Hermenuetics

Comments

I know that it is important to dress like church matters. I am homeless and I only own one pair of pants jeans, a few shirts that are well worn. Should I just not go to Church? I am so lost, I am embarrassed to looking this way but I am clean.

Posted By: Gerridette Schiavone | February 20, 2012 11:32 AM

I love clothes and loved Liftin's article, but, Laura, yours articulates for me what I couldn't in where I disagreed with Liftin's. Thank you.

Here's an article I wrote on clothes that connects with some of the themes in your post:

http://www.salvomag.com/new/articles/salvo12/12prior.php

Posted By: KSP | February 20, 2012 11:42 AM

I can see this issue evolving into one of those CounterPoints volumes published by Zondervan.... "What Should I Wear to Church: Four Views"

Posted By: Basil | February 20, 2012 11:56 AM

I am of two mind. I was raised as a pastors daughter in a church where you as a woman didn't step foot on the platform without a dress that was at least knee length and pantyhose, where my father was in a suit and tie even in summer. However, I currently attend a church where the pastor routinely preaches in jeans and a t-shirt, the worship team is very casual in jeans or shorts, our worship pastor is bald and ALWAYS has on a knit hat (his head gets cold).

I understand the whole "give your best to God", however, if in doing so we are not creating a welcoming atmosphere as the first poster pointed out, are we really doing what He has called us to do. I know my dad's heart, even though he dressed that way, it would have hurt him to his very core to think that someone such as Gerridette (the first poster) would be made to feel unwelcome. His heart is for the lost and hurting, just as Christ's is.

I think that as long as the naughty bits are covered, that's all that matters. Give God your best, but yes, that can be the best of your two shirts if that's all you have. Come barefoot if you want, I'll save you a seat and love you as Christ loves me.

Kara

Posted By: Kara Nutt | February 20, 2012 12:14 PM

True, some folks overdress to show off however many others under dress to stress their indifference. There is an awful lot of ungodliness. For quite a few dressing like a slob is not a matter of cost it is simply attitude.
Yes some folks are snobs and some are (deliberate) slobs, which are you?

Here is what our Savior said on this subject:

MATT 22:11-13 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Posted By: Charitas | February 20, 2012 12:20 PM

Please go to church - especially if you are homeless and only have one pair of jeans! Come as you are! I believe God doesn't care what we wear - he cares about the attitude of our hearts. If we wear something with the intention of attracting others or drawing attention to ourselves(midriffs showing, lots of cleavage, etc) well that is not right because the intention is not God-honoring. But if we wear clothes that reflect who we are - people who want to worship the Lord with other believers - then "style" doesn't really matter. And if someone in the church calls you out because of what you're wearing - find another church!

Posted By: Beth Ann | February 20, 2012 12:23 PM

To Gerridette,
You should go! And if people don't treat you kindly, try somewhere else. James instructs Christians to treat all without impartiality, not judging them based on their clothing (whether rich or homeless), and you will find a church that does this, even if it's not the first church you try. There's nothing embarrassing about seeking God and fellowship with his people: you honor God with your desire to seek him, and that matters far more than the clothes you are wearing. I will pray that you find a church that welcomes you in whatever clothing you wear, and a church that helps provide you with clothing when you need more.

Posted By: Anonymous | February 20, 2012 12:24 PM

To Gerridette,
Come to our Church we have a broad selection of garments we will gladly give to you. Many other congregations will do as much and more.

Better yet, sell your iPad and buy something for the purpose of honoring God, make it your offering.
If you only want to come on your own terms, you probably don't really want to worship.

Posted By: Charitas | February 20, 2012 12:43 PM

I was raised in a church culture where it very much mattered what you wore. Modesty was an issue, yes. But so was dressing up.

After college, I spent many years getting out of the mindset and wearing clean and modest, but distinctly casual clothes to church. This was when "come as you are" sank in to my psyche.

Now, I dress up in a casual church, because somewhere along the way I recognized that I *like* skirts and dresses. That they are *me* in a way jeans and t-shirts will never be. And so, alongside my usually jean-clad brothers and sisters, I come as I am.

For me, the freedom (to dress casually or not) came with the recognition that how I dress for worship is an expression of the fear of God rather the fear of man (or woman). I don't need to either conform to or rebel against social norms or expectations.

Posted By: Jennifer Ellen | February 20, 2012 12:55 PM

In response to the "homeless" woman who wrote a comment. Please do not be put off by an article that is speaking to many who might need a nudge to take deeper consideration to what they wear when they enter church. God honors our true hearts, and it is painful to be without a home. I know from personal experience. Sadly, the "church" can be a hard journey to navigate, because so many don't step deeply into their hearts. Look to God, and hold tightly to the fact that we are all fallen and not one of us can stand in our own merit next to the Holiness of God, and it doesn't matter what clothes we are wearing. Never stop seeking God's grace.

Posted By: Jacquelyn Baker | February 20, 2012 1:10 PM

@Charitas - I'm appalled and astonished that you would tell a homeless person to "sell your iPad" - what makes you think Gerridette has an iPad to sell? Many homeless people use the public library computers to access the internet.

As I read through this article I was thinking; "this is a nice problem for us to have." - no honestly. 2000 years ago; how many articles of clothing do we think Jesus had? I honestly don't know the answer. As long as someone is covered in such a way that they aren't purposely inciting lust in other church members then it really shouldn't matter what the person is wearing. A hygiene issue is a different story; but one that should be lovingly addressed and taken care of.

Posted By: Leslie | February 20, 2012 1:12 PM

Thanks for this sensible, thoughtful article. I am reminded of worshiping in a number of Christian Reformed churches in Cuba, where I have gone on teaching and training programs since 1985. Early in those years when the churches were rapidly growing, I was quite stunned at the sexually explicit clothing any number of young women were wearing to worship. After I'd been there for a while, I asked a few of the leaders what they did about that, because it was openly provocative.

Their reply, in condensed form: "Nothing. But if you hang around long enough, you'll see that when these women (and their families) continue to attend worship and take part in church life, in Christian discipleship classes and relationship, they will gradually begin to dress more modestly, not only at worship, but day to day as well."

In a word, the leaders' predictions (and past experiences) were borne out for those who continued attendance. The women and their families learned healthy clothing values from the counter-cultural Christians in their culture, which is at least as sexualized as ours. They were giving of their best to the Master in modesty, yet still were able to dress attractively--all in a visible witness to the power of Christ to transform habits concretely and effectively.

Posted By: James Dekker | February 20, 2012 1:12 PM

Anonymous-
Do you really think that someone who only owns one pair of pants has an Ipad? Don't be ridiculous. Sarah probaly posted her comments at a public library or somewhere where free computer acess is available. Sarah, not sure where you live, but if you are near Frisco, TX, north of Dallas, First United Methodist Church of Frisco would love to have you. I think the real question is our motives when we get dressed in the morning. Whether in flip-flops or a suit, both people can walk out their front door with the intention of honoring God throughout the day.

Posted By: Angela | February 20, 2012 1:23 PM

Ok, just realized that Giredette is the commenter and Sarah is the blogger, whoops. Giredette, (and Sarah) you would be welcome at our church. :)

Posted By: Angela | February 20, 2012 1:26 PM

Angela, I think you have the posting order a bit confused. The person who made a post's name is UNDER their post. It happens a lot, so not to worry.

To the topic at hand, I am still waiting for someone to bring a Bible verse to bear that deals directly with this issue and is not about modesty.

Posted By: Mark E. | February 20, 2012 1:35 PM

To Gerridette,

Disregard what I just wrote, just come to our Church.
Wear what you have just do your best.
Chances are no one will notice, many of the people who are better off than you will look far worse anyway by wearing expensive newly purchased grunge.
Were I in your situation I would find their appearance insulting.

Posted By: Charitas | February 20, 2012 1:35 PM

I'm once again shocked that an article of this nature and viewpoint is published. First where's the scripture involved? What did Jesus say about what you wear? If I remember correctly he mentioned not worrying about what you wear in Matt 6. I honestly do not care about what I wear to church. My worship does not start and stop at the door.

The authore says: How we respond to issues of clothing and dress can speak a great deal about our heart toward God. - I couldn't disagree more and am saddened once again by an article of this nature. Can CT offer a counter article of the opposite opinion? I'd be happy to compile something if you can't find an author.

Finally I find the most disgust with the article in the following quote: Can what we wear contribute to God’s redemptive action on this earth and in this moment? It feels a little silly to say, but yes. I believe it can.

Are you kidding me?

