Hermenuetics

Comments

Much wisdom in this article, and I agree -- there needs to be more training given those who are mentoring and counseling Christian engaged and married couples in the church. *HOWEVER,* as someone with a long-term illness situation, and given my experiences and research, I would run, not walk, away from a church offering nouthetic counseling. This summer I spoke to a woman who went through some nouthetic tender mercies; travelling many miles with an abusive husband to counsel with a pastor whose counsel and approach went from bad to worse; insisting she was "unforgiving" and needed to "start with a clean slate" at each session despite no change in her husband's behavior; emphasizing unilateral submission to the point that she was told to "glorify God in her death" should her hysband kill her. Sometimes the worst counselor can be the one most utterly convinced that they have the Bible by the tail, and most confident in their competence to counsel.

Posted By: sg | November 14, 2011 12:03 PM

I think this is a great book. I recommend it all the time. But I also caution churches to tell the truth about the good parts of marriage (health, support, etc.) and that divorce rates are going down and that church actually does make a difference in marriage.

I am tired of church saying that there is a divorce rate of 50 percent or that Evangelicals have a higher rate of divorce than the general population. It just is not true. It may get people to pay attention temporarily, but we are harming our message when people understand it is not true, or at the very least we are harming our people in the church when we unnecessarily scare them.

I lead a small newly married small group and while my wife and I frankly talk about difficulties, I caution them to not worry unnecessarily about their marriage. In our last group the majority married after 25, the majority have college degrees or above and good jobs, the majority attend church regularly and serve in some capacity either at church or in another ministry, etc. All of those things point to the fact that they will be more likely to stay married that those that do not do those things. Our small group likely has an 80-90% chance of staying married given where they are at less than 2 years into a marriage. We should talk about that and give hope.

Posted By: Adam Shields | November 14, 2011 12:09 PM

This is a well written article and other single people need to read it.

Posted By: Brian | November 14, 2011 12:19 PM

Thanks for pointing me to the Elisbath Corcoran series. Wow, that is powerful, heartbreaking stuff.

Posted By: Anne | November 14, 2011 12:22 PM

"Somewhere along the line, we have missed too many opportunities to tell them the truth, that marriage is a holistic earthly reflection of Christ’s love for his church. Marriage is a union of sacrifice, the laying down of self to the glory of God and for the honor of his name. Marriage is a powerful witness of what Jesus has done and continues to do for us. It transforms us into his very image."

Another article that upholds the belief that marriage is the holy grail of relationships. I had such high hopes when I started reading and then they all came crashing down. To be expected, I guess.

Posted By: Kristen | November 14, 2011 12:36 PM

Good insights, Natasha: "When we fail to tell people the truth, they become bitter and untrusting." It's impossible to tell an engaged couple exactly what problems they will face in their particular marriage, of course, but there are some things we can do. I remember a great piece of advice from a friend years and years before I thought of marrying anyone. She said her mother told her that a good marriage was not all happiness all the time, but rather that a good marriage took a lot of work. Seems so basic now, but it is what started me thinking way back then that marriage was more than just saying I do and living happily ever after.

Now when I talk to friends who are getting married, I pass along the hard work stuff. I also borrow a tip from G.K. Chesterton (although he applied it to doubting his faith): If you ever start to feel that the marriage is to hard, try lying down until the feeling goes away. this advice doesn't apply, of course, to real crises (e.g., adultery, abuse, abandonment) that demand our attention, but merely those times where feelings get in the way. Sometimes those feelings are based on unreasonable - and often unspoken - expectations, sometimes just on bad digestion, but feelings themselves are transitory.

Tim

Posted By: Tim | November 14, 2011 12:42 PM

If you have to work harder on your marriage than at your job, there's a problem. The last thing i need to come home to is ISSUES. My home is where I come to rest, not stress. Been married, been divorced, been burned by the legal system, No thank you. I am after a much higher calling. Marriage is way over rated.

Posted By: william | November 14, 2011 1:05 PM

The big "aha!" moment for me in this was reading "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. He talks about expectations and how if we go into marriage expecting the emotional high of infatuation to continue, we will be disappointed. Maybe we will even think we are "falling out of love." This has mystified many couples and led to many divorces (perhaps the Kardashian-Humphries divorce?). However, if we go into marriage expecting emotional ups and downs and that love is an action that show towards the other person, we will have the tools for a long and largely happy life together. I love the theme of this article on holiness instead of happiness. Happiness is a byproduct of obedience and self-sacrificial love. We need "till death do we part" because it takes us a lifetime to learn this.

Posted By: Rebecca Miller | November 14, 2011 1:38 PM

Truth be told, any good marriage has its seasons of plain old hard work. After 35 years of marriage and a decade of counseling experience, I can tell you that it's so much easier to look at all your spouse's faults and idiosyncracies than to look in your own mirror.

A good question to ask ourselves, as often as necessary, is WHAT'S IT LIKE BEING MARRIED TO YOU?

Posted By: Linda Stoll | November 14, 2011 1:41 PM

The problem with this article is that it omits an important point: some Christian marriages end in divorce, and some non-Christian marriages are happy into old age. I think the real thing that makes marriage happy is two emotionally healthy people who are reasonably compatible and 100% committed to each other. This seems to work whether you are Christian or not (and I am a Christian).

