Brown and use his time machine DeLorean to get your self back to the 1950s. Best of luck! In the meantime please work on that quasi-misogynism. Years of disappointment in the years to come may make you full fledged woman hater.

Posted By: Basil | October 20, 2011 10:09 AM

Don't be too hard on Kyle. There are women who would LOVE to stay home and raise kids and be a homemaker, and some do. It is difficult to find a man who values these things enough to prepare for a career that can support the family. Many of both genders shrink from the sacrifice of many of the amenities of life and to accept a life more modest, rather than to allow the woman to stay home. Economics and financial obligations figure into this equation and are the hard realities of life that must be considered in this decision, of course. It is difficult the "have it all" and it is good to recognize your values ahead of time and plan accordingly so children can be raised by family instead of in daycare. This is not a time warp idea though. Entrusting our children to people who are paid a pittance and come and go regularly (daycare workers) seldom devotes enough to the stability and character-building that most Christians would like to see in their children, if they think about it.

Posted By: Rhonda | October 20, 2011 1:38 PM

Rhonda, I have no objection to women who want to stay home. I myself have only worked part-time ever since I had kids. But my husband and I did not want to raise our kids in poverty or have to take food stamps, and my staying home full time would have resulted in that. I'm no good at multi-tasking, so trying to make money from home while taking care of my kids, was not a good option for us.

You see, that's what I object to about Kyle's post. He implies that there's only one right way to be a woman, anyone who is different is unfeminine. He says a woman should be sweet, pretty, loving and nurturing, but not assertive, independent, confident or ambitious. He cites, among others, the Proverbs 31 woman as an example-- but there is nothing in that text about her being sweet or pretty; instead, it mentions her strength and dignity (v. 25). Also, she is certainly assertive, confident and ambitious to make linen garments and sell them to merchants(v. 24) and to consider a field and buy it (nothing mentioned here about consulting her husband, so she seems pretty independent as well) and to plant a vineyard from her own earnings.

My own husband would probably say I am sweet, loving, nurturing AND assertive and confident. Why am I only allowed half those traits, in Kyle's definition of proper womanhood?

In short, Kyle's words are unbiblical and deny women the fullness of human personality,, all the name of a shallow femininity that pleases male ego rather than Christ.

Posted By: KR Wordgazer | October 20, 2011 4:39 PM

Kyle - how many self proclaimed feminists do you actually know? Your description sounds like someone else's stereotype of independent minded women.

Posted By: Anonymous | October 20, 2011 5:20 PM

Why do so many pastors have the problem of being compassionless, controversial-for-no-reason, foot-in-their-mouths rock stars these days? Thank you Ted Cunningham, you have made up my mind in not ever going to your church in Branson.

This article is obviously written by someone who has never experienced the pain of prolonged wait. I hope God is merciful to you, Ted, but we need merciful people to help us as we sacrificially serve God and search for wives, sometimes less successfully than you obviously have accomplished.

Myopia.

Posted By: Anonymous | October 20, 2011 7:48 PM

Leslie and ER--yay! Like-minded folks :) Hope my ramblings were somehow encouraging. Lark, thank you SO much for "just being yourself". That's where I'm at and I am so sick of hearing people tell me that I need to "hussy it up" a bit (I wish I were exaggerating...).

No, I don't need to do that. I am clean, I am (mostly) neat, and I'm not wearing clothes from 1892 outside of an historical reenactment (which means not at all...history's not my thing). Rather, I bathe, I brush my teeth, wear deodorant, once and a blue moon will wear a bit of mascara and actually "do" my hair, and wear modern, modest clothing. Hussy and me do not belong in the same sentence, let alone paragraph. I wish people would stop shoving it down our throats like it's going to "cure" us.

Posted By: JR | October 21, 2011 4:02 PM

"Singleness is a gift."

Which unfortunately does not come with a warranty.

Posted By: jason taylor | October 21, 2011 4:36 PM

"A lot of young ladies put out an aura that they don’t need anybody. Put out those feelers that no, I enjoy your company. Give those cues, give those signs and present yourself. Those are just a few things, I don’t claim that’s my expertise but I think anything you can do to take down the walls of 'I’m living the fabulous single life, I don’t need a man' — I think a lot of people are taking those cues seriously and turning around and walking the other way. "

Please. Must American Christianity still be so naively influenced by secular culture? (romantic movies, dreams of five figure weddings, etc.) I let my male friends know I enjoy their company. They have (non-sexual) things to offer me that many of my female friends don't - they're raised to be tougher often times and are thus level-headed and good at calming me down when I need them. They're also funny and intelligent (traits I don't consider inherently deficient in women, but still not, for the most part, encouraged...). They know that they mean a lot to me, and I tell them they're great people. BUT they also know I'm not thinking of them as "potential husband" but as "insert name here," the unique individuals they are! What, besides sex, does marriage have to offer people that friendship doesn't? Of course, our standards for friendship are way too low, but that's a point for another time.