Posted By: Geoff | February 20, 2012 2:00 PM

If anything, Jesus made a point of dressing down. He instructed the twelve on their dirty, dusty missionary trip “ Don’t carry a traveler’s bag with a change of clothes and sandals or even a walking stick.” Do you think those fishermen were wearing suits, ties and wing tips? He warned the disciples about those holy ministers who wore special church clothing;
“Beware of these teachers of religious law! For they like to parade around in flowing robes and receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces.”
“Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside, and they wear robes with extra long tassels.” I feel sorry for those that feel like there must be a dress code for church. This is a real impediment to many as the first writer shows.
“And why worry about your clothing? Look at the lilies of the field and how they grow. They don’t work or make their clothing”
The author of much of the new testament was often without adequate clothing. “I have shivered in the cold, without enough clothing to keep me warm.” 2 cor 11:27
The old Sunday Go-To-Meeting clothes and fancy hats that one wore only for church are a joke and really insulting to poorer people. Sexually provocative clothing is probably inappropriate in any setting, not just Church. Paul said “And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearls or expensive clothes.”
James said; “suppose someone comes into your meeting dressed in fancy clothes and expensive jewelry, and another comes in who is poor and dressed in dirty clothes. If you give special attention and a good seat to the rich person, but you say to the poor one, “You can stand over there, or else sit on the floor”—well, 4 doesn’t this discrimination show that your judgments are guided by evil motives?” James 2. My opinion is that you should attend meetings dressed any way you feel comfortable. Ministers should make a POINT of dressing down, no robes, stoles, or fancy suits please. And then we need to rethink what we are saying when we talk about “going to church”. We are the church. Any time two or three are gathered Jesus is in our midst. Duane Liftin was really off-base and represents an artifact of 1960s American Churchianity.

Posted By: RickD | February 20, 2012 2:08 PM

"With this issue especially, we see divides along class and generational lines."

I disagree that clothing divides among class lines. Not in the 21st century, particularly not among women who can find a nice outfit relatively expensively if they go to the right stores (e.g. TJ MAXX, thrift stores, SALES). A pair of jeans and sneakers can easily cost more than a dress and sandals. Some people prefer to dress up or down depending on their profession or their tastes but it's difficult to determine the heart of any individual who chooses to dress up or down. Maybe they are neither showing off, nor sloppy, just there to worship.

Posted By: AC | February 20, 2012 2:10 PM

I'll further add that I do not like to wear jeans. I don't find them comfortable, I prefer dresses and I find it annoying to be judged for wearing a $14 dress by the jeans wearers who most likely paid more money for their jeans than I did for my dress. Some people are gifted with style and dressing down is not being true to myself. Why do the jeans wearers get to be morally superior?

Posted By: AC | February 20, 2012 2:19 PM

This is the third article in the last few months on the topic of 'Dress' in the church posted on CT. Me thinks this is becoming a real issue here.

Posted By: Basil | February 20, 2012 2:39 PM

STOP!

What are we doing? It is so easy to lose our focus. Come to Jesus, come just as you are. Come in your dress, come in your jeans and t-shirt, come with your broken-heart, come with your joy, come with your anger, come with your questions, come with your sorrow, come with hope, come with despair, just come to Jesus. I pray you will find people that will welcome you and care for you, and run this race with you. Oh how He loves us, oh how He loves you and me. Thank you, Jesus.

Posted By: kls | February 20, 2012 2:53 PM

I think this is an issue with Christianity Today because a significant part of their lineage comes from Presbyterians, evangelical Methodists and Episcopalians whose ministers make a point of wearing special religous clothing, long robes, clerical collars and stoles and whose American parishioners have traditionally worn their “Sunday best”. CT also represents the old guard American Churchianity, who worshipped in a building with a steeple, an organ and a robed choir (as I did). Saturday nights were spent shining shoes, ironing dresses, pressing pants and bathing all the children so one could be presentable in “Church”. Exactly the kind of clothing that Jesus, James and Paul warned against wearing – if you read the scriptures a few comments above. But we really don’t like to listen and prefer our man-made rituals and external regulations. In Liftin’s original article, one of the commenters was proud of the fact that he was loaning homeless people his ties so that they could go to church. Yikes.

Posted By: RickD | February 20, 2012 3:16 PM

I believe that you should look you best in public period. In church there should be a reverence to God and you should look you best there. If your best is a pair of jeans and a worn shirt then that is your best. Hopefully with God's grace you will no longer be homeless and you will be able to live life in abundance and overflowing. This is my prayer for you,Sarah.

Posted By: Steve | February 20, 2012 3:21 PM

Having grown up in a strictly legalistic independent Baptist church, we were to dress our best. There was great economic diversity in our church, so each one's "best" looked different from their pew neighbor. As I grew up and out of that church, I gravitated toward churches that stressed the "come just as you are" mentality, but I noticed something disturbing about these newer churches. They really weren't tolerant of those in their congregation (or visitors) who dressed up nicely for church. Although the pendullum had swung in the casual direction, both ends of that spectrum were still thoroughly legalistic--one accepting dressing your best and the other stressing dressing casually. Both made trend-buckers feel uncomfortable.

I do care about how I present myself in general and will dress (and groom) to make the maximum impact on those I'm with. When I'm in church, I'm with God and my Christian family, though my family dresses in very diverse ways. I don't love the long robes of the Pharisees, but if wearing one now and then will help me make a better impact on those who expect it, I don't mind making an exception.

Posted By: chdoctor | February 20, 2012 3:43 PM

@ chdoctor Hence I think that we might be able to conclude that 'Traditional' churches have their own traditions as well.

Posted By: Anonymous | February 20, 2012 3:49 PM

To Leslie,

It is good that you were appalled, I intended to be appalling.
In the context of this article and in many responses to it, the poor and the unfortunate are used as justification for what has become worship anarchy.
The well dressed rich looking ill towards the ragged poor is a straw man argument in our culture, I've never seen it happen.
Today just based on appearance, how would you know?
The correct answer is Gerridette is the one who is cleaner.
Really it is more appalling to use the poor and the unfortunate like merchandise to justify anti-dignifying appearance and behavior.
Such self willed expression does not honor our Lord and does not fulfill certain necessary elements of worship.
All these dress as you will proposals has an eye towards each other and of course themselves.
Note how few words in today's discussion are for grooming oneself to honor God.
But those who occupy the pews are what they are and no one really gives their appearance much thought.
What truly is appalling are the pastors and worship leaders who show up wearing very casual and even grunge apparel.
Often the men are partially shaved with their hair unkempt, trouser legs dragging under the heels of their sneakers, shirt tails partially hanging out.
The worship ladies are usually better groomed even if they deliberately dress down.
Many times they enjoy their Starbucks latte's during worship (between songs of course).
Who (including our Lord) can seriously consider such people?

To Gerridette,

Why would you even want to attend worship in such a place?

Posted By: Charitas | February 20, 2012 3:52 PM

I agree with Geoff. Please stop publishing articles that (1) don't serve to expand the discourse (for instance, this was essentially a 20-something's like-minded reiteration of Litfin's point) and (2) aren't grounded on Scripture, but the author's opinion of How Things Should Be.

On a more personal note, there is not much in this article that resonates with my personal experience of dress and church. I attend church with people at the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum. I am from middle class suburbia and own some beautiful clothing. I am tempted to dress in my best clothes and look put together because there is a guy I am interested in dating at our church. But I have learned that if I do dress up, it serves to divide me from the women in our congregation.

I don't want to tempt my sisters to be covetous of what I have (Romans 12:18 -- "live peaceably"), and I certainly don't want to flaunt my money. So, most Sundays, I choose to wear a simple pair of jeans, a flannel shirt and a modest (read: cheap) pair of earrings. As Paul advised the Corinthian church (which was also divided by socioeconomic status, if I remember correctly), "All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify."

I feel like this mentality, striving to die to self for the benefit of unity among us, honors God more than any of that "imitate Jesus by dressing to the nines" idea. Not that I am somehow pious for dressing down, but God is gracious in helping me dress in a way that TRULY honors him.

Posted By: Lyndsey | February 20, 2012 3:56 PM

In all things we are to act in love toward one another, and to do things in order not to cause weaker brothers and sisters to stumble. I waited until the last of a generation of older women had died before I wore (nice) jeans to church because it mattered to them.

Posted By: Ruth | February 20, 2012 4:01 PM

To Geoff,

You wrote: "What did Jesus say about what you wear? If I remember correctly he mentioned not worrying about what you wear in Matt 6"

Is that all? How about Matthew 22: 11-13 as mentioned earlier.

To anyone who thinks our Lord does not care about attire and grooming I will be glad to hand them their hats; to the ladies coming in to pray and worship and to the gentlemen as they leave.

