Her.meneutics: We're Just Friends. No, Really

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« Exotic Animals and Kingdom Ethics | Main | 'Just' a Stay-at-Home Mom »

October 24, 2011

We're Just Friends. No, Really

Our culture - and church's - obsession with romance has crowded out the chance for real friendship between men and women.

Enuma Okoro

I was sitting at my friend Andrew’s dining table in the mid afternoon. I had stopped by to pick up a book I needed for a writing project and decided to stay and work with him a while. It was quiet and peaceful and he was bent intently over his work. I slipped slowly into the silence and wiggled my way into its corners. After a short spell I looked up at him from across our computer screens and said, “Tell me there’s nothing wrong with me.” I cupped one side of my face in my hand, smudging vulnerability like a shoddy makeup job.

“What do you mean?” he asked cautiously but tenderly.

“I mean, with Sam, not wanting... Tell me…”

He interrupted softly, “…that you’re not inadequate?”

I nodded and looked down at the keyboard where I knew the slow but open tears would soon land.

He spoke slowly. “I think you are beautiful. And I think you love people fiercely. That is an amazing gift.” I was both surprised and grateful that he hadn’t repeated his usual praise about my intellectual and creative gifts. Somehow he heard me speaking from that shier crevice of my heart, the one easily layered with “shoulds” and “ought tos,” the one whose fragile fractures are habitually hidden.

“I. Think. You. Are. Beautiful,” he repeated.

I nodded rapidly, still looking away as the tears came. “I know, I know,” I whispered. “I know.” I could feel his caramel colored eyes trying to stare these truths into my heart. I could feel how quickly I wanted to bypass his words because some part of me still struggled to hear it.

We sat quietly across the table from one another. I wept freely into the small cradle of comfort his words had carved for me. I knew he believed what he had told me and somehow I felt that seeping back into me as I cried. I felt alone and held all at once. Without moving from his side of the table, without touching me, without breaching the space of sorrow that could only rightfully be mine at that moment, I felt held and re-membered by his friendship in a matter of moments.

Andrew and I have been good friends for the past year. I am still growing into this sliver of space our friendship provides. We met when we were both single and immediately hit it off. We enjoy one another’s company intellectually and socially, and we both find the other physically attractive. Yet there was no assumption that our new and enriching acquaintance would lead to a romantic relationship. We simply spent several months getting to know one another through conversation and sharing activities together and with groups of mutual friends. Yes, we have since had some conversations around boundaries and expectations. We have had to, because neither of us has been well formed by our culture or Christian traditions to imagine healthy platonic relationship between two single people as good enough.

Many would look at our friendship and wonder why we aren't pursuing a romantic relationship. The truth is that sometimes, romantic relationships are all about timing and part of discernment is honoring what seems fitting for particular seasons of our lives. Andrew and I met when neither of us felt inclined to pursue romance for our own respective reasons. I have come to believe that platonic male-female friendships can be a life-giving, healthy corrective to our culture’s and churches’ overemphasis on romance.

This summer, the movie Friends with Benefits (Justin Timberlake, Mila Kunis) revisited the timeless question famously posed by When Harry Met Sally: Can a man and woman be “just” friends? Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal spend years trying to prove that they can have a platonic relationship. They sleep together, awkwardly pretend the sex never happened, and then eventually start dating. At the center of these movies is the premise that any good emotional connection between a single man and woman should evolve into a sexual relationship. It is not that different in churches and Christian youth culture, where most relationship discussions revolve around preparing for marriage, courtship dating, and abstinence. Rarely do Christian resources focus on the importance of cultivating friendships in general, let alone cross-gender ones. It’s no wonder that heterosexual men and women fumble over how to live into mutual life-giving and respectful non-sexual relationships with one another.

Desire is beautiful. No denying we are sexual beings, and intellectual and emotional attraction can easily lead to sexual attraction between friends. But being single and feeling something toward someone else who happens to be single does not mean that we should act on our desires. We each come with unique personal histories; sometimes it takes a while to figure out what lies behind certain desires. It may have little to do with the person in front of me and more to do with misdirecting specific unmet needs. Part of the conversation around nurturing male-female friendships has to include how we order and discipline our desires.

I believe my friendship with Andrew will have a positive impact on my next romantic relationship. But it is also beautiful for its own sake, without thought of its broader utility. He is teaching me to argue better, to share my discontent in less hurtful ways. I am learning that deepening our friendship means not shying away from difficult conversations. I cannot hide behind verbal jabs offered in pseudo jokes. He speaks forthrightly to me and mirrors his desire for me to be transparent, to say what I mean and to not couch my emotional needs in half-truths. I hear him and often still stifle in defense. It is risky to nurture the kind of friendship that compels us to reach out from our fears and insecurities. Friendship takes courage, even the ones that offer to reminds us of who we are, and who we are created to be.

As a culture we do not know very much about discipline. We assume that if something or someone is accessible to us, there is usually no good reason why we should not lay claim to it. We are not well trained in saying no. At different seasons in our lives, denying sexual desires in particular can open up space for a life-giving platonic friendship, as well as for new gifts and opportunities for growth.

Enuma Okoro was born in the United States and raised in Nigeria, Ivory Coast, and England. She holds a Master of Divinity from Duke Divinity School where she served as director for the Center for Theological Writing. The author of Reluctant Pilgrim and co-author of Common Prayer (with Shane Claiborne and Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove), Enuma lives in Raleigh, North Carolina. She blogs at EnumaOkoro.com.

Comments

Fantastic! It is refreshing to read this as well as daunting. You know, it never occurred to me until this moment (except in brief ignored moments of acknowledgment) that I miss male friendship! I've been married for eighteen years, happily. There is something about friendship with women that is so very different and I relished my male platonic friendships when I was single. I've got some thinking to do. Thanks for challenging me to think about "how to live into mutual life-giving and respectful non-sexual relationships with one another." Thank you.