Posted By: Gene | November 14, 2011 1:51 PM

As a newlywed, I needed these reminders today. It is easy for me to make choices in order to keep my marriage happy. While this isn't inherently wrong, I am reminded again that I must have a larger vision for my marriage. Thank you, Natasha, for sharing this Truth.

p.s. I'm in the middle of reading Sacred Marriage right now.

Posted By: Callie | November 14, 2011 1:57 PM

A great and timely article. Thanks, Natasha. I've had the book Sacred Marriage recommended to me several times in the past few months, maybe because I'm teaching an intimacy class at my church. It sounds great, and probably brings home the point that we are all kindergardeners when it comes to love. We have to be taught, and who better to learn from than Christ? And yes, we have to tell the truth about love: what it is, what it isn't, and where we fall short.

I have a mix of women in my group, some married a short time, some decades, some divorced and still single. What we agree on is that love isn't based on a feeling, especially one as fleeting as happiness. Funny, I just wrote about this in a post titled "Soul Mates and Other Modern Myths." It's a discussion worth keeping on the table. Thanks for keeping it going!

Posted By: Leslea | November 14, 2011 2:39 PM

One comment stated, "If you have to work harder on your marriage than at your job, there's a problem." If only people would put as much effort into their marriages as their careers. (I'm not talking about crisis marriages, but just the run of the mill every day marriage stuff.) Marriage is hard work, and worth it. Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you a bill of goods.

I don't know why each marriage that falls apart does so, but I do know that each marriage would benefit from each spouse putting their best effort into the relationship; when one or both don't, problems are inevitable. Sometimes only one spouse is at fault and sometimes both, but the cause is found by looking at the spouse (or spouses) who decided it wasn't worth the effort to be a responsible partner in the relationship.

Tim

P.S. If a person is not willing to put the work into making as great a marriage as possible, they should probably just call off the wedding.

Posted By: Tim | November 14, 2011 2:47 PM

This is a good article dear Natasha. My wife and I have been married for 20 years and we are thankful to God that we realized that one of God's purposes of marriage is sanctification, which is/should be one of the top priorities for every Christian and which is a life long process in which God uses different means and agents. Life-partner/spouse is a God-given means of grace and and an agent of sanctification. I agree with you that holiness has to be emphasized (of course along with happiness which would be a good and needed by product of holiness in life). The Lord bless your ministry and we pray for the Church everywhere, especially in the West to focus on Scriptural instruction on marriage and make a difference in the culture.

Posted By: Sudhakar Mondithoka | November 14, 2011 3:06 PM

The best advice to young potential spouses is:
Bring up the major arguing points, and debate them out before You tie the knot.
Things like:
# Do we give our habitually disobedient son time out....again(to play video games in his room). or do we have him select a switch from the oleander, and apply tried and true correction?
# Do we waste a fortune dragging toilet training out for years, filling land fills with disposable diapers, or do we buy 2 dozen cotton diapers, wash and reuse them.
# Whose responsibility is the feeding, clothing, educating of our children: The nanny state, or the parents?
# Human sacrifice: Is sacrificing unborn babies to the goddess Liberty/freedom of choice, moral or immoral?
# Who/what is the ultimate authority that we will both agree to abide by just in case we cannot agree on any particular point...
The church?
The law of the land?
My parents, Your parents?
A premarital contract?
Shariah law?
The Bible?
Questions like these before marriage, instead of after, would cut down divorce.

Posted By: Theophile | November 14, 2011 3:18 PM

Our society's myth is that good marriages just happen by themselves. The truth is that they are forged in the heat and pressure of everyday life in a fallen world by couples committed to make them happen by the grace of God. If I am preoccupied with my needs and my spouse's shortcomings, our marriage won't be nearly as good as if I am focused on my spouse's needs and my own shortcomings. Being willing to die to self is a necessary part of illustrating the relationship of Christ and His church.

Posted By: Bob | November 14, 2011 3:20 PM

I love this. A refreshing, challenging, and humbling reminder. Sharing this with my husband, my married friends, and my soon-to-be married friends, already igniting really great convos. Thank you.

Posted By: karen | November 14, 2011 3:35 PM

It really bothers me that more Christian churches do not offer or even require pre marital counceling. I think this process would save people a lot of heart ache and a lot of money. I think it would diminish divorce because a lot more people probably wouldn't get married.
I have experienced a lot of heartache in my marriage. I'm actually divorced now because I don't think anyone, including my parents, modled a good marriage or taught me what a good marriage was supposed to look like. My ex husband and I are back together and planning to re marry but this is after a long hard road of learning what marriage is all about.
My sister in law said something that always stuck out to me to be truth...Marriage and true love are what's left after all the butterflys are gone.

Posted By: Jessica | November 14, 2011 3:42 PM

"I am tired of church saying that there is a divorce rate of 50 percent or that Evangelicals have a higher rate of divorce than the general population. It just is not true. It may get people to pay attention temporarily, but we are harming our message when people understand it is not true, or at the very least we are harming our people in the church when we unnecessarily scare them.

I lead a small newly married small group and while my wife and I frankly talk about difficulties, I caution them to not worry unnecessarily about their marriage."

I agree with Adam. While it's important not to sugar-coat marriage as a blissful fairy tale, it's also important not to swing to the other extreme and scare people off.

When I got engaged, my father sat me down and gave me a very scary "marriage can be miserable" lecture. He really scared me and shook me up, then he said "what's wrong?" when I started crying.

I married my fiance, and we are very happy together.