Posted By: Anonymous | February 20, 2012 4:01 PM

Correction I meant to say Contemporary Churches

Posted By: Basil | February 20, 2012 4:05 PM

There is clear teaching from Christ on this matter in Matthew 23:24-27:

Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

What is important to remember in these Scriptures and in this discussion is the fact that God is not so impressed or concerned by our outward appearance as He is the condition of our heart.

Posted By: Richard Jones | February 20, 2012 4:21 PM

Here’s some advice. Leave clothing alone. It is a non-issue. I am always amazed at people with their “shoulds” and “beliefs”. Where do these come from? The last thing Jesus wants is for you to “look your best” or “dress for maximum impact on others”. Why do you think He told his 12 disciples to go on their missionary wearing only the clothes on their backs and 1 pair of sandals. No extras for dressing up or looking impressive. Those were long dusty roads and they were fishermen from Galilee. Why do you think He made fun of professional preachers who wore long robes and lengthened tassels. Why did James warn against those that had to fix up their hair for church, wear their pearls and finest clothing? I say, if a minister has a question about what he or she should wear in the pulpit, err on the side of dressing down. That is what Jesus and the early church did. Constantine introduced the robes, funny party hats, pomp and circumstance. Have you ever read of someone in spiffy clothes called Pastor Bob or Pastor Paul or Pastor Timothy in the New Testament? But as Jesus says in Matthew 23, we are addicted to our special clothing and “respectful greetings”. Even though He said of professional ministers “they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men. But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. But the greatest among you shall be your servant.” Matthew 23:7

Posted By: RickD | February 20, 2012 4:22 PM

To Geoff et al,

I can completely understand where you are coming from. What we wear to church, as believers, is not the most important issue in the world. Any person, regardless of what they are wearing, ought to be warmly welcomed into worship, and to do anything other than that is not only uncharitable but un-Christian.

However, as we grapple with various issues on this blog, I don't think there is a single one that is altogether theologically unimportant. If God is the God of all people and all things, then he is the God who cares about what we wear and how we think about other people. The question here is not whether or not God cares about what we wear, the question is, knowing that God cares about what we wear, because it has to do with the state of our soul, how do we proceed?

Much of what I'm saying here is not applicable to people visiting church for the first time. For those of us who know God and gather to worship him, the gist of what I am suggesting is that we think about what we wear with a considerate heart.

And AC, I understand what you are saying about the availability of nicer clothing at lower prices, but all you have to do is look at Garridette's comment above to know that class issues in church are rampantly alive. We need to never judge someone on the basis of what we are wearing, never worry about what we will wear, but trust God with the details of our future. But the command in Matthew 6 not to worry about what we will wear is a command not to worry, to trust in God -- not to be thoughtless or crude.

Posted By: Laura Ortberg Turner | February 20, 2012 4:45 PM

Call me a traditionalist if you like, but there was a time when we had standards in the church and in the nation that we lived by. We dressed up on special occasions such as church, weddings, funerals, PTA meetings, school concerts, etc. For recreation we dressed more casually, for routine get togethers we dressed less formally. Today it's not uncommon to see people at church, weddings, and even at funerals in shorts and halters. Some come in with shirttails hanging out, hair not combed, jeans with holes in them. I don't consider myself to be a legalist, but I believe it is healthy to maintain a certain standard of dress that is appropriate for certain occasions. Most importantly our dress should be descent, especially in the house of God. There seems to be an obvious lack of respect for God and his house by some that is evidenced by the way they dress. I wonder if some of the people who "dress down" for church would wear the same attire to eat with the president if they were invited to the White House? As far a those who are unable to "dress up" in nicer clothes than others, the issue is to look nice in the clothes you have.
My concern is not with those who are unable to dress as well as others when they attend church, but with the ones who are able, but choose not to honor God and his house with their dress.

Posted By: Arnold Ball | February 20, 2012 4:48 PM

Correct; with regard to pastors it's not about clothing, the problem arises when they deliberately groom themselves to look like bums while pretending to represent the Lord.
With regards to the congregants, it's about self; me, me, me, I, I, I! To them, humility, a broken and contrite heart is not a worthy sacrifice (that concept no longer exists).
Hardly anyone cares about really coming to Church to worship God (by the way Lyndsey I hope you get to date that guy you have your "I" on).

Projecting present attitudes into the future, Church will become located in a Mall right between a Starbucks (I actually love Starbucks) and a grunge boutique for maximum convenience. Congregants could even go shopping between choruses.
I may already be too late with this prophesy, may the Lord forgive me for still being too subtle.

Posted By: Charitas | February 20, 2012 5:00 PM

To Laura,

With all due respect( and I mean that), where is the scripture in what you're saying? Where is the precident? If anything the apostle Paul discussed dressing modestly not someone's "Sunday best".

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that" If God is the God of all people and all things, then he is the God who cares about what we wear and how we think about other people." How do you go from God being the God of all people to him caring about appearance? That seems like a stretch. And I am open to the idea I may be misreading what you are saying. But again where is the scriptural precident?

Again another unscriptual stretch: "knowing that God cares about what we wear, because it has to do with the state of our soul"... please do explain further because I can't find this in the word.

All this being said I have great respect for you and your husbands ministry and beliefs. I struggle with the fact that I personally know people who do not set foot in church because they literally can't afford to dress as the pastor and congregation dress with their $300 jeans and coat and ties.

But the Lord said to Samuel, Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7

Posted By: Geoff | February 20, 2012 5:12 PM

Laura Ortberg, does God care about what we wear. Yes! And everytime He mentions it in scripture he urges his disciples and ministers to dress down. It matters to Him. He hates pretense and religous professionalism, Sunday finest and dressing to look sharp at church. Be thoughtful and dress down. Show some respect for Jesus, James and Paul’s opinions. And yes Arnold, you are a traditionalist, which is not necessarily a virtue. Please read the scriptures. Jesus EXPLICIT advice is not to worry about nice clothing. What is this “deliberately groom themselves to look like bums”? No pastor does that, get real. That is a comment that reflects a kind of clothing snobbery. And besides, what does a bum look like?

Posted By: Rickd | February 20, 2012 5:25 PM

There are a lot of things we do in churches that are not, strictly speaking, "in Scripture." So, I am not sure that is a reasonable argument against appropriate dress.

I do know that clean, modest clothing in church, especially if you can manage it, is not a bad thing. That doesn't mean a homeless person shouldn't go or be welcomed, but that we should approach the asking of God to come into our presence with some reverence and respect. (After all, He is the Sovereign Lord of the Universe, and as someone pointed out, if we were to go see the President, most of us would wear our best clothes!)

Churches have become more like sporting events, with people eating, yakking and wearing any old thing, no matter how revealing of slovenly.

Even in pioneer days in America when settlers had next to nothing, they always had their "Sunday best." It's a mindset to bring your best to God not a requirement designed to keep people out.

Thank you for an interesting topic.

Posted By: Anonymous | February 20, 2012 5:49 PM

Hello Geoff,

Please don't misunderstand, however it seems to me you believe God does not care about appearance, attire and grooming.

You mentioned Paul emphasizing dressing modestly as a justification for the liberty being discussed, this is an instruction on attire. God cares.
He also stressed other specific forms of attire and gave reasons to do so.
You would be hard pressed to find Churches today (in USA & Canada) that heed his specific instructions.
As this is true today it was not always so, why?
Please take the time to examine Paul's details for yourself (it is found in the paragraph preceding the section on the Lord's Supper).

Thank you for reminding us that our Lord looks at what is in our hearts not what is on our backs.
Please understand my concern that justifications made for the placing of certain clothing on their own backs is revealing of what is truly in their hearts.
Whether faithful or deceptive God will not be fooled by what is truly in our hearts.

Posted By: Charitas | February 20, 2012 5:50 PM

To RickD,

You say No pastor dresses like a bum?
Excuse me, but I have seen several and of course that includes worship leaders.
I am telling you the truth, if you believe that not to be so you would change your mind simply by broadening your experience.

I do stand corrected with my use of the term "bum", it is an unkindness by me towards many homeless, especially hobos and some others who are striving to the best of their ability. I truly am sorry and I apologize.
Thank you for pointing it out to me.

My most recent encounter with an awkwardly dressed pastor was a few months ago.
If you can grasp the visual impact, his appearance was as if he had groomed himself with a beer bottle.
The worship team was not much better.
Oh, and this was not a poor church, there were several thousand in attendance.
I must say their hor d'oeuvres at fellowship time were exceptional.