Beautifully said, Enuma! And very, very true.

Poor Andrew.

What a heartfelt piece. Thanks for being so real and vulnerable on this topic. Friendship is an amazing gift that is often under appreciated.

I am very interested in this topic. Not sure I agree, but as always, your writing is beautiful and thought provoking.

Tyler, to say "poor Andrew" assumes that only Enuma wants a platonic relationship. She made it very clear that this is not the case, but that it is a mutual choice, clearly communicated and discussed.

Jesus had many friends who were women, and He did so in an age and culture where a man was not even supposed to talk to a woman in public-- not even if she was his wife! Our own culture is suffering because of the lack of real community, including friendships. If Christians are going to be counter-cultural in anything, here is one of the main areas where they should. Paul told Timothy to view the younger women as his sisters. Brothers and sisters are not supposed to be strangers.

On that future day when Miss Okoro joyfully informs Andrew that she has a new boyfriend, Andrew will be heartbroken and crushed inside. "I told her that she is beautiful," he will lament inside, "and I have been good friends with her for a long time, just as how I was advised to be. Why would she fall in love with someone she just met, instead of the man who has been by her side for over a year?"

Andrew, if you read this, ask Enuma out on a date now, before it's too late.

Emotional adultery.

YES. Thank you. Navigating the waters of (heterosexual) male-female friendship can be tricky, especially when there's such a shortage of examples, but I think it's absolutely worth the effort. As we are all image-bearers of God, I think having relationships with people different from ourselves, including people of the opposite sex, is an important part of working toward a fuller vision of God.

There might always be some undercurrent of eroticism in these sorts of relationships, and while that should absolutely move us to take care, I find it really demeaning to say that just because I'm attracted to someone means I'll be pulled against my will into a romantic/sexual relationship.

My apologies for the skepticism, but I have a difficult time believing that a relationship as close as the one described can stay mutually platonic.

I have a tight-knit community of people that I'm apart of. This includes women, who are dear friends of mine. I view them as sisters and are close to them, but I can't imagine placing myself consistently in one-on-one situations with them without ideas of romance being entertained. Perhaps this is possible for women to do, but I've yet to meet a guy like this.

Nick, neither of them are married, so I think "adultery" is a bit of a stretch. If they were and the friendship has no romantic aspect, then I think it still falls short of adultery.

But Alissa, you have hit the nail on the head in discerning these relationships: "Navigating the waters of (heterosexual) male-female friendship can be tricky." Yes it can. That doesn't mean God never intends us to have such friendships, but it does mean that they take a type of effort not called for in friendships with those of our own gender (which in turn take effort, but that's not the point here).

Tim

Thank you so much for this article - I'm tired of the trite answers about male-female friendship (that it has to be emotional adultery or headed toward worse). This was beautifully stated.

I wonder if you have heard of the book "Sacred Unions Sacred Passions" in it Dan Brennan argues for such friendships to have their place. I've never seen any book like it. You can get it on Amazon.

@ Nick: No. An intimate, platonic relationship between a man and a woman need no more be "emotional adultery" than an intimate, platonic relationship between a brother and sister need be "emotional incest."

One of my closest friends is a married man. I am a single woman, and one of the most beautiful gifts I have ever received was when his wife thanked me for all the ways my friendship with her husband has made him a better husband to her and enriched their marriage.

It is true that there are few models for us in the church today; and it is true that while no true friendship is easy, these have their own difficulties; and it is true that we are creatures vulnerable to sin; but to allow those truths to deny that goodness in such friendships is even possible is deny the redemptive and healing power the gospel can have in our lives today.

Thanks everyone for making time to read and comment. I'm really glad it's generating conversation. This is an important topic for building and sustaining healthy communities.
Tyler and "the other Andrew"- Andrew is just fine and thriving in his own new relationship. I adore his new girlfriend. I do hope both of you get to one day experience the gift and grace of non-sexualized cross-gender friendship. It's not always easy nor is it ever stagnant and fixed. But that does not make it impossible.
Nick- I'm not quite sure how to respond to your non-explanatory quip of "emotional adultery." You offer nothing substantial to which one might respond. I hope you find healthy venues to work through articulating the rest of your thoughts. Best, Enuma

Thank you for a very timely article. I think there are a few things to consider in male-female friendships. I got married at 38 and had a few close friendships with married men when I was single. It very definitely did not involve emotional adultery...I was connecting in a real and meaningful way with brothers in Christ, and there were no expectations on either part that the relationships would be anything else. The key here is expectations...I had no expectations that these relationships would ever involve a romantic connections. Friendships with unattached men were much different because it was extremely difficult to have no expectations. If I found them attractive as a friend, I would tend to find myself wanting more. And I spend a lot of time relating to the verse that said "hope deferred makes a heart sick." I think friendship between men and women is definitely possible, as long as neither have expectations of romance entering the mix. If either of them have these expectations, it's a whole different ball game.

Enuma, Great stuff!! I thank you deeply for identifying and recognizing the beauty of your friendship. We need to reclaim beauty from our sexualized culture which narrows beauty between men and women to romantic or marital love. As a married man who has two close beautiful friendships with single women, I stand with you in identifying beauty in friendship.

It is a common myth in our sexualized culture that beauty always leads to romance or sex between men and women. But there is beauty--a sexual beauty (sexual meaning here not in terms of steps toward erotic arousal but in embracing broader beauty of relating to each other as men and women in friendship love)--that draws to God's beauty in friendship and toward one another.

I have female friends. What is described above isn't having a friend of the opposite sex. Why would Harry and Sally come up?

This reads as a penny dreadful romance novel. I mean, "I slipped slowly into the silence and wiggled my way into its corners," isn't how I would describe hanging out with friends. Ever. In a million years.

This is emo-porn complete with soft lighting. One wonders what on earth it has to do, even vaguely, with Christianity. In fact there is a special eeriness where a Christian site would limit adultery to being only a married person acting with lack of chasteness. There is an ignorance there of Christian morals that is flat out astounding.