Posted By: K | November 14, 2011 4:04 PM

I have noticed also that many christian women and men never marry. (I have been a christian for 30 years and have yet to marry.)For those who really seem to believe and understand the importance of waiting for the right one will proably marry later. I suspect others may become new christians later in life who come out of unhappy and unhealthy relationships and learn as they go that Christ is enough and may never want to marry. I do wonder if this decade and perhaps the next will see many christian singles never marry.God is showcasing His people to the world. Who endeavor to live lives above reproach in this area as holy unto the Lord surrounded by a world that can't.

Posted By: Cindy | November 14, 2011 6:04 PM

I actually sort of disagree with this article. I believe God DID intend marriage for happiness. I think happiness spills out of the pages of the Song of Songs. My marriage is the happiest thing that ever happened to me, after my salvation.

I don't know why some Christian couples aren't happy. Then again some Christians aren't happy even though they have Christ either. If you can't find happiness in Christ you will never find it.

Posted By: Nadine | November 14, 2011 6:14 PM

Evangelical culture definitely tends to say the following things: "When you get married..." "God has someone in store for you..." etc. I wonder why we just assume that EVERYone will someday get married. It's as if we forgot that Paul said it was better to remain unmarried. Instead, we tell our youth (and people of all ages, for that matter) that marriage is IT. It's what we're working towards.

Personally, I rebelled against this narrative (or at least, I TRIED to) and swore I wouldn't get married until I was 40 -- IF I got married at all. God had another narrative in store for me, and I AM married, WITH a child. But I really try to watch my language, especially when mentoring college-aged women. I cannot tell them that God has someone waiting for them, the way people told me. I CAN tell them that God wants them to place their full value in HIM, and that our focus must be on Christ and taking part in The Great Story. But that might mean that they may never get married, and they will have to trust the Lord with that part of the story.

Posted By: rachel @ even one sparrow | November 14, 2011 6:20 PM

@Adam Shields Thanks for sharing your experiences. It is encouraging to hear testimonies from situations like your small group. We should certainly tell the good stories! I admit, I fret because I know there are so many married couples out there suffering in silence that do not appear to have the safe haven that you described.

@Callie Be encouraged my sister. I pray that your marriage is sacred, holy, and does bring you much happiness for many years to come...

@Bob Thanks for sharing your testimony! Blessings.

@Karen Thanks for reading and sharing.

@Jessica Praise God for reuniting you and your spouse! Congratulations!

@Rachel@evenonesparrow: Exactly! Keep teaching and sharing the truth about marriage.

Posted By: Natasha Robinson | November 14, 2011 8:13 PM

"But I really try to watch my language, especially when mentoring college-aged women." Great reminder for all of us, Rachel, when we speak to young adults about what has become normative (whether marriage or other stuff) in the broader evangelical circles. Both of my kids are in college now and I've tried to be somewhat iconoclastic with them when it comes to these types of issues. Instead, as you say, the point really is to trust God and accept the rest of life as it falls in line with that trust.

Tim

P.S. Your story about swearing not to get married until 40 (if at all) reminds me of my friend who told God long ago that he was willing to do anything but become a pastor. He'll hit the 30 year mark as pastor at our church next year.

Posted By: Tim | November 14, 2011 8:20 PM

Good points made. I am a single, Christian women waiting patiently on the One God chose this for me. Although, these days I am wondering if instead of the gift of marriage... I will have the gift of singleness. I have been through alot or relationships, some good and some bad... So I am waiting on God to reveal his plan for me in this area. But, from watching family and friends in "happy" marriages I have learned that marriage does require a lot of work. The wedding is only a moment but marriage is or should be a lifetime. I am 30 and I know many couples my age or younger who are now divorced...or are in an unhappy marriage. I believe that God ordained marriages and that they are to be happy. But without a vision of how to make a marriage work it is unlikely that it will be happy. Where there is no vision... I believe many people even in 2011 don't sit down and talk about life after the ceremony. But, they spend months or even years planning a wedding. My parents have been together for almost 40 years and through it all they still love each other and are very happy. If it is in God's will the lessons I learn from them and others with happy marriages will be taken into my marriage or used in some form in my singleness.
Renee

Posted By: Renee | November 14, 2011 8:47 PM

I've always been of the opinion that unrealistic expectations lead to more divorces than anything else.

Great post!

Posted By: Karen | November 14, 2011 10:00 PM

Churches (and this article) that recommend "nouthetical counseling" without either understanding or disclosing what it is, and isn't, may be doing a grave disservice to their parishoners and their readers. Most people assume that, when they go to a counselor, whatever is disclosed is confidential, meaning that, generally, neither the patient nor the counselor can be compelled to testify as to what was disclosed or advised, similar to the attorney/client privilege.

Be aware, however, that, at least in my state of Florida, in order for communications with a counselor to be confidential, the counselor must be licensed by a state authority or the counselor must be qualified as a member of the clergy. See Florida Statutes 90.503 (psychotherapist/patient privilege), 90.505 privilege for communications with clergy). The nouthetical counseling program linked in this article, however, clearly states that its program does NOT qualify those who complete it to be licensed by any state. In fact, their FAQs actually mock an inquiry about such licensure.