Posted By: Charitas | February 20, 2012 6:14 PM

Saw those Galilean healers today. What an embarrassment. It was obvious they were back country uneducated fishermen. They couldn’t even bother to change their clothes when they preached. Their feet were covered with dust and mud, looked like they had been hiking for miles on backroads. Their clothes were dirty and stained form the journey, I don’t think they had changed in days. In fact I know they hadn’t, because I heard their leader told them NOT to take an extra set of clean clothes or shoes on their preaching tour. LOL! All 12 of them looked pretty rank. The only thing worse was that preacher character in the desert who was wearing a stinky old camel hide. They say all he eats are grasshoppers and I believe them. Looked like he combed his hair with a wine jug. Way to make an impact for God! I heard that Jesus even called him the greatest prophet ever born. If he is so great, why can’t he wear something that honors God instead of intentionally dressing like a bum?

Posted By: RickD | February 20, 2012 6:50 PM

The Galilean healers must have been a sight at that.
They would probably take exception to being described as uneducated though, and I would not want to go up against any of them in the knowledge and understanding department.
They probably wouldn't care too much for my sport coat and ascot, especially if I tried to board ship with them.

Now grasshoppers for hors d'oeuvres there's an idea, it could catch on.

Thank you RickD I really enjoyed your illustration.

Posted By: Charitas | February 20, 2012 7:12 PM

At a time when attendances at Church as a % of the population is falling, well in my country anyway, and the Church seems to be less and less relevant to most, is what are we talking about here is the equivalent to quote "re setting the deck chairs on the Titanic"?
It is obvious that most have not been to church under a tree in the heat, dust and flies with dogs walking about and some time fighting in the service. Christ is still there.

Anything which is a barrier to entry is wrong. We have enough barriers as it is. I have been where a man was turned away as he was wearing motor bike leathers. It

I would also suggest that to outsiders the formal and informal rituals of Church are a barrier to the uninitiated. Currently I am between fellowships, in my late 60’s with a long history of Church activity. It is interesting to observe and meditate on the reaction as one attends a new church. The first question is, Do I stop and have coffee afterward? I have walked straight out of several fellowships.

I feel that you have at most 2 Sundays to hold the attention of the visitor. To join a group requires considerable investment of time and effort by the newcomer, so do not make it worse. It hard enough making contact as it is.

Posted By: John Holmes | February 20, 2012 7:15 PM

For the poor who don't have much to wear: don't sweat it. But since most reading this are probably outrageously wealthy by most of the world's standards, you have no excuse for showing up at church in ratty shorts and a stained hoodie. That just suggests you don't care how you look when you can clearly do better. In many cases, the way you dress is an outward reflection of what's inside, and who wants to come before God being indifferent, apathetic, and lazy? (I'm mostly thinking about guys here, by the way.)

Now, I go to church casually (usually in jeans, boots, and a western shirt, leather jacket, etc.) so I'm not saying you have to dress really formal. But there's a big difference between dressing to attract attention and dressing nice. For example, my clothes are mostly made in Japan and rather expensive by most people's standards, but the price is in the quality of materials and first-world construction, and look modest and don't really stand out to 99% of people.

On the other hand, you could probably put together a cheap outfit of a rhinestone suit, mirrored tie, and red fake gator-skinned boots for under $100 and made by Chinese child slave labor, that was designed to attract attention. Price does not equal morality in any sense.

Posted By: Kyle | February 20, 2012 7:20 PM

Does God care what we dress like? Doubt it. Most of Christ's teaching had to do with the inward not the outward. When will we figure out that giving God your best has nothing to do with what you wear, but what you think and do.

I am surprised that in this day and age we are recycling arguments from 30-40 years ago when it was about men's hair length and beards.

I guess some people will now be complaining about the worship song "Come As You Are To Worship".

Posted By: Steve D | February 20, 2012 7:22 PM

Rickd loved your illustration. That would be a good discussion point...Would the disciples be allowed in our churches today?

Posted By: Steve D | February 20, 2012 7:28 PM

No Steve D,

The important question is would any of us (including me and you) spoiled, self centered, narcissistic, snotty, brats be worthy of being in the presence of a holy apostle?

Be careful when trying to justify with words of what you say Jesus thinks, it is very easy to blaspheme (you post moderns can go look it up).
Most of us (me too) have been guilty today of cherry picking Bible verses and concepts.
Such endeavors are best preceded and followed with prayer and contemplation.
Be careful though, He is not merely our heavenly buddy, He is the Lord God of all creation and our only hope of salvation.
Serve Him well or not at all, (ego get thee hence).

Posted By: Charitas | February 20, 2012 8:05 PM

My oh my, for something that everybody seems to say doesn't matter.....there sure is a lot of chatter. Maybe it should be examined more closely.

Posted By: Tom | February 20, 2012 8:51 PM

Charitas,you stated,

"You mentioned Paul emphasizing dressing modestly as a justification for the liberty being discussed, this is an instruction on attire. God cares.
He also stressed other specific forms of attire and gave reasons to do so."

I mean this with all seriousness--could you please list those other times Jesus stressed other specific forms of attire and the reasons he gave? If you can find any that are not addressing modesty or avoiding showing off, I'd truly like to hear them.

I'm not arguing that anyone needs to dress down at church, but that it is the REASONS we choose to dress however we dress that matters to Jesus. In this way, Laura is right. God cares about almost all we do, but He is really looking at why we are choosing to do it--whether it is how we dress, what entertainment we take in, what food we eat, etc.

Posted By: Mark E. | February 20, 2012 10:56 PM

Mark E,

As you request, a specific instruction from our Lord was made several times earlier in this blog (Matt 22:11-13).

As to the remainder of your comment I agree, you are quite right.

Thank you.

Posted By: Charitas | February 21, 2012 12:03 AM

This will always be a point of contention, as well as tattoos and peircings. Come as you are, sure, in your spiritual condition, but don't stay that way. Whose body is it?Does it reaaly belong to you, or God? who do you want to mimic and bring attention to? your sexy heeled feet? your round shapely breasts in a bikini top? your tatooed caricatures? fifty peircings? what does it say about your inner attitude of gratefulness to God for your health and your other blessings? The outside will reflect what is really going on inside.(pagans do as they do in unbelief, but if you follow Jesus you do what honors him.

Posted By: k tra | February 21, 2012 1:46 AM

Charitas, what does that verse have to do with how we dress? That is obviously a parable about our spiritual condition at the time of judgment, not about how we dress. It is about having on the white garments purified by Christ, not about wearing a suit to a wedding.

There has still not been one Biblical passage brought up that directly (or even indirectly) asks us to dress up for a worship service.

And for the several times it has been brought up about what we would wear to meet the President, that just goes to further prove the opposite point. The vast majority of people who dress up for the President (or weddings and funerals, etc.) do so because it is expected--it is cultural convention. You will be look at oddly or treated differently if you don't conform. It is not to honor those you are meeting.

I know my own heart well enough. If I dress up it would be too meet expectations, not because I felt I was honoring God. If I can present myself at church with a contrite spirit with the intent of honoring him in my words, songs, and actions, then I have come to honor God.

I think Paul's words on our freedom in Christ apply here. As long as we are not causing others to stumble and we are dressing however we dress with our hearts in the right mode toward God, then we are free to dress in a way that works for us.

Posted By: Mark E. | February 21, 2012 8:55 AM

Thinking about this more, I dress up because it makes me feel more alive. It helps me to celebrate being alive more. It may not be a scriptural reason, but dressing up does make me feel better. Yes, I could wear jeans and t-shirts every day, but I could also eat peanut butter and jelly every day. No one seems to think it's morally wrong to make and eat food that livens the palate and enjoy that aspect of life.

I do find it difficult to believe that a person cannot obtain a few items of clothing for free, at a church or elsewhere, with the amount of excess/waste we expend in this country. People may go homeless, but there is little need to starve or go naked when there is ample opportunity to take giveaways. I have plenty of items in my closest that were given to me. But as others have stated, I think this is less of an argument of the poor than an argument of the middle class.

Personally, I find, and yes, I do get judged for dressing nicely at church activities, that although there are plenty of people who just don't care, there are also many people who don't know how to dress well and use their insecurities against people who do. Most of these people have more money than I do, they just don't have a talent or desire for dressing.

In any case, this is a good opportunity for all of us to get to know our neighbors better, rather than to make assumptions about their motive or even their socio-economic status. If someone is dressed too poorly or too well for your tastes, find out a little more about that person than just how they are dressed.

Posted By: AC | February 21, 2012 9:04 AM

Growing up, my mom always encouraged me to dress my best for God. For me that meant either a dress or skirt every Sunday. Later when I became a Christian and learned more about God and myself, I learned that even my best clothes are filthy rags to God. Since God is concerned with my heart I use this freedom to wear what I feel like wearing that day. Cold? Jeans and a sweater work fine. Have some extra time to get ready? A skirt and heels is fun.