In fact, since we are ordered to be chaste, one has to wonder how the above description IS chaste. And lest the neophytes observe that nothing here violates chastity, we have to deal with Jesus words about _thinking_ about the _potential_ for adultery. Christian chasteness being a tough row to hoe.

Nick, I would ask you where would you find anything in the Bible (or in Jesus' words) that chastity is about emotional shallowness or lack of depth. Jesus himself identified his followers as brothers and sisters (Mark 3:34). Throughout history, many brothers and sisters have experienced deep emotional depth and bonding in their relationships.

So, I would push back on your definition of chaste. I don't think it's chaste to equate emotional bonding and depth in relationship between a man and woman ("brothers and sisters" in Christ) with lust.

Nicely written, Enuma. I believe the church has sometimes unintentionally reinforced the hypersexualization of our culture by fearfully suggesting that sexual and romantic tension has to be part of every male-female relationship. That has the effect of making our gender/sex essentially the sum of who were are, which, I believe, short-changes us as individuals and short-changes the possibilities for relationship, friendship, and the good things God wants us to pass on to each other.

Women do need male friends, and I suspect men need female friends. And if one person starts thinking romance and the other doesn't, honesty, grace, and Christ-centered love can take away a whole lot of the possible pain of such mismatch.

Although I understand what you are saying, and agree that we need better models for how to have male/female friendships, I think it changes once you get married. I do not think it's appropriate to have male friends without my husband. Now, I DO have male friends, but they are all also friends with my husband. I also wouldn't meet up with a male friend for coffee or to hang out without my husband, unless it had to do with business of some kind.

It's just plain tricky, in general. There are lots of emotions and lots of risks involved in this type of relationship. If you are both very open to communicate EVERYthing and are in the same boat, then sure. But I've also been in the type of friendship where one person thinks one thing is going on, and the other person has hopes -- even unrequited ones.

Maybe it's also my history. Personally, I was never able to be "just friends" with a guy -- either it would get confused on his end or my end or I would just plain be foolish about it. So when it came to being married, I made the boundaries very clear. No male friends without my husband.

Great point Sparrow. For married folk,if the friendship means meeting for coffee and doing other friend type stuff, without the spouse aware of what's happening, then I think the friendship is in dangerous territory.

Tim

I think evangelicals really short-sell platonic friendships between men and women - both when they are single and when they are married.

As a single woman, do I want to meet someone? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean I want to have solid friendships only with other women for the rest of my life.

I'm not saying it's not tricky, but I think the church is guilty of squashing relationships that could be beautiful friendships by acting like they are abnormal or even shameful.

For married people, nurturing a male-female close friendship with intentional transparency and mutuality with one's spouse is essential. I suggest one of the things we have to work through and discern is how our hyersexualized/romantic culture has so ransacked innocent activities for men and women to do as friends as signs of romantic coupling.

This is problematic somewhat for singles ("Oh, are you going together?") but more for those who want to claim a different path of beautiful for those who are married.

Beautiful, insightful post! Love this line (among so many others!): "As a culture we do not know very much about discipline. We assume that if something or someone is accessible to us, there is usually no good reason why we should not lay claim to it."

Great post!
I have a couple of good female friends, one of whom I would consider very close. Some observations. My wife always knows when I am going to meet with one of them. No, she doesn't have to be there, but she is aware.

Second, just because I might find someone attractive (or vice versa), does not translate into wanting to have a sexual encounter with them. One of the assumptions is that physical and/or emotional attraction necessarily translates into sex. No it doesn't.

Finally, having a deep, rich friendship with someone of the opposite sex can enhance your marriage as well. It's not really counter intuitive. Having friends expands your horizons and makes you a deeper person.

I'm a married woman who is very close firends with a man - we're both married to other people. Both of our spouses support our friendship. My friend and I dont live in the same city, so when we want to see each other, I travel out of state on a mini-vacation to go see him. I stay with him and his wife and fully enjoy connecting with his wife when I'm there. She and I have a friendship between ourselves that is special and meaningful all on its own. Buw when I'm there, I also want to do stuff alone with my friend. We do normal friend stuff - going out to eat, going to a concert or shopping, going hiking. Neither of our spouses are sitting at home worrying that something is going to happen. We're friends and that's not part of who we are. It's not an affair waiting to happen. Its not an emotional affair.

I have been so blessed by his wife's support of my friendship with her husband. She doenst look at me as a threat. I cant even begin to say how important that has been to me. I know that its hard for some people to see beyond the potential messiness, so I am glad for conversations like this where more and more people can see what's possible in friendship.

Amen Steve! And every other man and woman on board with this lovely, timely post. Christ's love is all we need - all other instances of love are extra gifts! It's very Christian to suggest to the world that we don't expect to gain anything cultural and/or sexual in our relationships with the opposite sex. A few of my friends find my apathy for romantic relationships pessimistic; I respond that I find their hopes for many close, meaningful platonic relationships pessimistic! I am single and do not in the least feel alone! There are SO MANY opportunities to love and share the gifts associated with being male/female outside the realms of dating/marriage. And I agree that with enough transparency and familiarity and trust from one's partner (I would hope there's enough trust for this in the average marriage!), this lifestyle and outlook is not limited to singles.