So, if the nouthetical counselor is not ALSO either licensed by the state in a qualified profession (MD, psychologist, licensed clinical social worker, nurse practioner, etc.) or qualified as a member of the clergy, one's communications with that nouthetical counselor are not likely, at least in Florida, to be treated as confidential. Thus, practically speaking, (in Florida) if you disclose to the non-clergy, non-licensed, nouthetical counselor that you have a problem (infidelity, gambling, substance abuse, post-partum depression, eating disorder, anything really) and you become involved in a divorce or custody dispute, or are involved in some other legal dispute in which the information would be relevant, a court may require all of that information to be disclosed. The counselor could very well be compelled to testify (and produce his/her notes and records) about all the things you said and you could be called to testify as well.

I would urge anyone considering a nouthetical counselor, and churches and authors who recommend/offer/promote such counseling, to ask some serious questions and to find out the counselor's qualifications and patients' rights in your state before proceeding. (Disclaimer -- I'm not giving legal advice, just raising questions that should be asked. You should consult your own lawyer if this is an issue for you.)

Posted By: Christian Lawyer | November 15, 2011 2:01 AM

As for me and my spouse, we will serve the Lord :)
Marriage IS designed to make us holy more than to make us happy and interestingly, "the chief end of holiness IS happiness!"
Thanks for a great article - Gary Thomas' Sacred Marriage is a wonderful tool that is redirecting lives in our small corner of the world, we highly recommend it.

Posted By: Joanne Hordyk | November 15, 2011 6:11 AM

Wow! This article really surprised me! I have been married for 37 years, and it has and still is a great source of happiness, joy and yes, holiness, for me!

The idea that people are happy until they get married disturbs me. I loved the dating years with me husband, but the richness of our relationship has only improved since then. Yes, we've had good times and bad over the last 37 years, but that is life, married or not.

I will say that selfishness is a marriage killer, but it will also keep you from the holiness that God wants for you, whether you are married or not.

I appreciate this author's point of view, but not sure I agree with it. I hope that we are telling the truth about marriage in our churches.

Posted By: Suzy | November 15, 2011 8:14 AM

Marriage doesn't "complete" you. It challenges you in ways you cannot even imagine on your wedding day. It's really, really hard sometimes. Sometimes it is blissful and happy. Sometimes it's not. People should know that before they get married. The church doesn't prepare young people for the incredible difficulties they will probably experience in their marriages.

I've been married 10 years, and recently wasn't even sure my marriage would survive due to my husband's recently-diagnosed mental illness. I have never been in a more challenging circumstance than I have been the last 6 months, marriage or otherwise. No one can predict what will happen 5, 10, 35 years down the line. But knowing that the bottom can fall out when you both lose your jobs, when someone commits adultery, when someone becomes a stranger or an invalid through illness... just knowing it could happen would prevent the blindside, I think. It could happend to ANYONE. I never imagined that we would be in this circumstance. Thank God for our committment to our marriage and a great therapist to work us through this and beyond. It takes TWO, and if one spouse isn't committed, there's not much the other can do.

In my experience, the Christian singles scene focuses so much on appearance and finding a "hot" spouse, the perfect mate. I had left that shallow arena by the time I was 20. It was an almost toxic environment. The church can do better.

There are times when a marriage MUST end. If your spouse is harming you or your children and is unrepentant, leave for your own safety. It is sad. But it has to happen sometimes.

Posted By: R. | November 15, 2011 11:16 AM

My church, I think, goes almost the opposite direction emphasizing how difficult marriage is and how easy it is to be single. I think the real message for everyone should be that LIFE is no bowl of cherries. We all have our times of celebration and mourning. Certainly no one should go into marriage thinking it's going to be happiness 24/7, but I think that message played out for me sometime around high school graduation. The reality is we see the brokenness of marriage in our society and only the most ignorant or those in denial can't see that.

What HAS been useful to me, however, are testimonies from people who did marry the love of their life and say that sometimes in the marriage, that's the only thing you have to hold on to. This is why I'm waiting to find the right person to marry. I KNOW marriage will have it's difficulties and during the most difficult times, I want to be able to celebrate the memory.

Posted By: Anonymous | November 15, 2011 12:22 PM

A comment that no one jumped on board with was Gene's when he talked about what contributes to marital happiness is the emotional health of the two people. I see very little talk in churches about what emotional health is, as if it has no bearing on one's life at all. We play the spiritual card to death but we are only as spiritually healthy as we are emotionally healthy, contrary to popular Christian belief. It's no wonder that marriages are in trouble if the individuals in it are emotionally dysfunctional or even merely functional. An emotionally healthy person already knows another person won't complete them. An emotionally healthy person is aware of his/her woundings from childhood and is dealing with them. He/she knows what their formerly unconscious motivations/drivers are and is practicing healthy boundaries with others. An emotionally aware person is in touch with their own emotions at any given time and can therefore step into the perspective and emotions of his partner. An emotionally healthy person is not looking to another to make them happy; they realize they are responsible for their own happiness. These principles apply to everyone but since the topic is marriage, I think I would go so far as to say a marriage is only as healthy as the two people in it.

Posted By: Lane | November 15, 2011 12:39 PM

I agree with Nadine. I do think God intended marriage to be a source of happiness. I don't think it's intended to be 100% drudgery. There's absolutely an element of sacrifice (which is never all that fun - selfishness is hard to get over!), but as noted, Song of Songs indicates that God designed marriage to be joyful. Not without its trials -- but joyful nonetheless. To put TOO much emphasis on its difficulties makes the pendulum swing the other way -- actually *dis*couraging people and making them think "why bother?" It's also not a satisfactory answer to the cry of the hearts who long to experience marriage.