I agree with the article that what you wear to church can show a bit about your relationship to God and others. However, discerning other's intentions through their clothing is also like reading tea leaves. You're not exactly sure what's going on.

Posted By: MelissaT | February 21, 2012 10:35 AM

Paul covered this in Romans 14, didn't he? His point in verse 14 says it all - "I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself."

So according to Paul's understanding of what is appropriate in God's sight (what is clean), wear jeans or a suit, wear a hoodie or an argyle sweater, wear tennis shoes/wingtips/sandals or go barefoot. It is all part of our freedom in Christ (Gal. 5:1). Any efforts to set guidelines for how we dress (or anything else) are just what we don't need, since they will lead to a yoke of slavery, and Paul was very clear about how bad that is (Gal. 5:12).

Cheers,
Tim

P.S. Mark E. (February 21, 2012 8:55 AM), thank you so much for your comment on the parable of the wedding clothes. I was thinking the same thing as I read this long string of comments. Glad you got to it before I finished reading them all.

Posted By: Tim | February 21, 2012 10:43 AM

Matt 22:16 is a parable describing the Marriage supper of the Lamb in the Kingdom of God.
One of the seated guests chose to not wear the appropriate clothing.
Yes, the point to this parable is about a spiritual condition(s), or more to point attitude.
Our Lord conveyed this idea using and illustration well understood to His immediate culture, I might add it is not well understood to our culture today but that is our problem.
Much has been said about how little Jesus cares about what we wear, these verses clearly show His willingness to use an example of appropriate attire in relation to attitude, He really did care and He knew His listeners did as well.

Here is another example that speaks to the Church as we experience it today.

REV 3:17-19 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Jesus again is rebuking this time the object is the Church at Laodicea, we today are very much like that church.
Yes the white raiment refers to a spiritual condition however Jesus is clearly not indifferent to appearances (we say we are OK He says we are naked).

Still don't believe there is an attitude problem?
Here is an example of today's church violating an explicit instruction on attire, many will rationalize this away but that is impossible to do so without revealing ignorance or a self willed attitude.

1CO 11:2-7 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. Every man praying or prophesying, having [his] head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

Today it often happens men meet in worship wearing a hat, and it is rare to see women wearing even a head scarf.
Yet this instruction does not allow for options it even explains the purpose for heeding.

Is this just Paul's opinion or is it a command?
Is this instruction only to the Corinthians 2000 years ago?
Do we have authority to negate these words?

Finally after the fall Adam and Eve covered themselves with fig leaves because they were naked.
God's opinion was fig leaves are inadequate so He made for them proper clothing.
Yes, this too is a spiritual application foretelling Calvary, still here is clear example contrasting man's opinion with God's on how to dress.

Incidentally, the worlds oldest profession is not that employed through tawdry women, it is tailoring, and God is the head seamster.

Posted By: Charitas | February 21, 2012 10:49 AM

Charitas,

Again, the parable of the wedding feast and the passage in Revelations are not talking about actual clothing, but our HEARTS being purified by and before Christ.

The passage on headcoverings is one we could talk about, but it is a separate issue. Nowhere there (or anywhere else in the Bible) does it instruct us to dress up for worship. If it did, then you could say we are being disobedient, but it doesn't.

And as with all issues, you have to take the whole counsel of Scripture and not just one verse. People throughout the comments have amply shown that there are a myriad of passages that warn us from showing off, warn us to be modest, and warn us to be mindful of our brothers and sisters, but there are none that tell us to dress our "best" at church.

As for Adam and Eve, they took what was handy to cover themselves. God gave them something more permanent. There is nothing in that passage that suggests that we should then get all dressed up. And if you want to take it in that direction could it then be interpreted to mean we should all were animals skins because that is what God made for Adam and Eve?

If it helps you to honor God by dressing a particular way, by all means. . . do it! But don't try to turn that personal choice in your freedom in Christ into a prescription for all believers.

Posted By: Mark E. | February 21, 2012 11:21 AM

There is a person contemplating suicide. A marriage ending. A teenage girl confused by the abortion she will have tomorrow. A woman abused. And the list goes on and on. All these people are SITTING NEXT TO US IN CHURCH, and our concern is the clothes we are wearing????? What a sad, sad commentary.

Posted By: Steph | February 21, 2012 11:30 AM

Charitas, why are you quoting those verses as if they refer to clothing? So if I am not dressed up for heaven, if I don’t realize there is a dress code, I am thrown out? That has been true of some churches where worship is treated like a private country club. Or, is it referring to being covered with Jesus’s robes of righteousness instead of our own filthy rags of religion? Or the counsel to buy white clothes from Jesus. You know what that means and it does not mean that we should all be dressed in white like milkmen or subscribe to Jesus’s tailoring service. Do you really think that Paul is mandating that all women wear veils in church or is he talking about a principle of authority? Is wearing dead animal skins God’s commentary on fashion or is he making a point that our sin needs to be covered by the shedding of blood? There are explicit scriptures which I quoted above, that deal directly with the practical matters of clothing. Because, as Laura says, what we wear is a valid topic for theology. We are never urged to dress up for meetings. In fact, Jesus criticizes fancy religious clothing and urges his disciples to dress down. Put away the fancy robes, expensive clothes, lengthened tassels, stop worrying about dressing up. To the point where he refused to let his 12 missionaries carry an extra set of clean clothes. The greatest prophet on the planet wore a stinky old camel skin. Impressing one another with clothes, fancy titles and possessions is a symptom of spiritual sickness. Jesus was all about identifying with the poor and lowering the bar for entrance into the Kingdom instead of playing church and looking successful like the Pharisees.

Posted By: Rickd | February 21, 2012 11:39 AM

Overall, clothing doesn't matter, but in the details we are told whatever we do (in word, thought, whatever) we should bring God glory (1 corinthians 10:31). When it comes to clothes (if we have a choice) we should just not be a distraction. We as people are God's people. If someone sees us they ought not to be focused on us but Jesus.

If we can we should try to come to church (or anywhere in public) clean just because someone who is dirty or smelly is a distraction. BUT, if we can't help that, no matter. God just wants us to come to Him. Come as we are.

And yet, the flip side is that sometimes if we are a distraction God will use it to catch someone off guard to speak to them. My 12 year old son cannot talk or walk but he often makes loud noises in church. i used to kind of be embarrassed about this until someone told me when he is making loud noises in church they see God.

And really, we ought not be worried about other people's clothing. We just need to present ourselves as God calls us too. Leave others to God. If they need to change, He'll tell them.

Posted By: Jane Hinrichs | February 21, 2012 11:53 AM

This comment is for Sarah Pulliam Bailey. Please be assured that what you have to wear to church is absolutely fine. The most important thing is dressing modestly, having new clothing or stylish clothing is not important to God and shouldn't be to Christians.

Posted By: Tensel Heiler | February 21, 2012 12:00 PM

Dear Mark E,

I do not advocate for mandatory "dressing up" certainly the scriptures as well do not.
If you are looking for a scriptural definition regarding black tie vs white tie of course it will not be there I do not suggest that is the case

"our HEARTS being purified by and before Christ" is reading into this parable an idea that is not explicit.
I too am reading meaning into this parable to the point that Jesus did speak words regarding proper attire.
It has been mentioned by others that Jesus is indifferent on the subject, his choice of words shows the opposite.

Adam and Eve dressed themselves with their own understanding, God was clear that their understanding was inadequate. Many on this blog say God doesn't care, ask yourself "did God care?"
I do wear animal skins, don't you?
Is it to be assumed that the skins Adam and Eve wore were coarse or unrefined? (I think we all too often form our ideas from images created in movies).
Was God incapable of forming refined garments?

It has been stated by many on this blog that:

*Jesus doesn't care about clothing, but He does indeed care.
*"Dressing up" is the attitude problem (looking down ones nose), clearly the attitude problem is the exact opposite, that of deliberately dressing and grooming in an anti-dignified manner (attitude, attitude, attitude).
*Jesus and His disciples dressed in rough, dirty, work clothes and had dirty feet, we don't know how the disciples dressed but Jesus' garment was refined and valuable and the feet of everyone back then were on average cleaner than ours today due to the custom of frequent foot washing.

I will not separate out the head covering discussion.
Why does the church today do the opposite of what Paul requires?
Is it coincidence it is this same church culture that wants to justify deliberate and disgusting grooming?
Using reversal propaganda methods the argument is directed against those avoid sloppiness (those who "dress up" are arrogant).

I put it to you that those who "grunge" are arrogant, and arrogance does go to the HEART that so many insist Jesus primarily regards.