Again, @Nick, I'm sorry but I still have no idea where to begin to engage you in healthy dialogue. Your summary of this reflection as "emo-porn complete with soft lighting," and your unsubstantiated definitions of adultery and chastity preclude me from intelligent and thoughtful conversation with you. That is a shame because it might have led to growth for both of us. Best, Enuma

Again, I'm really glad these conversations are happening, and I thank all of you who have shown decorum and thoughtfulness in your responses regardless of where you fall within the argument.
@ Sparrow, I agree that the conversation might differ if one or both are married, but again that is stay open to the necessary conversations and boundaries for which different seasons of our lives call. Relationships of any kind require intentionality to work and thrive. I personally am not yet convicted that when married I would not have male friends without my husband present. One's life experiences and history really have to factor into how that decision is made. Since I do not know your life history I can only honor your thoughts and hope this arrangement is nourishing and life-giving for all involved. For what it's worth I've always considered it important to try and befriend the significant other of male friends I may have. It's part of simply extending my love and rejoicing in that part of his life with him.
This is not to say I've never experienced challenges in male-female friendships where feelings grow and have to be addressed from either side. But those experiences do not negate the possibility of healthy heterosexual cross-gender friendships.

I used to be one who said that after marriage, opposite-sex friendships were off-limits, risky, and asking for trouble. For the last 14 years I've been awkward and stupid around men who wanted to be friends with me because while I liked them and we had much in common, I had determined it was wrong simply on the basis of genitals. That's sad. It's sad that I didn't trust myself; that I didn't believe in the trust my husband has placed in me (the day we got married); the trust I could have placed in potential friends.

Why assume infidelity? Why assume scandal? Why do we not trust each other and ourselves?

And what are we losing because of our assumptions and fear?

Not sure why some Christians feel the need to heterosexualize every male-female interaction, but I suspect it has something to do with their inability to see the world in anything other than gender stereotypes of passive women who are the property of domineering men.

Personally, I'm not sure a single man and a single woman can remain friends only. This is not because we live in an over-sexualized culture. (Though we do.) It's because God created us to be in the emotionally and sexually intimate relationship of marriage. The desire for emotional intimacy described in this article, absent of the sexual intimacy which is the natural outcome, is the very definition of "wanting your cake and eating it too." Frankly, in the same way that men are tempted to pursue sexual intimacy outside of the emotional intimacy of marriage; women are tempted to pursue emotional intimacy outside of the sexual intimacy of marriage. It is for this reason, that in all my years of ministry, I have never seen a platonic relationship between a man and a woman remain purely platonic. One or both eventually develop feelings for the other and inevitably someone gets hurt. This is not a loving thing to do to your fellow brother/sister in Christ.

Besides all this though, I think it's best that we remember Paul's words: "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are best." Jesus was friends with multiple women. (Mary, Martha, Mary Magdalene) But with the exception of the woman at the well, we never see Jesus interacting with these women privately. To do so would have been scandalous and would have broken the Biblical principle of remaining above reproach. Instead, we always see him talking with these women in a group setting. (The dinner at the Pharisee's house, the meal at Mary and Martha's, etc.) I do have several female friends, but I would never, ever meet with them or even have private conversations with them over the phone, without my wife present. It's not that I'm simply unable to control myself sexually. It's not that I'm such an incredible catch that I worry the women will develop feelings for me. It is because I promised my wife and my church and my God that I would remain above reproach as a husband and pastor. And if you follow Christ, then you've made the same promise by accepting Him into your heart and living in such a way that He is Lord of it.

JASON

Jason,

A couple of questions...

1. I'm a married woman, and I have a very good reltaionship with my husband. it sounds like you're saying that I shouldnt want emotional intimacy with anyone else - not friends, not children, not siblings, not my family in Chirst. And yet, I have emotional intimacy with many people besides my husband. I'm not robbing my husband by doing that, I'm living a full life as God made me, which in turn blesses my husband.

2. Do you really think Jesus was all that worried about being above reproach? I'm thinking of the time when the woman was washing his feet. The other guests at the dinner sure seem to think that this looks bad for Jesus - that he shouldnt let a woman like that even touch him. But he does let her, and he defends her to the ones who are saying he should be worried about being above reproach.

3. In your last sentence you lump a lot of things together - it sounds like you're saying that anyone following Christ is required to have the same boundaries you need. But that just isnt true. I know that you said that you have never known a platonic situation to work out, but in the wider world, there are lots of examples of that. Your expereince is yours...but I wonder why you think its everyone's.

When I was dating my now husband he had a female friend he was good friends with and I was glad. She was very encouraging of our relationship and when he would talk to her about us she would have my back.
On the other side my best friend in college was a guy and the women who is he wife is now also my best friend.

I'm concerned by a few suggestions here that close friendship between two unmarried people, in particular, should be avoided because one might develop romantic feelings the other doesn't return and that would be painful. As though pain is the worst thing in the world and should be avoided at all costs. If we live a life of pain avoidance, then nearly every deep friendship and relationship would be off the table. We live in a sinful world. Relationships lived with depth at all will be painful, but I believe that's a lousy, unbiblical reason for avoiding substantive contact with others of any gender.

I also think we have a culture, even within the church, that often has a low view of friendship in general, and reserves commitment and being deeply known only for romantic relationships. Thus, people don't gain much practice at real commitment, at real sacrifice for others, at real honesty and love, and at other important friendship qualities outside of marriage, qualities that, if grown and practice, will help them practice them better within their marriages.

Additionally, a comment relevant to this conversation came up recently from a grad student in a book study I lead. We're studying Jenell Williams Paris' The End of Sexual Identity. This male student noted that men especially who are very committed to their male friends and verbalize their care and closeness can be seen as being "female" or weird or exhibiting suspect gay feelings. Again, an example of how we tend to unnecessarily and detrimentally try to suggest that close friendship and honest, sacrificial love must have some sort of sexual element to it.

Jennifer,

First, thank you for your polite response. Too often these kinds of forums turn ugly. That being said, let me respond to your questions.

1. I'm not saying that you can't have intimate relationships outside of marriage, but the intimate relationship described in this article is absolutely one that should exist only in marriage. The marriage relationship is a special, and unique relationship, and the kind of intimacy that should exist in a marriage is unique to that relationship. Seeking that kind of intimacy outside of marriage is wrong, in the same way that it's wrong to seek sexual intimacy/gratification outside of marriage. And if people do have these kinds of intimate relationships, (as described in this article) then I do believe they are robbing their spouse. Furthermore, even if you were able to have these kinds of intimate relationships without crossing biblical boundaries; I don't believe it would be wise to have them. Again, we're commanded in Scripture to remain above reproach.