I absolutely loved Gary Thomas' book. I think it offers a lot of great advice and I've learned a lot, even as an unmarried woman.

But there has to be a better answer to unmarried people than "marriage isn't about happiness, so don't expect it to make you happy." I DON'T expect it to *make* me happy. I DO want to experience its particular joys.

We need to start answering unmarried peoples' sorrow with better answers than "Perhaps singleness is the gift God's given you!" "Maybe you'll NEVER get married and that's God's plan for you..." "Better to be single than in a bad marriage!" "Paul said singleness is preferable!" and all the other things people say when they don't know what else to say. Most of us recognize marriage is not going to "make" us happy. I wish that more people would recognize peoples' longing for marriage is a MUCH broader issue than simply stating "maybe marriage isn't God's will for you." When lack of marriage is as broad of a problem as it is, it indicates something systemic rather than something that's simply the problem of an individual. How can we help people get married, and do so in a way that reflects Christlikeness and... yes... leads to holiness AND happiness?

Posted By: Anne S | November 15, 2011 1:19 PM

@Christian Lawyer - THANK YOU for that information!!! I'm in the midst of deciding which direction to go when it comes to becoming a counselor and that is a HUGE piece of information!

Posted By: Leslie | November 15, 2011 1:19 PM

Natasha, very well written and insightful page. Being a devoted Christian man I think it is too easy in today's internet wifi age to lose track of what's important. You were talking about premarital counseling in your article,(in which I believe in myself)but what about after? I believe in counseling during the marriage to what I would call "maintenance counseling" with your church to prevent your marriage from going in the wrong direction to begin with. Would love your response.

Posted By: Christian | November 15, 2011 3:01 PM

@ Christian Lawyer Thanks for sharing this information. I find it particularly beneficial for churches and non-profits who want to assist by offering counseling, and maybe students interested in pursuing counseling programs.

For individuals, I hope that their choice of the best counseling to pursue is not limited to what could potentially happen in a court room. The shear thought of that makes me a little nervous – sounds like a Christian prenuptial agreement consideration. God’s Word has something to say about Christians taking each other to court, but I will refrain from that discussion here.

@ Lane Very, very interesting comment. I agree wholeheartedly that our spiritual and emotional health is connected. Emotional health is another area where the Church is overall deficient. I recently read, “Emotionally Healthy Spirituality” by Peter Scazzero and I highly recommend it! I’m considering using it as a ministry resource next year.

@ Anne S Interesting dialog. You ask very important questions and some that I have been asking lately. Should we be encouraging people to get married earlier (between the ages of 18 post high school - early 20s)? I ask the question because we are discussing the culture in the church but also how the culture in the world affects the church. @Adam Shields posted a comment about a ideal scenario of married couples in his small group (majority married after age 25) but I believe an anonymous poll of those in the group asking the question, “Were you a virgin before you got married?” would be revealing. So I wonder in our sex-crazed society, would it be better to encourage young people to get married when they are ready to make that decision and then mentor them both as individuals and couples so they can learn to “grow” with the Lord and each. As @R. stated, we never really know what is going to happen, so the idea of waiting until after college, established career, etc seems more American to me than biblical guidance. Unfortunately culturally and statistically, I do believe it is more difficult for women when marriage is prolonged. So I guess, I pose more questions concerning singleness than answers. Sorry.

Posted By: Natasha Robinson | November 15, 2011 3:24 PM

"If happiness is what a young single woman seeks in a groom, I would tell her not to get married. It would be better to gather a group of single girlfriends, buy some popcorn and sodas, and rent a PG-13 romantic comedy."

Marriage is hard, BUT singleness is also hard. Even if you believe you are called to remain single to serve the Lord, as I do at this point, it is still hard. Perhaps when you're 20 you can call your girlfriends and watch a comedy. But it's not the same when you're 30 and beyond. What if your girlfriends are all married and spending the evenings and holidays with their spouses? The lack of companionship is still a reality. And that's just one issue that makes singleness hard -there are others. Am I complaining? Not at all! And I certainly don't consider my life harder - or easier - than that of the average married woman's. Both have joys and trials, but in different ways. For some, singleness is excruciating. For some, marriage is excruciating.

Perhaps the issue is that we too often teach or imply that life should be easy. I know too many married women who wish at times to be single, and single women who wish to be married. A life spent in a fallen, sinful, broken world, poured out in love for Christ and other people will be HARD, yes, and joyful too. Period. Whether you are married or single. But friends - we weren't called to lives of ease.

Posted By: Ann | November 15, 2011 4:51 PM

Should we be encouraging people to get married earlier (between the ages of 18 post high school - early 20s)?

Very good questions to present to anyone in the church raising or mentoring young people. For those of us beyond our 20s though, it is a moot point and I think most of us are pretty wise to the reality that marriage does not make one a happy person. The church does a disservice when it romanticises marriage, but it often does the same with singlehood. The reality is that life is challenging for all of us whether married or single and no one state is going to make anyone happy who isn't already.

I apologize if this thread has been somewhat hijacked, but my experience is that the church emphasizes the difficulties of marriage and de-emphasizes the difficulties those of us not married face. This lack of empathy, in my opinion, is going to hurt church growth over the next 20 years considering how many single people exist in our society today. Whether one should marry young is beside the point if an individual simply doesn't for whatever reason and the church should address those who aren't with as much understanding and compassion as they do with those who do.