Posted By: Charitas | February 21, 2012 12:18 PM

What about a logo? About a year ago, I decided that I wouldn't wear anything to a worship service that had a logo on it. That time is set apart for God, not for advertising something else, even if unintended.

If it has a logo, it is advertising. So, even though my nicest golf shirts have come from my workplace, I don't wear them because of the logo.

Posted By: lfunk | February 21, 2012 12:28 PM

Charitas, with each post you go further afield. You assert things without any evidence to back them up. You speak of an "attitude" that no one here is displaying. You take Scripture passages and assign meaning to them that is simply not there, and just by repeating them your meaning is no clearer. If those passages are actually talking about what we wear and not the state of our heart, then show us how they are saying that. Up to this point you just state your thoughts and give no reason for why. You give no evidence from the text itself to back up what you say.

Could God have made "refined" clothes for Adam and Eve? Sure. But does the Bible say He did? No. And it certainly doesn't say that because God made refined clothes for them, that all of His followers should henceforth do likewise whenever they gather together.

Are there some people who have an attitude problem about dressing up or dressing down and look down their noses at those with the opposing view? Sure, but what does that have to do with the discussion here? You will find this true of any issue. The question at hand is whether God gives us instructions in His Word on the matter of whether we need to dress up for church. So far, there are lots of Scripture put forth to discount this and none that supports it.

Posted By: Mark E> | February 21, 2012 12:50 PM

I hate looking at people who look like they just rolled out of bed, especially if they are still wearing their pajama bottoms...it seems lazy. And don't get me started on the look that screams "homeless" but actually is quite expensive to pull off...that seems hypocritical and makes me laugh. Come on people, comb your hair, brush your teeth, and iron your shirt :)......

Posted By: Cindy | February 21, 2012 1:49 PM

Interestingly, those who visit various churches in various parts of town and parts of the country will notice that the issue of wealth vs poverty is often counter to what's in the comments above: it's very often the case that churches with large numbers of working-class and even poor people are much more dressed up in Sunday-best than those in other socioeconomic strata. At an upper-middle-class church you're more likely to find guys in dockers and girls in pants.

(The subject of why and how churches are so socioeconomically stratified is one that CT *should* be covering in depth.)

Meanwhile, in the original post, the author writes that her brother "works hard to cultivate a space where other people can" enter "into worship with a grateful heart." In the church he's in he can do that barefoot. The author, though, never gets to the point of discussing whether there's a church in which that same brother would be a better worship leader by wearing shoes. In his hard work to cultivate an atmosphere of worship, certainly he plays music that the congregation finds good. If he consistently played in a way they found harsh or distracting or inappropriate (no matter how appropriate and undistracting it may be in another context), then he's simply not a good worship leader.

I'd say the same thing about clothes. If he's working hard on creating an atmosphere, then his appearance is surely part of that atmosphere. It's wonderful that he's found a church that's a good fit for him — but surely we all recognize that, in the great and multifaceted Body of Christ that is the worldwide church, that billion-footed beast, not every church is?

Posted By: bbbbarry | February 21, 2012 2:47 PM

Perhaps when thinking about clothing in the context of Christ we should all remember that on a global scale in the US we are all in the 1% (to steal a phrase). Rather than focusing on the clothing we put on our backs each day (or Sunday) maybe we should focus more on the amount of clothing we put in our closets routinely. Do we really need it? Couldn't the money and resources we spend on all of our clothing be used more effectively to serve the those in need around the world?

Posted By: Seth | February 21, 2012 4:31 PM

We must remember, however, that Litfin does not mention cost at all. And it is an important omission. He is not saying we should necessarily wear our most expensive clothes. While a new suit is (in most cases) more expensive than new jeans, one can find suits and jackets for VERY cheap at second hand thrift stores. It's not an issue of money or expense, its an issue of reverence. (coming from a 21 year old college student).

Posted By: Ed | February 21, 2012 7:36 PM

This is simple: We are all free. Lets stop trying to limit each others freedom with topics like this that cause us to quarrel and promote disunity. We should be loving each other, not focusing on superficiality and adding extra rules that are burdensome. I don't go to church and covet my sisters' clothing or anything else and I'm grateful that we all have our own styles. If you do covet, that is *your* heart problem. It's not the fault of the person who has what you want. Lets stop shifting blame. We are all convicted differently and I personally have never felt convicted about the clothes I wear. I wear what I like and I hope others do the same because we can't live our lives worrying about what other people think. Besides, if your focus in church is on what other people are wearing, maybe it's time to readjust the lens because it's certainly one of the least important things ever.

Posted By: J | February 21, 2012 7:56 PM

Laura's kid brother did not come as he is, he was dressed.
When i was rebuked for wearing a suit, I commented that I treat God with as much respect as I do my patients.It is also a matter of celebration. Worship is festival as well.Of course the cultural setting makes a difference. In India I would wear short-sleeved shirts, but definitely not shorts.Here 'holy' cardigans are in, jackets out - for some reason that is the spiritual thing to do. Hands in pockkets when praying also are spiritual, and show how intimate we are with God!

Posted By: David Troughton | February 21, 2012 10:25 PM

I find this an interesting response. It seems to read in Liftin's article something that he did not advocate once: a particular dress code. The negative responses, the passionate discussion against the suit and tie makes me think that those who are less formal, are not really as Christlike and meek as they portray themselves to be, or as their jeans, flip-flops and tshirts say they are. Seriously, so a suit is banned? It's a mask and front? What, I cannot wear a suit and tie anymore because it's synonym of pompous? Oh Jesus wore sandals and a tunic... Yeah he did, like most people in his time... But he also hung out with prostitutes, lepers, outcasts an then died on a cross... Don't see you guys doing that... Lame excuse to want to impose YOUR FASHION and ATTIRE PREFERENCE on those who want to be formal at church. Read the posts, the anti formal crowd gets all riled up cause some "old timer" asked a simple question... To consider what we wear to church... And the informals take it as fighting words... So is worship about God, really? Or is it about you wanting to come and worship YOUR WAY AND Your STYLE... Whatever that style is... There was a guy in the Bible who made that mistake... He brought what ever he wanted, the best, but what HE WANTED... God did not accept HIS best, he got so pissed, that he went and killed his brother...don't hate on the suit, don't hate on the informal... And don't read into an article something that is not there. Pray about it... Maybe the Holy Spirit is trying to say something to our "it's all good" generation that can't be tolerant with a tie or a suit or a nice dress.

Posted By: Harold | February 21, 2012 10:44 PM

Harold, it seems like you are not getting the point of the comments. Several people are arguing against dressing up specifically, but most of us are looking for someone who comes from the "dressing up" side of the argument to give some Biblical meat to their argument. So far, no go.

I think most people here have no problem with whatever you want to wear to church, as long as you do it for the right reasons and are not trying to make it a rule for everybody to follow.

Posted By: Mark E. | February 21, 2012 11:38 PM

Right Mark: It seems to me that no one got Liftin's article, and especially our blogger. There is no prescribed code even though he does hint a more formal side or at least for the informals to consider why they wear and the formats too. As far as meat for the informals... "worry not about dress" has nothing to do with "dress down like a teenager in hughschool" it has everything to do with the trust in God to provide all of our needs, terrible exegesis. Also "the sending of the apostles" with only one tunic is not an indication to what to wear or what not to wear, it's all about the practicallity of the missionary and the focus of the mission. Not prescribed attire of the Christian. So, meat from the tshirt crowd? Neither. The religion of Christ is a religion of simplicity, that however does not automatically imply the Abercrombie tshirt and the banana republic sandals with the Guess jeans.

Posted By: Harold | February 22, 2012 1:26 AM

.It is also a matter of celebration. Worship is festival as well.Of course the cultural setting makes a difference.

Posted By: Mayoristas de ropa | February 22, 2012 2:53 AM

Harold, you are putting up a strawman argument with your comments about Abercrombie and Banana Republic. Maybe you are speaking of people in your own life, but no one here is advocating what you speak about. You are just avoiding the main argument made all throughout the comments--that is that the Bible speaks NOTHING in favor of getting all decked out for worship while there are MANY passages that address the ideas of freedom in Christ, not being pretentious or showing off, being modest, and being mindful of our brothers and sisters. Most of the comments here are saying, dress as you like as long as your heart is in the right place toward God and you are not offending others who are there. There was plenty of meat, you just chose to ignore it. Just because you don't like the style that some folks wear, it is still just that--a style. Not wrong or right, just a style. I'm not saying what we wear doesn't matter to God, but I am saying it doesn't matter in the way that both Liftin's and this article are saying it does.