2. I fully understand your response about Jesus being "worried." I agree that many of the things that Jesus did were scandalous for His day, just as many of the things we're asked to do, as believers, are scandalous for our day. (making claims about the exclusivity of God and His Word for instance) However, we cannot simply follow a WWJD mindset. Jesus did a lot of things we can't or shouldn't attempt to do. (walking on water comes to mind) We have to look at all of Scripture, not just the red letters, for guidance. And the broader scope of Scripture says that having these kinds of relationships outside of marriage is unwise and unbiblical. This kind of obedience isn't easy, and often times it means we have to lay aside our own freedom in order to achieve the greater good for the Gospel. But while this kind of obedience isn't necessarily easy, it is right. I think of Paul who says he'll stop eating meat entirely if it would cause people to stop fighting over meat sacrificed to idols, and instead refocus them on their mission of spreading the Gospel and being the Body of Christ.

3. In my last statement I'm not saying that people have to have the same boundaries as me in order to follow Christ. I am saying that the evidence that people are following Christ is when they are obedient to the Word of God, which clearly states that we should be above reproach. That's a promise that all believers have made to God. Furthermore, my statements about my own experience make up a minor portion of my response, when compared with the many statements I made from Scripture. That is to say, I'm not basing my opinion on my experience; I'm basing it on the Word of God and I'm using my own experience as an illustration of the truth of that Word. I hope this clarifies things.

JASON

Some of my very best friends are women! Seriously, I have found in the last ten years that IT IS possible to have very good platonic friendships with people of the opposite sex! It's not all about sex, y'know! Give me a good friendship with a woman over a bad relationship any day of the week.

We need to nurture friendships, whether they are same-sex or different-sex friendships, and I believe that as Christians it is part of our duty, part of our walk, that we engage with people of all kinds and treat them all as kindly as we would like to be treated; through this, although not everyone may become friends, we will certainly find that some people respond to this. Jesus had good mates of both sexes; it's no different for us. A good friend in life is worth their weight in gold after all.

I must say I have had some good laughs while reading these comments. But I think I'll do us all a favor and clear the air...

I trust Enuma, Andrew, and their friendship explicitly.

I first “met” Enuma when Andrew sent me a copy of her book, Reluctant Pilgrim, inscribed with a personal note from Enuma. Having already heard about Enuma through Andrew, her book made me all the more excited to meet such an honest and faithful friend. After meeting Enuma, my suspicions were confirmed: Enuma is a woman of profound courage—not only in her journey with, and in, God but also in the way she loves people “fiercely”—evidence of God’s grace in her life.

Andrew is such evidence in my life.

And as for beauty, if Andrew could not admit that Enuma is beautiful, THEN I would be worried. Lying would make me question somethings, but not the expression of one friend (who happens to be male) reminding another friend (who happens to be female) that she is SO much more than the sum of her fears.

-Kate (Andrew's girlfriend)

Nick- this statement:

"This reads as a penny dreadful romance novel. I mean, 'I slipped slowly into the silence and wiggled my way into its corners,' isn't how I would describe hanging out with friends. Ever. In a million years."

- tells me that you are not a poetic person, because not only would you never speak in such terms, but you can't recognize the difference between Enuma's lovely sentence and the cliched emotive language of a penny dreadful romance.

It's ok that you're not a poetic person, but must you insist that no one else should be poetic either, and that your non-poetic perspective on this is the only possible real one? Especially when the author is telling you point-blank that you are misreading her. Even if you're not poetic, listening to others and taking them seriously as to what they say they mean, is within the abilities of any human being.

Sorry. The above "Annonymous" was me. I must have made a mistake posting-- I try not to post annonymously.

Well, all of us naysayers really got the rug pulled out from under us this time.

Thanks for the conversation and article. Much food for thought.

Kate (Andrew's Girlfriend)

I'm glad you trust Andrew. (and Enuma) I would hope you wouldn't be in a relationship with someone you didn't trust. I have no problem with their friendship, or with your opinion of their friendship. But what's at issue here isn't their friendship specifically, but rather that a Christian leader (which is how Enuma will inevitably be perceived seeing as she's writing for a Christian website) is encouraging men and women to seek out relationships with members of the opposite sex, that will inevitably place them in tempting situations.

By your own admission Enuma is a beautiful woman. (I have never seen a picture of her) And Andrew spends at least some time completely alone with her, sharing emotionally intimate thoughts. I'm sorry and I really don't want to hurt any of you or your relationships, but to be so naive as to believe that neither Andrew nor Enuma will at some point be tempted to move that relationship to another level is absurd. It's only natural that that temptation would occur.

Here's the really difficult part. As great as their friendship may be, it's unloving for either of them to put the other in that situation, and worse, to encourage believers all over the world who read this article to do the same. What I'm saying is that even if Andrew and Enuma are total saints, and never, ever give in to that temptation, it's still wrong to encourage others to put themselves in that situation, seeing as they may not be as strong or spiritually mature. We're told to flee temptation, not embrace it. Does it limit your freedom? Yes. Is it difficult at times? Yes. But welcome to the world of being a Christian leader.

JASON

Jason, I deeply respect your passion for purity, your passion to honor God's word in male-female relations. It is a good conversation. At one point though, does a Christian leader reflect on whether or not his/her view is conforming to the world (and/or surrounding culture) or leading from honoring Scripture?

So many Christian leaders have to had to lead when the prevailing culture or tradition said otherwise. Do you, Jason, embrace that women are inherently prone to deception? Most Christian leaders and men no longer hold that view. But that was indeed a traditional view many Christian leaders thought was taught in Scripture (1 Tim. 2:14). But at some point, there were Christian leaders who had to press through with "freedom" to see it differently.