I'm not trying to dog marriage, but people don't need to be married or considered by their counterparts "marriage material" in order to feel worthy and loved by the opposite sex! Christians should particularly understand this... And this wouldn't be a problem if we weren't so obsessed with sex and marriage to begin with.... it's an option, a blessing; certainly not a necessity...

Posted By: Laura | October 21, 2011 9:33 PM

Ok, I'll bite. I'm a 29 year old male living in a vague, dull SouthEastern state. Currently dating a wonderful smart woman who is career-focused. But I'll tell you what scares me, and that is watching my peers.

ALMOST ALL of my male friends who are over 30 are either divorced and single or on their second marriage. Most of our parents have divorced. Marriage simply doesn't work out for a majority of people in America, and the thought of child support / alimony / heartbreak doesn't sit well with many of us younger men. The absolute last thing I want to do is pay a chunk of my income every month so another guy can raise my kids... A good number of my peers are currently of the mindset of bowing out of state-sponsored marriage and simply living together with the person we are committed to.

The short version is, we need to be "sold" that marriage is a good idea, since it obviously wasn't for our parents and so many people we know.

Posted By: Joe Chip | October 22, 2011 8:52 AM

Joe Chip, if my son came to me with the same concerns, I'd tell him marriage isn't easy and it never has been. It takes work every day by both parties. Get used to it. Then get married anyway, stick with it and put all your heart into it. When it gets so bad that you start to feel that it moght not still be worth the effort, lie down until the feeling goes away. Then get back to the daily work of loving your spouse. If that sounds too hard, then you're not grown up enough to get married.

At least, that's what I'd tell my son.

Tim

Posted By: Tim | October 22, 2011 12:13 PM

Tim, Your advice to Joe Chip is specious at best. Here's why - A bad or difficult marriage creates a tension filled home, a negative environment and unfortunately the children often believe it is due to something they did. There is an absence of love, but just a sense of duty for the parents staying together. it's a lose - lose situation.

Posted By: Jack | October 23, 2011 11:57 AM

Lidia, I agree with you and feel the same way. The article/interview itself is completely worthless, but the comments that real, honest Christians have posted here have been insightful and helpful. God can use something small-minded like Mr. Cunningham's opinions and let good things come from it. I have been reading the comment thread for awhile now and have seen older, Christian singles make wonderful points.

Posted By: Kara | October 23, 2011 12:36 PM

Jack, there's nothing specious about recognizing that marriages take work. That's all I was saying. Please don't read into it a full blown how-to manual for marriage.

Tim

Posted By: Tim | October 23, 2011 3:56 PM

This is the same Anonymous that responded to 40-year-old virgin.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that the support I get for being a single adult is at work among my married/single/Christian/non-believer colleagues. At church, I am criticized if I dare mention being single whether in a joking way or expressing any level of dissatisfaction (i.e. I'm bitter and depressed all of the time), constantly reminded how easy my life is because I don't have children (thoughtful comment to a woman in pre-menopause), am told that I don't have real adult problems if I look like I'm enjoying my life too much and told I'm too picky if I'm not interested in the too young/too short/too clingy/out-of-towner/gay/married guy they have picked out as the perfect man for me because obviously they've done their homework and I should just get married and shut up.

At work, married colleagues tell me I'm a great catch and they don't understand why I'm single or they tell me they don't know how I do everything alone and on one salary. They understand that it's okay to be disappointed and don't admonish me for actually having a feeling.

I'm generalizing here. There is a minority of individuals in the church who express support for us and I appreciate it, but it was some time ago that I realized I'd rather be at work than church.

Posted By: Anonymous | October 24, 2011 12:26 PM

I must admit I'm slightly offended. I'm 25 and single, and I work at a Christian bording school for Native American kids. We are in a fairly small town. I work with an excellent staff. However, there are about 7 single women under 40, and 1 single guy under 40. Yes, I go to church on Sundays, but my job does not allow a lot of time to get involved. (For over a year I was also in the dorm, and went with the students to church on Sundays. There's not a lot of time to look for a potential husband when you're responsible for between 8-16 kids during church.) I'm a teacher, but evening are filled with activites, lesson plans, meetings, Bible studies and other events on our campus. I love what I do and feel this is where God has called me. Does that make me selfish? When my students ask why I don't have kids of my own, I tell them that God has called me to love the kids in front of me (you know, them!). This is not just a random answer, but what I believe. I'm ok being single right now, and find contentment in where God has called me. Someday, I would love to get married and have children of my own. But my life is not wasted until that day comes.

Posted By: bethany | October 24, 2011 1:43 PM

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