After all this, I do appreciate your article Natasha. Your point a good thing to remember, but particularly in teaching our young people about marriage.

Posted By: Anonymous | November 15, 2011 5:26 PM

Thoughtful article.

I would like to add this thought to the mix: why do we think "training" will solve our issues. True, it is our collective habits that have led to a large number of divorces, and in this sense, we need to retrain our habits. But "training sessions" just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I sincerely doubt any amount of "training" can approach a solution. It's a mantra similar to that of the "safe sex" crowd. "We need more education." As a people, we've never had more "education" on how to live "healthfully and wholly." The reason we need this education is because the social mores that used to inform actions surrounding eros have broken down. No amount of self-help books, sex ed, or counseling sessions will begin to work change on the underlying causes of our erotic insanity.

Posted By: Cole | November 15, 2011 5:37 PM

Emotional health is so necessary for a good marriage, maturity, living for God and putting your spouse before you always; giving your spouse the benefit of the doubt always. I think the part that marriage is for holiness rather than happiness is a point that should be emphasized.

That being said most in love couples think they will do it better than others who have trouble. They can't imagine fighting with their future spouse.

If anyone really knew what marriage was like before they got married, we'd all be single (same goes for being parents). Marriage is TOUGH. I am in a happy marriage. We've been married for almost 18 years, but boy, marriage has moments when you just want to give up. But then, when you think about all the people who will be affected if something happens to your marriage you get a better perspective. And also it helps to get a break from each other if you're having a rough patch (but not with other friends who are also having marriage troubles).

Posted By: jane Hinrichs | November 15, 2011 6:30 PM

@Christian Necklaces I certainly agree with “marriage maintenance counseling” which can strengthen marriages whether weak or strong along the lines of beating your body and making it a slave (basically disciplining oneself for the work of God’s service) in which the Apostle Paul speaks. I’m certainly no marriage counselor and don’t consider myself one to give marital advice. This is a topic that I did not think I would ever write about but it was on my heart, so here you have it.

Therefore, I’ll share that my husband and I have attended Family Life’s “Weekend to Remember” conference and read Gary Chapman’s “Five Love Languages” and have heard him speak several times. When schedules allow, we try to take advantage of marital tune-ups that a local church offers. At home currently, we are going through Paul Tripp’s book and DVD entitled, “What Did You Expect: Redeeming the Realities of Marriage.” It is a great conversation starter. I am not necessarily endorsing any of these resources, but rather provide them as considerations for those looking to narrow their research of resources with so many being available at the moment.

@Anonymous after @Ann: Great dialog! You raise an important question concerning relevance of the local church to a growing generation of singles. Of course the gospel is always relevant to every believing individual in every situation. I believe your comments specifically address the practical function of the local church in the life of a believer who happens to be single. This is an important conversation in which we all need to start engaging now.

I have a high view of singleness just like I have a high view of marriage. When the Apostle Paul stated it was good to remain unmarried, show concern for the Lord’s affairs, and live in undivided devotion to the Lord (1 Corin 7:25-27, 32, 35), that does not sound at all like a Plan B to me. It sounds a lot like the pursuit of holiness.

@Cole: I do not agree that training or education, in the sense of seminars, workshops, counseling, etc are the solution. I believe that they are effective tools that can help.

Christ is the solution and two individuals living in undivided devotion to him is his desire. With that being said, I do believe that training (in the discipleship and mentoring sense of the word as presented in Titus 2) can go a long way to correcting some of the concerns shared here.

What I am looking to correct in my personal mentoring ministry is the need for long-term investments of relationships accompanied by the spiritual disciplines of prayer, Bible study, scripture memorization, fellowship, etc. I believe we will see huge transformations in lifestyle, choices, spiritual and emotional maturity if we disciple people following Jesus model with the 12 and the other mentoring examples presented in the Bible. We can’t continue to make short-term investment into people’s lives offering “quick fixes” and expecting long-term results.

Posted By: Natasha S Robinson | November 15, 2011 9:23 PM

@ Natasha -- I appreciate your response re confidentiality of communications with counselors, but I must disagree. For individuals, I hope they DO limit their choice of counselors based on what might happen in a legal dispute. A head in the sand approach doesn't serve anyone. And, the lawsuit might come out of the blue and might have nothing to do with marriage or family or anything about the substance of the counseling issues. Why would anyone take that risk? Why would anyone in a position of authority ever recommend it? It's like driving without car insurance.

Seeking only a licensed counselor doesn't say anything about you, your marriage, or Christians suing each other. Nor does it appear to give license to act unseriously (as some believe a prenuptual agreement might) any more than having car insurance promotes careless driving. It's just the responsible thing to do, and the responsible thing for a church to recommend.

Posted By: Christian Lawyer | November 16, 2011 6:50 AM

Thanks Natasha! Good stuff. I do not recommend many books on marriage but Gary Thomas's is one I do. Thanks for the reminder of it as a resource.

Posted By: Anonymous | November 16, 2011 8:42 AM

"If anyone really knew what marriage was like before they got married, we'd all be single (same goes for being parents)."

Not to be disrespectful, but this is the sort of thing married Christians love to tell single Christians and I find it highly annoying. Not to mention that the number of people out there on their 2nd and 3rd marriages (or 3rd or 5th or 19th child) belies this statement. Obviously, we were made to be married and people for the most part want to be married, even if they have experienced bad marriages in the past.