I'm curious too, why you narrow "temptation"? First, temptation can arise in close male-female relationships that doesn't have any objectification or sexualization--in other words--like problems in any other close friendship--pride, envy, and so on.

I mention this because of some and their proclivities (apparently you are prone to this, also) to reduce and sexualize all and any temptation between men and women. While Scripture and history would certainly warn against sexual temptation, I would say from Jesus relationships with women in the Gospels we don't see Jesus engaging women in a spirit of fear. Even though he knew about Prov. 7 and the adulterous woman, as well as David and Bathsheba, and Potiphar's wife with Joseph, he nevertheless models Christian leadership not out of the fear which you argue for as necessary in Christian leadership but out of warm engagement and acceptance of their love.

He met Mary Magdalene alone in a garden after his resurrection. She was no mere acquaintance with Jesus. According to Luke 8, she financially gave to his ministry and traveled with him. She was more than just acquaintance. He her met alone showing no fear.

One of my closest friends is a married woman. I was never hiding it, but some of the leadership team at the church I attended found out (actually from me). I was judged on the spot like none other. "Why would you spend time alone with a married woman?" "You must have some deeper motive you're not sharing." Telling them she was a friend, who happened to be married and a woman, was not enough.

Her and her husband are my two closest friends. I have a relationship with both them as a couple and as individuals. There are are some things I will tell her I won't tell him and visa versa. He has no trouble with me spending time alone with her (We usually spend a whole day each month together.) Call it a date, call it anything you want, but it's not romantic. If people think we were having a fling going to musicals and ballets, I think they'd also assume I was gay if I was attending them with another guy.

Like somebody else said, the relationship is easier with somebody who is married because there are no expectations. I'd be too scared to tell a single girl I had low self-esteem issues, because I'd probably chase her off. If I told a guy, he would either not care or preach at me.

I'm glad this conversation is happening. I'm involved in a conversation on another blog where there's no belief in self-control.

So glad you shared, Brian. I believe you. And, I love cross-gender friendship days!! Hiking, canoeing, bowling, seeing U2 in concert, are just a few of "whole days" I've done with a cross-gender friend. So glad you mentioned whole days! Because of the heavy emphasis on the romantic couple in the evangelical culture there is no current language for a man and woman as friends to spend a day together. But beautiful reality can happen even if there is no precise language for it.

Brian,

Married women make pretty good friends. Just sayin. :-)

Dan,

I find it funny I can go on an overnight trip with a guy, and nobody thinks a thing... but if it's a girl and we spend the day together, there must be something going on between us. I confess there is something going on. We both think each other are fun, and we make each other feel good about their self (same reason why i like to spend time with her husband).

And you're a U2 fan too? I've seen them twice in the past couple of years.

Jennifer,
Married women make some of the best friends! They make good shopping buddies. The easiest way to learn how to be a good husband is to spend time with a married woman. I also know how to make chocolate souffles. And when I'm interested in a girl, guess who's the first person I tell.

Where's a guy who likes the arts suppose to turn in a part of the country full of rednecks? :)

Jason-
"What I'm saying is that even if Andrew and Enuma are total saints, and never, ever give in to that temptation, it's still wrong to encourage others to put themselves in that situation, seeing as they may not be as strong or spiritually mature. We're told to flee temptation, not embrace it. Does it limit your freedom? Yes. Is it difficult at times? Yes. But welcome to the world of being a Christian leader."

Why do you assume that having a friendship with a person of the opposite sex will turn into temptation? As I stated earlier, just because I find a woman attractive does not mean that I want to sleep with her. What I would like to do is to encourage others to see members of the opposite sex as humans created in God's image. It is possible to appreciate another person without objectifying them.

Christian leaders should be showing how to have healthy relationships, not running away from them.

Kami (Oct. 25, 2011, 11:01 AM) said:
"I'm concerned by a few suggestions here that close friendship between two unmarried people, in particular, should be avoided because one might develop romantic feelings the other doesn't return and that would be painful. As though pain is the worst thing in the world and should be avoided at all costs. If we live a life of pain avoidance, then nearly every deep friendship and relationship would be off the table." I appreciate this point. It reminds me of the C. S. Lewis passage that's quoted here (the quote actually ends at "so be it", although the next sentence has also ended up italicized.)
:
http://motorphilia.wordpress.com/2008/02/03/to-avoid-love-is-to-find-hell-cslewis-explains/

I've had close male friends for most of my life. Some of these relationships have had, to the best of my knowledge, no romantic complications (that is, no hint of romantic feelings on my side, and to the best of my knowledge, none on my friend's side either.)

Some of my friendships with male friends have had romantic complications - I have a very close male friend who I had an attraction towards as our friendship developed - an attraction which was not returned. (We were both single, so there would have been no theoretical problem if it had turned into a romantic relationship, but that's not the direction things went.) It wasn't always easy figuring out how to navigate a friendship with someone I was attracted towards, while recognizing that those attractions were never going to end in a romantic relationship, but it was worth it. There is much of value in our friendship, and my life would be much poorer without that friendship. I'm very glad that when my friend found out that I was attracted to him, he didn't feel he needed to protect me by pulling back strongly from the friendship, but rather simply went on being friends with me.

To those who are saying you should avoid opposite-sex relationships because of the possible temptation:

Should you avoid driving, because you may be tempted to speed?

Should you not walk into Walmart to buy a stick of deodorant because you may be tempted to steal it?

Should you not hang out with the same sex, because you may be tempted to turn gay?

Should you not go to the grocery store, because you may be tempted to purchase unhealthy food?

Should you not have internet service, because you may be tempted to look at porn?