Posted By: Mark E. | February 22, 2012 7:21 AM

Abercrombie tshirt, banana republic sandals with the Guess jeans? Harold, everyone knows that's a fassion faux pas... I'm kidding

Harold I see your point and to agree with you to a degree. Bottom line, from those who appose a certain dress code, I think from what I've read and posted, folks have a problem with being told what is acceptable to God. They feel their hearts have been judged. I don't think most people who have posted above have a problem with whether others are dressing up or down they have a problem with people telling them they must dress a certain way. For myself I'd be frustrated with either someone telling me that I am less "spriritual" to do one or the other. And unless I'm misreading the article above, that's exactly how it is coming across to me; that I'm not concerned enough with the things of God if I don't dress my best. As for me, i typically don't think twice because my worship doesn't start and stop at the doors of a church building.

Posted By: Geoff | February 22, 2012 8:45 AM

A different take on all this...

I was doing street ministry in our town with a local pastor. A lady whom the pastor knew came by with her child. She was obviously in a low-income situation. She had been to his church once before and he invited her back. I'll never forget her response: "I don't have any nice clothes to wear to church." I'll never forget his gracious answer, "I'll buy you a dress for church." and he gave her a big hug.

When "church clothing" puts a barrier to someone coming to fellowship it is a tragedy. I know that this is an extreme example, though it's probably more common than we'd like to think. We need to not care about clothing. Church culture saves no one. Neither does church clothing...but it may exclude someone.

Posted By: Tom | February 22, 2012 9:41 AM

I think that this article got off of Dr. liftins origanal article. He said and introduced a few things to set it up but he summed it up, un my oppinion anyway, that your dress WAS infact an attitude of the heart. Not whether you had money to buy nice clothes, or wanted to wear jeans or a t-shirt, but to check your heart attitude when you put it on. Another words did you stay out partying Saturday night and just woke up and old jeans and a t-shirt was the first thing you could find to put on in order to get to church by the second song.

Posted By: Aaron | February 22, 2012 10:09 AM

@Mark: friend, perhaps we are both failing at expressing our views, because at some point you come across as wanting to impose your view. I cannot agree with you on "plenty of meat" very few have actually made a sold case regarding the teenager outfit. If you read my statement I am saying that the religion of Christ is indeed simplicity; however simplicity is not an automatic ruling out formal attire. Mind you I am in no sense advocating Hollywood Red Carpet dress... That is not simplicity. But by no means do i think that hobo-sheek is what we should wear. My point is NEITHER side can textually base their preference; it's a personal matter (agreed Geoff) that should be honestly approached and prayed about, regardless of what culture states which in our case means "youre a suit" if you formal it up, "you're ok" if you don't.
Tom: what an awesome story; that is Christ right there. Pastor saw the opportunity, and manifested grace, and I'm sure he even later taught her a lesson about what matters is the heart. Because that is what it's all about.
I think the problem is that we want cardiac manifestations to be all the same, even with our own fashion faux pas :)

Posted By: Anonymous | February 22, 2012 10:24 AM

Aaron, that I what I got from the article also, it's a call to check the heart when dressing for the worship occasion, that's it.

Posted By: Anonymous | February 22, 2012 10:29 AM

Harold, sorry if I came across as trying to impose my view, I'm just having fun in the discussion!

I think you feel you are missing the meat because you are looking for the meat to say something I (nor many other commenters) are trying to make it say. I am not saying the Bible advocates dressing down over dressing up(although if I had to choose I would say it LEANS a little more that way). What I, and many others, have been saying is that the Bible definitely does not advocate dressing up for church, which both this article as well as Liftin's at least hint at. Most of us grew up in church cultures where dressing up was most definitely thought of as the correct and Biblical thing to do. As we got older we realized there wasn't really support for that in Scriptures.

If you read my posts you'll see that I consistently say that it is a personal choice made in the freedom we have in Christ. If dressing up helps someone honor God, more power to them. If coming "as you are" helps someone honor God, more power to them. The issue comes when people start to prescribe particular behaviors or styles. We are probably closer together on this issue than it has seemed!=)

Posted By: Mark E. | February 22, 2012 11:32 AM

@Mark E. Sometimes "coming as you are" means dressing up. At least for some of us.

Posted By: AC | February 22, 2012 12:15 PM

Jesus made fun of formal dress, expensive clothing or dressing for religion. For the first century church sexually revealing, immodest clothing was discouraged as was the wearing of expensive suits, religious clothing or expensive hairdos. What did Jesus say about the greatest prophet who ever lived?

“What kind of man did you go into the wilderness to see? Was he a weak reed, swayed by every breath of wind? Or were you expecting to see a man dressed in expensive clothes? No, people with expensive clothes live in palaces.” Matt.11:7

“Everything they do is for show. On their arms they wear extra wide prayer boxes with Scripture verses inside, and they wear robes with extra long tassels.” Matt 23:5

“Jesus also taught: “Beware of these teachers of religious law! For they like to parade around in flowing robes and receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces.” Mark 12:38

“Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love respectful greetings in the market places” Luke 20:46

“And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearls or expensive clothes.” 1 Timothy 2:9

“And why worry about your clothing? Look at the lilies of the field and how they grow. They don’t work or make their clothing” Matt: 6:28

“Don’t take any money in your money belts—no gold, silver, or even copper coins. Don’t carry a traveler’s bag with a change of clothes and sandals or even a walking stick.” Matthew 10

Jesus was drawing a contrast between the well dressed, financially capable, impressive appearing Pharisees and His disciples who had no power or status of their own. The bar to salvation was intentionally lowered, they identified as a men of the people. This certainly was not a matter of practicality. It would have been more practical to carry an extra set of clean clothes and a money belt. These crude fishermen were instructed to heal the sick, raise the dead and preach the gospel wearing the trail-worn clothes on their backs that they had been wearing for days.

When in a meeting or preaching the gospel, you are not dressing up to impress God, you are dressing down to relate to people. In the end, The Bible’s final advice is don’t be concerned (worry) about clothes, don’t dress suggestively, don’t dress to impress God or man. After all the greatest prophet ever born preached publicly and met with Jesus wearing a stinky old camel skin. When poeople met with Jesus it was definitely “come as you are”.

Posted By: rickd | February 22, 2012 12:19 PM

AC, that is true, but I think what I meant was clear. My further explanation, would I think, bear that out.

Posted By: Mark E. | February 22, 2012 1:09 PM

@Mark E. Yes, you were clear. I just don't think it hurts to point out again that one cannot guess at someone's motives based on what they're wearing. Cheers.

Posted By: AC | February 22, 2012 1:50 PM

I would suggest that ministers who "dress down" to look edgy are doing it to impress...to say, "Look how cool and trendy I am!" Whatever we say, do, wear, we are to do it for God's glory. We need to step aside and let the light reflect the glory of God and not ourselves. In working in children's area at a church I no longer attend, I was told I needed to dress in an edgier way. Wear jeans and a t-shirt rather than my nice dress clothes. That way the parents would know we are "cool" and will want to bring their kids back. It was all about cool and trendy, and not at all about what I was comfortable wearing to church. So you see it works both ways. Some churches may tell me I am not doing right if I am not wearing a dress, but this church told me I was not doing it right because I wasn't wearing ripped jeans. Scripture tells us that whatever we do, we are to do it for God's glory and not man's. That is the plumb line I think we need to apply.

Posted By: Lily | February 22, 2012 2:00 PM

Lilly, I agree with your Sunday School department. We are not dressing to impress God, or to feel good about ourselves. The scriptural principal is that, especially as ministers, we dress in a way to provide no barriers to new comers, to identify with our audience and win them to Christ. You may have heard that as “edgier” or “cool” but it sounds like your staff is considering parents first. To consider others first is glorifying God.

Posted By: rickd | February 22, 2012 2:29 PM

Thought for the Day: “Though we travel the world over to find the beautiful, we must carry it with us or we find it not.” — Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posted By: Jess | February 23, 2012 8:38 AM

@rickd - do people who feel more comfortable dressing up have a place in a church that believes in dressing down to make people feel comfortable?

Posted By: AC | February 23, 2012 9:21 AM

This article is disturbing and heart breaking.

"The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."

I don't understand why we can't encourage one another to see people's faces and ignore what they're wearing. Instead, too often, Christians act as though it's just so inevitable that we will judge and be judged based on our outward appearance and so we should just learn how to navigate that morass of man-made judgmentalism. In other words, succumbing to the world's ways of doing and thinking.

And I'm sorry, with all due respect to the author.... fashion is a petty, materialistic, worldly thing to be spending much time considering at all, much less trying to make it into a godly discipline.