In fact, two commons themes that have emerged when speaking with friends in successful subsequent marriages are that 1) they are much better spouses the 2nd (or 3rd) time around; and 2) they wish they'd married their subsequent spouse the first time.

I find this curiously in discussions of sex as well. Some married people will tell me that sex isn't that important in marriage (so I can go ahead and marry that guy with questionable sexuality that they've suggested for me) while others will stress that it is a very important part of marriage.

While there are people out there with seemingly no capacity for empathy, even those who married later, I wonder if statements like the above mostly come from people who have spent little or no time being adult singles and I question why they encourage their children to marry if it is indeed reaches such high levels of difficulty. In any case, I think we'd all benefit from a little more transparency, and honesty but also from listening to each other's experiences. There doesn't seem to be one answer to this.

Posted By: Anonymous after @Ann | November 16, 2011 9:05 AM

@^^^ Even if I had known that the bottom would fall out of my life, that my husband would become someone I never knew, that he would end up in jail after attempting suicide, that he would be psychotic and it would be unsafe for our children to be around him, that he would have to leave our home while seeking treatment, that we would all have to live in the uncertainty of not knowing if he would ever be able to return to us, that even if he returns our life together and our relationship will NEVER be what I had thought/hoped it would be, that even if he is able to return to our home I will still for all intents and purposes function as a single mother... even if I had known all that, I still would have married him.

Posted By: R. | November 16, 2011 10:40 AM

@Christian Lawyer licensing is a good thing. If anything it provides creditability and anyone seeking counseling would be wise to consider it as part of their research. I believe where we disagree is the matter of the heart and motivation for strictly pursuing a licensed counselor, as I do not believe “Is s/he licensed or not licensed?” is the best question or primary determination of what is the best counseling approach for an individual to pursue. I have received invaluable wise and free counseling from people who are not licensed. I have probably given some as well and I do not believe it a “head in the sand” approach at all. I don’t want to get into the legal aspects too much because I am confident that you are correct in your legal position. I am simply stating that if Christians must go to court, biblical counseling sometimes leads to laying down ones rights and yes, sometimes taking a loss. No one wants to do that. I certainly don’t, but that does not change some of the biblical guidelines that we have concerning taking a Christian brother or sister to court, peacekeeping, and considering the needs of others higher than ourselves, etc (all of which go well beyond this discussion). So guess we can agree to disagree on this matter, yes?

@R Wow! Powerful testimony! I pray for peace and joy for you and your family, specifically over the holiday season. In Jesus Name, Amen.

Posted By: Nataha Robinson | November 16, 2011 11:39 AM

Natasha - thanks for your response and invitation to keep intearcting. I appreciate it!

You ask: "Should we be encouraging people to get married earlier (between the ages of 18 post high school - early 20s)?" *Personally* I think that's a *little* early (others would disagree... I would go with approx. 23-25, after college), but certainly, start offering good teaching about the joys and trials of marriage at that point -- not just the typical youth group messages of "date a Christian" and "don't have sex." And - as you suggest - offering opportunities for candid mentoring around marriage (from preparing, to getting there, to even... gasp... helping men and women form good couples! in a non-pushy or big-brothery way of course ;)) is completely within the realms of what I'd say the church could start doing to help form and foster godly marriages based on biblical principles... ones that have a good chance at lasting and a good chance of being joyful!

If young people don't get good and honest godly input about marriage at church or fellowship groups... where WILL they get it? So many are not fortunate enough to come from solid families (Christian or not) -- I do think the American Protestant church owes its young adults more than it's been giving them. I don't 100% agree with everything in "Theology of the Body" but I did find its principles admirable, and a good effort for offering *positive* (meaning, honest and not either idyllic OR overly pessimistic) teaching on the topic. They even had a teen version that was pretty enjoyable.

Looking back at my original answer I do think I was being a little reactive. I had just heard *yet another* preacher talk about how WONDERFUL it is to be single, and how it's preferable to being in a bad marriage. Well, yes, of course -- I don't wish I was in a bad marriage, I don't want to be married just for the sake of being married, and I don't wish a bad marriage on anyone else! But being not-married when you want to be certainly doesn't feel preferable to being in a GOOD marriage... so I don't understand why the situation posed to me is "Well, if you're not married yet... that must mean God is sparing you from a bad marriage!" :P Yes, there's some truth to that -- but man, it sure doesn't help me understand anything any better. Especially when it comes from someone MUCH older, who got married long ago, and who probably didn't spend much time as an unmarried young man.

Just say no to pat answers! :)

Posted By: Anne S | November 16, 2011 12:25 PM

The article is good and has obviously gotten a lot of positive comments by readers but I don't like the first sentence! I don't know where the author of this article goes to church, but my church doesn't lie to people! I haven't noticed anyone teaching little girls in their Sunday school class that when they get married they will live happily ever after. It is Hollywood and romance novels that makes one believe they will live happily after marriage.

Posted By: Susan | November 17, 2011 12:53 PM

@Ann S "If young people don't get good and honest godly input about marriage at church or fellowship groups... where WILL they get it?" Exactly. And there are no pat answers, just great questions that are worthy of our consideration if we are going to grow on this journey together.

Posted By: Natasha Robinson | November 17, 2011 6:06 PM

Tasha, This article hit me at the right time. God is so good. The only problem I have is that more than likley this kind of teaching will only be viewed/read by women. I feel that women bears so much of the responsiblites to help make a marriage work, be it good bad or indifference.