As an elderly widow for many years, I have read your many comments with interest. I believe each of you are speaking truthfully from your experience and degree of maturity. I think Jason as a pastor may have had to deal with the aftermath of too many such friendships gone wrong and the resulting pain so lightly passed over by some of you. I have known of too many myself. I suggest serious care that our enemy does not catch you over-confident and bring a painful ending to your friendships. We are all yet in the process of being sanctified and some of you seem more aware of this than others.

Brian, you last post is full of good commonsense; in short, whatever we do in life can cause a problem if we so make it into a problem! Male-female friendship is possible without the naughy bits! We CAN have full-on platonic different sex friendships, without it ever evolving into anything else. Jesus is the role model here, as He is with everything else too.

Jason-

I have been reading the comments to Enuma's blog post with Kate (my girlfriend), Enuma, and three of my best friends. All in all, it has been an occasion for the celebration of all our friendships--ones that are not isolated, but situated within our larger community of friends who try--through stops and starts--to open up our lives to one another in faithful ways. I have been blessed to find people in whose friendships we hope to actually be a sign of God's care for each other.

I'm not sure how Christ can be present in the midst of a cyber-conversation (theologians are still trying to figure that one out), but I hope--in the midst of our words to each other that somehow Jesus takes our words and transforms them into something faithful that points to the way God relates to us. I guess what I'm saying is, I wonder how 'friendship' and 'freedom' are not limited by our own Christian calculations of human 'nature', but are instead expanded into something even deeper when we enter friendship in and through the life of Jesus? Maybe Jesus came to make us into something different; something new in the midst of our vulnerability and brokenness. Maybe in the risk of friendship, and for Kate and I--the risk of romantic love--we can pray that Jesus would surround us and take us up into his own body, God's unrelenting love for us, where he casts out our fears.

I don't know where you come from Jason. I don't know what your community is like, and what you mean when you talk about Christian leadership. In an unfortunate way, you seem to be much more sure about us--and human behavior in general for that matter--than we are sure about any of that. These are conversations about the ways we are formed at our core--so in that way, it seems to me, you are right to place such importance on the Christian life and intimacy. If Jesus is the incarnate God--if Jesus really does promise us life in and with God--then Jesus is also a promise to us that we - just maybe - will become a sign to each other of God's presence. That is the kind of heavy lifting that Jesus does for us in our relationships, I hope, before we step into each other's lives at all. It concerns me that you can tell us with such certainty where our friendships will lead without so much as acknowledging Jesus' presence, in whose presence we think all our relating to each other is made possible and in whose life we find the one we are called to follow.

I guess, what I'm trying to say--is that I don't think you have to be so fearful of the ways Enuma's blog will influence the downfall of Christian friendship. As a Christian minister, you probably have read Scripture over and over again; probably more than I have. Nevertheless, I love the stories of Jesus. As you probably know, he is always telling people to leave their work, their money, their families--all the things tied to very worldly desires, ones often thought to be fixed into the very nature of what it means to be human. Jesus steps between those narratives that seek to tell us what our nature is, and he tells us to leave it all to follow him. "Not that," he says, "Me." "Don't worry about that," he says, "I'll take care of it."

He is the great "I Got You."

He is this for us especially when it feels like our lives and our worlds are too often marked by profound brokenness. So, my simple point, is that Enuma isn't Jesus--she's just one voice. Although, she does still listen to music on cassette tape - which I'm pretty sure dates her to around the same time as Jesus.

And this brings me to my last point, which is also another way of saying, "Jesus.”

Regular time alone is not part of my friendship with Enuma. This decision is not based on fear of the 'what ifs' - and certainly does not rest on any 'Doctrine of Inevitability'. Even though I think Jesus does transform us--makes us free--I don't think Jesus wants to take away our limits. I think he wants to live there with us, and show us that our limits are good. We only have so much life to give, and so my limits demand me to make priorities for how and to whom my emotions are given, where intimacy is fostered--which I think is partly why we make different commitments, different covenants with each other. I have freely committed to give my deepest commitment among all my relationships to Kate, even though I know I will fail her at times. That means, in one way, that I have to cut back on the amount of time--and the kinds of time--I can give to others. But, in another way, in the context of our mutual love and commitment, Kate and I have hoped for the ways in which our relationship will actually open us up to love others, to be friend to others, even better. Whatever gifts we receive through our relationship that transforms us into more faithful people, we hope to share them, knowing there will be times when we will need/want those gifts of friendship from others.

Is it possible that a fear of intimacy is the very fear that keeps us distant from one another? Is it possible that in advocating this kind of blanket disapproval of certain relationships without having encountered them in their particularities you are actually shutting off the possibility that Jesus might show up in unexpected ways, maybe even strange ways? It seems to me that something fundamental to the gospel is intimacy, and our alienation from intimacy is evidenced in our deformed visions of social relationships across gender, race, and class identities. Think with me, for example, about the legacy of ‘the male’. Our distance from females has often done the work of reinforcing the “male as dominant control/female as sexual object” identities reinforced in our everyday life. In that way—female friendship can be salvific for men, offering a different picture of male/female interaction that makes the objectification of people look absurd. I'm convinced that Enuma's friendship has prepared me to be a faithful partner to Kate, and I thank God for that.

All that to say, we do believe that following Jesus does mean different kinds of covenants with different kinds of people—and at the same time we think following Jesus means Jesus is Lord over those covenants—and he is Lord over long-held ideas that can turn into tools of control that stop trusting in Jesus. What if Jesus' unrelenting love is a promise to us that sometimes we will have to challenge long-held ideas in the very name of Jesus Christ? When Jesus healed, it was on the Sabbath. He wasn't supposed to heal on the Sabbath. They weren't supposed to leave their labor. He wasn't supposed to leave his money. And yet, I think that is what happens when Jesus shows up-- he is the Great 'I Got You'.

When Enuma came to our house--needing someone to be God's care for her, to remind her--as Kate so beautifully put it, that “she isn't the sum of her fears,” I was blessed to be called on to try. I guess I could have told her that it was inappropriate to be alone with her--that if we sat there we would inevitably be tempted--that it isn't safe to be in these kinds of friendships. I could have told her it was the Sabbath...