Is our goal not to be more and more like Christ? So, then, we should be learning to look past clothing, skin color and even personal hygiene to see the person.

All articles like these do is prop up the worldly system. You would have us train our minds to be conscious not only of what we're wearing but inevitably to be conscious of what everyone else is wearing and then to judge them for it.

Maybe I'm just unusual but most of the time I can honestly say I don't even notice what people are wearing. If you ask me to describe the clothing of a person I interacted with five minutes ago, I most likely wouldn't be able to tell you. If you ask me what they said, what their mood was, or the color of their eyes, that I could do. Because those are the things I'm focused on.

And isn't that what this is really all about, our focus? What does God focus on? Well, let's encourage one another to focus on that. Let's train our minds to think on things that are good and godly, not things that are petty and worldly.

Posted By: Tamara | February 23, 2012 11:50 AM

Tamara,

What I am communicating in this post is that we actually ought never to judge someone based upon what they are wearing. I want to suggest that we should honor God with every small corner of our life, including what we wear. Differences in clothing and skin color need not be ignored, but can be celebrated as reflecting the image of God, the same God who created people with different gifts and talents to compose the diverse body of the Kingdom. I agree completely that we should focus on what is good and Godly, but it isn't as easy as saying that clothing is 'petty and worldly' and leaving it at that. If it is petty and worldly, why pay attention to it at all? Why get dressed?

Posted By: Laura Ortberg Turner | February 23, 2012 11:59 AM

It pains me (and likely the Holy One) that we worry about such trifles. Whatever "Consider the lilies. . ." meant it did not want us worrying about what you wear to church.

Thank you for disagreeing with Dr. Liftin. He's wrong.

God looks on our heart, and I think he prefers it naked and bare before him, humble.

Posted By: Melody H Hanson (@melodyhhanson) | February 23, 2012 12:19 PM

"What I am communicating in this post is that we actually ought never to judge someone based upon what they are wearing. "

Laura,
With respect, that is not what you are communicating. That may be what you intended to communicate but your intent must have gotten lost in what you actually wrote.

"I want to suggest that we should honor God with every small corner of our life, including what we wear."

But you fail to mention, or perhaps admit, that the only instructions God has given us with regard to honoring Him with our clothing is that we be modest and not showy.

Scripture is really clear that God doesn't care what we're wearing. He doesn't look at our clothes.

What it really boils down to, IMHO, is wanting other people to see us as honoring God. It is other people, not God, who look at our clothes and judge. It is other people, not God, who will determine whether they think our clothes honor God or not. God is honored when our hearts are right and when we love others.

"Differences in clothing and skin color need not be ignored, but can be celebrated as reflecting the image of God, the same God who created people with different gifts and talents to compose the diverse body of the Kingdom."

God didn't create clothes in His image. In fact, humans who were created in His image were created without them.

I don't recall "clothing designer" being listed among the gifts the Holy Spirit distributes for the edification of all believers, either.

I'm happy to celebrate diversity and that's a wonderful goal. But, honestly, what I read in your article was the opposite of that. What we wear does not help move us closer to God. There's really no Scriptural defense for such a statement.

" I agree completely that we should focus on what is good and Godly, but it isn't as easy as saying that clothing is 'petty and worldly' and leaving it at that. If it is petty and worldly, why pay attention to it at all? Why get dressed?"

Well, I get dressed mostly because it's too cold to go without. ;)

But I think you're really stretching here. We all know that out in the world people are going to judge us based on how we look. As a lawyer, I know and am supremely aware that my clothing can win or lose a case for me.

And that's my point, and it's what God said to Samuel... it's mankind who judges based on appearances, not God. It's part and parcel to the worldly system. The system that classes people, labels them and ostracizes them. Rich vs. Poor, Jew vs. Gentile, slave vs. free, male vs. female. Clothing has always been a way of reinforcing caste systems. Because it is fallen human nature to judge people based on how they look and what they're wearing.

IMHO, the Church should be a haven from such things. As we grow in maturity in Christ, the outward appearance should matter less and less. And if, God forbid, we ever do run across someone who is naked we won't say "oh my, they're not honoring God with their clothing" we'll say "take my shirt, you must be cold."

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong about wanting to wear clothing that is pleasing to the eye and/or expresses one's personality (although this is a a highly subjective social construct). But to make it some sort of imperative for Christians - to suggest that what we wear can actually make us closer to or farther from God..... well, that's just taking things entirely too far.

You like fashion. Cool. I'm sure that God can be glorified in your life through your pursuit of that creative talent. But it really and truly is NOT important what people wear to church. Your personal preferences are yours. It's alarming that you feel the need to try to make everyone else care about your hobby and call it a spiritual exercise.

Posted By: Tamara | February 23, 2012 3:48 PM

Tamara, no wonder you are an attorney! Very well spoken! I couldn't agree more that our fellowships, our meetings ought to be a haven from these caste systems. The Bible's only instruction is to dress modestly in religious settings, don't try to impress God or others or expend much money and worry on the status aspects of clothing. Great comments!!

Posted By: rickd | February 23, 2012 4:54 PM

I might add that within those scriptural guidelines, in societies with enough income and diversity of styles avaiable, dress today is about self-expression. As long as we are not wearing sexually revealing clothing, as long as we are not devoting too much money to clothing or using it to impress others or impress God, as long as we avoid religious status clothing (collars, robes, stoles, expensive suits, etc) there is plenty of room for joyful self expression in color, style, fabric etc. As long as there is no dress code for meetings, ties and suits are welcome, dresses are welcome, bare feet and wing tips, high heels and flip flops, bare foot and boots, dashikis, kilts to ripped jeans, the more diverse the better!

Posted By: rickd | February 23, 2012 6:21 PM

rickd, you've inspired me. Next Sunday I'm going to wear my ripped jeans under my kilt.

Tim

Posted By: Tim | February 23, 2012 6:42 PM

I really have a hard time taking this seriously as an issue when most of the world's population, including probably most of it's Christian population, don't own nearly enough clothes to get them through a week without re-running something, much less consistently make some kind of statement to the world with it. God looks on the heart. Can clothing be misused? Sure. But when that is the case it's only a symptom of something deeper, and treating it like the cause isn't going to help.

Posted By: John | February 24, 2012 6:12 PM

The Church is the people, not a place. When I attend services, I tend to dress casually, as I worship with many people who do not have the income to dress up. I see no reason to create socioeconomic distance using my attire, and that's what it would be.

Posted By: Michelle | February 24, 2012 6:50 PM

If someone else raised this already, my apologies. I am a Pastor's wife in a very socio-economically diverse church. This translates into Doctor's sitting in church next to the homeless. I have not been in a Sunday School class in the past 2 years that did not have at least 3 homeless families in it. What this has meant for me and my family is that while we dress neat and clean, we intentionally dress down.

Posted By: beth | February 25, 2012 11:23 PM

This discussion is interesting because we are in a time where dourness in dress is fashionable. I'm thinking of the idea that navy blue and black go together, or black and chocolate brown.

What happened to wearing colors? When commenters write about wearing jeans and a sweater, I can't help picturing a sweater that is black, navy or a neutral. It's too bad we do not celebrate all the colors God made.

I'm in a large church where you can see everything from fancy matched hats and dresses to jeans with sweaters--mostly people wear something in between the extremes. But there is a lot of black being worn, and a lot of navy and deep brown--and I can't help thinking that our culture celebrates dourness in appearance, if not outright ugliness.

I know it's risky to assume from this that we are dour on the inside, but I can't help thinking that.

Posted By: Laura | February 29, 2012 5:18 PM

Oh, good grief. As a pastor, I've worked in 'casual' churches where I wore street clothes and also in churches where I wear a robe. (A benefit of the robe is that it is plain and solves the Sunday-morning fashion debate; and doubly so during pregnancy). In my churches, some folks are manual laborers who look forward to an opportunity to wear a suit and rest from those labors; others are just trying to get the kids through the door in anything that doesn't cause a tantrum. I will take them all! I'm just glad to have people there, setting aside the question of what to wear and exhibiting some actual care for one another, and finding the opportunity to be nurtured by God in the midst of our difficult and busy lives.

Posted By: RevMama | March 3, 2012 12:53 AM

Ah, yes, and perhaps greater food for thought is that Jesus surrounded himself with fishermen and shepherds, two classes of people known for their workaday stench and social isolation from others, whether at the synagogue or elsewhere in the community. It occurs to me while reading the quotes from Paul that Paul may have spent his time primarily with people of a different socioeconomic status. Not too many shepherds decking out in gold ornaments, after all...

Posted By: RevMama | March 3, 2012 1:21 AM

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