Posted By: UnaJ | November 18, 2011 10:07 AM

UnaJ, I'm not sure why you fear "that more than likely this kind of teaching will only be viewed/read by women." There are a few men who have already commented in this post, and more significant is the fact that the book Natasha was reviewing is written by a man.

Tim

Posted By: Tim | November 18, 2011 1:00 PM

Sadly, in America the divorce rate among self-professed Christians is not markedly less than it is among non-Christians. Consider the terrible irony that the covenant of marriage, the human relationship that symbolizes Christ’s relationship with His church, is just as fragile amongst His own people as it is among those who deny Him. Perhaps our infidelity to each other stems from our infidelity to the Bridegroom. If we cannot be faithful to Christ, what is the likelihood that we will ever be able to be faithful to each other? If anything, divorce seems to be the common denominator across all faith sin the United States. Protestant, Catholic, evangelical, non- evangelical and atheist or agnostic; the statistics are virtually identical. If there were a Scriptural bias against divorce, one would never know it by looking at actions of the church. The stigma of divorce, whether it is social or religious, has all but vanished.

Excerpted from The Four Pillars of the Kingdom
Available now on Amazon in Kindle and paperback formats.

http://bit.ly/joesbookshelf

Posted By: immaccon | November 18, 2011 1:23 PM

this article has helped me a lot and hope it is going to help me focused well in my marriage of 23yrs.

Posted By: Anonymous | November 20, 2011 11:44 AM

@immacoon Thanks for sharing book excerpt. I'm adding it to my ever growing reading list right now. Blessings, Natasha

Posted By: Natasha Robinson | November 20, 2011 9:35 PM

Nice article - it's good to be reminded that God intends all things for our sanctification (i.e. to make us holy and more like Him), marriage included.
However, how many marriages attain that goal? I have seen too many people who, after marriage, become selfish and careless with things of God. Many displace pleasing God, with pleasing their spouse. And we shouldn't be surprised: Paul knows that will be the case (1 Cor 7:32-34).
Marriage is God's means of allowing those of us who want to fulfill our sexual desires and have children. It is very hard to be undivided unto God in a marriage (don't make the mistake of equating your spouse with God), but it's harder for some to be single and sexually pure too. For the latter, it's better to marry. In this sense, marriage makes them holy, for they no longer sin sexually.
But beyond this limited area, marriage doesn't make a Christian holy -- it is the church together that trains us in holiness, for Paul writes that all of us, as the church, will grow "into a holy temple in the Lord" (Ephesians 2:21). Not that the married couples two by two will become a holy temple, but the universal church.
It is good to remind ourselves that if marriage makes us all holy, it will be eternal. But the Lord himself said we won't have marriage in heaven (Luke 20:34-37).

Posted By: Swee | November 22, 2011 1:23 PM

Sorry, you lost me reading your article about holiness in marriage when you said that you loved the movie the Notebook.
How can any one write an article on holy marriage when they love a movie that as i understand has some very strong sex scenes from two people who are not married.
This is fornication and you in your own words say you love it.

Posted By: Julie Turner | December 12, 2011 3:29 PM

I believe we should let Christ plan our lives, as His ways are higher than ours. I think preparing for your future is absolutely critical and Biblical, that is, opening your mind and heart to possibilities and readying yourself for quick action should God call you to it. However, action should always be God directed.

Posted By: Canada | January 18, 2012 8:00 PM

Natasha, thanks for bringing this "marriage" stuff up in your article here. Earlier in the month, Mark and Grace Driscoll released their book _Real Marriage_ to the world, and once again, while parts of the book may be beneficial (same stuff the church has been putting forth), I fear some of it may be further damaging to marriages.

We're starting to hear from our Christian male (and female) leaders that little girls should not be raised to believe they are princesses who will have a prince to rescue them, but I've yet to hear Christian leaders, male and female, flat out tell males that they shouldn't get married for the sex they believe they will receive.

It continues to disturb me when pastors and leaders take about "us" and "man's needs" and "woman's needs" instead of focusing on what God wants and needs from us in a marriage.

I will have to check out the Gary Thomas book. . . looks good!

Posted By: Emily | January 20, 2012 1:48 PM

We know marriage is in trouble. Pastors and Christian authors are stepping forward to save the day.Most in our culture do not view marriage as the covenant relationship that God intended.

Posted By: Nesta Aqiuno | March 12, 2012 5:18 AM

We live in culture where more and more people are living together/having children OUTSIDE of marriage. I have several friends who had sex with guy after guy and were only able to finally land a husband when either she accidentally got pregnant or the guy finally decided that he couldn't do any better after years of living together. Even the women that I've known in the church who were able to get married found their husbands outside of the church and then "converted" them to christianity. I agree that the issue is systematic rather than god *blessing* the majority of christian women with a lifetime of singleness and childlessness. I, unfortunately, grew up in an abusive home, and I spent the majority of my 20s in abusive relationships with men until I finally gave up on relationships. After the last wonderful christian man that I dated emotionally terrorized me into breaking up with him and then slapped me across the face, the women in the church were all in agreement that god must not have a husband *planned* for me. I've been ridiculed by family members, friends, women in the church, and people at work for my inability to land a husband and have children. I know I don't have a future. When god said that it's not good for man to be alone - he really did only mean men and not women.

Posted By: Anonymous | March 24, 2012 8:22 PM

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