But then I remembered that Jesus is the Great 'I Got You'.

Andrew, love this statement...

"Our distance from females has often done the work of reinforcing the “male as dominant control/female as sexual object” identities reinforced in our everyday life. In that way—female friendship can be salvific for men, offering a different picture of male/female interaction that makes the objectification of people look absurd. I'm convinced that Enuma's friendship has prepared me to be a faithful partner to Kate, and I thank God for that."

Some of the best learning I did in college was learning what friendship with a female means. All through college I was dating/engaged to the woman who is now my wife (we married like ... 2 weeks after I graduated). But while in college, I had close friendships with maybe 4 or 5 different young ladies: some single, some dating, some married.

If I entered into a friendship with a young lady, my girlfriend (now wife) was the first to know. If she thought boundaries were needed, they were set. But, and I mean this with all sincerity, the number one thing I learned in those friendships was how this “male as dominant control/female as sexual object” concept had distorted the way I thought. This was pretty thoroughly broken in my friendships, and my male friends also had to break into this concept with me during those years. In short, we did some growing up.

Now married for about 5 years, I've lost touch with most of those female friends. But they taught me a lot. Even if they hadn't though, to quote Enuma: "It is also beautiful for its own sake, without thought of its broader utility."

Amen and amen.

Andrew, I can't imagine a better response! Thank you for extracting us from the Christian realism that often plagues our imaginations and leads us to live more in light of sin than in Christ's victory over sin. What a great word. Thank you!!!

Andrew - thank you for that. It was beautiful. Enuma and Kate are blessed to have you in their lives.

Andrew, in too many ways to count, thank you.

Great post and great conversation ...especially appreciated Kate's voice in here and also Mildred's....and author Dan Brennan who has a book out on this exact topic. Maybe that got mentioned and I missed it, but in case it didn't, let me plug it for him : Sacred Unions, Sacred Passions: Engaging the Mystery of Friendship between Men and Women....Dan writes with great insight and wisdom about this topic and addresses the concerns voiced here. I have those concerns, too, but I am so appreciative for my brothers and sisters who are helping to show us the way to non-romanticized, non-sexualized cross-gender relationships.

Andrew, thank you for reminding us that we are not under law but under grace, and that when we are led by the Spirit of God, we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Anyone who is your friend must be very blessed.

This is a very thought-provoking topic! I do think it's possible for men and women to have platonic relationships with the opposite gender: I am proof of that. Most of my male friends are married, or in committed relationships. Our friendships are based on mutual interests: both general history, and specific historical periods. Some of the wives are interested in these topics, but some are not. And they have no problems with me being friends with their spouses.

I should also say that I don't see most of these male friends in person. However, I did meet with several of them in person last November, during a holiday in the UK and Europe. I even shared meals with them together, and we were able to chat freely about a lot of topics. And in one instance, I stayed several days with one friend and his wife, and we had a marvelous time together.

I must also say that none of these male friends were ever attracted to me sexually. Romantic feelings never enter into the picture. Much of it must be due to the fact I am not physically attractive to them. But I can live with that. I knew a long time ago that I wouldn't be a 'magnet of attraction' to men. I'd rather share mutual interests with a man. That way, it won't bring about issues of the heart.

That's my two cents, for whatever it's worth. Thanks for the great comments about the topic: the church needs to see that opposite-gender friendships CAN be done.

Wow! This has been quite amazing. Andrew, your comment embodies a gospel-centered, Christ-centered, boundary-shifting view of friendship and intimacy. I definitely believe more and more followers of Christ are becoming aware of bigger categories for relating to the opposite sex than sex/romance or calculated distance.

This was a great post! One of my best friends is a man. Erich and I have known each other since we were 12, and our relationship have deepened over the years. There was never any romantic interest. We're like brother and sister; we can have open and honest conversations while maintaining proper boundaries.

I'm married. He's married with two kids. Neither of our spouses has an issue with our interacting. I think the problems spouses have with their mates engaging in male/female friendships have much more to do with jealousy and insecurity than the inappropriateness of the relationship.

I know God is the great 'I got you', but still, don't push it. Jesus was fully God and fully man, He could trust Himself not to fall for Mary, but we constantly wage war with our flesh and the enemy of our souls is real. I'm just sayin'. Love, be a friend, but be very cautious that you don't create a situation that will make it easy for you to fall. Believe me, Kate wouldn't want the 'comfort' of knowing that Enuma will be there for Andrew when she(Kate) and Andrew are not on good terms...especially in a marriage relationship. It's easy to encourage the platonic friendship now. Marriage is a different ball game. My 2c.

i lost a boyfriend to 'just friends' its only natural for two people of differnt sexes to get involved in this way one falls for the other at a certain time and plants the idea and if its the opportune time....

Tammy,

If Andrew and Kate got in a fight (married or not), dont you think its possible that Enuma could be there as a friend to Andrew to process what was going on and help him work things out with Kate?

Hey! I heard about this article on the radio station that wakes me up in the morning. (I honestly have no idea what station it is---just one I landed on when setting the alarm.) The article itself and the responses have been very good w/ coffee. :)

After absorbing everything, my stance is that guy-girl platonic friendships are absolutely possible (and wonderful) BUT that doesn't mean every person is equipped to handle them. The wisdom of engaging in such relationships must be taken on a case by case basis.

I've been married for 20 years, and over the last 2 1/2 years have developed a close friendship with a single man. The relationship has enriched my life in many ways, including strengthening my understanding of and daily interaction with Christ. The extent of my husband's support in that area has been letting himself be dragged to church once a week. I'm the spiritual leader in this house (scary, but true) and I know the Lord sent me this wonderful, faith-filled friend to support me in that endeavor - I sure hate to think I'd have to icksnay the friendship just because he happens to be a straight man.

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